Deer Hunting questions.

Kran

Just a few quick ones for you guys. Doubt I’ll be doing any deer hunting the coming season as budget for new guns is well and truly blown, saying that I’ve a few questions about the whole process.
Say I get permission from 1 farmer with more than 100 acres, is that enough land to get a license or do I need permission from another farmer?
So I get my license to shoot deer based on shooting permission from a farmer who’s land details I put on the application. Then I get permission from another farmer for land somewhere else, will the license cover me for anywhere or only the land I applied for?
Lastly and I don’t want to open a can of worms here but should I even bother looking at .243 rifles? I’m not into ballistics and just want something that does the job, won’t burn out a barrel in my lifetime and good ammunition is easy to find. As such I’m considering 270, 308 and 243 as I’ve come across some nice .243 guns but I’m wondering if it’s a waste of time even looking at them.

tac foley

Depending how old you are and how many rounds you propose to shoot in your shooting lifetime, a barrel might just outlast you. I shoot a 1980-made Steyr SSG69 in .308Win with over fourteen thousand range-documented shots - it still shoot five shot 3/4" groups at 100m, like the day it did when we bought it and its seven sisters. Again, in .308Win - my Krico 650SS has >8000 shots, and makes 1/2" five shot groups all the live-long day.

I have no experience shooting the other two calibres you mention, but buying a rifle like a Blaser or a Savage will enable you to replace the barrel with ease when you feel that its accuracy has started to diminish.

Barrel burn-out seems to be the province of high-stepping target cartridges, like the 7mm ROM, 6.5-.284 and even so 'tis said, the 6.5 Creedmoor. Accuracy in these calibres shows a definite fall-off at around 1500 or so shots. Shooting many shots quickly will not only heat up your barrel to a ridiculous point, but will exacerbate the wear in the throat and leades.

Just how many deer do you shoot that you think you will wear out a modern barrel in a hunting calibre?

Grizzly 45

The lic will cover you for where you have permissions to hunt .Be it next door ,or in another county. .243 ,nothing wrong with it as an Irish deer caliber.It will drop anything we have in Ireland with the right shot placement.Only thing is the ammo selection isnt all that wonderful here,if you want to punch some paper with it as well.If you want to do both hunting and some paper punching,I'd go to .308.

Kran

I currently shoot zero deer and don’t ever imagine shooting too many per year when I get going. It was more of a question of what to avoid buying and you answered that with regards to the Creedmoor. People might hesitate to buy one second hand if they thought it could have seen a lot of use. Just because someone says it’s only fired a few hundred rounds most guys would take that with a pinch of salt.

Rows Grower

Kran wrote: »

Just a few quick ones for you guys. Doubt I’ll be doing any deer hunting the coming season as budget for new guns is well and truly blown, saying that I’ve a few questions about the whole process.
Say I get permission from 1 farmer with more than 100 acres, is that enough land to get a license or do I need permission from another farmer?
So I get my license to shoot deer based on shooting permission from a farmer who’s land details I put on the application. Then I get permission from another farmer for land somewhere else, will the license cover me for anywhere or only the land I applied for?
Lastly and I don’t want to open a can of worms here but should I even bother looking at .243 rifles? I’m not into ballistics and just want something that does the job, won’t burn out a barrel in my lifetime and good ammunition is easy to find. As such I’m considering 270, 308 and 243 as I’ve come across some nice .243 guns but I’m wondering if it’s a waste of time even looking at them.

I'm only new to the game myself and I stand to be corrected but from what I understand once the land area is 100 acres or over it doesn't matter how many owners there are.
In other words one farmer that has 100 acres or more that gives you written permission is as good as four farmers with 25 acres or more each.

Again I stand to be corrected but as regards ability to shoot on different lands my understanding is, if you have a licence to shoot deer and permission from the owner of the land or the sporting rights you are shooting on, you can shoot away and are not confined to the lands you submitted on your application, once the season is open.

As for rifle choice I went with a .308, if you are on target, down they will go like a sack of spuds.

If you miss, the noise alone might make them run away faster than usual.

SakoHunter75

Rows Grower wrote: »

Again I stand to be corrected but as regards ability to shoot on different lands my understanding is, if you have a licence to shoot deer and permission from the owner of the land or the sporting rights you are shooting on, you can shoot away and are not confined to the lands you submitted on your application, once the season is open.

