Escaping to the countryside?

The One Doctor

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've never owned a car so I don't think it would suit me :pac:
How do your kids go and play with other kids in the area though? We used to just go out on the streets and play kerbs and squares etc.

There's a community playground 500 metres away.

Patty Hearst

Anyone watch Tonight on tv3 last night?

Anyone looking to move to the country may have to rethink their plans

Apparently Matt Cooper said last night that unless you're a Farmer you've no right to live in a rural area

meeeeh

I saw a fox twice this morning while running. And it was a big one too. That kind of stuff gets me in good mood.

Thelonious Monk

meeeeh wrote: »

I saw a fox twice this morning while running. And it was a big one too. That kind of stuff gets me in good mood.

I always see them at night in Dublin 5. Love them.

Sleepy

Galway_guy_33 wrote: »

Care to expand on this "pay their way." comment...

I live in a remote location through my own choice of course and happily pay for the following and dont expect it laid on for me either...

* Initial installation and Maintenance of a deep bore water well and associated water treatment unit for all my water needs.

* Initial installation and Maintenance of my waste water treatment unit.

* Paid to bring ESB & Telephone lines to my location.

* Initial installation & Maintenance of a underground GEO thermal ground collector for all my heating needs, as you would expect natural gas pipe line is not passing by my door.

I happily pay for the above and knew it from day one when designing my house, I most certainly would consider "I pay my way"....

And? Would you expect it to be otherwise?

Every urban dweller has paid for their connections to these grids as part of the cost of their home (the developer originally paying for connections to services, this forming part of the cost of the house when new and that value forming part of any second hand purchase in the same fashion that the investment you've made in your property's connections would form part of the sale price of your home were you to sell it on now).

A key difference would be the ongoing maintenance costs of electric and telephone connections would be far, far lower per house in the urban areas (simple economies of scale when more properties are connected to the same length of power /telephone line).

The urban / rural wealth transfers can be most easily seen in our local government. Most Councils outside of the major urban centres would have been bankrupt decades ago if not for their subvention by urbanites.

Rural areas are also massively over-represented politically. A county councilor in Laois or Leitrim will be representing a much, much lower number of citizens than their equivalent in Fingal or Cork City. Not only does this mean the cost of the councillors activities per citizen is much higher in a rural council, it also means the rural dweller enjoys more access to (and representation by) their local government representatives than those in the urban areas (who are subsidisng the costs of that representation via the subvention of the rural councils!).

Another obvious example of urbanites subsidising rural dwellers (and of this over-representation in politics) would be the choice of property value rather than land area, floor space as the basis for our property taxes when most economists were advising the latter (or a hybrid approach).

Almost all public servants living outside the urban centres are overpaid. Were salary levels being negotiated locally, there's no way a teacher, garda or nurse would earn the same salary in a rural location as they'd earn in an urban one (their unions obviously basing their pay claims on urban costs of living).

With their more disperse locations, the costs of providing emergency services to rural dwellers are far higher than the per capita cost of providing them in urban areas.

Even when we get to such things as public transport (which admittedly can be poor to non existant in rural Ireland) but where it exists and in the forms it exists, the highest loss making routes for CIE are almost all rural ones, the losses from these routes then have to be recouped from the profitable urban routes resulting in rural dwellers getting better services than they're paying for while urbanites get worse services than they're paying for.

Rural dwellers are quick to point to public investment in urban areas when things like Metro North, the Luas etc. as evidence that "them baxtards in Dublin get everything while we get nothing", conveniently ignoring that such projects pay for themselves over time and serve such dense populations that the cost per citizen for them is actually quite low.

In short: public expenditure in Rural Ireland is higher than public revenues (taxation) from Rural Ireland. The shortfall is paid for by (sub)urban dwellers who pay more in tax than they receive in services and capital investment.

meeeeh

Sleepy wrote: »

And? Would you expect it to be otherwise?

Don't be snotty, you suggested rural dwellers expect everything done for them which was completely ridiculous. Also bit rich consdering the show of urban entitlement that was water charges protest.

