Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

Utah_Saint

bilston wrote: »

We've won the games you'd have expected us to win and we lost the one game I thought we might struggle in, albeit I didn't see us conceding 60 points.

Slow burn so far.

The Cardiff game wasn't great.

yeah - pretty much where i am at with it.

I am hoping to make the Clermont game. Should be a cracker. I would expect Nordi, Hendy and Stockdale back.

Paul Smeenus

I thought this was a brilliant article. It sounds like fascinating work, and it seems to be flying under the radar somewhat. A couple of years old, but thought-provoking. Made me think about Gatland winning his first 6 Nations with Wales with the Ospreys plus a couple of other players.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11928297

I bring it up because there’s probably not much more cohesion this season than last. McFarland has had a full pre-season with the team, so I’d imagine this season there will be more of a shift towards the way he wants to play. More technical and tactical stuff, whereas last season it was very much about this “fight for every inch” mentality. Roddy Grant is in as forwards coach, with some new ideas. So the idea that everything would just fall into place at the start of this season is probably a bit off the mark.

I’m going to put my head on the block and say that I don’t expect the first half of this season to be a significant kick on from last season, but that hopefully as the season runs on and our younger players – Lowry, O’Toole, McBurney, Hume, Curtis Sr, Rea Jr, Baloucoune, O’Sullivan – start amassing the playing minutes and – crucially – experience of playing together, we start to fire properly.

Carter and Faddes are still settling in. As is McGrath, but if he doesn’t start showing what we know he’s capable of (or what he has been in the past), then I wouldn’t be too horrified if he ends up second choice to O’Sullivan, who I think we’re all excited about.

Billy Burns has looked good at the start of this season. Interesting to see him get the captaincy last week. He is proving to be a seriously impressive proponent of the cross-field kick. With Gilroy, Stockdale and Baloucoune on the wings, it could quite a weapon in our arsenal.

Just idly flicking through the stats in the Pro14 website, three of the five top tacklers are Ulster players – O’Connor, Reidy and Rea. That bodes well . Not as glamorous as “Defenders Beaten” or “Metres Gained” (take a bow Luke Marshall) but that’s where we need to deliver – good, hard-working defence.

Looking more broadly, I’d expect us to be there or thereabouts in our conference this season. I imagine the Cheetahs will run very hot and cold. Certainly don’t expect them to do as well off the Highveld. And they’ve just swapped head coach - let’s see how Fourie does with them. If he’s smart, he won’t try to change too much initially. Glasgow have gotten off to a miserable start, and Rennie is supposedly off to Oz at the end of the season. Leinster are Leinster. Dragons seem to be improving.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I thought this was a brilliant article. It sounds like fascinating work, and it seems to be flying under the radar somewhat. A couple of years old, but thought-provoking. Made me think about Gatland winning his first 6 Nations with Wales with the Ospreys plus a couple of other players.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11928297

I bring it up because there’s probably not much more cohesion this season than last. McFarland has had a full pre-season with the team, so I’d imagine this season there will be more of a shift towards the way he wants to play. More technical and tactical stuff, whereas last season it was very much about this “fight for every inch” mentality. Roddy Grant is in as forwards coach, with some new ideas. So the idea that everything would just fall into place at the start of this season is probably a bit off the mark.

I’m going to put my head on the block and say that I don’t expect the first half of this season to be a significant kick on from last season, but that hopefully as the season runs on and our younger players – Lowry, O’Toole, McBurney, Hume, Curtis Sr, Rea Jr, Baloucoune, O’Sullivan – start amassing the playing minutes and – crucially – experience of playing together, we start to fire properly.

Carter and Faddes are still settling in. As is McGrath, but if he doesn’t start showing what we know he’s capable of (or what he has been in the past), then I wouldn’t be too horrified if he ends up second choice to O’Sullivan, who I think we’re all excited about.

