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GAA inclusion and player dignity policy (up to u12)

  • 05-05-2019 2:16pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ QuadaLumpins


    Is there a specific GAA policy for player inclusion, dignity and competitiveness for children up to u12?

    I’m asking as my local school brougth an u11 team to a blitz last week and the teacher played some players 100% in all 3 games while other players got less than 10 minutes. This led to a very upset little man in our house.

    When challenged that teacher was very dismissive and said they have adopted a “competitiveness” approach where they will be playing the “best” players.

    Surely this is wrong?

    Any advice or links to official GAA policy at this age group very much appreciated.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 660 ✭✭✭ davegilly


    Is there a specific GAA policy for player inclusion, dignity and competitiveness for children up to u12?

    I’m asking as my local school brougth an u11 team to a blitz last week and the teacher played some players 100% in all 3 games while other players got less than 10 minutes. This led to a very upset little man in our house.

    When challenged that teacher was very dismissive and said they have adopted a “competitiveness” approach where they will be playing the “best” players.

    Surely this is wrong?

    Any advice or links to official GAA policy at this age group very much appreciated.

    GAA games up to U12 are run as GO Games and are supposed to be fully inclusive with everyone getting equal time on the field. Easier said than done obviously but most teams I’ve been involved in try their best.

    I’m not sure what the guidelines are with schools GAA though so the teacher might be correct in what he is saying. However I don’t really think there should be any competitive games at that age and it should be 100% about inclusion.

    I know this doesn’t really answer your question but maybe in future get some guidelines from the school so you know where you stand before the games actually start.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ QuadaLumpins


    davegilly wrote: »
    GAA games up to U12 are run as GO Games and are supposed to be fully inclusive with everyone getting equal time on the field.

    Any link to this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 660 ✭✭✭ davegilly


    Any link to this?

    https://learning.gaa.ie/GAAGoGames

    Seems its actually up to U11.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭ arctictree


    To be fair, a lot of this is common sense. If in a blitz, you try to play as many teams as you can.
    In competitive matches, it depends on the game. If its a tight game, you're hardly going to take off your strongest players. You tend to rotate the weaker ones. If your well on top, the stronger players should come off to even things up a bit.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ QuadaLumpins


    arctictree wrote: »
    To be fair, a lot of this is common sense. If in a blitz, you try to play as many teams as you can.
    In competitive matches, it depends on the game. If its a tight game, you're hardly going to take off your strongest players. You tend to rotate the weaker ones. If your well on top, the stronger players should come off to even things up a bit.

    That is specifically against GAA guidelines. Most clubs have policies against exactly this.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,028 ✭✭✭ theoneeyedman


    I'm open to correction here, but AFAIK primary schools and their competitions are administered through Cumman na mBunscoil, rather than the GAA itself. Now, it's a fine line (in many ways a typical tactic of state run organisations), and in some ways a convenient one, but nonetheless a valid one. The schools competitions are just that, competitions under the auspices of Cumman na mBunscoil, and subject to their bylaws and rules, unlike games administered by the GAA, which are under GoGames rules. As I said, I'm open to correction here, so the teacher might technically be correct. Doesn't mean he didn't act like an asshat though....


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭ Vince135792003


    I'm a primary teacher and have taken school teams for the last 10 years at under 11 and under 13. I would always endeavour to ensure each child plays apart in games. It can be difficult though. Unlike, a club, you could have a group of over 30 children. Some may play for the local team. Some may have never played before. Some can feel intimidated and a few minutes is about all they want until they become more confident. You can also have children with specific needs. You then have in many instances children who are not academically strong but excel in GAA. In instances like that, it is a great way of boosting children's confidence and esteem. Above all I try to be fair and the goal is that they enjoy it. As an aside, I had a parent come up to be years ago threatening to report me to my principal because I was rotating the team too much and that "I didn't know the hurt losing caused at home" to her precious daughter. It is a funny world.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,609 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    arctictree wrote: »
    To be fair, a lot of this is common sense. If in a blitz, you try to play as many teams as you can.
    In competitive matches, it depends on the game. If its a tight game, you're hardly going to take off your strongest players. You tend to rotate the weaker ones. If your well on top, the stronger players should come off to even things up a bit.

