Licence Renewal with pending charges

1shot16

Hi guys,

Long time being on here but wondering if anyone would have an idea or could help me or has been in a similar situation before.Got into a bit of bother a few weeks ago and wondering if you can help me,

I have had my rifle renewal come through the door and I currently have a charge pending against me section 2 of criminal justice drugs trafficking act 1996 which I was detained and questioned and will be charged in coming months.I know this does not look good but firearms were stored at different location to address that I was living at and the address that was searched!Im big into my shooting and just made a mistake but back on the right track now!They asked about if I go shooting when detained etc and seemed not to take much interest other than the case on hand.

Wondering if anyone who has been charged with that or similar offences has had licences granted or revoked and what is the likely hood of getting my licence renewal and should I explain my situation.
I've had firearms for last few years and never got into bother before so wondering if I will ever be able to renew or apply for a licence again,Thanks,1shot16.

Cass

Some of what i say may seem pedantic, but you asked so i'll cover all bases.

1shot16 wrote: »

I have had my rifle renewal come through the door and I currently have a charge pending against me..........................

Wondering if anyone who has been charged with that or similar offences has had licences granted or revoked and what is the likely hood of getting my licence renewal and should I explain my situation.

The FCR renewal?

In section 3.4, as with the FCA1, it asks if you have any charges against you or pending charges. You say you have charges pending. Have you been actually been charged or is that you saying charges are coming down the line?

If you have been charged you answer yes, and you explain on a separate piece of paper the details of the charges. If you have not been charged at the time of filling in the FCR then you answer no. Only you can know which to choose, but be honest as they [AGS] will know.

I know this does not look good but firearms were stored at different location to address that I was living at and the address that was searched!

Here is the pedantic bit.

Did you declare the address where the guns were stored as your home address? I only ask because if the guns are stored at an address other than the "home" address you supplied on your FCA1 or anywhere you did not declare it may cause other legal problems. Granted with how you opened this thread, this could be a smaller issue, just an FYI.

Im big into my shooting and just made a mistake but back on the right track now!

Yeeeaaaahhhhhhh......................

You are very unclear as to the details, and frankly you should keep it that way for the sake of your own privacy, but you say you have charges pending and then say you will be charged in the coming weeks/months.

You also say this only happened a few weeks back.

I've news for you. You are not on the right track, you are slap bang at the start of the wrong track. Your troubles are only starting and it may take up to or over a year before this whole mess, and your subsequent fate, are decided/revealed.

That is not a "Ooooooo, beware of the boogeyman" scare tactic. Its a fact. The time to "be on the right track" was before you acted to get into this position. I might sound like i'm pontificating, and i suppose i am, but as a firearm owner you must be beyond reproach.

They asked about if I go shooting when detained etc and seemed not to take much interest other than the case on hand.

As i said above, you are at the start of your troubles. You may find a knock on the door with a letter of revocation for your firearm(s), or you may not. That will be up to the Super, and the wheels can turn slowly.

This is why i bring up the point about your address.

I've had firearms for last few years and never got into bother before so wondering if I will ever be able to renew or apply for a licence again,Thanks,1shot16.

Having been charged or having charges pending does not automatically disqualify you from firearm ownership, but you MUST declare everything and be honest and open. An Gardaí will already know so trying to "cute" or holding back anything will only serve to hurt you, not help you.

Will your renewal be successful? Who knows. It's a decision that is up to the Super and if ten lads answer you here that have been in the exact same position none of what happened to them is relevant to you as each case is it's own. Meaning if all ten of them kept their guns, you may still loose yours. No one can tell you if you'll be fine. If anyone says you will be, they're lying to you.

Grizzly 45

Really up to you Superintendent now at this time,as to whether he thinks you are a suitable person or not.
As what you do,I think you need to be asking your lawyer or breif depending on the seriousness of the charge.But TBH I think you can kiss them good bye as anything on the misuse of drugs act carries penalties of crimes over 30days sentenceing,which is usually a disqualifier for life.

1shot16

Hello,

Thanks for the reply class,

Yes it's a renewal cass and ur correct in saying charges will be coming down the line and I won't be posting more details as you said... ur right in saying it will be the start of my troubles but in this situation!

It most likely the start of my troubles with owning and applying for firearms in the future!That's fair and I will be honest with them and will have to declare pending charges as requested!

Firearms were stored and were always kept at declared address so that won't be a problem!

Each to their own but was hoping someone in a similar situation could advice me of their experiences!Not looking good anyways!I guess u have to think before you make mistakes but it's time to move on in my books now!

Thanks!

Cass

A close friend of mine went through , kinda similar, trouble about three years back. He had a screaming match on the doorstep of a neighbor and because the neighbour complained the guy was charged with breach of the peace, went to court, and was bound to the peace for two years.

Not anything as serious as what you seem to be facing, but he kept his guns after an interview with the Super.

I've also had a Cousin have all three of his firearms revoked because he was separating from his wife. She complained to AGS about him having guns (not threatening her or anyone, just having them) and they removed them. After three years he finally got one license back and to this day still hasn't gotten more than a shotgun license.