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of this. Can anyone else confirm it as true (or otherwise)?

cookimonster

8I've a 60 odd -ish old 270 with no providence, still shooting absolutely spot on.

Accuracy is a matter of perspective. Hunting rifles on principle were never intended to produce near clover leaf groups (not that its uncommon nowadays) . MOA rifles are relatively new, relatively if you take into consideration how long we actually have modern firearms, starting with the likes of the Mauser 98. Now couple this premise with another leap forward for accuracy and that was the mass production of consistent and reliable ammonition, much latter in the latter half of the 20th Centry then most realise. Prior to this factory ammonition was of a poorer quality.

So back to rifles, one mans poorly accurate target rifle is another mans highly accurate stalking rifle. Without the debate over point of aim on a deer and absolutely applying the mantra 'aim small, miss small' a deer vitals or neck is still a large target at sensible hunting ranges. So a rifle printing inch and a half groups at 100 yrds/mtr will do the job perfectly. Most of us cannot out shoot our own rifles when it comes to accuracy. Practice and properly set up rifles will provide you with all the accuracy that you need in the field.

The debate over calibre will continue to rage on because its a matter of personal choice and a little bit down to the fact lads won't talk ill of thier calibre. I've done the .243 as my intro calibre and the fact that nearly all the lads that got me into stalking were using it. Since then not only have I changed up so have several of the lads.
What I would preach now is looking forward to what could be, realisticly. Guys start off I'm only interested in 1 or 2 for the pot' years latter they've permissions around the Country, knocking Sika, Fallow and Reds... ...Europe for boar ...Africa. Although the .243 will knock all here, .308 will offer a better range of ammo with a good cost spread.
But as I said before if it was me I'd go the .270 route (less ammo choice, not bad pricing, and most .270 will eat any brand, ....remember first part of the argument on accuracy.
BUT, then again if you go the .270 route why not just jump in with two feet go the 30-06 route, internationally recognised as the most versatile calibre with 126gr vermin rounds up to 220 big game pills. The 150/180gr bullets being great for hill and woods. Again the 06 tend to digest most fodder regardless of grain or make. New ammo, latter half 20th Centery, kills or rather tames the hot debate of the 308 vs the 30-06.

Back to rifles, it's easy to spend other lads money so recommending higher end marquees comes naturally. Like the calibre debate lads don't like to admit that some lads 'cheepo' (again relatively speaking) shoots as good as thier more expensive one. Technology has allowed for the advancement of rifle production with better metals and metal working techniques then before. Again the latter half of the 20th Centry saw the large scale manufacturer's sink or swim in the gun market, even in the large expanse of the US. They developed cheeper production methods and yes some of the glamour was lost but quality and standards improved. Rifles such as Howa can be purchased for reasonable prices compared to that of a CZ and agsin a CZ is in the happenny place compared to a Blazer. Lower end rifles won't have a great resale value, but I defy a lad to get back the perceived value of his gun on trade or sale no matter what brand. Unless you do something wrong even the low end market will last you a life time with realistic annual round counts. If a barrel was to burn out at 1000 rounds, the average lad may put 30 rounds through the barrel per year. Thats 30 years odd at the low end, fair play if you resist the itch over 30 years not to change your firearm or calibre, but even if you don't my stats are on the low end for normal barrel ware (back to relative accuracy).

If you have patience and are willing, yep absolutely go for a higher end rifle compared to, what I coined 'a supermarket gun' .... the one you can go into a US supermarket and buy a stick of butter, a loaf of bread, a Savage Axis and a container of milk'. But again I've seen lads disappointed after purchasing thier dream rifle in what ever make or model. Even big name optics fall into this area, but optics are another story.

Just a few long winded thoughts, to while away a rainy Army mid week holiday.

cookimonster

SakoHunter75 wrote: »

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of this. Can anyone else confirm it as true (or otherwise)?

Your DHL gives you permission to hunt deer on any land that you have permission hunt over.

SakoHunter75

cookimonster wrote: »

Your DHL gives you permission to hunt deer on any land that you have permission hunt over.

So if you had your deer licence sorted out for a particular patch of land, and then got permission from the owner on another patch a week before the season started, you could hunt away on both patches once the season starts?

