Two marriage breakups in my family - I’m overwhelmed by siblings difficulties.

LegacyUser

Apologies in a advance for the length of this post. I’m in urgent need of advice as my stress levels are extremely high.

Two of my siblings have broken up from their partners in the last 2 years.

Sibling A had an affair which resulted in the breakup of their marriage. Their spouse is now happy in a new relationship. My sibling’s affair/relationship frizzled our very quickly as soon as their marriage ended and they became single. They've been on their own for the last 11 months.

Sibling B’s marriage ended because both parties fell out of love. It ended amicably. They’re on very good terms with their ex. However my sibling is grieving the loss of their relationship.

There are children involved in both breakups and both siblings have custody of children from Mon - Friday. Their formers partners take the children at weekends.

I’ve tried to be equally supportive to both by being a listening ear and giving practical help as and when required.

Up until 2 months ago I tried to divide my time equally but for the sake of my
The difference between sibling A & B is both are suffering but B wants to improve their lot. Sibling B is very appreciative of any help they receive from anyone and even though they are going through a difficult time they don’t feel the need to drag everyone else down.

I’ve often spent 4 or 5 hours listening to sibling A and offering advice only to repeat the process and offer the same advice a few days later.

Since the breakup, I’ve been regularly subjected to jibes from sibling A about how fortune I am to have an easy life - a good relationship, nice job, a home, car etc If I go away for a weekend or do up my house I’m made pay for it. It’s like sibling A wants me to feel guilty for anything good in my life even though I work very hard for everything I have.

During every conversation I have with Sibling A they tell me how awful their life is and I feel so guilty. I am conscious that they’re lonely so I take them out some weekend nights for dinner and a few drinks but it’s a few hours of misery. They spend the entire time moaning about their life. A night with sibling b is completely different, we have a good laugh and they’re excellent company.

I’m at the end of my tether with sibling A, I don’t want to abandon them but I’m worn out from their problems, their jibes and their complaints that I’m more supportive of sibling B. Am I being too hard on sibling a? Am I being selfish?

December2012

You need to give yourself care first.

Limit your time with your siblings stressing you out.

You don't have to put up with that rubbish, but you don't need to tell her off either. Just keep yourself busy, and take your own time.

Like really, does she need 4 hours of your time at a time?

Dial Hard

Why are you taking all of this on yourself in the first place is the real question??? I come from a *very* close family and have been through a marriage break-up myself but I would never have expected anyone in my family to be there for 4-5 hour counselling sessions on a regular basis. Yes, I cried and grieved and what if-ed and if only-ed and all the rest and they were there for me but what you're describing is excessive, imo.

You need to take a step back from both situations. Is Sibling A in counselling? It sounds like she needs it. A marriage breakdown is essentially a bereavement and she will go through the Kubler-Ross grieving process. You should by all means be there for her and support her but at a certain remove; you don't need to be part of the process.

ginandtonicsky

It sounds like Sibling A has a serious victim complex. With all due respect, they had an affair and caused the end of their marriage, so I think this "poor me" act is a bit rich tbh. Actions have consequences, and they have directly caused their own current circumstances.

I think you need to roll back on your contact with them to preserve your own sanity. Their predicament isn't your fault, and it sounds like you've become a bit of a crutch which may well be enabling this rut they're in and refusing to get out of. Making yourself less available and recommending a good counsellor as a next step towards helping themselves would be my advice.

Big Bag of Chips

Sibling A is obviously fundamentally a selfish person. They always want more than they have, or want what they perceive others have. It's why they had an affair, and it's why they now take up so much of your time. They don't want to put in the effort to get things, they want it handed upto them. Immediate gratification.

That's not your problem. I have a number of siblings. Ones single parent. 1 living in social housing, 2 who are selfemployed. None of us look to the others bemoaning what we have/haven't compared to them. We've all followed different paths and have all ended up where we are. It's nobody else's job to improve our lot if we're not happy. That's up to us, personally.

Limit your time with sibling A. You seem very over invested in their lives. Be busy. Stop bringing them out and paying for drinks and meals. There is now an expectation that you will provide for them. And they also will never be grateful. So put a stop to that. You'll probably get the guilt trip for a while but they are an adult, and as such are responsible for their own life.

Ursus Horribilis

Being a shoulder to cry on is fine if it's a short-term thing and/or you can see a path ahead (i.e. Sibling . In the case of Sibling A, you being there for them is more of a hindrance than a help at this stage. It's coming up to a year since their marriage broke up and they seem to be trapped in a cycle of self-pity.

