Boyfriend problems

LegacyUser

Hi all, long time member going anonymous for this one. I am really struggling at the minute. My boyfriend has a gambling problem (horses). He spends his wages pretty much as soon as he gets them then struggles through the end of the month borrowing money, using his credit card and then paying these off when he gets paid and the cycle starts again. He has been in debt with loans before but thankfully this is all now clear.

The problem has become more evident now that we are trying to save for a mortgage, we both pay money to a joint account each month but it always seems like he has to take some / all of the money back out for one reason or another as he has spent all his extra money on gambling. I really feel like I am the only one trying and it’s starting to get me down.

He’s admitted that he has a problem and has gotten upset about it many times before and promised to try change it. We have tried to put a plan in place where I control his money, credit card etc. but that doesn’t seem to be working. Last month he got paid and stayed up all night online gambling. It’s gotten to the stage that he’s said if he can’t stop he will have to break up with me as I deserve better. I don’t want to break up but I can’t help but think if things continue as they are it may come to that. I am trying to be as supportive as possible but I don’t even know where to start as at the end of the day only he can resolve this.

He does not want to attend gamblers anonymous. Just looking for any advise / experience people may have?

Thank you

Aufbau

OP, you need to step back for a breather.

It's a great idea to save for a mortgage. Keep doing it. But it's a very bad idea to have a joint account with a gambler. The compulsion is too strong.

Open a new account, just for yourself, and put ALL the money you've saved into the new account. Keep on saving into this account.

Then you can relax a bit and take a longer look at the situation.

You need to protect yourself, and to protect your future.

Gorgeousgeorge

He may not want to attend but its the only real solution to your problem. As said above try seperate your money as from personal experience of having a drug addict in the family they addict will stop at noting to get the fix. Gambling is no different

LegacyUser

Close the joint account for a start and take back what money is yours before he gets it. You're going to need to walk away eventually if he won't get help.

LegacyUser

On a practical note if his gambling is online most if not all sites allow the option to self exclude yourself from site. No bank is going to grant ye a mortgage with evidence of gambling and absolutely not if trace of an addiction to it. Split account back into yours before dispute arises and he lays claim to your cash, even if means handing him back a lump sum, the majority is yours if not entirely so.

Batgurl

Boyfriend Problems Gambling wrote: »

It’s gotten to the stage that he’s said if he can’t stop he will have to break up with me as I deserve better.

So his solution to his gambling problem is not to fix it but to drop you? This may seem like a selfless act on his part but honestly, he just thinks that if you are out of the way, he won’t have anyone to be accountable to.

OP, addicts have to WANT to change and he doesn’t. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. It’s only a matter of time before he’s dipping into your joint account and taking both your savings and not just his.

You need to give him an ultimatum; either he seeks real and meaningful treatment for his addiction or you leave. You need to be prepared to follow through and leave though and if he needs time to decide, then you have your answer.

punisher5112

You don't need a joint account for a mortgage and makes absolutely no difference.

As above shut it down.

He needs to go to counseling.

Be supportive but keep money well away.

Ursus Horribilis

Maybe you could make contact with someone from Gamblers Anonymous with a view to talking to some people who've been through this?

LegacyUser

Boyfriend Problems Gambling wrote: »

Last month he got paid and stayed up all night online gambling.

I hate to break it to you, but he's already ruined your mortgage plans for some time to come. Banks now consider online gambling one of the blackest marks against your credit rating and it'll be a minimum of 6 months, but more frequently up to 2 years before they slide off the list of reasons you won't get a mortgage. You may have to manage that one on your own.

More importantly though, it's one thing to help someone with an addiction, it's quite another for him to abdicate responsibility and totally hand over the financial reins to you. You can't be his keeper, you can't be watching his spending and gambling for him, those are things he has to do himself, he's an adult. If he can address the problem at the root by admitting his addiction and taking steps to manage it, you may have a future, but if he can't, consider whether or not you want to become his mother, counselor, boss and security guard, or if you'd be better calling it quits.

FishOnABike

Regularly taking money back out of your joint savings to spend on gambling and his reluctance to try and address his gambling problem says to me that he puts his gambling above your future together.

Financial problems are one of the largest causes of relationship breakdowns.