As for other claims, I have no idea how accurate they are but if you value people just by financial contributions you might need ti kill off pensioners and those on welfare.

Edit: and just to add if urban dwellers wouldn't oppose to any development that affects their low density urban way of life then less people would need to live in rural areas.

topper75

Patty Hearst wrote: »

Apparently Matt Cooper said last night that unless you're a Farmer you've no right to live in a rural area

Before scheduled TV finally dies, expect it to strike out in extreme fashion like a cornered rat. It'll get more and more outlandish before its final death scream.

nice_guy80

Sleepy wrote: »

And? Would you expect it to be otherwise?

Every urban dweller has paid for their connections to these grids as part of the cost of their home (the developer originally paying for connections to services, this forming part of the cost of the house when new and that value forming part of any second hand purchase in the same fashion that the investment you've made in your property's connections would form part of the sale price of your home were you to sell it on now).

A key difference would be the ongoing maintenance costs of electric and telephone connections would be far, far lower per house in the urban areas (simple economies of scale when more properties are connected to the same length of power /telephone line).

The urban / rural wealth transfers can be most easily seen in our local government. Most Councils outside of the major urban centres would have been bankrupt decades ago if not for their subvention by urbanites.

Rural areas are also massively over-represented politically. A county councilor in Laois or Leitrim will be representing a much, much lower number of citizens than their equivalent in Fingal or Cork City. Not only does this mean the cost of the councillors activities per citizen is much higher in a rural council, it also means the rural dweller enjoys more access to (and representation by) their local government representatives than those in the urban areas (who are subsidisng the costs of that representation via the subvention of the rural councils!).

Another obvious example of urbanites subsidising rural dwellers (and of this over-representation in politics) would be the choice of property value rather than land area, floor space as the basis for our property taxes when most economists were advising the latter (or a hybrid approach).

Almost all public servants living outside the urban centres are overpaid. Were salary levels being negotiated locally, there's no way a teacher, garda or nurse would earn the same salary in a rural location as they'd earn in an urban one (their unions obviously basing their pay claims on urban costs of living).

With their more disperse locations, the costs of providing emergency services to rural dwellers are far higher than the per capita cost of providing them in urban areas.

Even when we get to such things as public transport (which admittedly can be poor to non existant in rural Ireland) but where it exists and in the forms it exists, the highest loss making routes for CIE are almost all rural ones, the losses from these routes then have to be recouped from the profitable urban routes resulting in rural dwellers getting better services than they're paying for while urbanites get worse services than they're paying for.

Rural dwellers are quick to point to public investment in urban areas when things like Metro North, the Luas etc. as evidence that "them baxtards in Dublin get everything while we get nothing", conveniently ignoring that such projects pay for themselves over time and serve such dense populations that the cost per citizen for them is actually quite low.

In short: public expenditure in Rural Ireland is higher than public revenues (taxation) from Rural Ireland. The shortfall is paid for by (sub)urban dwellers who pay more in tax than they receive in services and capital investment.

You could say the same for health system
Very little in rural Ireland, hospitals are in urban areas
Same for public transport
Third Level

All paid for by taxes of rural dwellers without getting any of the direct benefit on their doorstep

Thelonious Monk

nice_guy80 wrote: »

You could say the same for health system
Very little in rural Ireland, hospitals are in urban areas
Same for public transport
Third Level

All paid for by taxes of rural dwellers without getting any of the direct benefit on their doorstep

So where should the hospitals actually be, if not in the most densely populated areas? Do you want one on every boreen in Ireland?
Dublin brings in more tax money than the rest of the country anyway.

wakka12

Deleted User wrote: »

Dublin is crawling with tracksuit clad scumbags. What is that all about. I don't see the same thing in other cities.

