Feedback

GirlatdRockShow

I went for an interview in the HSE the week beginning March 4th. Two hours after my interview I got an email for the hr person to say I didn't get the job. Fair enough, I didn't feel I did a great interview anyway so didn't have high hopes I would get it. Hoping to learn from my mistakes I asked for feedback the following day.
The HR person got back to me on April 1st to ask would I be avaible to take a call in the middle of the day two days later, to get verbal feedback from the interview panel.
I asked could I get the feedback in a written form, as I am still in my current job and didn't want to take a phone of thoa nature during the my workday. HR person said that was fine, she would have something for me at end of week.
Since then I have heard nothing, I emailed last week to follow up and no reply.

What do I do next? I don't think the interview process was unfair but I do really want the feedback, as the interview was carried out using a specific structure and I want to learn from my mistakes. I think it's pretty bad that it's two months later, plus 3 emails on my side later and I still have nothing back. I want to complain but the only complaint sevices I can see on the hse website are either for complaining about the HSE service itself, or complaining if you think you were unfairly treated in interview

charlietheminxx

It could be that they were advised not to put interview feedback in an email? Hiring is enough of a minefield. While I can understand that feedback can be so useful, they don't owe it to you, especially in writing. It's pretty unreasonable that you're considering complaining about it to be honest.

gwalk

generation of perpetually offended outraged complaining snowflakes

skallywag

My own experience comes from private industry and not from a public body, but perhaps it is relevant in any case.

I would find it highly unusual for written feedback to be given to an unsuccessful interview candidate, in fact I have never heard of it. It is also not common, in my experience, to be offered a detailed oral feedback. If I wanted to have such a feedback, and a call was offered to me, then I would be making time for it. Putting something into writing usually takes much more time, effort and thought than a short phone call, and to be frank if an unsuccessful candidate asked me for feedback in writing rather than over a call that I had offered, then I would be reclining the offer.

HR should have been straight up with you here though, they should have made it clear that the written request was not going to happen.

Loveinapril

I think you were pushing it asking for written feedback. There is more work in it for the organisation and it could be misconstrued and used against the organisation. It is safer for them to avoid this. I always ask for feedback from unsuccessful interviews and only once in over ten years and as many interviews have I gotten any. It was a quick phone call. If you wanted it that badly, you should have made the time for the call considering you were given so much notice.

Rubberchikken

i think if you wanted the feedback then you should have taken the call.
very few if any people especially a body such as hse would be willing to put feedback in writing that could come back on them

skallywag

OP, there might still be a chance to get some verbal feedback.

I would recommend calling (not emailing) the HR contact that you have directly and ask could a short call still be an option. Any time I have been asked I have always made five minutes to give such a feedback, so you could be in luck if the relevant person has the time. You are going to need to be flexible on the time slot which is offered though.

_Brian

GirlatdRockShow wrote: »

I went for an interview in the HSE the week beginning March 4th. Two hours after my interview I got an email for the hr person to say I didn't get the job. Fair enough, I didn't feel I did a great interview anyway so didn't have high hopes I would get it. Hoping to learn from my mistakes I asked for feedback the following day.
The HR person got back to me on April 1st to ask would I be avaible to take a call in the middle of the day two days later, to get verbal feedback from the interview panel.
I asked could I get the feedback in a written form, as I am still in my current job and didn't want to take a phone of thoa nature during the my workday. HR person said that was fine, she would have something for me at end of week.
Since then I have heard nothing, I emailed last week to follow up and no reply.

What do I do next? I don't think the interview process was unfair but I do really want the feedback, as the interview was carried out using a specific structure and I want to learn from my mistakes. I think it's pretty bad that it's two months later, plus 3 emails on my side later and I still have nothing back. I want to complain but the only complaint sevices I can see on the hse website are either for complaining about the HSE service itself, or complaining if you think you were unfairly treated in interview

Just do a freedom of information request asking for notes from the interview. they must provide it then

skallywag

_Brian wrote: »

Just do a freedom of information request asking for notes from the interview. they must provide it then

I guess that this only applies to public bodies? I'm curious as how they take the interview notes in such a case, is there a standard template which gets filled out, as opposed to notes being made in someone's notebook, etc?