Billy Burns has looked good at the start of this season. Interesting to see him get the captaincy last week. He is proving to be a seriously impressive proponent of the cross-field kick. With Gilroy, Stockdale and Baloucoune on the wings, it could quite a weapon in our arsenal.

Just idly flicking through the stats in the Pro14 website, three of the five top tacklers are Ulster players – O’Connor, Reidy and Rea. That bodes well . Not as glamorous as “Defenders Beaten” or “Metres Gained” (take a bow Luke Marshall) but that’s where we need to deliver – good, hard-working defence.

Looking more broadly, I’d expect us to be there or thereabouts in our conference this season. I imagine the Cheetahs will run very hot and cold. Certainly don’t expect them to do as well off the Highveld. And they’ve just swapped head coach - let’s see how Fourie does with them. If he’s smart, he won’t try to change too much initially. Glasgow have gotten off to a miserable start, and Rennie is supposedly off to Oz at the end of the season. Leinster are Leinster. Dragons seem to be improving.

Burns has started very well, as had Hume, but that injury looked quite bad.

Marshall is going pretty well but still can't really pass! Gilroy is doing what he does, scoring tries.

The pack have been ok, Treadwell seems to stand out to me quite a lot and Coetzee is a level, maybe two levels, above anyone else in the forwards. Agree McGrath hasn't done much yet, early days though, Faddes had his best game on Friday for us playing 13 for 79 minutes so maybe that is where he should be focusing on.

Still not at the level we were towards the end of last season, but I suppose we don't have to be. Zebre at home then Munster away to come where I guess Stockdale, Henderson and Murphy will return and then all roads lead to Bath where we will have to up our level a few gears.

I'm not panicking yet, but there is definite room for improvement.

jacothelad

Adding Stockdale, Henderson, Murphy, Marty Moore, Baloucoune, Lyttle, Herring and McCloskey et al into the mix will give us another boost. Unfortunately Ulster don't have a few huge, vicious bastards to bring in to the pack. That is where our weakness lies.


I noticed in the Ireland 7s squad that Sexton isn't named. If he isn't getting used there he should be at least training with the Ulster squad.

Squidgy Black

Rory's playing for the BaaBaas in Twickenham next month

Paul Smeenus

jacothelad wrote: »

Adding Stockdale, Henderson, Murphy, Marty Moore, Baloucoune, Lyttle, Herring and McCloskey et al into the mix will give us another boost. Unfortunately Ulster don't have a few huge, vicious bastards to bring in to the pack. That is where our weakness lies.


I noticed in the Ireland 7s squad that Sexton isn't named. If he isn't getting used there he should be at least training with the Ulster squad.

Yeah - I excitedly looked up the 7s squad list last week... if he's not lining up for them, he should be training with the senior team - or should have featured for the As.

Paul Smeenus

Ulster Rugby 2019/20 Heineken Champions Cup Squad:

PROPS
Ross Kane
Kyle McCall
Jack McGrath
Marty Moore
Tommy O’Hagan
Eric O’Sullivan
Tom O’Toole
Callum Reid
Andy Warwick

HOOKERS
John Andrew
Rob Herring
Adam McBurney
Zack McCall

LOCK
Sam Carter
Iain Henderson
Alan O’Connor
Kieran Treadwell

BACKROW
Marcell Coetzee
Greg Jones
Jordi Murphy
David O’Connor
Matthew Rea
Marcus Rea
Sean Reidy
Clive Ross
Nick Timoney

SCRUMHALVES
John Cooney
David Shanahan
Jonny Stewart

OUTHALVES
Billy Burns
Bill Johnston

CENTRES
Angus Curtis
James Hume
Luke Marshall
Stuart McCloskey
WINGS
Robert Baloucoune
Matt Faddes
Craig Gilroy
Angus Kernohan
Rob Lyttle
Jacob Stockdale

FULLBACK
Will Addison
Michael Lowry
Louis Ludik


Obviously we can quibble about what positions players are primarily seen as. Callum Reid in, no Gareth Milasinovich.