If you want a longterm stable relationship (financially and emotionally) your boyfriend needs to take serious steps to address his problem.

Does he always put back what he has 'borrowed' from your joint savings?

A first step for him is learn how to budget and not spend what he hasn't got (i.e. no tapping into your joint savings, no going into overdraft or borrowing and no using a credit card). He needs to set a reasonable limit on his discretionary spending. If he runs out of money before the end of the month he has no money for gambling or other non-essentials. Once his discretionary spend for the month is gone, it's gone.

Can you both agree to move your savings to an account where advance notice is needed prevent it from being tapped into for his day to day spending?

Having a significant amount of gambling on his bank statements will cause problems when it comes to applying for a mortgage, especially if it is at a level where it might indicate a gambling problem. Let's face it, if he is borrowing or dipping into savings to feed his gambling habit, it is a problem.

If he does not agree to move your joint savings into an account which needs notice for any withdrawals or both account holders to sign for any withdrawals I would do as other posters have advised and move your portion of the savings into an account to which he does not have any access otherwise you could wake up one day to find your savings gone on a 'sure thing'.

kg703

Hey

I work in the industry. Contact the companies he gambles with and inform them he is a problem gambler ASAP. They will shut him down. Likely he will try and open accounts elsewhere. Make your local bookies know too and there is a tool to let you self exclude from all gambling companies. The companies take this stuff very seriously and if they haven’t flagged him already once you do they SHOULD take the necessary steps to help

Mokuba

He needs to self exclude from all websites in your presence. He needs to self exclude from all bookies in the area in your presence. He needs to attend regular gamblers anonymous meetings.

I'd also purchase the Tony 10 book for him, just to see how deep the rabbit hole can go.

Its easy to see him as a liar or similar but gambling addiction is a terrible affliction. If he actually wants to beat it then he can do so with the above controls in place and with your help.

LolaJJ

Hey OP

Sorry to read this.

As with any addiction the temptatation is there for you as a "concerned person" to support him and try and help him maintain as normal a life as possible. Supplementing him when his money runs out, allowing him dip in to the mortgage savings etc.

This is all loving behaviour but it is also enabling him.

Sadly for addicts they often need to endure the consequences of their behaviour in an effort to get better, or in his case, to even acknowledge that attending a GA meeting might help.

You have a long road ahead of you. I would, as a previous poster suggested, move all of your savings in to a personal account so that he cannot access or see them. Let him try to save on his own. Try to gently stop propping him up and if buying a home is something that is very important to you then you may need to put those plans on hold if he is going to be involved. Dipping in to your savings to place a bet is one thing, when you start missing mortgage payments it's a very different level of pain...especially if 2 people are going to have their credit scores affected.

phantasmagoria

If somebody has a gambling problem that they don't want to recognise or address, this is a recipe for disaster. With this particular problem he cannot have access to any money or it will go the way of his other losses. If he is serious about stopping, giving you or a trusted family member access to his money and letting him have a small allowance would be a step in the right direction. Other helpful insights would be to stop watching sport, block gambling sites on your network, take up an enjoyable hobby to keep him occupied.

The red flag would be the preference that he has stated for gambling to the detriment of being in a relationship with you. He is looking for excuses.

Have a sit down with him and discuss the problem. If he won't do anything about it - it may be time to walk away before more heartache. If you decide to do that leave him a support network - maybe tell a family member.

The mentality is the sunk cost fallacy. If he's blown 40-50k over the last number of years, he's probably thinking he needs to get back on an even keel.

Some problem gamblers get their fix by just having one bet on a Saturday. A blanket solution isn't there for all but I hope he finds something that works. Some people try and fall off the wagon but ultimately get to a good place.

Remember that with some addictions you can drink and drug yourself into a stupor and be satiated with the money spent. Gambling has few visible symptoms and can be done on the sly - but problem gamblers will never have anything unless they are willing to address the root cause and change the behaviour. He could also lose everything depending on how reckless he is.

If you need any info just ask and good luck

phantasmagoria

I'd also purchase the Tony 10 book for him, just to see how deep the rabbit hole can go.