SusieBlue

Feedback, especially written feedback is a courtesy and not compulsory. You aren't entitled to it.
Yes, ideally they would give it but being demanding & making threats will get you nowhere, and it'll also limit any future opportunities in the company.
It sounds like you are being difficult.

_Brian

skallywag wrote: »

I guess that this only applies to public bodies? I'm curious as how they take the interview notes in such a case, is there a standard template which gets filled out, as opposed to notes being made in someone's notebook, etc?

Applies to every group public or private.
Hr collect the notes taken after interview and file the away.

splinter65

It was very courteous of them to offer to phone you re your interview.
You could have arranged to have 20 minutes off from work to take a call from them.
You’d already decided that you wanted them to take the time to write to you and point out in detail where in the interview you demonstrated that you were unsuitable for the job so you rejected the offer of the phone call and upped your request to this.
I’m sorry but all you did with that request was confirm for them that you were indeed unsuitable.
Imagine if every rejected job candidate requested a written report into their interview?
If I were close to you I would highly recommend that you invest in some sessions with a life coach to bring you up to speed with organizing your career path. I’ve heard some great success stories recently.

skallywag

_Brian wrote: »

Applies to every group public or private.
..

Does this mean that if I interview someone for a position in a private sector company, then I am legally obliged to hand over the interview notes to the candidate if requested?

dudara

skallywag wrote: »

Does this mean that if I interview someone for a position in a private sector company, then I am legally obliged to hand over the interview notes to the candidate if requested?

Most professional HR organizations will have trained interviewers on how to safely take interview notes and will have given them a structured format to use, so there’s less chance to go wrong. My interview notes are very factual, based on the answers given by the candidate. No observations or subjective comments.

skallywag

Very interesting.

I did not know that private sector companies are legally obliged to provide interview notes on request to unsuccessful candidates.

_Brian

skallywag wrote: »

Does this mean that if I interview someone for a position in a private sector company, then I am legally obliged to hand over the interview notes to the candidate if requested?

Yes.
A freedom of Information request must be complied with, there are some exemptions on the type of information or the request structure but in general now if your taking notes in an interview the client may request them.
Obviously mentioning anything relating to the big 9 discriminators in your notes isn’t wise.

_Brian

I may be incorrect on private companies. I’ll need to check that buyout I know a private company I worked with were forced to comply with an foi request.

Wabbit Ears

FOI requests for interview notes would only generally be made if someone felt that had been discriminated against unfairly or similar where they felt they really needed to know exactly what was written about them. To do it as a method of forcing interview feedback is a misuse of the FOI powers IMHO. Just because you have a right to exercise those powers doesn't mean its the right thing to do in this situation.

Berserker

skallywag wrote: »

I guess that this only applies to public bodies? I'm curious as how they take the interview notes in such a case, is there a standard template which gets filled out, as opposed to notes being made in someone's notebook, etc?

Nope. I've conducted interviews in the private sector and HR always advised caution when taking notes because the applicant can request a copy of our notes. You fill out a company and role specific interview form normally.

shauna365

Hi, Just wondering how soon after an interview with the HSE will you get a call back if you're successful? I had an interview last Tuesday and still no word?

shauna365

Hi, Just wondering how soon after an interview with the HSE will you get a call back if you're successful? I had an interview last Tuesday and still no word?

skallywag

Did they tell you when you could expect to hear back from them?

shauna365

no they never said.

skallywag

That's pretty poor form on their part.

Just a tip for the future, always ask when you can expect to hear back before you leave an interview. It's a very normal question, there is no need to feel in any way shy about asking.

Glass fused light

skallywag wrote: »

I guess that this only applies to public bodies?

In theory anyone can request the data under FOI. There would be exemptions and the protection of personal data.

skallywag wrote: »

I'm curious as how they take the interview notes in such a case, is there a standard template which gets filled out, as opposed to notes being made in someone's notebook, etc?