Locke_Lamora

Ulster team to play Zebre Rugby Club, Guinness PRO14 Round 5, Friday 1 November at Kingspan Stadium (kick-off 7.35pm):

(15-9) Will Addison, Louis Ludik, Matt Faddes, Luke Marshall, Rob Lyttle, Bill Johnston, David Shanahan.
(1-8) Jack McGrath, Rob Herring (Capt.), Tom O'Toole, Alan O'Connor, Kieran Treadwell, Matthew Rea, Nick Timoney, Marcell Coetzee.
Replacements: Adam McBurney, Kyle McCall, Ross Kane, Sam Carter, Sean Reidy, John Cooney, Angus Curtis, Craig Gilroy.

Zebre were very good against Leinster. Line speed and intensity in defence were excellent, so we'll have to fight for this win and won't be able to switch off like we did against Cardiff. Hoping Johnston can really make the most of the game time he gets, and I'm looking forward to getting a look at Curtis at 10 as well - although he might see more time at centre with McCloskey and Hume out. Hopefully Lyttle can put in another good performance before his next scheduled injury break.

Paul Smeenus

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

Ulster team to play Zebre Rugby Club, Guinness PRO14 Round 5, Friday 1 November at Kingspan Stadium (kick-off 7.35pm):

(15-9) Will Addison, Louis Ludik, Matt Faddes, Luke Marshall, Rob Lyttle, Bill Johnston, David Shanahan.
(1-8) Jack McGrath, Rob Herring (Capt.), Tom O'Toole, Alan O'Connor, Kieran Treadwell, Matthew Rea, Nick Timoney, Marcell Coetzee.
Replacements: Adam McBurney, Kyle McCall, Ross Kane, Sam Carter, Sean Reidy, John Cooney, Angus Curtis, Craig Gilroy.

Zebre were very good against Leinster. Line speed and intensity in defence were excellent, so we'll have to fight for this win and won't be able to switch off like we did against Cardiff. Hoping Johnston can really make the most of the game time he gets, and I'm looking forward to getting a look at Curtis at 10 as well - although he might see more time at centre with McCloskey and Hume out. Hopefully Lyttle can put in another good performance before his next scheduled injury break.

I hope we're not underestimating Zebre. No Burns if Johnston gets in trouble, and Curtis has played mostly at centre for us rather than ten. Like to see McBurney and Curtis step up a bit.

Locke_Lamora

I’d guess that this is pre-planned rotation. It might be tempting to flog Burns as he isn’t on international duty, but our other options need game time to get up to speed. Better to do this at the start of the year when other teams best players are missing, rather than having to play them at crunch time towards the end of the season due to injuries.

On Curtis, I think he’ll have been playing 10 in training just as much as centre. Coaches must have known that Lowry and Johnston are liable to be injured for extended periods.

Fun team and good opposition, looking forward to it.

awec

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I hope we're not underestimating Zebre. No Burns if Johnston gets in trouble, and Curtis has played mostly at centre for us rather than ten. Like to see McBurney and Curtis step up a bit.

Hopefully McBurney has a big breakthrough season. Really like the cut of his jib. Just needs to cut down on the penalties.

Gave Johnny Sexton a bit of a seeing to in an Ireland camp so he's obviously the right sort.

bilston

I'm looking forward to seeing Bill Johnston starting at 10. I'm surprised Burns isn't on the bench though as protection.

Clegg

Did Addison go off with his arm in a sling?

jacothelad

Clegg wrote: »

Did Addison go off with his arm in a sling?

Yes. He slipped in the dung Ulster are spewing all over the pitch.

Hands Like Flippers

9 and 10 v poor.

bilston

Another scruffy performance tonight.

However Luke Marshall was head and shoulders above anyone else on the pitch. Rob Lyttle was impressive as well. We also saw how good Billy Burns is for Ulster tonight because of his absence. Johnston didn't do anything wrong, but Ulster's attacking shape was sharp enough tonight and I think some of that was down to the out half. I still think Johnston can be a big player us moving forward and again he wasn't poor tonight, he was as just ok.