Then you havnt looked around, like at all. What other cities are you talking about? Dublin isnt crawling with handsy prostitutes at every street corner after dusk like barcelona, just one example . But yeh grass is always greener and all that..Im always so shocked by all the deluded adults on here who think Dublin is the worst place on earth , yee dont know a thing about the real world and have lived an incredibly sheltered life if you think anything of the sorts

Thelonious Monk

wakka12 wrote: »

Then you havnt looked around, like at all. What other cities are you talking about? Dublin isnt crawling with handsy prostitutes at every street corner after dusk like barcelona, just one example . But yeh grass is always greener and all that..Im always so shocked by all the deluded adults on here who think Dublin is the worst place on earth , yee dont know a thing about the real world and have lived an incredibly sheltered life if you think anything of the sorts

In fairness the tracksuit thing is unique to Ireland and UK really. I can never get my head around it, fully grown men in those teletubby grey tracksuit tops and bottoms doing their grocery shopping etc.

wakka12

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

In fairness the tracksuit thing is unique to Ireland and UK really. I can never get my head around it, fully grown men in those teletubby grey tracksuit tops and bottoms doing their grocery shopping etc.

I agree that its unique to Ireland and UK but I dont see how its necessarily worse than gypsies in paris trying to scam you on every street corner or menacing african gangs or middle eastern drug dealers on every street of the gothic quarter in barcelona offering you any drug under the sun, every city has its problems. Dublin's zombies and trackies are really quite a minor inconvenicence at worst in the grand scheme of things

They give parts of the city an unkempt and seedy feeling, yeh. But theyre pretty harmless, Ive never had trouble with them, even though Ill always try avoid them as best as I can if I see them

meeeeh

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

In fairness the tracksuit thing is unique to Ireland and UK really. I can never get my head around it, fully grown men in those teletubby grey tracksuit tops and bottoms doing their grocery shopping etc.

Tracksuits are not even remotely unique to Ireland and UK. They are everywhere.

Jamsiek

meeeeh wrote: »

Tracksuits are not even remotely unique to Ireland and UK. They are everywhere.

Where else have you seen it?
I seriously can't think of anywhere else where grown adults dress like this

worded

meeeeh wrote: »

Tracksuits are not even remotely unique to Ireland and UK. They are everywhere.

Some lost American tourists in Dublin were over heard saying “let’s go over there and ask the athletes”

We just have more athletes that is usual for a capital Citi

Thelonious Monk

worded wrote: »

Some lost American tourists in Dublin were over heard saying “let’s go over there and ask the athletes”

We just have more athletes that is usual for a capital Citi

Probably an urban myth but I love that story. If you got off a train at Connolly you might also think you were either at a war veteran convention with the amount of people on crutches and in wheelchairs from the meth clinic.

meeeeh

Hate to break it to yee but sportswear is one of the main trends in fashion for years now. It landed Virgil Abloh (brand off white) top position for men's collection in Vuitton. Anyway even without that they are very popular among three groups, people who don't care what they wear, people who wrar only certain clothing and those who are slightly too friendly with local mafia. .

Thelonious Monk

meeeeh wrote: »

Hate to break it to yee but sportswear is one of the main trends in fashion for years now. It landed Virgil Abloh (brand off white) top position for men's collection in Vuitton. Anyway even without that they are very popular among three groups, people who don't care what they wear, people who wrar only certain clothing and those who are slightly too friendly with local mafia. .

It isn't. Walk around any European city and you don't see it. You just don't. I mean maybe black youths in some hip hop tracksuit garb in Paris or something but not 40 year old white people doing their shopping like you see here.

freshpopcorn

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It isn't. Walk around any European city and you don't see it. You just don't. I mean maybe black youths in some hip hop tracksuit garb in Paris or something but not 40 year old white people doing their shopping like you see here.

What's the problem with it tough if you behave yourself.
We're always being taught all this stuff about not to judge people by their appearance/what they are wearing/etc.
I know in my local town you can meet the local unemployed person, principal, Gardai, Nurse, lecturer, etc out shopping in their tracksuit. It's not the end of the world.