I wouldn't advise this. Tony10 stole most of the money to gamble and isn't exactly a role model. I know he is a better place now but you may give him some daft ideas. I couldn't help but think that Tony10 was proud of being an idiot when I was reading the book. I think if you could abridge the book and scrawl black marker all over the showy parts, it may be good!

caff

Notuser18 wrote: »

On a practical note if his gambling is online most if not all sites allow the option to self exclude yourself from site. No bank is going to grant ye a mortgage with evidence of gambling and absolutely not if trace of an addiction to it. Split account back into yours before dispute arises and he lays claim to your cash, even if means handing him back a lump sum, the majority is yours if not entirely so.

Not sure if they do it here but in the UK in addition to getting the sites to blacklist you can also ask your bank to block your card from them too

spurious

All the sites take problem gambling seriously. It is possible to set a daily or weekly limit, in some cases a per bet limit.

LegacyUser

phantasmagoria wrote: »

I'd also purchase the Tony 10 book for him, just to see how deep the rabbit hole can go.

I wouldn't advise this. Tony10 stole most of the money to gamble and isn't exactly a role model. I know he is a better place now but you may give him some daft ideas. I couldn't help but think that Tony10 was proud of being an idiot when I was reading the book. I think if you could abridge the book and scrawl black marker all over the showy parts, it may be good!

I really didn't like Tony10 after reading that book. Personal view only. I think the book is probably more useful for those who are close to a gambler to understand the systems, terminology, headspace and efforts a gambler will go to.

Knowing a compulsive gambling addict my advice to the OP is to get her partner to put into words/ write down the actions he's taken to overcome this problem.

Eg.
Wage deposited to account you alone manage & you dole out weekly allowance etc
Terminate all credit & debit cards he owns
Self exclusion from all gambling sites & local bookies if use
Attendance to GA - weekly?
Meeting counsellor/ - monthly?
Activity to start (perhaps together) to help fill void. Football, dancing, driving lessons, music, writing etc.
Agreement to not deceive you

These are just some ideas. You can add over time or edit. Make him sign it.

If he's not interested you have your answer.
If he agrees & doesn't adhere you know where you stand.

For me, I'd support my partner to change but the drive to change will come from them. If they didn't make these changes I'd walk away.

Mind yourself.

heretochat

I would echo those that say that if he is on-line gambling your chances of getting a mortgage are probably torpedoed anyway.

My cousin and her husband went for mortgage approval last year. She is a teacher and he has a big job in the financial sector.

Despite his salary being enough on its own to easily cover mortgage repayments, when the banks saw his on-line gambling on their bank statements they were refused a mortgage.

He now does all his lodgements to his on-line account in a bookies and they are only now in a position to go back with clean statements of 12-14 months or so.

Only one person's tale but a cautionary one I hope

Big Bag of Chips

I wouldn't believe that he has cleared all loans. How did he clear them? He hasn't a penny to his name. My friends husband is a gambling addict. She had no idea. None. When it all came to a very ugly head she realised he had 2 maxed out credit cards, 2 hefty loans, and had topped up their mortgage a number of times. He had even forged her signature on various documents.

He owes more money than he has admitted to you. By you "trying to be supportive" you are in fact making life easier for him to continue gambling. Withdraw your support. Withdraw your money. Do not give him any physical access to your money. Set up a separate credit union account or something for yourself. For as long as he is gambling, he will clear you out. If you stay together his debts will become your debts. You will bail him out and will either directly or indirectly contribute to paying off his debts.

Get yourself to Gam-Anon. It's a group for people living with a gambler in their lives. Don't listen to his sob stories of "I'll have to leave you if I can't stop". He's looking for sympathy, and saying whatever it is he needs to say to get what he wants.

Edit: As well as bank loans he probably owes family and friends various amounts too.

LegacyUser

Whatever you know about is definitely only tip of the iceberg. He won't sort this himself. You're enabling him. You're probably caught in massive web of lies.

Aufbau

What BBOC said x2.

OP, when you have separate accounts sorted, I strongly advise you to organise separate living arrangements too. (Assuming you're living together)

You can still be in a relationship. It might be a wrench, but it would help to find your own feet again and clear your head.

It would also give him space and maybe see what he wants more clearly too.

MissShihTzu

I can't add anything to the great advice you've already been given. Gambling is an addiction disorder in the same way was alcohol/drugs.

