GAA inclusion and player dignity policy (up to u12)

Deskjockey

D9Male wrote: »

Fair play to the teacher earlier in the thread.

For my son's school, the junior team (U11, mainly 4th class) is run under Go Games rules. 30+ boys sign up. 5th class boys who make the senior (U13) team are excluded and the panel is rotated fully with boys playing every second game. It is great, as it allows kids who wouldn't get within an asses roar of most school teams have the experience of travelling to games on a bus and pulling on the school jersey. My son's team got hammered repeatedly, but he had great fun.

The senior team (u13) is more of a meritocracy. Squad of best 20 players in the school. Best 15 picked, but the teachers are great at giving the subs a go. They got to Croke Park. They were 10 points ahead at half time, and only hung on by a point after the bench was emptied in the second half. I was very impressed with how the teachers managed the situation.

Earlier in the year, they got complaints from 6th class parents about 5th class kids starting ahead of their sons. People will complain about anything!

Same in our school, 4th and 5th class, everyone gets a good run, with all players getting good gametime but always keeping some of the core players on the pitch at every stage.

At 6th class, its the best players who play and rightly so. There is serious competition to get onto the team, and it wouldn't be fair on the lads who are hurling day in day out to see their team lose just cause the mammy of some kid who picks up a hurley once every two weeks for the afternoon off / match day wants him to get equal gametime.

The teachers don't bring kids who can't play the tin whistle to the music competition, so the school's 6th class hurling / football shouldn't be any different.

bruschi

My own personal opinion, but there are a few posts and thoughts in here that I'd completely disagree with. It should be about inclusiveness at this age and competitiveness should not be the determining factor. Now maybe others are in different situations where clubs can afford to lose players who at 12 years old "arent good enough" but I know for myself and our club, we have to make huge efforts to keep all players going.

If a school team are training and all players make the same effort in attending training and participating, if you play a 5th class regularly over a 6th class player, then you can be 100% guaranteed that the 6th class player is just going to give up once he goes to secondary school and will be gone for good. I absolutely believe, up to that age anyway, that players up to the age should be given preference. The younger players have time on their hands to be starting games the following year, the 6th class player doesnt. It doesnt mean they cant play, but what is the important factor here? Winning or keeping participation levels up?

There is an argument that the competitive players will leave or give up if they sacrifice winning for playing other players who may be considered weaker, but there is zero evidence of this. Surely if they are competitive, that means they will work harder, not quit. Plus if they see that training and effort are defining factors of making a team, then that is a worthwhile lesson that skill does not trump effort and application.

The highest drop out in GAA participation is at age 7 to 10. Why is this happening so much at this particular age? Why do people constantly think if you dont have the basics or the ability by 12 or 13 that you are a lost cause. I know of 2 examples of players, one who never kicked a ball properly until he went to secondary school and another who was way below average when he started secondary school. By the end of 6th year, both were county minor players and both have since played over 100 competitive senior football games for their respective counties. If they werent given the equal opportunity and ability to develop in favour of better younger players, they'd have been lost for good.

They have enough competition across all grades of sports, including club GAA, they dont need to have the pressure heaped on them in every single thing they do. Obviously people have different opinions and how competitive teams should be, but similar to go games not having records results or tables to U11 and competitive games only start at U13, there is a balance to be had with it all. But there is also time on their hands. Which would a player value more important? Winning a county U13 medal or winning minor title? Which would translate more into clubs adult level?

QuadaLumpins

@bruschi ... great post. I agree 100%.

byhookorbycrook

In most primary schools, any child is welcome to take part in GAA activities. Teachers give up break time or taken training after school on their own time. Cumann na mBunscol is not run under Go Games rules in most counties and the panel numbers are strictly limited.

