Drama at work with the boss

Pineapple1

Hi all. So a couple of weeks ago I posted about my boss giving me hassle which I felt uneccessary. It all came to a head on Monday. My boss ended up being so on my case that day and constantly getting very irate and heated with me when I would ask a simple question just to clarify something. She then followed me into a corner and started letting rip into me firing all sorts of accusations at me. I could feel the tears coming and tried my best not to cry but I just couldnt. The tears started streaming and I told her to leave me alone. The only thing she could say to me in reply was "you can't speak to your manager like that". I was appalled, all she cared about was her ego at that moment and could not even take a simple instuction to leave a woman alone when she is upset. Just before I went home, we had a meeting in the office about what had happened. Her argument is that "I have changed and not doing things in which I have been trained properly to do". My defense was "For the last year I have been in this job, I had been doing a brilliant job at everything according to you until the last few weeks where you are accusing me of doing things I have always been doing right, wrong which is not true. You have turned into a micromanaging lunatic I am afraid to do any job now in case I am magically doing it wrong now all of a sudden". The argument turned very heated, I told the boss a lot of what I thought of her and gave examples of times when I asked for help with tasks and was fobbed off. The boss blatantly denied this. She also denied it when I told her she is always shouting at me in front of customers. I said why would I say these things happened if they did not happen? The meeting ended very badly, I had already decided in my head I am going to have to change jobs as I cannot abide bullies like that no mattter how much I like my job. I have to work with her again next Tuesday and then my 12 month probation meeting is after work that day. I am already planning on handing my notice in at that meeting, but I feel so sick at the thoughts of working with her again on Tuesday. A bit of support and advice is what I am looking for I suppose. Thanks

howdido

Hand your notice in, life's too short.

Pineapple1

howdido: Completely agree, just cannot fathom how some people are in management positions when they have all the empathy of a rock.

howdido

Its not fair but these things happen, your current manager will be found out sooner or later but the best thing you can do is get out of there.

B0jangles

Write down what you want to say in bullet point format.

Do not let her/anyone wind you up or send you off on irrelevant tangents in the meeting. Is it a one-on-one with her or will there be a third party there? If there isn't, is there someone you can request sit in on the meeting?

You want to clearly and straightforwardly say, and in front of a witness, that you are handing in your notice because your working environment has become hostile.

Make it clear that you have not changed - you are continuing to perform your role in the same way that was deemed 'brilliant' until a few weeks ago.

That your manager is now making it impossible for you to perform your job to the best of your ability any more.

Stay Calm

Greyhound79

I've been working full time since I was 18 years of age. It took me a long time to realise that a work company owes you nothing. They will replace you in the drop of a hat. Look after No.1. Yourself. No job is ever worth getting stressed or worried over. Your physical and mental health is the most important thing to protect and take care of.
Is there a HR route that you can go down to report the bullying tactics of your manager? There is no right for you to suffer alone and if this issue is not raised, who is to say that your manager will not/is not bullying someone else.

Are you looking for new work at the minute? If not, I would suggest start looking now and hopefully something will be offered to you. If you're lucky enough to get a new job immediately, why wait until your probationary meeting. Just hand in your resignation and go.
Good luck

dougm1970

is it your manager or owner of the company ?
could you go above her...take this to an area manager or director ?
also...something seems fishy about the timing, getting so close to end of your years probation...i seen something similar before when a manager was trying to get a relative into a position with a company.

also, two sides to every story..but as much as written text can sound, you do sound very genuine.

the poster who said lifes too short and leave, i am off that mindset too...we only have one life here.
but others would argue that running away from bullies is not the way to deal with it and you'll always be running away from awkward confrontations.

lifes a bit **** out there sometimes...its the hand we're dealt....keep us updated on what you do.

Is it an option to take a days sick leave next Tuesday? ie, call in sick on Tuesday morning. At least you won’t have to stress out about that over the next few days.

Then attend the review meeting the next day? And have planned what you want to say the next day, and perhaps just have it in writing?

If you feel you have been treated unfairly or inappropriately you have a right to raise that at the meeting. Then the company has to respond.

