What size ammo is this?

BattleHardened

Sample cartridge:

https://ibb.co/tPT2YxT

The box the cartridges are in:

https://ibb.co/rFLj7Wm

They fit a single barrel shotgun. What caliber are these?

Cass

They are standard 12 gauge shotgun cartridges. Going by the box/picture they are 7.5s and trap cartidges which are generally used for clays, etc.

BattleHardened

Cass wrote: »

They are standard 12 gauge shotgun cartridges. Going by the box/picture they are 7.5s and trap cartidges which are generally used for clays, etc.

This is what is confusing me. Is the calibre 12 or 7.5? I need to fill it in on my gun license renewal application form.

The pigeon man

If those cartridges fit in your gun properly it's a 12 gauge shotgun. Write 12 gauge on the renewal form.

It might be helpful to attend a course to brush up on your knowledge of firearms. It's very important to know what gauge your shotgun is. If you put a 20 gauge shotgun cartridge into a 12 gauge it'll go down the barrel and catch in the end. If you then load a 12 gauge cartridge and fire you will likely blow the barrel off and cause serious injury.

I say this with the highest level of respect. It is paramount to be safe and competent with firearms at the very least. An instructor at your local range could help you brush up with some of the key terms.

cookimonster

This is a 12 gauge cartridge for a 12 gauge shotgun.
The pellet (shot) size in the cartridge is 7.5 (2.4mm diameter)

The calibre / gauge of your firearm should be on your renewal form section 4 -Firearm Details as delivered to you in the post.

BattleHardened

cookimonster wrote: »

The calibre / gauge of your firearm should be on your renewal form section 4 -Firearm Details as delivered to you in the post.

The last time the application form was filled up, the term "Single barrel" was put in the box where it asks for "caliber". That is obviously not what should be written in that box (its not very detailed) but the application went through ok with that. But i want to fill the application form up right this time around in case there is any confusion.

So i will just put "12 Guage" in the box where it says "Caliber".

BattleHardened

Cass wrote: »

Going by the box/picture they are 7.5s and trap cartidges which are generally used for clays, etc.

Are 7.5s (i don't know what "trap cartridges" are) bad cartridges for a 12 gauge single barrel shotgun? I shot a fox once 8 times at close range and he still didn't die (he was caught in a snare). I had to shoot him a 9th time. It seemed like an awful lot of shooting just to kill a fox. Just wondering if i should have different ammunition for my shotgun.

JohnFitz2332

BattleHardened wrote: »

Are 7.5s (i don't know what "trap cartridges" are) bad cartridges for a 12 gauge single barrel shotgun? I shot a fox once 8 times at close range and he still didn't die (he was caught in a snare). I had to shoot him a 9th time. It seemed like an awful lot of shooting just to kill a fox. Just wondering if i should have different ammunition for my shotgun.

Are you trolling....??

Asus1

BattleHardened wrote: »

Are 7.5s (i don't know what "trap cartridges" are) bad cartridges for a 12 gauge single barrel shotgun? I shot a fox once 8 times at close range and he still didn't die (he was caught in a snare). I had to shoot him a 9th time. It seemed like an awful lot of shooting just to kill a fox. Just wondering if i should have different ammunition for my shotgun.

I don't think you really did.

BattleHardened

Asus1 wrote: »

I don't think you really did.

Unfortunately that did happen. Admittedly, its possible some of the shots missed. But he must have been shot successfully at least 3 or 4 times. He wasn't moving or making a noise. But he was still alive.

I was left with the impression my shotgun must not be very powerful. Either that, or i am using the wrong ammunition.

dazed+confused

BattleHardened wrote:

Are 7.5s (i don't know what "trap cartridges" are) bad cartridges for a 12 gauge single barrel shotgun? I shot a fox once 8 times at close range and he still didn't die (he was caught in a snare). I had to shoot him a 9th time. It seemed like an awful lot of shooting just to kill a fox. Just wondering if i should have different ammunition for my shotgun.