You see, with this kind of illness, addicts can be very crafty. They will do ANYTHING to feed their addiction, even to the extent of lying and stealing - you only have to open the paper or look online for daily stories...

I am with BBOC - I don't believe for one minute he's clear of the loans. Do you have proof he's clear??

The chance of a mortgage is gone. All you can do is to protect yourself. Shut down the joint account first thing Tuesday morning. Take out your money, and give him the rest (if he has any!). Separate all the bills. If you live together, pay the rent from your account ONLY. That at least will be some of the stress removed, if nothing else.

If he runs out of money mid-month? TOUGH!! DO NOT BAIL HIM OUT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

He has to be serious about addressing the issue, but sadly I don't think he's there yet. I'm sorry to say, it'll probably take a break up and for him to hit rock bottom before he addresses it.

He's already told you to leave as 'you deserve better'. He's an addict. When someone tells you who they are? Believe them! Personally, I'd be taking that advice. You'll only be dragged down further. You need to protect yourself.

Hope it works out for you.

cannotlogin

You are a far bigger gambler than him.

You are risking your entire future on a guy with a huge problem.

A girl I know did the same and only final left him after he gambled away the 10k her parents lodged to the joint wedding account.

You might love him but at present the gambling problem is bigger than you both. Let him get treatment and come back to you in time possibly but right now he doesn't deserve you.

LegacyUser

I agree with the other posters that you are enabling him.

It's madness to have a joint account with him for savings....and completely unfair to ask you to control everything. People face enough financial stress due to normal financial issues like running a household, childcare, college fees, and living, without having to take on the responsibility of controlling all their partners money too.


He said he will have to break up with you if he can't stop...what has he done to try to stop? had a plan with you where you control everything? Is that all?
He won't attend gamblers anonymous, I know nothing about gambling treatment but many people here said that you can self exclude yourself from gambling sites. I assume that that information will come up straight away if you google anything related to how to stop gambling!! So has he done anything like that? Is he expecting to wake up one day and never want to gamble again?

Also just to add I think it's absolutely crazy to consider even trying to get a mortgage with him! Even if you could get one sorted right now there is a risk his gambling will get even worse and you have no idea what financial situation he will get himself in to or if you will split over it etc, Would you be able to take on the full cost of the mortgage yourself?

What he does is pretty much out of your control, he has to help himself, and if he doesn't you need to seriously considering walking away.

Big Bag of Chips

Just to add, about my friend who is married to a gambler, he has been "clean" now for a number of years. He's has one or two minor slips in that time. But he had to admit that he needed to go to Gamblers Anonymous. Why won't your bf go? What's his reason for not even trying? Is it because he's doesn't actually want to stop, yet?

If he wanted to stop and if he valued you and your relationship above gambling his money away then he would do whatever necessary. But, at the moment it's just excuses because you're still there. You're still bailing him out. Life is "grand" for him.

As it turned out, my friends husband lost his job due to injury and was/is unable to work. She works in a low wage job and is the sole earner in the house for the last number of years. She was the one who had to pay off his credit cards, loans and friends and family. It took her years to clear everything he had built up. But, she was only able to work at clearing it all when he stopped gambling.

You're pissing against the wind for as long as he continues to gamble. It's a fools game, and you're as much of a fool if you stand back and watch it all happening.

You can not be supportive to a gambler. You simply can't. It's counterproductive. You can support him with trying to stop, and with addressing the problem, but you cannot support him while he's still actively gambling.

Steviesol

Nothing to say really except run for the hills. Gambling is insidious, the worst of the lot.


You can tell when someone has relapsed on heroin or drink, not gambling.

Nic_Col

I think you need to break up, addicts can be master manipulators, particularly when it comes to the people who care about them. I don't believe he has any intention of breaking up with you if his problem continues, that, and many things he says to you are merely empty statements designed to buy him more time.

As a general rule, never trust an addict.

A recovered addict on the other hand is a different story, and for your own sake you should not be with this man unless one day he becomes a recovered addict.

My mother had an alcohol addiction which almost took a family business down, various measures were tried such as financial restrictions on her access to cash and bank cards, but it was no use, she always found a way. She did AA meetings, rehab, but never truly committed to it, and ultimately managed to use them as enablers to her addiction. Unfortunately in her case the end result was a woman in the grave far too young.