The organisation I was involved with 15+ years ago had a process of having a copy CV in a plastic cover (to prevent markings) a sheet of questions with a 1-5 score ranking to be ticked. This allowed the subjective analysis without a reasoning being needed. The CV and any hand written notes were to be collected and shred after the interview.

skallywag

Glass fused light wrote: »

In theory anyone can request the data under FOI. There would be exemptions and the protection of personal data.

Can this be requested just because an interview candidate is curious as to why they were not successful, or must they have a reason to believe that they were discriminated against?

28064212

FOI does not apply to private bodies: https://foi.gov.ie/faqs/what-bodies-are-covered-by-foi/

However, private bodies are covered by GDPR Access Requests: https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/individuals/know-your-rights/right-access-information

When it comes to the HSE, you could use either avenue

Glass fused light

skallywag wrote: »

Glass fused light wrote: »

In theory anyone can request the data under FOI. There would be exemptions and the protection of personal data.

Can this be requested just because an interview candidate is curious as to why they were not successful, or must they have a reason to believe that they were discriminated against?

If it is the person they can get all and any data on them under GDPR.

Its my understanding (only) that they may have a right to some of the sucessful persons scoring data. Eg if they are claiming that it was not an open and fair process as the other person did not have a key skill but it is counterargued that this was overcome by something else.

Glass fused light

skallywag wrote: »

Glass fused light wrote: »

In theory anyone can request the data under FOI. There would be exemptions and the protection of personal data.

Can this be requested just because an interview candidate is curious as to why they were not successful, or must they have a reason to believe that they were discriminated against?

If it is the person they can get all and any data on them under GDPR.

Its my understanding (only) that they may have a right to some of the sucessful persons scoring data. Eg if they are claiming that it was not an open and fair process as the other person did not have a key skill but it is counterargued that this was overcome by something else.

skallywag

Glass fused light wrote: »

If it is the person they can get all and any data on them under GDPR.

I really wonder though can one get access to this particular information under GDPR?

i.e. if I go through an interview process which I believe to be fair, and I do not think that I was discriminated against in any way, then is it really my right to get access to the interview notes which were taken, assuming a private body?

I would not have thought so. I might be wrong of course.

28064212

skallywag wrote: »

I really wonder though can one get access to this particular information under GDPR?

i.e. if I go through an interview process which I believe to be fair, and I do not think that I was discriminated against in any way, then is it really my right to get access to the interview notes which were taken, assuming a private body?

Yes: https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/individuals/know-your-rights/right-access-information

You have the right to obtain the following from the data controller:
...
2. Where personal data concerning you is being processed, a copy of your personal information

Glass fused light

skallywag wrote: »

Glass fused light wrote: »

If it is the person they can get all and any data on them under GDPR.

I really wonder though can one get access to this particular information under GDPR?

i.e. if I go through an interview process which I believe to be fair, and I do not think that I was discriminated against in any way, then is it really my right to get access to the interview notes which were taken, assuming a private body?

I would not have thought so. I might be wrong of course.

Thats the whole idea of GDPR. If the data is about you, you have the right to see it.

You dont have to feel that you were treated unfairly. But a misinterpetation of a written note could leave the organisation in trouble.
It was one of the reasons that the org put CVs in plastic to prevent marking eg your 50 and the job went to a 25 year old. Your education dates are both underlined so now you can argue age discrimination was a reason you did not get the job

Glass fused light

skallywag wrote: »

Glass fused light wrote: »

If it is the person they can get all and any data on them under GDPR.

I really wonder though can one get access to this particular information under GDPR?

i.e. if I go through an interview process which I believe to be fair, and I do not think that I was discriminated against in any way, then is it really my right to get access to the interview notes which were taken, assuming a private body?

I would not have thought so. I might be wrong of course.

Thats the whole idea of GDPR. If the data is about you, you have the right to see it.