I want to see more from Faddes...yes we see the odd really impressive highlight, but there is some bad stuff as well, we need more consistency.

Ultimately Ulster are winning the games they should win, but the big test will be the next three weeks...

Munster (a)
Bath (a)
Clermont (h)

A huge three weeks ahead.

Oh, and our receipt of restarts are shambolic!

Locke_Lamora

We do a lot wrong and we're very limited in certain areas, but the team still manages to do enough to make me want to watch again next weekend.

I was fine with how Johnston played, he was making the right passes and moving it wide at the right times which is good enough at this stage. Coetzee phenomenal as usual. Lyttle is a baller, and perhaps an underrated skill of his is how his kicks through always have good depth and straddle the touchline. He doesn't have the top end speed to consistently win the ball back, but it puts the defence under a lot of pressure. Thought Rea really stepped up tonight and put himself about well enough. Scrum went surprisingly well - O'Toole certainly fairing better than last year, possibly because he looks to have gained a bit of weight.

bilston

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

We do a lot wrong and we're very limited in certain areas, but the team still manages to do enough to make me want to watch again next weekend.

I was fine with how Johnston played, he was making the right passes and moving it wide at the right times which is good enough at this stage. Coetzee phenomenal as usual. Lyttle is a baller, and perhaps an underrated skill of his is how his kicks through always have good depth and straddle the touchline. He doesn't have the top end speed to consistently win the ball back, but it puts the defence under a lot of pressure. Thought Rea really stepped up tonight and put himself about well enough. Scrum went surprisingly well - O'Toole certainly fairing better than last year, possibly because he looks to have gained a bit of weight.

Agree Coetzee was good.

I'm not sure Shanahan had a great game, it is difficult to tell from my seat why Ulster are struggling to generate quick ball, but there were definitely missed opportunities out there tonight due to the wrong option being taken or the ball being too slow.

Mention for Angus Curtis when he came on, he gave us a bit more bite in midfield, but tonight was probably the sort of night where ideally you'd have McCloskey smashing it up the middle. Hopefully he will be ready for Bath and Clermont.

Squidgy Black

Johnston was always going to be under a bit more pressure with Dave inside of him considering it was his first start, ideally you'd like to have your best 9 inside a young outhalf for support but I'm glad to hear it wasn't a bad performance. I reckon with time he could be a decent option if Burns doesn't turn out to be the real deal.

It'll be interesting to see if he gets more chances throughout the season, seemed like there was a real reluctance to give McPhillips game time other than when necessary last year but that may have been down to other factors.

Hands Like Flippers

Ulster played the territory game poorly for the most part. DS offers no control from 9 and gave no quick ruck ball all evening (other reasons also but he is far too ponderous) and only kicked slow box kicks. There were quite a few deep kicks on but he didn't even look.

BJ didn't win territory either. The best kicks for territory were from LM, CG and RL. The Zebre 10 was much better at it. DS definitely hurt his performance.

Of course it is great to play a lovely running game with ball in hand but it was more of a night for controlling the game which is why Zebre were better for a lot of it.

Marshall could have finished both those try opportunities.

MF makes a lot of errors. Has good moments but makes a lot of errors for an overseas signing IMHO. I've seen this in all 3 games I've gone to this year. I hope we aren't banking on him as a starter for the big games. Misses a lot of tavkles as well. Was great under the high ball on a v wet night though.

Hands Like Flippers

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Johnston was always going to be under a bit more pressure with Dave inside of him considering it was his first start, ideally you'd like to have your best 9 inside a young outhalf for support but I'm glad to hear it wasn't a bad performance. I reckon with time he could be a decent option if Burns doesn't turn out to be the real deal.

It'll be interesting to see if he gets more chances throughout the season, seemed like there was a real reluctance to give McPhillips game time other than when necessary last year but that may have been down to other factors.

Agreed.

