Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Israel Folau, Billy Vunipola and the intolerance of tolerance

Options
1…2324262829…31

Comments

  • Options
    #752
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    recedite wrote: »
    Nobody seems to care about the atheists, drunks and fornicators that Folau mentioned in the same sentence.
    Its definitely the gay lobby that are behind the power of the anti-Folau campaign.

    Atheists as a group are I would think very unlikely to be worried about eternal damnation. Gay people on the other hand are possibly religious.
    All the other things on his list are choices.


  • Options
    #753
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,193 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    must be the forth or fifth time the same water has been thread in this argument.
    Obviously opinions are polarised and the arguers will never see the opposite viewpoint.


  • Options
    #754
    tritriagain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭tritriagain


    recedite wrote: »
    Nobody seems to care about the atheists, drunks and fornicators that Folau mentioned in the same sentence.
    Its definitely the gay lobby that are behind the power of the anti-Folau campaign.

    Absolutely. I'm an atheist. I wasn't offended by what he said. He thinks I'm going to hell and I think he's an idiot.


  • Options
    #755
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,175 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    tritriagain wrote: »
    Absolutely. I'm an atheist. I wasn't offended by what he said. He thinks I'm going to hell and I think he's an idiot.
    Would you take the view that only a religious person could take offence, or could reasonably take offence, at what Folau said?


  • Options
    #756
    Hobosan
    Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hobosan


    salmocab wrote: »
    Atheists as a group are I would think very unlikely to be worried about eternal damnation. Gay people on the other hand are possibly religious.
    All the other things on his list are choices.

    Yes, he got into trouble because exclusively religious homosexuals became worried that a rugby players comment consigned them to hell.

    That's what it was all about.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #757
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Hobosan wrote: »
    Yes, he got into trouble because exclusively religious homosexuals became worried that a rugby players comment consigned them to hell.

    That's what it was all about.

    Well that’s not even close to what I was saying but you can work away with it if you want.


  • Options
    #758
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Guess who's being a prick again. https://7news.com.au/sport/rugby-union/israel-folau-links-bushfire-crisis-to-legalisation-of-same-sex-marriage-c-561104


    Surely even if you believe in god, youd agree that it'd be easier for him to show up, just the once maybe , in a busy place, and tell a large amount of witnesses that you exist and what way you want people to live. Encourage them to film it too. and not as a scruffy , human looking homeless man that everyone will think is just someone crazy, something big and unmistakable. That has to be in everyones best interest?

    But I suppose one vague book and then silently smiting the world in various ways is a better solution. Who knows, not me, Im not god.......


  • Options
    #759
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,729 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Guess who's being a prick again. https://7news.com.au/sport/rugby-union/israel-folau-links-bushfire-crisis-to-legalisation-of-same-sex-marriage-c-561104


    Surely even if you believe in god, youd agree that it'd be easier for him to show up, just the once maybe , in a busy place, and tell a large amount of witnesses that you exist and what way you want people to live. Encourage them to film it too. and not as a scruffy , human looking homeless man that everyone will think is just someone crazy, something big and unmistakable. That has to be in everyones best interest?

    But I suppose one vague book and then silently smiting the world in various ways is a better solution. Who knows, not me, Im not god.......

    Wow, at what point do you distinguish between religious zeal and full on homophobic hate mongering? I can't imagine that many Christians would agree with his take on things, nor for that matter can I see him wearing the jersey of a high profile rugby club any time soon.


  • Options
    #760
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,774 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Well I don't agree with his views, I staunchly disagree in fact. I'm not religious either.
    You guys say he is homophobic. He is talking about god and his belief system here. I don't hear him saying that anybody should be beaten up or anything like that.
    I think his views are wrong and I think you guys are wrong to call him homophobic.
    Any anyways it's a sermon in a small church in Australia, who really cares what goes on there?


  • Options
    #761
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,729 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I don't hear him saying that anybody should be beaten up or anything like that.
    I think his views are wrong and I think you guys are wrong to call him homophobic.