If you think Sibling A still needs someone to talk to, you should suggest to them that they need to see a professional counsellor. There are two reasons for this. The first is that they'll be qualified to talk to someone like your sibling - you're not. The second is that you're too close to the situation. Your sibling may need to talk to a person who has no investment in their story. Someone who can see their issues from an outside perspective and will have different insights. More to the point - somebody who'll go toe to toe with them and challenge them. That's not something you can do successfully - it needs an outsider.

You've gone over and above what any family member should go through and it's definitely time to step back. You're not being selfish at all. In fact, you've probably neglected your own private life because of this drama. It's time to look after Number One again.

Qrt

Sibling A needs counselling and that’s that. You can’t do it all yourself! I’m going to counselling at the moment for life-related issues and it’s the best thing I’ve done in my life, she just listens and lets me pour everything out.

wiggle16

I've been a shoulder to cry on many a time, but for four hours in one go?? There isn't a counsellor on this Earth who would give a client a four hour session.

Your sibling is being incredibly demanding and selfish and you have inevitably burnt out. It's not fair on you and you have done more than your fair share for them at this stage. Besides, these four hour heart to hearts are obviously not helping if they are still going on like this.

As others have said, step back, limit your time with them, and when you do interact, talk about something else. I don't think there's any point in saying it directly to them as they don't sound like the kind of person who is going to appreciate anything but sympathy... you need to step back.

LegacyUser

Original poster here.

Sibling A has been seen by two different counsellors and they left counseling as they weren’t happy with either counselor. I recommended accessing a new counsellor under their Employee Assistance Programme but they seem reluctant to do this.

A number of posters have questioned my involvement/over involvement in sibling A’s life. The answer is simple, they’ve very few people in their life who are willing to give them the time of day.

Sibling A lives next to their former in laws, they used to assist with childcare during the marriage but understandably they have withdrawn all assistance and are extremely hostile now. Neighbours and most of their friends are the same.

I realize I need to take a step back for the sake of my mental health but I’m very concerned about sibling A’s welfare. They feel the world is against them and I’m consumed with guilt when I leave them alone. I’m afraid of what the future holds for them. I just can’t bring myself to walk away.

Rubberchikken

when it becomes obvious that no. matter what advice or time is given and nothing is changing, its time to step back.
you can only do so much. if this sibling wants to change anything they have to start the process themselves.

it is hard to see a family member going through a hard time but be there when you can but dont let them suck you into an endless spiral of time wasting and self pity.

Big Bag of Chips

There's a phrase.. You made your bed, now lie in it.

Your sibling had an affair that ended their marriage. They now have to live with the consequences of that. It doesn't surprise me that they've been to 2 counsellors and weren't happy with either. I would imagine the reason they were not happy was because the counsellor was exploring issues that made your sibling uncomfortable. Their own failings. Counselling isn't supposed to be easy. If it was, there would be no need for it.

In a way you are enabling the self-pity and "the whole word is is against me" attitude. You are allowing them to feel hard done by. Sometimes a little bit of tough love is needed. It doesn't surprise me that the in-laws are hostile. Your sibling sounds like a very selfish, very difficult person and I'd imagine had it been their spouse who had the affair and subsequently went around blaming everyone else and feeling like a poor victim your family would react similarly.

You came here looking for advice on how to handle this situation you've found yourself in. There is nothing you can do to change your sibling. All you can do is change yourself, how you act, react and what you're doing that isn't working.

If you don't take a step back and look after yourself then your sibling is just going to continue for the rest of their life moaning to you about how awful everything and everyone is. To be honest, they sound like the type of person who will do that regardless. You just have to decide do you still be the person who sits there listening to it all.

.......

You are not responsible for Sibling A.

Be clear that you will not accept being punished for having a nice life. And you will not endlessly go over and over the same ground with them.

I have a good friend who suffers with their mental health and will obsess and go over and over and over the same topics for hours on end if you let them. I simply tell her that Im not wasting time and energy facilitating her need to obsess, and that not only do I not enjoy it, but it is counter productive for her so either change the subject or Im leaving/hanging up/ending the conversation.

You are not actually helping Sibling A when you are always there for them no matter their behaviour, you are simply enabling unacceptable behaviour.