So as i said above nobody can tell you what will happen. If you missed the bit here it is again:

It's a decision that is up to the Super and if ten lads answer you here that have been in the exact same position none of what happened to them is relevant to you as each case is it's own. Meaning if all ten of them kept their guns, you may still loose yours. No one can tell you if you'll be fine. If anyone says you will be, they're lying to you.

rugerfanatic

I'm surprised you still have a firearm/s.

Seen guns lifted for less!

The pigeon man

Cass wrote: »

A close friend of mine went through , kinda similar, trouble about three years back. He had a screaming match on the doorstep of a neighbor and because the neighbour complained the guy was charged with breach of the peace, went to court, and was bound to the peace for two years.

I thought if you're bound to the peace you're automatically disentitled from holding a firearm and the superintendent has no discretion.

solarwinds

There was a case in the west recently where a young lad who initially avoided a fight, then defended himself. The charges were all dropped and he thought no more of it.
Then came his renewal, it was not granted based on his quick temper and resorting to violence. It went to court and the judge threw it out telling the Chief that one incident were no charges were brought and no conviction arose did not justify revoking his licence.
Thats the general gist of it anyway.
My point is that in the last 2 years I have heard of the AGS looking for any excuse no matter how small to not grant a licence. So best of luck with your situation.
And on a personal note, no good has ever come from any involvement, no matter how small, with drugs there is no winners it just ends up ruining peoples lives and unfortunately you could now be treated the same as the gangsters shooting up our streets.

Vizzy

solarwinds wrote: »

My point is that in the last 2 years I have heard of the AGS looking for any excuse no matter how small to not grant a licence. So best of luck with your situation.
And on a personal note, no good has ever come from any involvement, no matter how small, with drugs there is no winners it just ends up ruining peoples lives and unfortunately you could now be treated the same as the gangsters shooting up our streets.

^^^^^^^^
This.

Know of a case recently where a guy had been getting all sorts of hassle from a neighbour, to the extent that the neighbour had called to the door shouting abuse.
Guy lost his temper, told the neighbour to "f**k off or I'll kill ya" ( or words to that effect).
20 mins later, guns seized !!

Can't really blame the Gardaí to be fair.

He got them back after a few months cos the neighbour was "known to the Gardaí" but still you need to be hyper conscious of what you say and more particularly what you do.
Best of luck OP.

Cass

The pigeon man wrote: »

I thought if you're bound to the peace you're automatically disentitled from holding a firearm and the superintendent has no discretion.

Correct, section 8(e) of the principal act.

( e ) any person who is bound by a recognisance to keep the peace or be of good behaviour, a condition of which is that the person shall not possess, use or carry any firearm or ammunition,

So one of two things have happened:

1. I got the term wrong, and the person did not sign a peace bond or have to keep to the peace.
2. Based on past history, the lack of actual violence (no punches thrown), and it being more of a community/civil matter that should never have seen the inside of a court (as told to him by an Inspector) they deemed him to be of good enough character to not revoke the licenses.

Whether that is within their remit, i simply don't know. The only "good" thing is this happened a few year back and any such order is now void/expired.

LONG DRAG

Vizzy wrote: »

^^^^^^^^
This.

Know of a case recently where a guy had been getting all sorts of hassle from a neighbour, to the extent that the neighbour had called to the door shouting abuse.
Guy lost his temper, told the neighbour to "f**k off or I'll kill ya" ( or words to that effect).
20 mins later, guns seized !!

Can't really blame the Gardaí to be fair.





He got them back after a few months cos the neighbour was "known to the Gardaí" but still you need to be hyper conscious of what you say and more particularly what you do.
Best of luck OP.

Ok the best bit of advice I can give you is this

If you think your firearms are going to be lifted by the Guards, YOU hand the firearms into a Rfd that you know volintery, does this make a difference yes big time, much easier to get firearms back this way when the dust settles.

Grizzly 45

I've also had a Cousin have all three of his firearms revoked because he was separating from his wife. She complained to AGS about him having guns (not threatening her or anyone, just having them) and they removed them. After three years he finally got one license back and to this day still hasn't gotten more than a shotgun license.

Seems to be another hazard of parting ways with your better half these days.Know of at least a half dozen cases of such over the years. Best thing to do folks in that situation is starting is move them to storage out of the house into an RFD.It's an extra hassle I know of having to collect and drop back if you are going shooting.BUT it will draw one dragons tooth,in the fact you have them out of the situation, you can still shoot as your liscenses arent revoked,and with the RFD recipt can prove that your better half is lying if they come up this idea post removal date.

Cass

LONG DRAG wrote: »

If you think your firearms are going to be lifted by the Guards, YOU hand the firearms into a Rfd that you know volintery, does this make a difference yes big time, much easier to get firearms back this way when the dust settles.

Somewhat irrelevant in the case of revocation of license(s). Whether they are in storage or in a Garda station the licenses are gone.

It's still your property, and yes i'd rather have them stored in an RFD than at a Garda station, but again you'll not be seeing them too soon if the licenses are pulled.