Interesting though when JC came on for the last 10 mins BJ was screaming at him to go wide in our half and JC took a look and kicked deep instead. He will have learnt a lot.

V disappointed we didn't get bonus try especially when their 7 was in the bin for the last 10. We just weren't good enough.

Digifriendly

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Agreed.

Interesting though when JC came on for the last 10 mins BJ was screaming at him to go wide in our half and JC took a look and kicked deep instead. He will have learnt a lot.

V disappointed we didn't get bonus try especially when their 7 was in the bin for the last 10. We just weren't good enough.

Think I'm right in saying that Zebre had 3 yellow cards in the second half. If that is correct they played with 14 men for 30 out of 40 minutes so we really should have secured the BP. Dreadful night for watching and I was glad I had my waterproofs on. Tough next few weeks ahead so we have to step up a gear or two especially for Europe.

Paul Smeenus

Hume out for four months, hamstring. Addison not as badly hurt as feared, outside chance he might make it for Saturday. Ludik following return-to-play protocols.

No idea how the backline runs out against Munster, then. Cooney - Burns - Stockdale - Curtis - Marshall - Gilroy - Faddes?

Utah_Saint

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Hume out for four months, hamstring. Addison not as badly hurt as feared, outside chance he might make it for Saturday. Ludik following return-to-play protocols.

No idea how the backline runs out against Munster, then. Cooney - Burns - Stockdale - Curtis - Marshall - Gilroy - Faddes?

That would be my pick also. Although they might keep the Internationals out of action until Europe.

bilston

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Hume out for four months, hamstring. Addison not as badly hurt as feared, outside chance he might make it for Saturday. Ludik following return-to-play protocols.

No idea how the backline runs out against Munster, then. Cooney - Burns - Stockdale - Curtis - Marshall - Gilroy - Faddes?

Disappointing news about Hume.

Any news on Balacoune or Lowry?

You could stick Gilroy at 15 with Faddes and Marshall in the centre and Lyttle and Stockdale on the wing.

Hands Like Flippers

bilston wrote: »

Disappointing news about Hume.

Any news on Balacoune or Lowry?

You could stick Gilroy at 15 with Faddes and Marshall in the centre and Lyttle and Stockdale on the wing.

Faddes better at 15. Too many errors at 13.

Clegg

Ulster team named. Not a single home grown player in the pack. We know Ulster have a problem up front. But seeing the line up hammers it home. Doing much better with the backs though.

15. Matt Faddes
14. Rob Lyttle
13. Luke Marshall
12. Stuart McCloskey
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Angus Curtis
9. John Cooney

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rob Herring (captain)
3. Marty Moore
4. Alan O’Connor
5. Sam Carter
6. Sean Reidy
7. Jordi Murphy
8. Nick Timoney.

molloyjh

Clegg wrote: »

Ulster team named. Not a single home grown player in the pack. We know Ulster have a problem up front. But seeing the line up hammers it home. Doing much better with the backs though.

15. Matt Faddes
14. Rob Lyttle
13. Luke Marshall
12. Stuart McCloskey
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Angus Curtis
9. John Cooney

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rob Herring (captain)
3. Marty Moore
4. Alan O’Connor
5. Sam Carter
6. Sean Reidy
7. Jordi Murphy
8. Nick Timoney.

Only 4 in the XV overall if I'm not mistaken. Stockdale, McCloskey, Marshall and Lyttle? That's not a good look.

Still that's a decent pack and the outside backs are good too. Should hopefully mean a good game.

Paul Smeenus

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Eric O’Sullivan, Tom O’Toole, Kieran Treadwell, Matthew Rea, David Shanahan, Bill Johnston, Robert Baloucoune.

8 native Ulstermen overall, 13 Academy products.

Wonder are McBurney and O'Toole passing their older, less talented peers? Delighted to see Rob B back.

bilston

The biggest talking point is Angus Curtis at 10. He has looked impressive off the bench at 12. Will be interesting.

However is Burns injured?