Yes, schools do play their best squad in the senior competition. In this case, the subs got a run, maybe not as much as they wanted, but I'm sure other children didn't get to go at all, because it's just not possible to do this logistically with one teacher.

nice_guy80

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Teacher here. I tried to organise a blitz with a few other schools for just 3rd and 4th class kids on the go games model. No score taken etc and no one I spoke to were interested. Says it all.

yeah.
it needs to be policy from on high for it to get going around the country
I see too many kids not wanting to play on school teams

nice_guy80

bruschi wrote: »

My own personal opinion, but there are a few posts and thoughts in here that I'd completely disagree with. It should be about inclusiveness at this age and competitiveness should not be the determining factor. Now maybe others are in different situations where clubs can afford to lose players who at 12 years old "arent good enough" but I know for myself and our club, we have to make huge efforts to keep all players going.

If a school team are training and all players make the same effort in attending training and participating, if you play a 5th class regularly over a 6th class player, then you can be 100% guaranteed that the 6th class player is just going to give up once he goes to secondary school and will be gone for good. I absolutely believe, up to that age anyway, that players up to the age should be given preference. The younger players have time on their hands to be starting games the following year, the 6th class player doesnt. It doesnt mean they cant play, but what is the important factor here? Winning or keeping participation levels up?

There is an argument that the competitive players will leave or give up if they sacrifice winning for playing other players who may be considered weaker, but there is zero evidence of this. Surely if they are competitive, that means they will work harder, not quit. Plus if they see that training and effort are defining factors of making a team, then that is a worthwhile lesson that skill does not trump effort and application.

The highest drop out in GAA participation is at age 7 to 10. Why is this happening so much at this particular age? Why do people constantly think if you dont have the basics or the ability by 12 or 13 that you are a lost cause. I know of 2 examples of players, one who never kicked a ball properly until he went to secondary school and another who was way below average when he started secondary school. By the end of 6th year, both were county minor players and both have since played over 100 competitive senior football games for their respective counties. If they werent given the equal opportunity and ability to develop in favour of better younger players, they'd have been lost for good.

They have enough competition across all grades of sports, including club GAA, they dont need to have the pressure heaped on them in every single thing they do. Obviously people have different opinions and how competitive teams should be, but similar to go games not having records results or tables to U11 and competitive games only start at U13, there is a balance to be had with it all. But there is also time on their hands. Which would a player value more important? Winning a county U13 medal or winning minor title? Which would translate more into clubs adult level?

the biggest drop out is after U14 in most clubs

bruschi

nice_guy80 wrote: »

the biggest drop out is after U14 in most clubs

I had thought the same, the transition from primary to secondary. I had also thought that from minor to adult would be up there, but apparently not going by research concluded by the GAA. It somewhat makes sense, most kids at 5 or 6 give GAA a go, or all sports at their disposal really. Many go up to the pitch, maybe a few times and then just not bother again. For a multitude of reasons, child not liking it, parents not prepared to give the time, transport logistics, whatever.

So this is the biggest drop out, whether you consider counting kids who dont give it a proper go or not is another thing, but at the same time, they do go and they arent retained, so it causes the biggest "drop out" numbers.

slingerz

bruschi wrote: »

I had thought the same, the transition from primary to secondary. I had also thought that from minor to adult would be up there, but apparently not going by research concluded by the GAA. It somewhat makes sense, most kids at 5 or 6 give GAA a go, or all sports at their disposal really. Many go up to the pitch, maybe a few times and then just not bother again. For a multitude of reasons, child not liking it, parents not prepared to give the time, transport logistics, whatever.

So this is the biggest drop out, whether you consider counting kids who dont give it a proper go or not is another thing, but at the same time, they do go and they arent retained, so it causes the biggest "drop out" numbers.

you have a high drop out rate from 7-10 as you have parents putting their child into all sorts of activities to try and find the one for them. We all know of times spent in gynamstics, rugby, piano lessons that they'd rather be doing anything but. By the time they reach 10 they will have voiced their dislike for an activity and have dropped out.