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Refusal of silencer

  • 15-05-2019 12:31pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7 shligoboyzz


    just wondering what I can do applied for my rifle and and also applied for silencer. the guard then rang me to say the silencer application was refused. he's explanation for it was that I could only get one if I had a hearing condition and that they were not giving them out, but I provided good reasons for having one just looking for advice on what I can do. thanks


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ solarwinds


    Ask them for the refusal in writing stating that ridiculous reason. Then explain you will be appealing and have no issue going further if need be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭ Richard308


    It seems to be a recent trend here in Killarney. Despite evidence of good reason.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    A suppressor is classed as a firearm and any refusal must be in writing.

    So as per the advice above demand the refusal in writing and if the refusal is because "they don't give them out" instead of an actual legal reason then you have a case for appeal. Also no harm to use the Commissioners guidelines. We always say they are only guidelines and as a Garda said to me recently "funny how ye quote the Commissioner's Guidelines when it suits ye, but ignore them as guidelines when they don't" however they are there, and updated, to accommodate the smooth implementation of the firearms not to mention they based on actual law which states that a refusal must be given.
    REFUSALS - REASONED DECISIONS

    Where an application is refused, the issuing person shall inform the applicant in writing of the refusal and the reason(s) for it. In recent years, the Courts have consistently stressed the importance of an issuing superintendent or chief superintendent to clearly provide a refused applicant with a REASONED decision for a refusal, thus affording the person the opportunity to challenge the decision by way of appeal to the District Court.

    In simple terms, a refused applicant should be left in no doubt as to why his/her application has been refused and a mere recital of the legislation in the refusal letter is not deemed sufficient. A refused person should also be informed of his/her right, within 30 days of receipt of the refusal letter, to appeal the decision to refuse to the District Court.

    Issuing persons making a decision should have cognisance of the decision making model which aims to provide a decision making process to enable decision makers to determine, explain, and justify the reasons for their actions. Decision making must comply with the fundamental principles of legality, necessity, proportionality and accountability and be applied in a non-discriminatory manner

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 7 shligoboyzz


    thanks I will go to the station tomorrow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭ Hotshot123


    thanks I will go to the station tomorrow.

    First thing is, the suppressor won't make your gun silent so it's not like you won't be detected if you are out shooting.
    Tell them it's a safety issue to have one as its better for your long term hearing and also if you wear ear protection you possibly won't hear what's going on in your environment and could make it unsafe for others in your area.
    There could be people out walking or a bark of a dog could be missed due to you having to protect your self.
    They are being granted all over the country.
    Get in writing if refused and appoint a solicitor if needed


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  • Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭ The pigeon man


    It's a bit of a logical fallacy from the Garda's point of view. You need to have a hearing condition now to get it but not having a moderator will soon give you a very bad hearing condition.

    So he expects you to damage your hearing for three years then get the moderator on renewal when you're hearing is destroyed?

    Contact a solicitor and appeal this. I'm sorry to hear you have to go through such red tape to have a safety device fitted to your firearm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 shligoboyzz


    thanks for the replies. it was about two weeks ago that he rang me and I was kinda unsure what to do until I read some threads. its not to late to get a refusal letter yet is it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ solarwinds


    thanks for the replies. it was about two weeks ago that he rang me and I was kinda unsure what to do until I read some threads. its not to late to get a refusal letter yet is it.


    Too late, no, but id be surprised if they will give you one.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭✭ rugerfanatic




  • Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭ badshot


    when i was looking for a license for the 308
    guard rang me and asked was i going to put a scope on the rifle
    when i told him i was
    he said the scope would make the rifle more dangerous
    how do you talk to someone like that


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    badshot wrote: »
    when i was looking for a license for the 308
    guard rang me and asked was i going to put a scope on the rifle
    when i told him i was
    he said the scope would make the rifle more dangerous
    how do you talk to someone like that


    It would make you wonder what sort of training happens in Templemore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 764 ✭✭✭ hedzball


    badshot wrote: »
    when i was looking for a license for the 308
    guard rang me and asked was i going to put a scope on the rifle
    when i told him i was
    he said the scope would make the rifle more dangerous
    how do you talk to someone like that



    Lad in our club got an air rifle with 50rnds max on his license. Told the guard they're a tub of a few hundred and was told to "shop around for 50 tins "... whole lot should be set out to a private body who employ people who understand and acknowledge the firearms here.

    'Hdz


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie


    hedzball wrote: »
    Lad in our club got an air rifle with 50rnds max on his license. Told the guard they're a tub of a few hundred and was told to "shop around for 50 tins "... whole lot should be set out to a private body who employ people who understand and acknowledge the firearms here.

    'Hdz

    Why should it have to be a private body ?

    Privatisation has a very mixed track record and it would require substantial amendments to the current firearms legislation if not a complete rewrite with a strong possibility of increased cost to us and let's not forget the law of unintended consequences.