A great expression I once heard in Alanon is: its very hard to stand on your own two feet when you are always being propped up by someone else. Step back, let Sibling A find their own way, stop allowing them to dictate this negative contact.

valoren

Simply say "You're an unbearable pit of despair since you cheated on your partner. I love you to bits but don't go making me feel like crap or drag me down. I've listened to your crap long enough so stop it already because it's becoming intolerable".

A curt warning for your sibling to stop.

wiggle16

Sibling trouble wrote: »

Sibling A has been seen by two different counsellors and they left counseling as they weren’t happy with either counselor. I recommended accessing a new counsellor under their Employee Assistance Programme but they seem reluctant to do this.

Sounds like what they mean is that the counsellors weren't telling them what they wanted to hear. I don't mean to be harsh but if they can talk to you about it for hours on end but weren't happy with either counsellor then you're giving them something the counsellors are not.... and I'd suspect that's a sympathetic ear.

I'm not being judgemental, people have affairs for lots of different reasons, not every situation is the same - but at the end of the day they got themselves into this mess. It's their doing that their in-laws don't want to help out with childcare. It's their doing that they're struggling.

OP you're saying you can't walk away but whats the alternative?? You listen to them wallowing forever? It's already got to the point where it's affecting your life and your mood. "........" makes a good point about it being easy to stand up when someone is supporting you. They need to learn to do that themselves.

They're going to have to face up to what's happened and what they've done. They're not the victim here - they need to move on with their life. They can't do that if they are constantly rehashing the same stuff over and over again with you. I know you mean well but you're not helping them by indulging them.

LegacyUser

Original poster here again.

I’m thankful to all those who contributed to this thread.

It is scary how accurate some posters have been in their assessment of Sibling A. Yes, they dropped out of counseling because they felt the counselors were “lacking in empathy/sympathy”. Basically they didn’t like what they were hearing at all and that is probably why they’re so reluctant to try it again.

I’ve been very frank with Sibling A from the start. When they asked my opinion about the individual they were having the affair with. I told them that they weren’t half the person their spouse was and still is. Far wealthier yes, but they had none of their spouse’s integrity and decency. I feel so bad for their former spouse. I am glad they have found happiness again, they thoroughly deserve it.

Sibling A has suffered massively because of their affair, most would say they deserve it. They live in a very small rural area and they’re shunned by most people there. I live in a large urban centre and when I visit I feel like I’m stepping back into 1950’s Ireland. Extended family members such as aunts and uncles won’t talk to Sibling A. Our parents took the side of their ex and they are very embarrassed.

Sibling A is constantly comparing their breakup to Sibling B’s but the cases are so different. Sibling B and their former spouse remain very close friends. All of this and the disappointment of the affair/relationship fizzling out have taken their toll.

I’m trying to be supportive because I have genuine concerns that they might do something foolish in an attempt to get sympathy (a cry for help). Every time I create some distance I worry that something awful will happen and I’m not sure I could live with that. I don’t want to behave like an idiot but I don’t want my sibling to feel more isolated than they do already. I know I need to find a balance. I can’t go on minimizing my achievements or playing down my happy occasions forever. Thanks once again.

qwerty13

Things you can do without cutting them adrift:
- don’t have a set day to meet them every week, as then that just becomes expected/taken for granted
- don’t have unlimited time to spend with them. Have a reason lined up - work / a visitor / expecting a phone call
- don’t answer every call or text straight away. If they ask, just say ‘oh I was busy’
- make use of ‘there’s someone at the door’ if the phonecall is never ending
- meet halfway, rather than you going to them

I get the impression that these things won’t be easy for you, but you can be a support to them without letting them take so much of your time / emotions. They’re wallowing at the moment, and nothing is going to change while they continue to wallow. And you are making it easy for them to wallow. And this is dragging you down too. You sound like you’re doing this with the best will in the world, but you’re currently not helping either of you very much.

I hope things improve.

PS: I hope you aren’t paying for the dinner/drinks. Birthday or similar yeah, but don’t go down that route long term - by the sound of your sibling, they’ll just come to expect that, and it’s not nice to be taken for granted like that.

Can sibling B take any of the load off your shoulders? Or maybe the 3 of you meet up together?

PPS: just wondering if you can mix it up a bit to avoid the 4 hour ‘woe is me’ sessions. Could you go to the cinema, or some activity when you meet? Could your partner come with you sometimes? I think it would be good to break the habit of meeting you means a long pity-fest, and having your undivided attention for hours.

