Have we reach peak LGBT nonsense?

salmocab

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As already stated there are some works places where their boss would agree with them. In those workplaces coming out as gay could get you sacked - do you think that's ok?

People face sanction for breaking the terms of their contract of employment. If you sign the contract and break it then it's 'fair' if you are sanctioned for it. Even if that contract says 'you have to be heterosexual'.

Well that last bits not true as that couldn’t be in a contract that you had to be heterosexual.

eagle eye

Bannasidhe wrote:

As already stated there are some works places where their boss would agree with them. In those workplaces coming out as gay could get you sacked - do you think that's ok?

No I don't think it's OK either way.

Bannasidhe wrote:

People face sanction for breaking the terms of their contract of employment. If you sign the contract and break it then it's 'fair' if you are sanctioned for it. Even if that contract says 'you have to be heterosexual'.

I think is should be illegal to put any of that stuff in a contract.

Bannasidhe

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

I didn't say you imagined it.

I do say that your previous comment -

...is impossible for you to know for certain, because it may be the result of misguided religious belief rather than inherent homophobia.

Still, that was the card you played.

The card I played was the "predisposed to find homophobia everywhere" card you dealt.

Falou tweeted, among other gems, “God’s plan for gay people was hell” - Rugby Australian were predisposed to see that as homophobia because:

“Israel has failed to understand that the expectation of him as a Rugby Australia and NSW Waratahs employee is that he cannot share material on social media that condemns, vilifies or discriminates against people on the basis of their sexuality.”

If it "condemns, vilifies or discriminates against people on the basis of their sexuality" it's wrong.
If the people being targeted are LGB it's homophobia. If they are straight it's heterophobia - and yes, that happens just not very often. It's still wrong.

Bannasidhe

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

WHERE is that happening ?

You want to know where there are workplaces that don't approve of homosexuality?

Mark Hamill

antiskeptic wrote: »

It's really hard to know where to start with this kind of thinking. Atheists generally have a good grasp of logic and evidence but this is really bad logic you've got going there.

The "therefore" doesn't follow..

I criticize Folau's critics not because I agree with Folau, but because I disagree with cramping free speech which I don't think is hate speech. A slightly larger issue than what Folau might say.

I'm sure I said I thought Folau was blunt, imprecise, and dodgy in his theology elsewhere.

But the criticism concerns the larger issue: LGBT gone mad.

And I stand by that split. Him the minnow for criticism vs. media/corporate/political environs in hock to aggressive LGBT agenda. Hence the focus not on minnows.

Oh so now it is because you disgree with people cramping on free speech? Because in every single post of yours on this subject, right up to this one, it was only because you disagreed that god need punish according to Folau's critics moral whims (and their whims only, not his). Here is a selection from your ~dozen posts over the last 3 days up to this point:

antiskeptic wrote: »

Presumably if Israel had chosen his remarks in the wake of Jeffery Epsteins suicide or some such, there wouldn't be a whimper.

Wrath no problem, so long as man the decision maker on where and when it ought be applied.

antiskeptic wrote: »

I thought it clear as crystal: people wouldn't get their knickers in a twist if the wrath supposedly being visited upon a person matched their particular view on who it was that deserved that wrath

God raining down wrath on paedophiles would be fine. God raining down wrath on the (in their view) innocent not.

antiskeptic wrote: »

Would folk have hopped up and down in a rage had Folau said God's wrath was upon Epstein?

If you answer "No" then you're half way to understanding what I wrote.

antiskeptic wrote: »

The implication of what I said was that people where picky and choosy when it comes to when and where God's wrath (a wrath they don't actually believe in) might be considered appropriate to apply.

You haven't once mentioned "free speech" up to now, so who do you think you are fooling with this?

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As already stated there are some works places where their boss would agree with them. In those workplaces coming out as gay could get you sacked - do you think that's ok?

People face sanction for breaking the terms of their contract of employment. If you sign the contract and break it then it's 'fair' if you are sanctioned for it. Even if that contract says 'you have to be heterosexual'.

Ah come off it. That's a load of nonsense. :rolleyes:

Bannasidhe

salmocab wrote: »

Well that last bits not true as that couldn’t be in a contract that you had to be heterosexual.

As this thread is about events in Australia it's fair we can cast the are people obliged to be straight in some jobs net wide - now we won't go to some Sharia Law laden Muslim country, we'll go to the home of Stonewall and the Civil Rights Movement.