You can't cure his addiction. There is nothing you can do, it has to come within himself, only he can do it. I've no doubting he loves you but your relationship and love is a massive enabler for him.

Don't think about now, think about your future. At the moment you're planning for a future with a full blown gambling addict. Think of the implications there, really think about it.

Step back, remove yourself as an enabler, move on with your life, if it's meant to be with him he will start the journey to recovery and maybe you will end up with that version of him again in the future. Maybe you will, maybe you won't. But for your own good, and the good of your own personal financial future, you need to remove yourself from this situation.

wildwillow

Imagine your future life in ten years if you stay with him. You may have managed to buy a house and start a family. Now think how you would feel when you lose everything to his gambling. You are homeless, have massive debts and your children are living in hotel rooms or begging space from family and friends.

Get yourself out of this relationship. You will never be able to relax, always wondering how much you owe. You have to think of yourself as he only thinks of his gambling.

No point in trying to manage his finances as he will always find a way and may be tempted to steal when all else fails.
Take all the really good advice given here and have a future where you are in charge of your destiny.

Unanimous

take all you have saved out of that joint account ASAP!
My advise to you is to never get married to such no matter what you do cos his debt will become your debt.
You can try to change him but look out for yourself so that you can walk away unhurt if you need to

el Fenomeno

No advice on the relationship side, but I'll echo what others have said on the financial side - get your money out of any account he has access to, and do it immediately.

Also, you don't stand a chance of getting a mortgage with him taking money out of savings every month (even if it's just taking back the amount he just put in). If he's online gambling, he won't be able to hide it from the banks. Taking money out of savings for gambling = absolutely zero possibility of a mortgage. Consider this when discussing the future with him, he'll need to be clean for the very minimum 6 months. Potentially more.

Charles Ingles

Sorry to hear about your troubles.
Your boyfriend needs a lot of support right now, your can help him get through it.
Don't be too hard on him you will push him away.
He needs to go gamblers anonymous, with your support you can both get over this and move on.
Love him and trust him that will help him.

punisher5112

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your troubles.
Your boyfriend needs a lot of support right now, your can help him get through it.
Don't be too hard on him you will push him away.
He needs to go gamblers anonymous, with your support you can both get over this and move on.
Love him and trust him that will help him.

Trust him..... Charles you're hilarious....

How can you trust a prolific gambler???

piplip87

The problem with self exclusion is that there's literally hundreds of gambling sites and if you self exclude from 30 of them there's always another one to open an account in.

He needs to hit rock bottom to get over this addiction. Allowing him access to a joint account, bailing him out or even making excuses for him is enabling him.

You need to move all funds in the joint account somewhere he cannot access it. You need to to ask yourself if he was putting all his money up his nose or drinking it all would you put up with it ?

From what I gather your best off cutting your losses and getting out of it.

Big Bag of Chips

Charles, I really do believe you have a very simplistic view of the world. By going to GamAnon herself the OP will be told, and will indeed learn that she simply cannot trust her partner. He lies. Daily. Multiple times a day.

OP, unless he commits to looking for external support to stop his gambling then you would be a fool to blindly trust him. It's a nice idea in theory. But it is an idea that will leave you with a millstone around your neck. The longer you trust him and support him the deeper into debt you are getting him, and by extension yourself.

Of course, if he puts his hands up and commits to stopping, self excludes, gives you full access to and full control of all his finances, goes to Gamblers Anonymous and is sincere in his efforts to stop completely and clear his own debts which will involve talking to banks, credit card companies, possibly companies he has unpaid bills with, friends and family he has borrowed from etc. then there might be a time where you can trust him again. This isn't a problem that will be sorted with him saying "I promise I won't gamble anymore".

Until he is prepared to do all that, there is nothing you can do for him. All you can do is start to protect yourself and get as much information as you can about the world you are now in.

Nikki Sixx

It sounds awful, but threaten to tell his parents the full extent of what’s going on.

Charles Ingles

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

Charles, I really do believe you have a very simplistic view of the world. By going to GamAnon herself the OP will be told, and will indeed learn that she simply cannot trust her partner. He lies. Daily. Multiple times a day.