    He is blaming the unrelated and tragic death of innocent people on societies unwillingness to discriminate against gay people. That's blatantly homophopic from where I'm sitting, not to mention hugely insensitive to the families of the deceased and further is also incitement to hatred.
    Any anyways it's a sermon in a small church in Australia, who really cares what goes on there?

    The rest of the world apparently, given that it is featuring in the media and we're sitting here discussing it on the other side of the planet.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #762
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,774 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    smacl wrote:
    He is blaming the unrelated and tragic death of innocent people on societies unwillingness to discriminate against gay people. That's blatantly homophopic from where I'm sitting, not to mention hugely insensitive to the families of the deceased and further is also incitement to hatred.
    Religion is insensitive at the best of times if you don't believe in it. I don't but I'm never offended by it because I understand that there are many people who follow religion.
    You just have to accept that before deciding about comments from religious people.
    I don't believe that there is any intention to wish ill on gay people from Israel Folau. I believe he is genuinely religious and as such I don't consider it homophobic.
    If I thought somebody was intentionally using religion to air their views then it would be homophobic.


  • Options
    #763
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Religion is insensitive at the best of times if you don't believe in it. I don't but I'm never offended by it because I understand that there are many people who follow religion.
    You just have to accept that before deciding about comments from religious people.
    I don't believe that there is any intention to wish ill on gay people from Israel Folau. I believe he is genuinely religious and as such I don't consider it homophobic.
    If I thought somebody was intentionally using religion to air their views then it would be homophobic.

    Something being part of a religious belief doesn’t stop it being something else whether it’s homophobia, racism or believing that the colour red is blue it’s still all these things just the belief may have started for different reasons but is nonetheless still what it is. He’s entitled to his views but not entitled to not be judged.


  • Options
    #764
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I don't believe that there is any intention to wish ill on gay people from Israel Folau..

    Yeah, he just wants them to stop being gay, is that too much to ask..........


  • Options
    #765
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,729 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I believe he is genuinely religious and as such I don't consider it homophobic.

    Of course there is, saying gay people will go hell unless they repent is homophobic. Say gay people should not be afforded the same rights as straight people is also homophobic. Saying recent tragic deaths, with many more to follow, are a result of society refusing to discriminate against gay people is homophobic and hateful.

    I see in the press this morning that other conservative Christians in Australia that have supported him up until this point are now telling him to shut up, https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/1118/1092536-australia-fires-folau/
    "They were appalling comments and he is a free citizen, he can say whatever he likes. But that doesn't mean he can't have regard to the grievous offence this would have caused to people whose homes have been burnt down," said the prime minister.

    Even one of his most staunch allies, former Wallabies coach and conservative radio host Alan Jones, was unimpressed.

    "Israel is a lovely human being, I know him well. But, Israel, button up," Mr Jones said on his 2GB radio programme. "These comments don't help."


  • Options
    #766
    Iscreamkone
    Registered Users Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    He may be right though...








    The mathematics of probability would suggest otherwise


  • Options
    #767
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,729 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    salmocab wrote: »
    He’s entitled to his views but not entitled to not be judged.

    This pretty much sums up the whole debate. He has decided to judge modern societal values based on his archaic religious beliefs and society has judged him right back.

    Given from the broad negative reaction, his comments appear repugnant to most people and don't represent anyone's views other than his own.


  • Options
    #768
    AngryHippie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭AngryHippie


    I wonder how long it will be before he busts out of the closet ?

    Margaret Court's been in there pretty deep for a long time. Also a batsh1t crazy religious nut (independent Pentecostal minister)

    sad to see. in more enlightened times we may fully accept religious fervor as the delusional optimism that it scientifically must be.


  • Options
    #769
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    Seems like Rugby Australia settled with Folau so it won't see court.

    This is a good outcome for religious freedom and freedom of expression. He'll probably be able to play club rugby again soon enough.