LONG DRAG

Cass wrote: »

Somewhat irrelevant in the case of revocation of license(s). Whether they are in storage or in a Garda station the licenses are gone.

It's still your property, and yes i'd rather have them stored in an RFD than at a Garda station, but again you'll not be seeing them too soon if the licenses are pulled.

Handing in a Firearm voluntarily, or having firearms seized by the State, if this goes to court you are in a stronger position in the eyes of the law.if its handed in.

Cass

If the gun licenses are never revoked then yes storing them in the RFDs is best as you can simply collect them when the court case is over, however if the licenses are not revoked then storing them in an RFDs is redundant as the Gardaí never intended to revoke the licenses and seize the guns.

The Gardaí "seize" guns in two instances:

1. Illegal and caught when doing a raid.
2. The licenses are revoked or being revoked from a legit firearm owner.

Case one doesn't interest us.

Case two has only one outcome. The removal of the guns, for whatever reasons, from the licensed person. Gardaí sometimes store these in a local dealers or sometimes in their station.

The guns remain your property even without a license. The license grants you permission to carry/possess them, not own them. Your ownership is implied and cannot be taken from you. We covered this before when there was take of removing gun licenses for certain types of firearms without a state payment scheme and how the Minister at the time did not understand the difference between ownership and possession.

If you surrender your guns on the basis you know they will be seized/licenses revoked and it comes up during a court hearing on another matter the court may well revoke the licenses, but usually it's the Super that will do it.

This revocation may come before, during or after the court case, and then again it may not come at all. Which bring us back to storing them in an RFD as being redundant.

I'm actually not disagreeing with you, merely saying regardless of where they are stored if the Gardaí are going to revoke your licenses,barring you hide them on the moon, they'll get them.

Grizzly 45

Dont forget,the revocation must be in WRITING laying out the reasons for such. There is a big difference between pulling them out of your house because you are having a tiff with the missus /neighbours,and offically revoking them because of some sort of criminal/mental instability act. In fact,in the former,it could be argued that a Super would be on thin ice ,sending in people to grab your guns,because someone said you were unstable or threatning,and a genuine concern with hard evidence of wrong doing.
After all,if you wanted to do in the better half,you dont need a firearm as we have seen in cases around the country in the last decade.I mean what next???Someone knows you have guns and rings the Gardai and says you are going to head off to the local schoolyard,so they send the ERU around???It's called "SWATting" in the US and has lead to innocent deaths as well as thankfully severe jail time for the people who made the calls.

Cadpat_cowboy

1shot16 wrote: »

Hello,

Thanks for the reply class,

Yes it's a renewal cass and ur correct in saying charges will be coming down the line and I won't be posting more details as you said... ur right in saying it will be the start of my troubles but in this situation!

It most likely the start of my troubles with owning and applying for firearms in the future!That's fair and I will be honest with them and will have to declare pending charges as requested!

Firearms were stored and were always kept at declared address so that won't be a problem!

Each to their own but was hoping someone in a similar situation could advice me of their experiences!Not looking good anyways!I guess u have to think before you make mistakes but it's time to move on in my books now!

Thanks!

Obviously case to case is different a Co worker of mine had an empty bag is his car thst contained cannibis residue (crystals) not enough to smoke but enough to be tested and come back positively for drugs. He went to the Garda station and talked to the officer who caught him at the request of the local fo, but still ended up in court. The judge threw the case out due to the fact the lad wasn't 21 and had lost both perents in less then 12 months. He lost his shotgun licence for it as the go said the local super won't put his name to anybody caught with/using drugs.

I hope all goes well for you in the future and this was of some help man. Call your fo and see what they say might give you an indication if you should move your guns to a gun shop for storage save them ending up seized.

meathstevie

1shot16, I don't want to be pointing fingers and everyone is innocent until proven guilty but if you consider the situation yourself I think deep down you know what the conclusion is going to be.

When there are grounds to arrest and charge someone after a search under drug trafficking legislation the Superintendent will not have much of a choice in relation to a firearms licence.

Chiparus

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dont forget,the revocation must be in WRITING laying out the reasons for such. There is a big difference between pulling them out of your house because you are having a tiff with the missus /neighbours,and offically revoking them because of some sort of criminal/mental instability act. In fact,in the former,it could be argued that a Super would be on thin ice ,sending in people to grab your guns,because someone said you were unstable or threatning,and a genuine concern with hard evidence of wrong doing.
After all,if you wanted to do in the better half,you dont need a firearm as we have seen in cases around the country in the last decade.I mean what next???Someone knows you have guns and rings the Gardai and says you are going to head off to the local schoolyard,so they send the ERU around???It's called "SWATting" in the US and has lead to innocent deaths as well as thankfully severe jail time for the people who made the calls.

They sometimes do remove firearms on the basis of hearsay.

Grizzly 45

My point exactly...Heresay...Why many people ended up on bonfires in the 15th century accused of Witchcraft,because they had joined eyebwows or a wart on their face.:rolleyes: Same thing today if you are a gunowner it seems.