    They are 11...how competitive can it really be?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,028 ✭✭✭ theoneeyedman


    GreeBo wrote: »
    They are 11...how competitive can it really be?

    Lord blessus..... Have you been at underage games at all??? Very competitive, I can tell you, and that's just on the sidelines :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭ db


    I'm a primary teacher and have taken school teams for the last 10 years at under 11 and under 13. I would always endeavour to ensure each child plays apart in games. It can be difficult though. Unlike, a club, you could have a group of over 30 children. Some may play for the local team. Some may have never played before. Some can feel intimidated and a few minutes is about all they want until they become more confident. You can also have children with specific needs. You then have in many instances children who are not academically strong but excel in GAA. In instances like that, it is a great way of boosting children's confidence and esteem. Above all you try I try to be fair and the goal is that they enjoy it. As an aside, I had a parent come up to be years ago threatening to report me to my principal because I was rotating the team too much and that "I didn't know the hurt losing caused at home" to her precious daughter. It is a funny world.

    Would you treat the children the same way in the classroom? Leave the children who are a bit weaker to look after themselves and give the children who are stronger academically all the attention.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,609 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Lord blessus..... Have you been at underage games at all??? Very competitive, I can tell you, and that's just on the sidelines :)

    Put it another way, how competitive does it *need* to be.

    Kids are mostly naturally competitive, but at 11 you dont need to be excluding some players just so the team wins some trophy. At that age you are honing your skills, not building a winning mentality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 660 ✭✭✭ davegilly


    GreeBo wrote: »
    They are 11...how competitive can it really be?
    I helped out as a coach up to U8's last year. Packed it in this year for U9's due to the behaviour of some of the parents. Would you believe I've witnessed some parents laugh at the weaker children playing football.

    That's how competitive and/or moronic some "adults" can be unfortunately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,609 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    davegilly wrote: »
    I helped out as a coach up to U8's last year. Packed it in this year for U9's due to the behaviour of some of the parents. Would you believe I've witnessed some parents laugh at the weaker children playing football.

    That's how competitive and/or moronic some "adults" can be unfortunately.

    In most kids sports that win at all costs mentality comes from a coach or parent who was a failed player, its pathetic to watch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭ Vince135792003


    db wrote: »
    Would you treat the children the same way in the classroom? Leave the children who are a bit weaker to look after themselves and give the children who are stronger academically all the attention.

    I do GAA three times a week instead of taking lunch. I do GAA after school twice a week after school. And I've done it for over 10 years for the simple reason I want as many children as possible to have a go at a game I love The benefits of it go far beyond kicking points and goals. It is also fantastic seeing a child being introduced to the game at 10 and to see them playing into adulthood. I am fair. In fact, I've had 1 complaint in all that time (from a parent who said we weren't being competitive enough and was not happy with rotation because of the upset of losing a league match caused her daughter). That might sound bonkers. It is bonkers. She even contacted my principal so it can be a strange world.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    School games are cutthroat

    They are not run on Go Games format


  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭ CiarraiAbu2


    Go games are just as competitive, if the GAA don't want them competitive than they shouldn't print tables or produce medals.

    School games are always competitive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭ Soulsun


    davegilly wrote: »
    I helped out as a coach up to U8's last year. Packed it in this year for U9's due to the behaviour of some of the parents. Would you believe I've witnessed some parents laugh at the weaker children playing football.

    That's how competitive and/or moronic some "adults" can be unfortunately.


    I actually would believe it ....... some GAA clubs are run by dysfunctional people.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    Schools need less competitive games and more developmental games
    Turn up, mix up all the teams and play a few small sided games


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭ D9Male


    Fair play to the teacher earlier in the thread.

    For my son's school, the junior team (U11, mainly 4th class) is run under Go Games rules. 30+ boys sign up. 5th class boys who make the senior (U13) team are excluded and the panel is rotated fully with boys playing every second game. It is great, as it allows kids who wouldn't get within an asses roar of most school teams have the experience of travelling to games on a bus and pulling on the school jersey. My son's team got hammered repeatedly, but he had great fun.

    The senior team (u13) is more of a meritocracy. Squad of best 20 players in the school. Best 15 picked, but the teachers are great at giving the subs a go. They got to Croke Park. They were 10 points ahead at half time, and only hung on by a point after the bench was emptied in the second half. I was very impressed with how the teachers managed the situation.