As expected, Donald Trump’s administration has filed a brief with the Supreme Court urging the justices to rule that it’s legal to fire workers because of their sexual orientation.

https://www.advocate.com/politics/2019/8/23/trump-admin-supreme-court-allow-gay-people-be-fired

WASHINGTON—The Supreme Court spent two tense hours on Tuesday weighing whether the nation’s bedrock civil-rights law forbids employers from discriminating against gay or transgender employees.

The issues arrived in separate cases, but they boiled down to the same question: Does the Civil Rights Act of 1964, whose Title VII outlaws workplace discrimination based on sex, nevertheless permit employers to fire individuals because they are gay or transgender?

...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/justices-spar-over-gay-employee-cases-11570553420

She was unexpectedly called into a meeting with school administrators.

“They told me that someone called the school with allegations against me and said I was in a relationship with another woman, that I attend pride events and that I host ‘homosexual’ activities at the studio,” Toro Lisciandro told NBC News. “.......“Covenant Christian School also requires that all employees must agree to and model our position on human sexuality, which is based on the biblical teaching that asks all Christ followers to abstain from any sexual activities outside of a one-man, one-woman marriage,” the school wrote in an email. “Teachers are asked to believe, model and instruct students in all matters of faith, including its doctrines.”

Toro Lisciandro said that while she had worked at the school for nearly three years, she was never explicitly told about a rule regarding the sexuality of staff members. She identifies as Christian and thinks it's harmful to insinuate that being gay is the antithesis of religious faith.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/it-was-traumatic-after-being-outed-lesbian-teacher-fired-christian-n1072826

Used to happen here too.

Thursday, August 08, 2019 - 05:47 PM
The Garda Commissioner has written to a former garda confirming that he was kicked out of the force in the 1980s because he was suspected of being gay.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/former-garda-sacked-in-1982-for-being-gay-garda-commissioner-confirms-942726.html

In fact the fear is still there

“Teachers who teach in religious schools are told, ‘well you know if you want to continue working here in this school or if you want to get a job in the local area you can’t be ‘out’ - get back into the closet’. That’s shocking in 2018.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-fear-consequences-of-coming-out-as-gay-1.3542812

salmocab

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As this thread is about events in Australia it's fair we can cast the are people obliged to be straight in some jobs net wide - now we won't go to some Sharia Law laden Muslim country, we'll go to the home of Stonewall and the Civil Rights Movement.

https://www.advocate.com/politics/2019/8/23/trump-admin-supreme-court-allow-gay-people-be-fired



https://www.wsj.com/articles/justices-spar-over-gay-employee-cases-11570553420



https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/it-was-traumatic-after-being-outed-lesbian-teacher-fired-christian-n1072826

Used to happen here too.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/former-garda-sacked-in-1982-for-being-gay-garda-commissioner-confirms-942726.html

In fact the fear is still there

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-fear-consequences-of-coming-out-as-gay-1.3542812

Well fair enough in a world wide context but neither here or in Australia would it be allowed to have it in an employment contract.

Bannasidhe

salmocab wrote: »

Well fair enough in a world wide context but neither here or in Australia would it be allowed to have it in an employment contract.

You sure about that?

Australian politicians are doubling down on a law that allows religious schools, which receive government funding, to discriminate against gay teachers and students.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/world/australia/gay-schools-teachers-religion.html

Australia's workplace laws make it illegal for employers to discriminate against employees for reasons like sex, marital status, political opinion or sexual orientation, with discrimination including actions like firing the employee, denying them their legal entitlements, changing their job to a disadvantage or treating them differently. However there's one big 'but' under these protections.

"It's not discrimination if the actions are taken against an employee of a religious institution to avoid harming the organisation's religious beliefs," the page clarifies, opening up a big loophole for a number of religiously affiliated workplaces who don't want to employ certain kinds of people.

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2018/10/is-it-legal-to-fire-someone-for-being-gay/

A gay teacher in a Catholic school has hidden her identity in a video for a wedding competition as her sexual orientation may cost her her job.

The video, entitled ‘Caoimhe and Pixel’, is one of five finalists for Newstalk’s social media competition to win the ultimate wedding. Open to couples of all kinds, Newstalk will cover the costs of the catering, flowers, photographer, and band for the winning entry.