  • Options
    #770
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    theological wrote: »
    Seems like Rugby Australia settled with Folau so it won't see court.

    This is a good outcome for religious freedom and freedom of expression. He'll probably be able to play club rugby again soon enough.

    He was always able to play club rugby just like he always had religious freedom and freedom of expression, he lost his job. I would think it’s unlikely he’ll have many offers though as most clubs are unlikely to want a homophobe on their pay roll.


  • Options
    #771
    theological
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭theological


    salmocab wrote: »
    He was always able to play club rugby just like he always had religious freedom and freedom of expression, he lost his job. I would think it’s unlikely he’ll have many offers though as most clubs are unlikely to want a homophobe on their pay roll.

    I and others have already argued at length about how believing what the Bible says about sexuality isn't hateful you can read through the thread. I've got nothing to add on this point.

    I simply wanted to update the thread with the conclusion which I think is a good one.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #772
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    theological wrote: »
    I and others have already argued at length about how believing what the Bible says about sexuality isn't hateful you can read through the thread. I've got nothing to add on this point.

    I simply wanted to update the thread with the conclusion which I think is a good one.

    Good for you, I’ve read the thread and nothing you or others said convinced me. He’s a homophobe and lost his job for what he said. It was nothing to do with religion it was a man doing something he’d signed on to not do and losing his job.


  • Options
    #773
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,774 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    This is good. It'll be great to see him back playing rugby.
    I wonder will he stay in Australia, I'm sure there are huge offers from many European clubs. I think he'd like to stay in Australia though.


  • Options
    #774
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    eagle eye wrote: »
    This is good. It'll be great to see him back playing rugby.
    I wonder will he stay in Australia, I'm sure there are huge offers from many European clubs. I think he'd like to stay in Australia though.

    He was sacked by rugby Australia there is close to no chance of him getting a job there.


  • Options
    #775
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,774 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    salmocab wrote:
    He was sacked by rugby Australia there is close to no chance of him getting a job there.
    It's been settled and RA made an apology as part of the settlement.


  • Options
    #776
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    eagle eye wrote: »
    It's been settled and RA made an apology as part of the settlement.

    So? You think that changes anything


  • Options
    #777
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,774 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    salmocab wrote:
    So? You think that changes anything
    Yes I do. An apology like that suggests all doors are open for him I'd imagine.


  • Options
    #778
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    troyzer wrote: »
    Some views simply shouldn't be tolerated.

    If Folau had come out and said black people will burn in hell or Jewish people, you wouldn't accept him being raised to believe it as an excuse. There's no difference.

    The suicide rate among gay teenagers is shocking as well as the almost non existence of rugby players willing to come out. Both of these things can be attributed to a historic intolerance of who they are. We are trying to stamp that out.

    Backwards views are backwards. I don't care if they're sincerely held. If you believe something that is morally repugnant, you are morally repugnant.

    Such an absurd conflation. Neither of those things can be attributed to anything let alone historic intolerance. You have not solved the problem of depression and suicide so stop acting like you have.


  • Options
    #779
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    AngryHippie wrote: »
    I wonder how long it will be before he busts out of the closet ?

    Margaret Court's been in there pretty deep for a long time. Also a batsh1t crazy religious nut (independent Pentecostal minister)

    sad to see. in more enlightened times we may fully accept religious fervor as the delusional optimism that it scientifically must be.

    The idea that opposing anal means you are closet gay is a clever but devious propaganda tool to normalize it. There is no evidence of this.


  • Options
    #780
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Yes I do. An apology like that suggests all doors are open for him I'd imagine.

    Both sides apologised it means nothing from either side. Doors that were previously shut to him are still shut now.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #781
    sosndt
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭sosndt


    Not commenting on the article just your own words.
    Your beliefs n all things should be private and once you decide to make them public it is open season.
    You have brought it on yourself. You have no more right to say something then the next person.
    If you share an unpopular opinion and you share it you should expect and receive negative reactions.
    The fact that your beliefs are old do not protect them or you.


Advertisement