What do you expect will be the outcome of the review meeting? Do you think the boss may have had time to review her behavior and be a bit repentant?

Good luck with things, please try not to worry too much, it’s never worth it. Above all, take care of yourself, focus in on how good you are and all the wonderful things you do.

Pineapple1

Mya Angry Vow: I am currently in the middle of college exams so Tuesday is the only day I work next week. I had planned on working full time for the summer in this place. I do not want to work with this lunatic any longer. I have a feeling that I will be let go by the manager, but I have decided am leaving anyways as my head was suffering for the last few weeks thinking nonstop about tensions between myself and the boss. I was so happy when I got this job last May.

Pineapple1

Pineapple1 wrote: »

Mya Angry Vow: I am currently in the middle of college exams so Tuesday is the only day I work next week. I had planned on working full time for the summer in this place. I do not want to work with this lunatic any longer. I have a feeling that I will be let go by the manager, but I have decided am leaving anyways as my head was suffering for the last few weeks thinking nonstop about tensions between myself and the boss. I was so happy when I got this job last May.

Thanks Pineapple. If you can afford it, I’d hand in my notice asap. You don’t need the stress especially as you are in the middle of your exams. Screw the job, you’ll get another and you leave on your terms not theirs. Shame on them. By handing in your notice it will also make them think and they might apologize to you, but if you think it’s might be curtains anyways, it’s best to leave on your terms, not theirs.

Take care and in some small way, treat yourself today, you deserve it after what you’ve been through.

OMM 0000

This is why it is very important to manage your relationship with your boss.

In your jobs going forward, make "managing my relationship with my boss" one of your daily tasks.

It greatly reduces the risk of this sort of situation from happening.

Making an effort to do a good job + friendly relationship with those in power = easy work life.

cannotlogin

Strange how the issue started so close to your probation period review? Maybe I'm just cycnical

beauf

cannotlogin wrote: »

Strange how the issue sharted so close to your probation period review? Maybe I'm just cycnical

Indeed...

cannotlogin

cannotlogin wrote: »

Strange how the issue sharted so close to your probation period review? Maybe I'm just cycnical[/QUOTE

That should be of more condemnatory relevance to the boss and her reported behaviour, not the employee.

Pineapple1

Update: So I have been scheduled to work next Tuesday with the boss, I then have my 12 month probabtion meeting after work. Not sure what to think or expect at that really.

Glass fused light

Just a small point but the meeting is work and you should be paid for the time spent at the meeting.

As for the meeting, if you have decided to leave and don't feel up to meeting with the manager don't. It's not going to make any difference. Just hand in your notice and refuse to engage.

PooPooPooPoo

Go to a solicitor for advice with a view to taking a case against them for constructive dismissal. You are being shoved out the door, bullied and that is against the law. Resign then hit them with the case. That manager will be found out in time.



Above all, look after yourself, you're not wanted in that job (by that manager) so just walk away. It's a great learning experience in time.

NinjaTruncs

Personally I'd be going into that review meeting expecting to be sacked. The main reason is that you may be more prepared for any bad news that they do deliver, even if you're planning on leaving yourself being let go is never nice. Best case scenario you're kept on and the meeting should be more positive, worst case you're let ago but atleast you're more prepared and the meeting may not evolve into a shouting match.
Best of luck!

Elemonator

Does your workplace have a policy with regards to dealing with bullying and harassment in the workplace? You could launch a WRC case for bullying and breach of contract which is cheap and you won't require legal representation.

Look to see if you have a local FLAC centre. Usually staffed by qualified solicitors and barristers who will give you professional advice. They won't represent you however.

PooPooPooPoo

PooPooPooPoo wrote: »

Go to a solicitor for advice with a view to taking a case against them for constructive dismissal. You are being shoved out the door, bullied and that is against the law. Resign then hit them with the case. That manager will be found out in time.



Above all, look after yourself, you're not wanted in that job (by that manager) so just walk away. It's a great learning experience in time.

Generally you need to have twelve months service for constructive dismissal to kick in.

Are meetings out of hours normal?
As above prepare for the worst and if it happens try and put it behind you and get on with your life.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

PooPooPooPoo wrote: »

Go to a solicitor for advice with a view to taking a case against them for constructive dismissal. You are being shoved out the door, bullied and that is against the law. Resign then hit them with the case. That manager will be found out in time.