You dont have to feel that you were treated unfairly. But a misinterpetation of a written note could leave the organisation in trouble.
It was one of the reasons that the org put CVs in plastic to prevent marking eg your 50 and the job went to a 25 year old. Your education dates are both underlined so now you can argue age discrimination was a reason you did not get the job

shauna365

anyone know how long the hSE take to get back after an interview??

SusieBlue

shauna365 wrote: »

anyone know how long the hSE take to get back after an interview??

You already asked this twice on this thread

skallywag

I had not thought about GDPR in that light before, though I am no expert on the topic so I am certainly not saying it is not the case. I can imagine that it would create a headache though if everyone decided to exercise this right.

Coming back to the topic of interview notes, this gets we wondering now if it is mandatory to record details in writing concerning unsuccessful applicants for positions in the private sector?

If a record is simply made saying e.g. 'applicant rejected for not meeting the technical requirements', etc, is this sufficient? I have even seen situations in smaller companies where no written record would be kept at all, or perhaps just a simple excel with the names of the unsuccessful applicants.

28064212

skallywag wrote: »

I had not thought about GDPR in that light before, though I am no expert on the topic so I am certainly not saying it is not the case. I can imagine that it would create a headache though if everyone decided to exercise this right.

Coming back to the topic of interview notes, this gets we wondering now if it is mandatory to record details in writing concerning unsuccessful applicants for positions in the private sector?

It's not required to keep written records, no. However, that is also opening you up to potential claims of discrimination: say you hired a man over a woman, and the woman subsequently claims she was discriminated against on the basis of gender. How are you going to show that the man was hired because he demonstrated better ability in the interview if you have no records? Particularly if the woman may have better qualifications in that area.

skallywag wrote: »

If a record is simply made saying e.g. 'applicant rejected for not meeting the technical requirements', etc, is this sufficient? I have even seen situations in smaller companies where no written record would be kept at all ...

It's sufficient if you're confident you can demonstrate what is recorded - say you reject someone on technical requirements because they don't have a particular cert, but the person you hire is less technically qualified (even though they have the cert). If the unsuccessful applicant can demonstrate they're more technically qualified, you're going to find it very hard to dispute that, because you didn't keep accurate records.

Glass fused light

The technical end of a application is a pre interview qualification. If you dont meet the minimum the org should not spend time/money meeting you. This is where HR should have a process for applications, normaly spliting the must haves (or you dont get an interview) with the nice to have and soft skill. Which is where HR would weigh the soft skills to be the deciding factor as these are subjective to the person. So it would be smarter to record a did not fit our culture or something equally fluffy.

shauna365

no one answered before so anyone know how long it takes hse to get back after an interview???

SusieBlue

shauna365 wrote: »

no one answered before so anyone know how long it takes hse to get back after an interview???

Set up a new thread and you might get more responses. This thread is about interview feedback so you're query will get lost in the mix of replies to that.

shauna365

how do you set up a new thread ? i only joined yesterday

SusieBlue

shauna365 wrote: »

how do you set up a new thread ? i only joined yesterday

Go into the "work problems" forum and click on the "new thread" button at the top right hand of the page.

shauna365

thanks.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

Glass fused light wrote: »

Thats the whole idea of GDPR. If the data is about you, you have the right to see it.

That's not entirely true. Paper records are (in general) only covered by GDPR if they are stored in a structured filing system, so you don't (necessarily) have the right to perform a DSAR for notes taken in someone's notepad. However, those notes would still be required to be kept for a one year period in case in litigation.

skallywag

Glass fused light wrote: »

The technical end of a application is a pre interview qualification. If you dont meet the minimum the org should not spend time/money meeting you.

It is not always that black and white though, perhaps best illustrated by way of example.