Thelonious Monk

freshpopcorn wrote: »

What's the problem with it tough if you behave yourself.
We're always being taught all this stuff about not to judge people by their appearance/what they are wearing/etc.
I know in my local town you can meet the local unemployed person, principal, Gardai, Nurse, lecturer, etc out shopping in their tracksuit. It's not the end of the world.

I know it's not the end of the world, I just think it looks ridiculous, and lazy. I'm sure you're not too keen on some fashions yourself.

bodhrandude

Sleepy

nice_guy80 wrote: »

You could say the same for health system
Very little in rural Ireland, hospitals are in urban areas
Same for public transport
Third Level

All paid for by taxes of rural dwellers without getting any of the direct benefit on their doorstep

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Are you looking for an increase in the subsidisation of rural dwellers in order to fund hospitals in areas of low population density? :eek:

Antares35

Grew up (well from early teens) outside Dublin and in a rural location and even now, 20 years on, I never tire of the novelty. When I first moved there I thought the locals were insular and odd, and was particularly amused by our little old, religious neighbour referring to the "Sunday wh*res" as she picked up day-tripper litter on a Sunday evening Although I work in the city, I don't mind the commute because I love being able to come home to peace and quiet. If it wasn't for work, I'd go "proper country" in a heartbeat and take myself down the west of Ireland

J Mysterio

Sleepy wrote: »

In short: public expenditure in Rural Ireland is higher than public revenues (taxation) from Rural Ireland. The shortfall is paid for by (sub)urban dwellers who pay more in tax than they receive in services and capital investment.

There is more people in urban areas = urban areas paying more in tax.

Individuals pay the same tax. If I live in the arse end of nowhere, I still pay the same tax but have no services and see no local investment. Stands to reason doesn't it?

People in urban areas do have more services and there is higher investment.

But this isn't just urban V rural.

Limerick, Waterford etc. should see further investment to realise their potential. Something like a Luas in Limerick (UL/ Castletroy - City - Dooradoyle/ Raheen - Hospital) would transform the city. That is highly unlikely though.

Waterford should have cardiac care.

Woke Hogan

I’m still completely baffled as to why anyone would actually like living in Dublin. Men in their 50s in soccer jerseys, faded forearm tattoos, the famous Dublin wit which consists of answering every question with “ask me bollix,” feral dirty faced children hurling abuse and rocks at fire engines and buses, the lionisation of ignorance and anti intellectualism, a bizarre fascination with postcodes and obscure suburbs, hijacking the term “working class” as if it only applies to themselves in Ireland.

I hate Dublin and everything about it.

J Mysterio

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I’m still completely baffled as to why anyone would actually like living in Dublin. Men in their 50s in soccer jerseys, faded forearm tattoos, the famous Dublin wit which consists of answering every question with “ask me bollix,” feral dirty faced children hurling abuse and rocks at fire engines and buses, the lionisation of ignorance and anti intellectualism, a bizarre fascination with postcodes and obscure suburbs, hijacking the term “working class” as if it only applies to themselves in Ireland.

I hate Dublin and everything about it.

lol

Thelonious Monk

Woke Hogan wrote: »

I’m still completely baffled as to why anyone would actually like living in Dublin. Men in their 50s in soccer jerseys, faded forearm tattoos, the famous Dublin wit which consists of answering every question with “ask me bollix,” feral dirty faced children hurling abuse and rocks at fire engines and buses, the lionisation of ignorance and anti intellectualism, a bizarre fascination with postcodes and obscure suburbs, hijacking the term “working class” as if it only applies to themselves in Ireland.

I hate Dublin and everything about it.

I bet you wont tell us where you're from though will you?

Woke Hogan

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I bet you wont tell us where you're from though will you?

No I won't. I will tell you I'm not from a city that has more feral children running around it unsupervised than Bucharest in the 90s.

CelticRambler

I moved to the French countryside so that my children could be as feral as they liked. Didn't seem to do them (or the neighbours) any harm. :P

Thelonious Monk

Woke Hogan wrote: »

No I won't. I will tell you I'm not from a city that has more feral children running around it unsupervised than Bucharest in the 90s.

So you can give it but you can't take it. What a man.