Above all, look after yourself, you're not wanted in that job (by that manager) so just walk away. It's a great learning experience in time.

You can't take a case alleging constructive dismissal until you have 12 months continuous services, and you must exhaust the internal complaints procedures . prior to resignation. As above, leave and take it as a life lesson.

Reati

Paula Incalculable Mosque wrote: »

As above, leave and take it as a life lesson.

I'm amazed at the amount of people who are saying just leave like the bully boss shouldn't be challenged on this behaviour. If it was a job I enjoyed and was doing well at there would be no way I'd take this lying down.

The OP has said the battle is not worth having to stay but seriously, given you are leaving either way I'd be sure that person get's what they deserve and bring them through all the HR processes available. What they doing to do? Fire ya?

If not you, it'll be someone else on the receiving end.

OMM 0000

PooPooPooPoo wrote: »

Go to a solicitor for advice with a view to taking a case against them for constructive dismissal. You are being shoved out the door, bullied and that is against the law. Resign then hit them with the case. That manager will be found out in time.

I don't agree with this advice.

We are only getting one side of the story.

For all we know, the OP is a nightmare and in denial of her behaviour.

I've been in management a long time and it never ceases to amaze me how in denial so many people are, and how they're unable to accept criticism or personal responsibility for their actions.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with the OP but I would need to hear the manager's side of things before I advise spending money (and taking on the stress) of going down the legal action route.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Reati wrote: »

I'm amazed at the amount of people who are saying just leave like the bully boss shouldn't be challenged on this behaviour. If it was a job I enjoyed and was doing well at there would be no way I'd take this lying down.

The OP has said the battle is not worth having to stay but seriously, given you are leaving either way I'd be sure that person get's what they deserve and bring them through all the HR processes available. What they doing to do? Fire ya?

If not you, it'll be someone else on the receiving end.

Even if we take OP's account as gospel, the situation boils down to a manager is unsatisfied with the work of an employee on probation. If the OP describes the situation to HR as they did here, including calling their manager a lunatic, what outcome do you expect?

The OP should certainly use the internal complaints procedures as she feels wronged, but the case is not anywhere as clear cut as you make it out to be.

If you are going into the review meeting, theres one thing I would do OP, and thats to write down any concerns and confrontations you have had with your manager eg: when you said she criticised you in front of customers etc. state the time the place and what she/you said.

I'd tend just to read that out at the meeting, or use it as a reference at the meeting to defend your corner. (ie: dont give them a written copy as its allegations). If you are going to the meeting, dont take it lying down.

Reati

Paula Incalculable Mosque wrote: »

Even if we take OP's account as gospel, the situation boils down to a manager is unsatisfied with the work of an employee on probation. If the OP describes the situation to HR as they did here, including calling their manager a lunatic, what outcome do you expect?

The OP should certainly use the internal complaints procedures as she feels wronged, but the case is not anywhere as clear cut as you make it out to be.

Of course it's not clear cut but we only have the OPs side to go on and are advising her. If her boss comes on and tells a different story we can advise her boss based on what they post. We can only reply based on what has been presented.

Anyway, the OP might not have handled some of the situation well but that doesn't excuse the alleged bosses behaviour and HR should be aware of it. As I said, once the OP is gone someone else will be getting it. People like that just shift their ego trip to the next person.

Given the OP is leaving anyway, they have nothing to lose by highlighting it with HR. Even the thought that HR looked at it can be enough to knock someone like that down. If the OP is full of it HR will rule so.

Again, it all depends on a heap of info we don't have but to run away and not challenge the alleged behaviour is cowardly to me, but that's just me.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Reati wrote: »

Of course it's not clear cut but we only have the OPs side to go on and are advising her. If her boss comes on and tells a different story we can advise her boss based on what they post. We can only reply based on what has been presented.

You're misreading me. As presented by the OP, I can't see any way that a company's HR department would side with her or discipline the manager. An employee on probation whose work is unsatisfactory to management and who became argumentative and emotional, and then abusive in a meeting called to address the situation.