You were definitely just missing the target. However those cartridges are highly unsuitable for shooting a fox.

Please don't take another shot at a wild animal until you've had the appropriate training.

BattleHardened

dazed+confused wrote: »

However those cartridges are highly unsuitable for shooting a fox.

Why?

What would you recommend?

cookimonster

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................... got my coat ........got my hat .... I'm off out

dazed+confused

BattleHardened wrote:

Why?

Because the shot size is too small and the load is too light.

BattleHardened wrote:

What would you recommend?

I would recommend some training. Contact the NARGC and they will tell you when the next competency course is running in your area.

Cass

I'm trying to take this seriously hence the original reply, but you're not making it easy. However in the spirit of educating rather than being skeptical, encouraging than criticising i'll treat this as a serious thread.

BattleHardened wrote: »

This is what is confusing me. Is the calibre 12 or 7.5? I need to fill it in on my gun license renewal application form.

You should have done this in your first application, not to mention a competency course. This course should have educated you on the basics. It doesn't have to make you a marksman, but at the very least educate you on the firearm you were applying for.

Were you asked for this when applying the first time?

BattleHardened wrote: »

But i want to fill the application form up right this time around in case there is any confusion.

The application should have been refused or questioned. Again it's the onus of the applicant to know what they are applying for.

So i will just put "12 Guage" in the box where it says "Caliber".

Yes.

BattleHardened wrote: »

Are 7.5s (i don't know what "trap cartridges" are) bad cartridges for a 12 gauge single barrel shotgun? I shot a fox once 8 times at close range and he still didn't die (he was caught in a snare). I had to shoot him a 9th time. It seemed like an awful lot of shooting just to kill a fox. Just wondering if i should have different ammunition for my shotgun.

Jaysus. There is not even a facepalm meme suitable for this.

As was said above NEVER, EVER, EVER, fire at anything living if you cannot hit it, don't know what your gun can do, what you can do, that you have a safe backstop, are using suitable ammo, etc,, etc.

We, the shooting community, contrary to popular belief by the great unwashed are not mindless killers. We are conservationists, sportsmen/women, and above all else we owe it to our quarry for a sporting chance and a clean kill.

BattleHardened wrote: »

Unfortunately that did happen. Admittedly, its possible some of the shots missed. But he must have been shot successfully at least 3 or 4 times. He wasn't moving or making a noise. But he was still alive.

You need to stop shooting, NOW. You know next to nothing, and that is not being cruel its a fact. You are an accident waiting to happen and a threat to the good reputation of the shooting community.

Go away and take a course, or two. Partner up with someone with experience and learn from WATCHING. When you have the basic skill level you can begin to take the gun out again, but keep doubling up with someone and learning.

Learn about your gun, ammo, patterning, spread, distance, effect range, chokes, aiming, etc.

I was left with the impression my shotgun must not be very powerful. Either that, or i am using the wrong ammunition.

Its you, and the wrong ammo.

BattleHardened wrote:

Why?

The cartridge in your picture is a trap cartridge. It's designed for clay pigeons, or close range birds like crows, pigeon, etc.

For an animal like a fox you must realise that a shotgun does not fire a bullet, but a load of pellets. Hundreds of them. They spread out as soon as they leave the barrel and continue to spread in all directions the further the shot travels.

As such it'll break a clay pigeon at a decent distance, but it only takes one pellet out of say 350-450 to do that. A fox demands a better shot, and a clean dispatch. This means you need to go for a higher load cartridge, know what choke your gun is or you have in it (if its multichoke) and the effective range of the gun/shot (iow what distance it can provide a clean kill out to).

The only way to know this is to put up targets, about 2 to 3 foot square, of white sheets of paper at distances from 15 to 60 yards and fire at them one at a time. Use the same cartridge each time and you'll find the 15 yard has all the shot in it, and is probably about 12 to 18 inches in width. As you reach out the distances and make it to 60 yards you might find only a couple of dozen pellets out of hundreds on the target and they'll be spread out all over the 2 or 3 foot target. This means 60 yard is too far fro your chosen choke/cartridge combo.