Let us say just for the sake of argument that I am looking for someone with a Masters degree in Chemical Engineering and a minimum of 5 years work experience in a certain aspect of the field. CVs / applications will flow into HR, and they will indeed check to make sure that this minimum criteria is met before someone ends up in front of me for a technical assessment. It will still be the case though that many applicants will still fail on technical grounds, even considering the fact that we will have had a technical call with them beforehand in most cases. Before I have someone in the same room as me, and give them a chance to rationalize scenarios, sketch out diagrams, etc, then I really have no way of knowing if they will technically be able to fulfill the role.

skallywag

Allie Fierce Tap-dancer wrote: »

That's not entirely true. Paper records are (in general) only covered by GDPR if they are stored in a structured filing system, so you don't (necessarily) have the right to perform a DSAR for notes taken in someone's notepad. However, those notes would still be required to be kept for a one year period in case in litigation.

That is also an interesting point. We would certainly jot down notes etc. during an interview, nothing in any way formal, just a few keywords to serve as a reminder afterwards. Nobody has in mind though that these notes may need to be kept for any period of time, etc.

I am surprised that such information is not spreading down better than it is, and especially considering GDPR is the buzzword of the moment which all HR departments (including our own) are very much aware of.

BattleCorp

Allie Fierce Tap-dancer wrote: »

That's not entirely true. Paper records are (in general) only covered by GDPR if they are stored in a structured filing system, so you don't (necessarily) have the right to perform a DSAR for notes taken in someone's notepad. However, those notes would still be required to be kept for a one year period in case in litigation.

There is absolutely no requirement to keep notes as you describe above. In fact, you shouldn't keep notes on someone who didn't get the job.

And you won't get out of your GDPR requirements by claiming that your filing system is sh1te. If you have data on someone, they are entitled to a copy of it if it identifies them in any way.

Now, if the information was disposed of shortly after the interview, then there's nothing to give them under GDPR regulations as you are holding no data on them.

rd1izb7lvpuksx

BattleCorp wrote: »

There is absolutely no requirement to keep notes as you describe above. In fact, you shouldn't keep notes on someone who didn't get the job.

Our legal advice is that if any notes are taken, they should be kept for a period of one year (based on advice from the DPC), as destruction of notes taken can be problematic in the event of a disgruntled failed candidate. The advice came with case studies where destroyed notes had weakened a defence against a discrimination claim.

Whether you keep your notes or not is up to you - I've certainly never come across an HR department that would let you take them and then destroy them.

BattleCorp wrote: »

And you won't get out of your GDPR requirements by claiming that your filing system is sh1te. If you have data on someone, they are entitled to a copy of it if it identifies them in any way.

Luckily, GDPR is a freely available regulation - you can read it yourself. From Article 2 - Material scope:

This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data wholly or partly by automated means and to the processing other than by automated means of personal data which form part of a filing system or are intended to form part of a filing system.

Where filing system is defined in Article 4 as:

(6) 'filing system' means any structured set of personal data which are accessible according to specific criteria, whether centralised, decentralised or dispersed on a functional or geographical basis;

Notes in a notebook that is not structured is not normally subject to GDPR.

Glass fused light

Allie Fierce Tap-dancer wrote: »

Our legal advice is that if any notes are taken, they should be kept for a period of one year (based on advice from the DPC), as destruction of notes taken can be problematic in the event of a disgruntled failed candidate. The advice came with case studies where destroyed notes had weakened a defence against a discrimination claim.
.....

Notes in a notebook that is not structured is not normally subject to GDPR.

"1. This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data wholly or partly by automated means and to the processing other than by automated means of personal data which form part of a filing system or are intended to form part of a filing system. "


I think that it a weak arguement that the HR policy is to keep notes to aid litigation, and then attempt to argue that they were not intended to form a part of the file of the candidate as they were/will not actually be filed until they benefited the company.

LimeFruitGum

OP, you were rejected within 2 HOURS of a HSE interview, and you are complaining about rescheduling a feedback call. Get down off your high horse. They’re not obligated to go into this level of feedback at all!
Why on earth would they bother spending time writing up feedback for such a candidate. There’s literally no business justification for it from their perspective. Are you not able to take notes during a phone call?
Seriously, just leave it. You did a really poor interview if you were rejected that quickly. Chalk it up and move on.

I came third in a panel competition for a HSE management position recently, and all I got was a 1 page feedback form after a month.