OP, unless he commits to looking for external support to stop his gambling then you would be a fool to blindly trust him. It's a nice idea in theory. But it is an idea that will leave you with a millstone around your neck. The longer you trust him and support him the deeper into debt you are getting him, and by extension yourself.

Of course, if he puts his hands up and commits to stopping, self excludes, gives you full access to and full control of all his finances, goes to Gamblers Anonymous and is sincere in his efforts to stop completely and clear his own debts which will involve talking to banks, credit card companies, possibly companies he has unpaid bills with, friends and family he has borrowed from etc. then there might be a time where you can trust him again. This isn't a problem that will be sorted with him saying "I promise I won't gamble anymore".

Until he is prepared to do all that, there is nothing you can do for him. All you can do is start to protect yourself and get as much information as you can about the world you are now in.

I know the symptoms of addiction.
Anybody I know who has got over any addiction had only gotten through it with the love and support of a partner.

Ursus Horribilis

I've a friend who worked for a well known gambling company for a while. Not in a shop but in customer service. Needless to say she has lots of stories to tell about problematic gambling and none of them make for pleasant listening. To a certain extent, gambling in a relationship is like a never ending game of cat and mouse.

I'm not somebody who immediately jumps for the "Dump him" option but I think you need to seriously consider what you're getting yourself into here. There are lots of alcoholics and drug addicts and gamblers out there who are very nice people. But who make for dreadful life partners. Unless this guy genuinely wants to stop gambling and takes concrete steps to do so, you're in for a bumpy ride. I think you need to gather as much first hand information as you can about gambling. That means talking to (not googling) people who've been there, done that, worn the t-shirt. I think you'll find it insightful.

Big Bag of Chips

I also know addicts who had all the love and support they could possibly need and it wasn't enough. I have a family member who has lost his wife, children, home, many of his friends and even his own family are starting to turn away because they realise unless he is serious about stopping, all the love and support in the world isn't going to make any difference.

Of course addicts need the love and support of their loved ones to overcome addiction. But first and foremost THEY need to make the very conscious decision to stop. If that decision is never made, then it's a fools errand to love and support them in a non-existent recovery.

Mod Edit:
Please do not quote lengthy replies, Charles Ingles. It clogs the thread with duplicate text.

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

Notuser18 wrote: »

Close the joint account for a start and take back what money is yours before he gets it. You're going to need to walk away eventually if he won't get help.

Or if there is a delay in closing account stop putting money in it

dellas1979

cannotlogin wrote: »

You are a far bigger gambler than him.

You are risking your entire future on a guy with a huge problem.

I think this hits the nail on the head.

I think you are beyond nuts if you want to try and take out a mortgage with a gambler. Nuts!

Do you realise you are setting yourself up for years of heartache both emotionally and financially? All for what, "love"? Love? This guy has told you he will walk away from you.

And I bet any money (sorry for the pun) he will twist it and make you feel bad, to devoid responsibility. You'll then try fix him/the situation...this story is as old as time OP.

What happens if by some miracle you and him get a joint mortgage, and in 3 years time, he gambles everything away or walks away, or both, and you are left with a hefty mortgage. Where will love get you then? Banks dont take that as a reason.

Its time for you to look after yourself. If you dont know how to do that (and I think you dont), I would advise you to talk to a councellor.

Ursus Horribilis

Boyfriend Problems Gambling wrote: »

He has been in debt with loans before but thankfully this is all now clear.

How do you know this for sure? Have you got paperwork to prove this? And while we're on that note, what was his track record for making repayments like? As far as I know, it takes 6 years for missed payments to roll off a person's Irish Credit Bureau record.

Him admitting he has a problem isn't some sort of significant revelation either. He has no other option, seeing as you're trying to save for a deposit. I woudn't read too much into him getting upset either. Getting upset and talking about breaking up are easy options. Going to Gambler's Anonymous would mean taking steps on the road to never placing another bet ever again. It doesn't sound like he's anywhere near that stage. Maybe he never will get there. Despite the debt, his finances coming under scrutiny, the steps you've taken to try and stop gambling and your future plans. What do you think it would take to stop him, seeing as what he has isn't enough?