Kran

cookimonster wrote: »

I've a 60 odd -ish old 270 with no providence, still shooting absolutely spot on.

Accuracy is a matter of perspective. Hunting rifles on principle were never intended to produce near clover leaf groups (not that its uncommon nowadays) . MOA rifles are relatively new, relatively if you take into consideration how long we actually have modern firearms, starting with the likes of the Mauser 98. Now couple this premise with another leap forward for accuracy and that was the mass production of consistent and reliable ammonition, much latter in the latter half of the 20th Centry then most realise. Prior to this factory ammonition was of a poorer quality.

So back to rifles, one mans poorly accurate target rifle is another mans highly accurate stalking rifle. Without the debate over point of aim on a deer and absolutely applying the mantra 'aim small, miss small' a deer vitals or neck is still a large target at sensible hunting ranges. So a rifle printing inch and a half groups at 100 yrds/mtr will do the job perfectly. Most of us cannot out shoot our own rifles when it comes to accuracy. Practice and properly set up rifles will provide you with all the accuracy that you need in the field.

The debate over calibre will continue to rage on because its a matter of personal choice and a little bit down to the fact lads won't talk ill of thier calibre. I've done the .243 as my intro calibre and the fact that nearly all the lads that got me into stalking were using it. Since then not only have I changed up so have several of the lads.
What I would preach now is looking forward to what could be, realisticly. Guys start off I'm only interested in 1 or 2 for the pot' years latter they've permissions around the Country, knocking Sika, Fallow and Reds... ...Europe for boar ...Africa. Although the .243 will knock all here, .308 will offer a better range of ammo with a good cost spread.
But as I said before if its was me go the .270 route (less ammo choice, not bad pricing, and most .270 will eat any brand, ....remember first part of the argument on accuracy.
BUT, then again if you go the .270 route why not just jump in with two feet go the 30-06 route, internationally recognised as the most versatile calibre with 126gr vermin rounds up to 220 big game pills. The 150/180gr bullets being great for hill and woods. Again the 06 tend to digest most fodder regardless of grain or make. New ammo, latter half 20th Centery, kills or rather tames the hot debate of the 308 vs the 30-06.

Back to rifles, it's easy to spend other lads money so recommending higher end marquees comes naturally. Like the calibre debate lads don't like to admit that some lads 'cheepo' (again relatively speaking) shoots as good as thier more expensive one. Technology has allowed for the advancement of rifle production with better metals and metal working techniques then before. Again the latter half of the 20th Centry saw the large scale manufacturer's sink or swim in the gun market, even in the large expanse of the US. They developed cheeper production methods and yes some of the glamour
was loused but quality and standards improved. Rifles such as Howa can be purchased for reasonable prices compared to that of a CZ and agsin a CZ is in the happenny place compared to a Blazer. Lower end rifles won't have a great resale value, but I defy a lad to get back the perceived value of his gun on trade or sale no matter what brand. Unless you do something wrong even the low end market will last you a life time with realistic annual round counts. If a barrel was to burn out at 1000 rounds, the average lad may put 30 rounds through the barrel per year. Thats 30 years odd at the low end, fair play if you resist the itch over 30 years not to change your firearm or calibre, but even if you don't my stats are on the low end for normal barrel ware (back to relative accuracy).

If you have patience and are willing, yep absolutely go for a higher end rifle compared to, what I coined 'a supermarket gun' .... the one you can go into a US supermarket and buy a stick of butter, a loaf of bread, a Savage Axis and a container of milk'. But again I've seen lads disappointed after purchasing thier dream rifle in what ever make or model. Even big name optics fall into this area, but optics are another story.

Just a few long winded thoughts, to while away a rainy Army mid week holiday.

I’ll probably stick with 308 for the ease of finding a gun and ammunition. I’d seen a few nice Remington 700’s in 243 though so that had put me thinking.

cookimonster

SakoHunter75 wrote: »

So if you had your deer licence sorted out for a particular patch of land, and then got permission from the owner on another patch a week before the season started, you could hunt away on both patches once the season starts?

Yep, no problem, most of the lads I shoot with and including myself only use one permission to apply for the licence. But we all have multiple permissions to hunt on, regularly bringing the other lads out on them.