Repeat this process over and over with different cartridges and once you have found a distance that a particular cartridge can consistently pattern well at stick with it and DO NOT pass that distance when hunting.

What would you recommend?

If i were being a smart ar*e i'd say Golf, but again in the vain hope this is a genuine thread i'd say start with my advice above about stopping shooting for now, learning about your gun, doing some courses including a competency course, partnering up with someone, and learning as much as you can before returning to solo work.

BattleCorp

Stevie Wonder wouldn't miss a fox in a snare.

Next time club him to death with the gun. It'd be quicker.

ronn

BattleHardened wrote: »

Why?

What would you recommend?

Hit him over the head with the wooden part, you’d save a fortune,

Grizzly 45

I think you would be better off doing the following...
1]Ring the nice people in your local Garda station,and ask them to come around and take the gun and ammo into custody,along with suspending your liscense,as from your posts you clearly have no idea about firearms and this one in particular that you have in your possession.It's better they collect it,rather than you walking about the place with it going to your local station.Chances are better then you wont kill or injure some innocent or yourself.

2] Take up some other hobby.

kowloon

BattleHardened wrote: »

Are 7.5s (i don't know what "trap cartridges" are) bad cartridges for a 12 gauge single barrel shotgun? I shot a fox once 8 times at close range and he still didn't die (he was caught in a snare). I had to shoot him a 9th time. It seemed like an awful lot of shooting just to kill a fox. Just wondering if i should have different ammunition for my shotgun.

tuxy

The fox feels nothing, it's made out of string.

Bordglas

1. Make sure that your guardian has not removed the lead shot from the cartridges to avoid you shooting yourself or someone else.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

This can't be anything other than a wind-up.

tac foley

I'm inclined to think that the OP is a false flag, meant to get us to look like a bunch of animal-murdering scroates.

kowloon

tac foley wrote: »

I'm inclined to think that the OP is a false flag, meant to get us to look like a bunch of animal-murdering scroates.

Better that than the fox story being true .

Eddie B

No doubt this lad has very little experience with hunting or handling firearms. Bet he was terrified of the live fox in the snare, and shot it from forty yards or more. What worries me more, is the fact he's setting snares, which require a lot of skill and knowledge, to catch humanely, and avoid non targets.

solarwinds

Personally I think its a case of too much You Tube here.

Nekarsulm

BattleHardened wrote: »

I was left with the impression my shotgun must not be very powerful. Either that, or i am using the wrong ammunition.

I wonder how old your box of cartridges are.
Have they been sitting on a shelf in a shed for years?
Been ages since I saw French cartridges.

If they have been in humid/damp conditions it can severely affect the potency of the powder.
As others have advised, why not go get a few lessons from someone more experienced, to ensure your own safety and that of others.

BattleHardened

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I wonder how old your box of cartridges are.
Have they been sitting on a shelf in a shed for years?
Been ages since I saw French cartridges.

If they have been in humid/damp conditions it can severely affect the potency of the powder.

They have been in a box in a cabinet in the sitting room. Not damp at all.

Nekarsulm wrote: »

As others have advised, why not go get a few lessons from someone more experienced, to ensure your own safety and that of others.

I'm surprised you don't have to do a course to get a gun license. You'd think that would be mandatory.

Cass

BattleHardened wrote: »

I'm surprised you don't have to do a course to get a gun license. You'd think that would be mandatory.

You do.