Ursus Horribilis

Sibling Troubles wrote: »

Sibling A has suffered massively because of their affair, most would say they deserve it. They live in a very small rural area and they’re shunned by most people there. I live in a large urban centre and when I visit I feel like I’m stepping back into 1950’s Ireland. Extended family members such as aunts and uncles won’t talk to Sibling A. Our parents took the side of their ex and they are very embarrassed.

Are you sure you're not projecting a bit here. You and your progressive city slicker ways looking down on backwards rural Ireland? If you want to follow this logic through to its conclusion, the ex's new relationship should be shunned too because they're committing adultery. No, your sibling is most likely not flavour of the month in the area because people (a) think a lot of their ex and (b) don't like your sibling or what they did. There's a difference. Maybe you've been listening to your sibling bellyache for too long. They're probably also manipulating you to a certain extent, to keep you guilted into listening to them.



What you could do is tell your sibling that you don't feel you're helping any more. All you're doing is going round and round in circles and your sibling is still at Square One. What is it they want from all of this? You listening to their "woe is me" tales for hours on end is not helping either of you. It's time to be frank with them. Did you ever quiz them on why they ditched their counsellors? Or what they expected from the counselling in the first place? I think we've all figured out why your sibling didn't get along with the counsellors but maybe it's something you could press them on. They're not there to go "Oh poor things".

ginandtonicsky

Is this a lifelong dynamic between you and Sibling A OP? It sounds like it may be, and that you've spent decades placating her and excusing her bad behaviour and picking up the pieces when it all inevitably goes pear-shaped.

If that's the case, it's really time to address your behaviour as invariably she learns nothing about herself from it and ends up repeating the same pattern of self-absorbed instant gratification I'll-do-whatever-the-hell-I-want knowing that you're there in the background to tell her "there there" when the consequences raise their ugly head.

I'd start with enacting some boundaries. Some great practical ways of doing that in the post at the top of this page. Cut off time to phone calls, be less available, all that stuff. Direct comments like "Sheila. We've had this conversation multiple times before. I'm not going to listen to it all again"

I feel like this fear that she'll do something awful is another manipulative move on her part, as terrible as she might be feeling, she knows your good nature and knows exactly what position she has you in and that's preventing any home truths from ever hitting home. Why listen to multiple counsellors who will call me on my bs when I've got a sibling with a sympathetic ear who knows how awful it all is for me at home. A shield from the judgement and harshness of the real world, where affairs will be judged and sides will be taken and a lot of damage control and personal reflection is required to learn your necessary lessons and become a more decent person.

Establish boundaries OP. It'll be the best thing you do for her in the long run.

LegacyUser

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Are you sure you're not projecting a bit here. You and your progressive city slicker ways looking down on backwards rural Ireland? If you want to follow this logic through to its conclusion, the ex's new relationship should be shunned too because they're committing adultery. No, your sibling is most likely not flavour of the month in the area because people (a) think a lot of their ex and (b) don't like your sibling or what they did. There's a difference.

OP here.

Apologies, I was in no way looking down on the rural area sibling A is living in. The point I was attempting to make was I live in a large urban centre which allows me a certain amount of anonymity. I know a few of my neighbours but only to exchange pleasantries. sibling A lives in a townland where most of the people living there are family and close friends of their ex. Sibling A is a complete blow in. I would completely agree that the neighbours feel that the ex got a bad deal and I would agree with that. I can understand why the neighbours are being distant and perhaps in time this will change.

qwerty13

Everything Ginandtonicsky said!

Funnily enough my post above was born of personal experience (which is why I said that I’d imagine not being always ‘available’ would be hard for you OP). And mine was a lifelong dynamic.

But the things I said are also as a result of going for counselling myself. And what has come up for me repeatedly is establishing boundaries in ‘how much of me’ I give to other people (well, certain people). I can see so much in your post OP that reminded me of myself. You are getting dragged down and stressed about this. It isn’t going to do you any good at all. And if your situation is anything like mine, you’ll keep giving, they’ll keep taking - and worse, they’ll expect more and more and think that you should put yourself out for them (and not only that you ‘should’ put them first - that it’s their ‘right’ for you to do so!).

For your own sake, you need to nip it in the bud. I understand how hard that may be, but you can start small and build up. You can do it OP - and you’ll feel so much better for it.

December2012

What makes you think your sibling is suicidal or would self harm?

ManOfMystery

Your sibling is caught in a loop of "Poor me" and experiencing a misplaced sense of victimisation for a change in life which they themselves caused.