What I would add is: if you are successfully applying each year for your licence based on previous permissions I wouldn't be too quick to keep adding new ones to your yearly renewal as it can slow down your application process especially if no DHL has been issued based on the permission.

cookimonster

Kran wrote: »

I’ll probably stick with 308 .......

Good choice, gives you an all round calibre, great for here and perfect for abroad when the opportunity arises.

SakoHunter75

cookimonster wrote: »

Yep, no problem, most of the lads I shoot with and including myself only use one permission to apply for the licence. But we all have multiple permissions to hunt on, regularly bringing the other lads out on them.

What I would add is: if you are successfully applying each year for your licence based on previous permissions I wouldn't be too quick to keep adding new ones to your yearly renewal as it can slow down your application process especially if no DHL has been issued based on the permission.

Thanks cookimonster, I've learned something new!

meathstevie

SakoHunter75 wrote: »

So if you had your deer licence sorted out for a particular patch of land, and then got permission from the owner on another patch a week before the season started, you could hunt away on both patches once the season starts?

Yes,simple as that. You get your licence based on one or a few written permissions and after you have the licence you can hunt deer on land where you have permission ( written or verbal ) anywhere in the State.

Sheep breeder

cookimonster wrote: »

Yep, no problem, most of the lads I shoot with and including myself only use one permission to apply for the licence. But we all have multiple permissions to hunt on, regularly bringing the other lads out on them.

What I would add is: if you are successfully applying each year for your licence based on previous permissions I wouldn't be too quick to keep adding new ones to your yearly renewal as it can slow down your application process especially if no DHL has been issued based on the permission.

Good way to loose ground by bringing out other lads with you and then they start to bring their mates and owner gets fed up of giving permission.

cookimonster

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Good way to loose ground by bringing out other lads with you and then they start to bring their mates and owner gets fed up of giving permission.

Errr,..nope!

So, by your reckoning, if you bring a lad out for a shot on your permission your giving him a free pass, I don't think so.

Good way of losing permissions all right if your bringing any Tom, Dick and Harry........
.... but if your bringing out like minded lads, whom you know and trust then theres no harm.

Cass

In God we trust, everyone else we check out.

I've brought two lads in the last 20 years into my permissions. Something in the Irish mentality about land and protecting it whether it's for hunting, yours for farming, etc.

cookimonster

Absolutely protect your own patch.
But if you hunt within a circle of trusted friends you can widen your experiences and opportunities. You just have to be upfront with the rules and practices that you may have for each location while at the same time you should readily accept any terms and conditions placed on yourself.

Rows Grower

They're starting to organise themselves and fight back, be careful out there lads and lassies...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/three-deer-trap-woman-in-apartment-after-crashing-through-window-929037.html

Rows Grower

Don't say I didn't warn ye...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/texas-police-find-a-deer-in-a-house-after-the-homeowner-mistook-it-for-a-burglar-929409.html

solarwinds

I would love to see how that officer subdued the deer, did he talk it down i wonder.

theharve01

hi,
i had a deer hunting question. i am applying for my first licence this year. i have all my permissions and all sorted, i was wondering, do i need to go back to the farmer every year to get him to sign a new permission form when renewing my licence.

thanks
cz .243

Rows Grower

theharve01 wrote: »

hi,
i had a deer hunting question. i am applying for my first licence this year. i have all my permissions and all sorted, i was wondering, do i need to go back to the farmer every year to get him to sign a new permission form when renewing my licence.

thanks
cz .243

Yep.

theharve01

ok, thanks for that rows grower. just wondering as well, when i renew my shotgun licence, do i need to get new permissions signed again aswell. or do i just resend in the old ones, or none at all as its only a renewal.

Rows Grower

theharve01 wrote: »

ok, thanks for that rows grower. just wondering as well, when i renew my shotgun licence, do i need to get new permissions signed again aswell. or do i just resend in the old ones, or none at all as its only a renewal.

I can't help you there harve as I haven't had to renew a gun licence yet.

Cass

theharve01 wrote: »

. or do i just resend in the old ones, or none at all as its only a renewal.

With a renewal you'll receive and FCR (Firearms Certificate Renewal) form in the post. It'll be per-populated (meaning it's already filled in) and you just check the details are correct, correct any mistakes or changes and assuming you are using the same land permissions you simply sign it, and return with the photo.