When you first apply for a firearm, since 2009, you must show competence in the ability to safely handle a firearm. This can be shown in one of four ways:

1. A competence course
2. Having held a training license
3. Previous experience with a firearm
4. Letter(s) of support from those with firearms

The above can be broken down as follows

1. Competence course - A course ran by a range or othe competent person/body that will spend a few hours to a day with you. During the course they will familiarise you with the different types of firearms, safe handling, safe shooting, backstops, quarry identification, knowing your own ability, etc. At the end of the course you take a questionnaire/test and if you pass you receive a certifcate of competence to say you are safe.
2. Training license - A training license is a license anyone can get, but is designed for those between the age of 14 to 16 that cannot legally hold a firearm on their own. It allows them to accompany and use a firearm belonging to someone else (over the age of 18), but never have sole possession or store the gun at their own home. By spending two years "shadowing" someone they learn the skills required to be a competent and safe shooter and when they turn 16 they can apply for a full license for their own firearm.
3. Previous experience - This is for those that have previously held a firearms license or served in a job where firearm handling was required/necessary. If you can show this previous experience it may be accepted that you have the required competence and safety to be issued a firearms license.
4. Letters of support - Fairly obvious one, but this is when a few people that you have shadowed for an undefined amount of time write a letter in support of your application explaining how they have brought you out, without allowing you to use a firearm (as it's illegal without a license) and you have shown the necessary competence, awareness, safety, and experience to be qualified to hold a firearm of your own. The persons writing this must be firearm holders and fully.currently licensed.

Some of the comments above, not least of which include mine, may seem harsh but once again you have posted about "not needing to do a course" which tells me that you are either trolling, which i truly hope is not the case, or you have not gotten license before. Of course the other scenario is you have a license as you claim, and sailed through the application process without doing any of the above or even filling in the form yourself in which case your application is a fraudulent one and from a technically legal point of view, stands void.

As a firearms license holder you should be aware of these requirements. You should have gone through some of it, if not all of it. You MUST fill in your own paperwork as allowing anyone else to do it, even a Garda, is a fraudulent application and stands void if issued.

Combine this lack of knowledge of the processes required to obtain a license with your self confessed inability/ignorance in the proper use/competent handling of a firearm and it sets off alarm bells at every juncture.

I would strongly urge you to once again stop shooting. Start from beginning, learn the basic, familiarise yourself with the basics of the rules and laws of gun ownership (which you can do by reading THE BIG RED ANNOUNCEMENT AT THE TOP OF THE FORUM) and then, but ONLY then, come back into the sport.

tac foley

This really begs the question - how does he have a shotgun at all?

Cass

We don't know that. We only have the OP's word.

It's also why i still believe this is a wind up/troll.

Most genuine people would ask questions and learn before acting. The OP has come on, asked a fundamental question, shown they have not followed the regular protocol for applying, shown their utter lack of knowledge and then compounded it all by retelling a story that no sane person would either do or admit to doing.

It seems a "look at how bad hunters are, because i am one" ruse.

The only reason the thread has been left open is the excellent replies from all the community of genuine hunters condemning this behaviour and trying to educate not only the OP but any other person in the real position of thinking of starting into the sport.

solarwinds

tac foley wrote: »

This really begs the question - how does he have a shotgun at all?

In fairness I dont think he actually does, to not even know the calibre of shotgun you have is a bit of a stretch.

Nekarsulm

BattleHardened wrote: »

Are 7.5s (i don't know what "trap cartridges" are) bad cartridges for a 12 gauge single barrel shotgun? I shot a fox once 8 times at close range and he still didn't die (he was caught in a snare). I had to shoot him a 9th time. It seemed like an awful lot of shooting just to kill a fox. Just wondering if i should have different ammunition for my shotgun.

Can you stick up a photo of your gun?
There are an awful lot of old single barrelled shotguns still in the hands of old folk who inherited them from their relatives.
I know of two fellows with old guns, one a Harrington & Richardson the other an un-named Belgium gun, both are kept behind their bedroom door. Both are probably from the early 1900's.
There is no way I would be firing anything more potent than a 28g clay load out of either.

If its an old gun you have, stick up a photo, especially of the markings on the mechanism when the gun is disassembled.
It may not be safe to shoot at all.

PS. Shooting a fox caught in a snare, the end of thr gun barrel would need to be less than 6 foot awsy from the creature to insure an instantaneous death.