If anything, based on the OP's account, HR would likely agree that the employee is not a good fit for the organisation and support termination. Unless the OP's minimum notice period gives them more than 12 months continuous service, that's more or less it.

Pineapple1

Not sure where in my post I implied I was being abusive to my manager. Yes it got heated, yes I got emotional, but abusive, no.

OMM 0000

Pineapple1 wrote: »

Not sure where in my post I implied I was being abusive to my manager. Yes it got heated, yes I got emotional, but abusive, no.

Pineapple1 wrote: »

My defense was "For the last year I have been in this job, I had been doing a brilliant job at everything according to you until the last few weeks where you are accusing me of doing things I have always been doing right, wrong which is not true. You have turned into a micromanaging lunatic I am afraid to do any job now in case I am magically doing it wrong now all of a sudden". The argument turned very heated, I told the boss a lot of what I thought of her and gave examples of times when I asked for help with tasks and was fobbed off.

Calling someone a "micromanaging lunatic" is abusive.

Also, "I told the boss a lot of what I thought of her" implies you said mean things to her.

Sincere question:

Are you sure you're looking at your own behaviour in an honest and realistic light?

is_that_so

Pineapple1 wrote: »

Not sure where in my post I implied I was being abusive to my manager. Yes it got heated, yes I got emotional, but abusive, no.

I think the point that poster was making, very poorly, is that we only have one side of the story. Even at that it doesn't sound like a job you should stay in too much longer. So clear your head about all of it, go to the meeting and see what happens. Regardless of what transpires there are always other options open to you. Best of luck!

is_that_so

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Calling someone a "micromanaging lunatic" is abusive.

Not really. I have known far, far too many of these types.

Also, "I told the boss a lot of what I thought of her" implies you said mean things to her.

Your interpretation of what was said. It did sound like it got heated. Sometimes things slip out that we apologise for later.

Pineapple1

OMM 0000: Look, you have stated on here you are in management yourself, obviously you are seeing it from a manager's point of view only. Nothing will be happening regarding this issue until Tuesday.

OMM 0000

Pineapple1 wrote: »

OMM 0000: Look, you have stated on here you are in management yourself, obviously you are seeing it from a manager's point of view only. Nothing will be happening regarding this issue until Tuesday.

I just think angrily telling someone in the workplace they're a lunatic, and angrily letting them know "what you think of them" is abusive behaviour.

Imagine it was your manager doing that to you.

Imagine how upset you'd be.

If you really can't see anything wrong with your behaviour, it makes me doubt you're as innocent as you say you are.

I do wish you a good outcome.

Wheety

Sounds like the management style in a well known Irish supermarket chain. Going by the OP's side of it anyway.

Escapees

@OP, I have seen staff treated like you have been in the past, where everything's been rosy but then their manager starts suddenly picking them up on everything and anything. It's nearly always someone with lower self-esteem or confidence than other staff, and that's more likely to take it.

In one case, it also started happening just before the staff's probation period was ending - in that case it emerged that the manager had been put under pressure to reduce staff numbers and all the other staff there, no matter how sloppy their work was in comparison, were permanent. In another case, it was simply a case of the manager being stressed and just venting by picking on a staff member who would take it - i.e. effectively bullying them.

Anyway, what often happened was that the person being picked on became more and more anxious and nervous at work and this would then lead to them making mistakes, genuine ones this time. And things sadly tended to spiral from there...

I would strongly recommend that you park all this s*it, focus on any exams you have left and then just go in to work on Tuesday and hand in your notice at the start of the day. The scheduled meeting will likely not happen then. Even if your manager had magically planned to apologise to you at this, there's nothing stopping them from persuading you not to leave. Note that I would not give any reason for leaving or get into any discussion on it.

In the days after, you can properly reflect on things and decide what to do next - e.g. write to upper management about your experience, start looking for work again etc. But you will likely feel much more relaxed and happy about things, not anxious and stressed out.

Paula Incalculable Mosque

Paula Incalculable Mosque wrote: »

Unless the OP's minimum notice period gives them more than 12 months continuous service, that's more or less it.

The above is key regarding relevant timing.