I know your intentions are good, but by lending them an ear so often and allowing them to indulge in this relentless discussion of their downward spiral, you're effectively helping to perpetuate the loop. The cutting jibes about your own life are a separate issue IMO but do reinforce that they have a selfish streak where they can't be happy for others but focus only on what they want - or can't have, regardless of why.

It's time for some tough love. Stop indulging them. Limit your time with them, and control your interactions. They have to break out of this loop and see that it's not all about them. It is plain to see you care a lot for your sibling but sometimes you have to do things which may seem counter-intuitive to get through to those you care about.

jimd2

Sibling trouble wrote: »

Original poster here.

Sibling A has been seen by two different counsellors and they left counseling as they weren’t happy with either counselor. I recommended accessing a new counsellor under their Employee Assistance Programme but they seem reluctant to do this.

A number of posters have questioned my involvement/over involvement in sibling A’s life. The answer is simple, they’ve very few people in their life who are willing to give them the time of day.

Sibling A lives next to their former in laws, they used to assist with childcare during the marriage but understandably they have withdrawn all assistance and are extremely hostile now. Neighbours and most of their friends are the same.

I realize I need to take a step back for the sake of my mental health but I’m very concerned about sibling A’s welfare. They feel the world is against them and I’m consumed with guilt when I leave them alone. I’m afraid of what the future holds for them. I just can’t bring myself to walk away.

Things will not improve for sibling A if s/he continues to live beside the in laws.

jimd2

Also, if sibling A has the children from Monday to Friday this is going to have a terrible effect on them.

From a practical point of view I think that you should consider approaching his /her ex and seeing if a reconcilliation could be made on the behalf of the children - if your sibling cannot move perhaps some peace can be made in which your sibling apologises to the ex and in-laws and, at least, improve relationship to the betterment of the children.

But, in the longer term your sibling really needs to move on.

We all make mistakes but it sounds like sibling A made a pretty monumental one in having that affair and did not think through the consequences of it.

Going forward, I think your assistance should be more focused and practical and not as a sounding off block. Cur her off when the poor me stuff starts. Tell her you are here to help where you can but will not listen to a repeat of the whining or jealous comments about your life.

Ursus Horribilis

Sibling A's spouse is in a new relationship.

Dial Hard

Ursus Horribilis wrote:

Sibling A's spouse is in a new relationship.

I think they mean in relation to the family looking after the children.

The OP needs to be extricating themselves from the situation, though, not getting even more involved.

jimd2

Yes, I just meant to get some type of basic interaction / relationship to get some normality and also some more adult figures in the children's lives.

They are the innocent ones and probably suffering if their main adult influence is sibling A.

...Ghost...

Sister A is selfish and needy. She had an affair, destroyed her marriage and yet it's her ex that has weekend only access to his kids? Cut down the time you spend with that sister and stamp out the jibes now. You deserve respect and consideration for everything you have doine, but now you are just enabling her behaviour. Don't feel guilty for being happy.

Spend more time with Sister B. She seems to be stable and isn't sucking your energy levels dry. Keep your chin up OP. You can't fix people who don't want to lift a finger for themselves.

qwerty13

...Ghost... wrote: »

Sister A is selfish and needy. She had an affair, destroyed her marriage and yet it's her ex that has weekend only access to his kids? Cut down the time you spend with that sister and stamp out the jibes now. You deserve respect and consideration for everything you have doine, but now you are just enabling her behaviour. Don't feel guilty for being happy.

Spend more time with Sister B. She seems to be stable and isn't sucking your energy levels dry. Keep your chin up OP. You can't fix people who don't want to lift a finger for themselves.

While this is all true, I don’t think this is going to help the OP to deal with day to day stuff re sibling A. I’m not saying that to criticise your post; I’m saying that as I feel that I was in a similar situation. My feeling is that advising the OP to jump from zero to a strong reaction isn’t going to work. I do think small steps will work though. Might take some time to achieve that though.

...Ghost...

qwerty13 wrote: »

While this is all true, I don’t think this is going to help the OP to deal with day to day stuff re sibling A. I’m not saying that to criticise your post; I’m saying that as I feel that I was in a similar situation. My feeling is that advising the OP to jump from zero to a strong reaction isn’t going to work. I do think small steps will work though. Might take some time to achieve that though.

I appreciate where you are coming from and I have lots of personal experience in this situation. The OP is already highly stressed out and I think she needs to cut off the sympathy tap, as it is not helping anyone.

qwerty13

OP, have you any sounding board about this? Can you talk openly to your partner about it? I think it would be very telling for someone that knows both you and sibling A to give their opinion.