Asus1

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Can you stick up a photo of your gun?
There are an awful lot of old single barrelled shotguns still in the hands of old folk who inherited them from their relatives.
I know of two fellows with old guns, one a Harrington & Richardson the other an un-named Belgium gun, both are kept behind their bedroom door. Both are probably from the early 1900's.
There is no way I would be firing anything more potent than a 28g clay load out of either.

If its an old gun you have, stick up a photo, especially of the markings on the mechanism when the gun is disassembled.
It may not be safe to shoot at all.

PS. Shooting a fox caught in a snare, the end of thr gun barrel would need to be less than 6 foot awsy from the creature to insure an instantaneous death.

I used to go to driven fox shoots with my father a good few years ago and he and other club members would drop fox stone dead at 30yards plus a bit with shotguns.I think they shot eley superfox or something like that but it was a bb load.Would you need to be that close to kill a fox with clay loads,would 10/15yards away not kill him.

Nekarsulm

Asus1 wrote: »

I used to go to driven fox shoots with my father a good few years ago and he and other club members would drop fox stone dead at 30yards plus a bit with shotguns.I think they shot eley superfox or something like that but it was a bb load.Would you need to be that close to kill a fox with clay loads,would 10/15yards away not kill him.

If its in a snare, and you have 7.5 clay load cartridges with you why not get close?
Shot spreads at about one inch per yard of travel, so at 15 yards it is typically occupying an area 15 inches in diameter, and losing penetrating power .
Just my opinion.

Asus1

Nekarsulm wrote: »

If its in a snare, and you have 7.5 clay load cartridges with you why not get close?
Shot spreads at about one inch per yard of travel, so at 15 yards it is typically occupying an area 15 inches in diameter, and losing penetrating power .
Just my opinion.

Would actually agree with you in regard of getting as close as you can to dispatch a fox in a snare.With the clay/pigeon loads how far is too far to ethically use on a fox.I always remember the kick off the bb load in my fathers old Spanish side by side.

Gorgeousgeorge

Asus1 wrote: »

I used to go to driven fox shoots with my father a good few years ago and he and other club members would drop fox stone dead at 30yards plus a bit with shotguns.I think they shot eley superfox or something like that but it was a bb load.Would you need to be that close to kill a fox with clay loads,would 10/15yards away not kill him.

Had crows fly away after being hit with 28g of no 8 shot. Not made for deep penetration at all. No problem getting charlie at 40yards with rc50 in 0 shot etc

Grizzly 45

solarwinds wrote: »

In fairness I dont think he actually does, to not even know the calibre of shotgun you have is a bit of a stretch.

Get the impression,the OP inherited this gun and is facing the 1st time liscensing questionare in their name,and is clueless how to go about it.

solarwinds

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

solarwinds wrote: »

In fairness I dont think he actually does, to not even know the calibre of shotgun you have is a bit of a stretch.

Get the impression,the OP inherited this gun and is facing the 1st time liscensing questionare in their name,and is clueless how to go about it.

If that is the case, hopefully, any new member is welcome to the shooting community. It would be better if the op clarified this.

Rosahane

Cass wrote: »

We don't know that. We only have the OP's word.

It's also why i still believe this is a wind up/troll.

Most genuine people would ask questions and learn before acting. The OP has come on, asked a fundamental question, shown they have not followed the regular protocol for applying, shown their utter lack of knowledge and then compounded it all by retelling a story that no sane person would either do or admit to doing.

It seems a "look at how bad hunters are, because i am one" ruse.

The only reason the thread has been left open is the excellent replies from all the community of genuine hunters condemning this behaviour and trying to educate not only the OP but any other person in the real position of thinking of starting into the sport.

The OP asks about licence renewal but is clueless about the requirements to get a licence in the first instance. Anybody who went through that would know all about the requirements..
It’s a trolling exercise IMHO

BattleHardened

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Get the impression,the OP inherited this gun and is facing the 1st time liscensing questionare in their name,and is clueless how to go about it.

You should have been a detective

BattleCorp

BattleHardened wrote: »

You should have been a detective

And you should have a licence before you go shooting foxes with the gun.