The OP's story is often repeated here on boards in that it's typical, and while a single source is unlikely to tell the full picture, there's enough in the OP's post to at least be plausible.

The OP's priority should be their own mental health, especially with exams coming up.

There's plenty of sales assistant type work out there. It's not your responsibility to fix the manager. As suggested, to get closure, once you've left you could write to management about your experiences. Be careful of defamation laws.

Good luck.

Blueshoe

It's just a job. Hand in your notice but take Tuesday as your day to get even with her. That's all you have to do on Tuesday. Make her cry.

Also get her to have a go at you and voice record it. Then blackmail her

Pineapple1

Thanks everyone for the supportive responses, I really appreciate the advice given. Will take Tuesday as it comes when it arrives.

osarusan

Pineapple1 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the supportive responses, I really appreciate the advice given. Will take Tuesday as it comes when it arrives.

Will that Tuesday meeting be just the two of you? Could you request that another person attend also?

Nobelium

OP Don't make the mistake of wasting your Time money and health in a dysfunctional workplace with a dysfunctional manger.

Get out of that company as quickly as possible, even if it means a cut and pay in conditions, and move onward and upwards.

If anyone tells you anything else it's very bad / inexperienced advice.

Your health and well being is your actual wealth.

Pineapple1

Osarusan: tbh Im really not sure, and I know I should know, although I have a feeling it will be me, the boss, and the other floor boss (he is not my direct boss but he would have authority to manage me over something if it did come up if you get me)

Pineapple1

Well guys, just here on my lunch break, have just over 2 hours left untip.my meeting and tbh Im not sue wjat to expect. Half of me kind of wants to be sacked but the other half is not sure. My boss has been sound towards me today, very helpful for a change (probably out of awkwardness). I was nearly sick with nerves all day and night yesterday, woke up once every hour with nerves etc

gimli2112

Companies can simply decide not to take probationary employees on permanently, it works out cheaper for them but it's a crappy way to do business imo. Years ago I was asked by my employer why I should be employed over my co-worker who was also coming to the end of their probationary period and I told them they absolutely should hire the other person who was brilliant. They let both of us go.


If you enjoy working there it will be a pity but not much more than that. It won't be a sacking though, just a crappy work practice.

gordongekko

Pineapple1 wrote: »

Well guys, just here on my lunch break, have just over 2 hours left untip.my meeting and tbh Im not sue wjat to expect. Half of me kind of wants to be sacked but the other half is not sure. My boss has been sound towards me today, very helpful for a change (probably out of awkwardness). I was nearly sick with nerves all day and night yesterday, woke up once every hour with nerves etc

Stay calm. Say as little as possible. Record the meeting if possible

Pineapple1

Pineapple1 wrote: »

Well guys, just here on my lunch break, have just over 2 hours left untip.my meeting and tbh Im not sue wjat to expect. Half of me kind of wants to be sacked but the other half is not sure. My boss has been sound towards me today, very helpful for a change (probably out of awkwardness). I was nearly sick with nerves all day and night yesterday, woke up once every hour with nerves etc

You cant be "sacked" in a yearly review? Can you? Seems a totally and unprofessional setting to terminate anyones employment. Has to be a separate process?

Mya Angry Vow

Mya Angry Vow wrote: »

You cant be "sacked" in a yearly review? Can you? Seems a totally and unprofessional setting to terminate anyones employment. Has to be a separate process?

Within year one - perfectly legal. One year (or time served plus notice period) then no, totally separate process (at least in theory).

Tomw86

How did it go?

Pineapple1

They said I didnt pass my probabtion. I just said to them thats fine. And said to be honest I had been wanting to leave aswell for some time. It was all very amicable. They let me type up a resignation letter dated one week ago so that was sound of them. Although I think some of the reasons they gave were questionable considering I seen coworkers guilty of doing the same things, there was no point in going there with them. I'm free of that boss now. Just kind of dont know what to think, sitting here in a bit of a daze.

Thanks for letting us know Pineapple. Chalk it up to experience, which will stand by you, and move on with a smile.

gimli2112

the one I feel most sorry for in all this is the person who replaces you.

Pineapple1

Gimlii2112: Absolutely.