    As it it stands now is very workable and with some additional training and a more uniform application of legislation and guidelines across the districts significant improvements could be made quickly at no additional cost.

    If you would set up a separate private body you will create an entity with a sole purpose that could very well embark upon dreaming up more of all sorts of weird and wonderful hoops to jump through simply to justify it's existence and look good in the media and so on. The ones on the receiving end will be us.

    As it stands now the average law abiding sports shooter is pretty low on the Gardai's list of priorities and that's not always a bad thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    It would make you wonder what sort of training happens in Templemore.

    And that's probably the worst of our issues when it comes to getting something approved or refused.

    A bit more training and familiarisation would probably do no harm and the very basics could probably be easily dealt with in a day or two.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Not if it is constrained properly by law,with the same sanctions facing those in charge in the courts. You provide the paperwork and good reasons for wanting XYZ.If it is within the legal parameters of you owning it ,and legal to posses...What difference does it make if it is a civillian body or a police body that issues it? It no doubt will still have AGS final say in the figure of a CSuper,and if he refuses it,well see ya in the Dist court.. All it is doing is streamlinging a process and getting more uniforms out on the beat,and not stuck doing clerical work.
    Thing is,I cant see it happen because;
    Reluctance of AGS to change much on such things.If even the Garda tuck shop in Templemore is staffed by uniformed Gardai...
    Change in legislation...If it aint broke dont fix it,but it certainly could do with some maintence...:p

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    Not if it is constrained properly by law,with the same sanctions facing those in charge in the courts.

    Change in legislation...If it aint broke dont fix it,but it certainly could do with some maintence...:p


    Outsourcing this stuff to the private sector is risky because it would require tinkering with the laws.

    And 99% of the time we lose something when they go tinkering with the laws.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,450 ✭✭✭ Vizzy


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    All it is doing is streamlinging a process and getting more uniforms out on the beat,and not stuck doing clerical work.
    Thing is,I cant see it happen because;
    Reluctance of AGS to change much on such things.If even the Garda tuck shop in Templemore is staffed by uniformed Gardai...
    Change in legislation...If it aint broke dont fix it,but it certainly could do with some maintence...:p

    In my local station they now have a civilian dealing with all applications. He is not there all that long but it has streamlined the application/renewal process enormously.
    He is also "on the front desk" from 9 to 5, so there is no more "when is the Garda who deals with firearms on duty ?"

    This is also a station where the Super is after tightening up big time on the licencing of guns.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭ Richard308


    1 To aid sound reduction of the firearm when used around livestock and bloodstock.
    2 To aid sound reduction so as to not alarm people in the vicinity.
    3 Unsafe practice of wearing suitable hearing protection while stalking / hunting
    4 Protection of personal hearing
    5 Improved accuracy therefore aiding with the humane dispatch of prey due to reduced recoil etc
    6 Ideal for vermin control.


    Re: Section 4.1 - I request the maximum rounds of ammunition on my license be increased to (insert amount) for the following reasons:

    1 Empty (fired) casings are treated the same as live rounds as per the Firearms Act, 1925 where it states that "ammunition for a firearm is any ingredient or component part of any such ammunition", with component part being the bullet, the casing, the propellant or the primer. So my license must allow me to have a high enough limit to have both live and fired rounds in my possession.
    2 I regularly take part in target competitions and actively attend target ranges for practice. As a result of this I can go through a large quantity of rounds in a short period of time.
    3 Buying bulk rounds of ammunition to reduce trips to dealer and for cost implications.
    4 Distance to dealer being excessive & inconvenient.

    For these reasons I hope you can grant my request to increase the limit of ammunition to allow me to stay within the conditions of my licence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,104 ✭✭✭✭ Nekarsulm


    I am working with a person who has transferred out of the Gardai/Clerical Officer position after years of working there.
    They were dealing with all the applications for restricted firearms in the two county Garda area.
    According to them, there remains a real "them and us" culture in stations.
    On the other hand it seems Drew Harris is keen to get more civilians in and Gardai back on the streets.
    One local female Garda has been office based for over 20 years, and isn't looking forward to breaking up fights at 2am outside the local night club .....


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Nekarsulm wrote: »
    I am working with a person who has transferred out of the Gardai/Clerical Officer position after years of working there.
    They were dealing with all the applications for restricted firearms in the two county Garda area.
    According to them, there remains a real "them and us" culture in stations.
    On the other hand it seems Drew Harris is keen to get more civilians in and Gardai back on the streets.
    One local female Garda has been office based for over 20 years, and isn't looking forward to breaking up fights at 2am outside the local night club .....

    Kind of endemic with police forces globally that attitude.
    Tough for that ban garda..You took the oath to "protect&serve" without fear or favour,you have the badge and the power conferred on you to uphold the law and keep the peace....So get on with it,or quit.

    TIP,as any LEO either military or civil wil tell you.You let them batter each other senseless in a situation like that first.THEN you go and subdue and arrest and cuff them when all the fight is out of them.:)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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