Gorgeousgeorge

Jaysus ban him and lock this thread

meathstevie

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Can you stick up a photo of your gun?
There are an awful lot of old single barrelled shotguns still in the hands of old folk who inherited them from their relatives.
I know of two fellows with old guns, one a Harrington & Richardson the other an un-named Belgium gun, both are kept behind their bedroom door. Both are probably from the early 1900's.
There is no way I would be firing anything more potent than a 28g clay load out of either.

If its an old gun you have, stick up a photo, especially of the markings on the mechanism when the gun is disassembled.
It may not be safe to shoot at all.

PS. Shooting a fox caught in a snare, the end of thr gun barrel would need to be less than 6 foot awsy from the creature to insure an instantaneous death.

Sound advice, plenty of century old guns are perfectly safe to use but you need to know it's limits. Plenty of old guns will do fine for decades to come with the right loads. Put in the wrong length and weight of cartridge once too often and you could be saying goodbye to your hands and half your face.

Eddie B

meathstevie wrote: »

Sound advice, plenty of century old guns are perfectly safe to use but you need to know it's limits. Plenty of old guns will do fine for decades to come with the right loads. Put in the wrong length and weight of cartridge once too often and you could be saying goodbye to your hands and half your face.

I'm actually shooting a gun which was passed down to me by my father. An old Monte Carlo side by side. Just love the feel of the gun. Shooting buddy's always remark how well it can kill at distance. Yea, it has its limits, can't use steel shot etc, but I'd find it hard let go of it.

Grizzly 45

BattleHardened wrote: »

You should have been a detective

I actually was...:P No messing.
So we can now deduce,by your own admission,you are liscensing,or attempting to liscense a firearm,that you clearly are not fammilar with at all.Seriously...Go and do a basic saftey course in gun handling and knowledge,you do need it,and it is a basic requirement for first time applicants.If you can drive a car safely,you can shoot a gun safely.Would you chance letting someone out on the road with just the knowledge of starting and putting a car in gear??

Grizzly 45

Eddie B wrote: »

I'm actually shooting a gun which was passed down to me by my father. An old Monte Carlo side by side. Just love the feel of the gun. Shooting buddy's always remark how well it can kill at distance. Yea, it has its limits, can't use steel shot etc, but I'd find it hard let go of it.

Still have,and use occasionaly as a walkabout, my 1st shotgun I got at ten years old,a single shot Belgian 410 folding poachers shotgun.Must be well over 150 years old by now ,bore has some pitting in it,but it still kills crows and clays well.
OTOH my grandfathers 1936 Drilling is a danger to use,as it has become worn in its aluminium reciver,and can discharge all 3 barrels at once!So its destined to become a wall hanger soon in Germany.Aluminium technology in the 30s was cutting edge,so hardening wasnt that good.Just shows,it doesnt depend on the age,but the condition.

tac foley

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Still have,and use occasionaly as a walkabout, my 1st shotgun I got at ten years old,a single shot Belgian 410 folding poachers shotgun.Must be well over 150 years old by now ,bore has some pitting in it,but it still kills crows and clays well.

You are 140 years old?

Oy.

Anyhow, I'm having a hard time getting my head around this person and his antics. I was always of the impression that you had to license the gun before you could use it or claim ownership of it.

Grizzly 45

And I dont look a day over 139...:pac:

meathstevie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Still have,and use occasionaly as a walkabout, my 1st shotgun I got at ten years old,a single shot Belgian 410 folding poachers shotgun.Must be well over 150 years old by now ,bore has some pitting in it,but it still kills crows and clays well.
OTOH my grandfathers 1936 Drilling is a danger to use,as it has become worn in its aluminium reciver,and can discharge all 3 barrels at once!So its destined to become a wall hanger soon in Germany.Aluminium technology in the 30s was cutting edge,so hardening wasnt that good.Just shows,it doesnt depend on the age,but the condition.

Duralumin I believe it was called in those days. Not exactly the aircraft construction aluminium of today.....