    Earlier in the year, they got complaints from 6th class parents about 5th class kids starting ahead of their sons. People will complain about anything!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭ D9Male


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    School games are cutthroat

    They are not run on Go Games format

    Yes they are.

    Here is a link to forthcoming games in Dublin schools run under Go Games format.


    https://www.cnmb.ie/FixturesList.asp?s=8&c=2#fixtures


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭ D9Male


    Go games are just as competitive, if the GAA don't want them competitive than they shouldn't print tables or produce medals.

    School games are always competitive.

    This is also misinformed.

    The GAA doesn't publish tables for Go Games in Dublin. The only medals for U11 and below are "medals for everyone" given in blitzes.

    They don't want Go Games competitive and they aren't really. You get a few stupid coaches taking them seriously, but most clubs swap players if numbers are uneven, allow extra players on the pitch for the losing team, etc.

    It all changes once they move to older age groups. As it should, in my view.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭ Bonzo Delaney


    Dammed if you do dammed if you don't for mentors/coaches in schools and Gaa club underage leagues and tournaments.

    I try a mix up the team keep a core of decent players on the field at all times not the same players though and run them in and out along with the weaker ones like for like.

    It's important to keep the weaker players involved as much as possible you'll need them with the club in a few years trying to make up 15 players.
    Plus it's a good leveler to have weak and strong players beside each other on the sidelines and on the pitch it creates more of a team bond .
    Maybe counties are different
    In Kildare every player gets at least half a game including u12s.
    On the other side if a school is running in a competion be it the young scientist, community games or sports tournament, you'd have to put out your best every time no questions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    D9Male wrote: »
    Yes they are.

    Here is a link to forthcoming games in Dublin schools run under Go Games format.


    https://www.cnmb.ie/FixturesList.asp?s=8&c=2#fixtures
    Ok.
    Rest of the country say otherwise


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭ wirelessdude01


    nice_guy80 wrote:
    Schools need less competitive games and more developmental games

    Teacher here. I tried to organise a blitz with a few other schools for just 3rd and 4th class kids on the go games model. No score taken etc and no one I spoke to were interested. Says it all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭ wirelessdude01


    D9Male wrote:
    Earlier in the year, they got complaints from 6th class parents about 5th class kids starting ahead of their sons. People will complain about anything!

    I got this as well in my school. One mammy wasn't happy that her son's younger cousin was starting ahead of him in the playoffs.

    Year previously I picked 4th class kids over 6th class for various reasons including the fact that they were better. 6th class parents got their knickers in a twist as previously 6th were always brought no matter whether they could kick a ball or not.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,246 ✭✭✭ judeboy101


    db wrote: »
    Would you treat the children the same way in the classroom? Leave the children who are a bit weaker to look after themselves and give the children who are stronger academically all the attention.

    If parents put stock in school league tables, you'll have to.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ QuadaLumpins


    judeboy101 wrote: »
    If parents put stock in school league tables, you'll have to.

    Disappointing that parents would put higher value on GAA school league tables than inclusiveness, equity, and development.

    Also, I’m surprised than some of the teachers on this thread would seem to agree with this. Its an interesting pedagogical attitude for a primary school teacher. Let’s hope they dont have this attitude, either consciously or subconsciously, in the classroom as part of their teaching practice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭ Vince135792003


    Disappointing that parents would put higher value on GAA school league tables than inclusiveness, equity, and development.

    I would say the majority of parents appreciate a teacher volunteering to do any after school activity and see the bigger picture. A quick thank you recognising the time you have given the children means alot too. From my experience volunteering is dropping in schools and without these teachers, sport aside from PE would not exist.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 93 ✭✭✭ QuadaLumpins


    I would say the majority of parents appreciate a teacher volunteering to do any after school activity and see the bigger picture. A quick thank you recognising the time you have given the children means alot too. From my experience volunteering is dropping in schools and without these teachers, sport aside from PE would not exist.

    It’s not about being appreciated by the majority of parents. It should be about doing the right thing for the child.


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,934 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Stoner


    And that's why the parents appreciate what the volunteers are doing.

    The poster was not imo indulging in some self promotion or looking for thanks. You'd imagine the appreciative parents want what's right for their children. I'd agree with how it's being measured, that's reliable feedback, no need to try to paint it any other way.


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