However, one entry has hit the headlines after one half of a lesbian couple has had to pixelate her face over fears it may cost her job.Posting their entry on YouTube, the couple, who have been together for eight years, explained why one of them had to hide their identity.

“Why the pixelated face? Pixel is a teacher in a Catholic school, and as such is subject to Section 37 of the Equality Employment Act. This states that any employee of an institution may be dismissed from their job for not upholding the ethos of that institution.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/gay-teacher-forced-to-hide-her-identity-for-fear-of-losing-job-312137.html

Section 37 was finally repealed in 2015. Up until then Gay teachers in State funded schools that were under the patronage Religious could be fired for being Gay. And hose schools number over 90% of all schools in Ireland.

salmocab

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You sure about that?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/world/australia/gay-schools-teachers-religion.html

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2018/10/is-it-legal-to-fire-someone-for-being-gay/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/gay-teacher-forced-to-hide-her-identity-for-fear-of-losing-job-312137.html

Section 37 was finally repealed in 2015. Up until then Gay teachers in State funded schools that were under the patronage Religious could be fired for being Gay. And hose schools number over 90% of all schools in Ireland.

So in limited circumstances in most of Australia it’s possible and it’s now illegal in Ireland. I stand a bit corrected so

Lefty Bicek

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You want to know where there are workplaces that don't approve of homosexuality?

Nope. Not asking you about 'approval'.

You said -

In those workplaces coming out as gay could get you sacked

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111886963&postcount=1469

Name the workplaces you're referring to.

No more dissembling, please.

Bannasidhe

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Nope. Not asking you about 'approval'.

You said -

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111886963&postcount=1469

Name the workplaces you're referring to.

No more dissembling, please.

Do try and keep up.

I have already provided links to people who were fired for being gay.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As this thread is about events in Australia it's fair we can cast the are people obliged to be straight in some jobs net wide - now we won't go to some Sharia Law laden Muslim country, we'll go to the home of Stonewall and the Civil Rights Movement.

https://www.advocate.com/politics/2019/8/23/trump-admin-supreme-court-allow-gay-people-be-fired



https://www.wsj.com/articles/justices-spar-over-gay-employee-cases-11570553420



https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/it-was-traumatic-after-being-outed-lesbian-teacher-fired-christian-n1072826

Used to happen here too.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/former-garda-sacked-in-1982-for-being-gay-garda-commissioner-confirms-942726.html

In fact the fear is still there

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-fear-consequences-of-coming-out-as-gay-1.3542812

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You sure about that?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/18/world/australia/gay-schools-teachers-religion.html

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2018/10/is-it-legal-to-fire-someone-for-being-gay/

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/gay-teacher-forced-to-hide-her-identity-for-fear-of-losing-job-312137.html

Section 37 was finally repealed in 2015. Up until then Gay teachers in State funded schools that were under the patronage Religious could be fired for being Gay. And hose schools number over 90% of all schools in Ireland.

I would also imagine Asher's Bakery would not wish to hire an openly homosexual employee.

Lefty Bicek

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I have already provided links to people who were fired for being gay.

The past, we can't do anything about.. Australia, the US, and the rotten statelet above us - ditto. So wasn't asking about any of that.

Your link re the current situation in Ireland is about feared consequences for teachers - bias, and discrimination at work.

But no way would this society in 2019 tolerate a person being sacked for their orientation.

We know that institutions and organisations can work in other nasty ways to pressurise staff they want to be rid of. That's not an experience specific to gay people though.

4068ac1elhodqr

Hungary decided it's had enough of it anyway, and has (unofically) 'withdrawn' from the Eurovision 2020 sing-song show.
Citing it as being 'too gay'. It is a bit gay in fairness, maybe moreso since the chap in the dress took to the stage.

Ah well can't say they'll be missed (musically).

Bannasidhe

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

The past, we can't do anything about.. Australia, the US, and the rotten statelet above us - ditto. So wasn't asking about any of that.

Your link re the current situation in Ireland is about feared consequences for teachers - bias, and discrimination at work.

But no way would this society in 2019 tolerate a person being sacked for their orientation.

We know that institutions and organisations can work in other nasty ways to pressurise staff they want to be rid of. That's not an experience specific to gay people though.

In case it you have missed it this thread is about an Australian rugby player who was dismissed from his job in Australia by his employer Australian Rugby.

And the only reason this society, as you put it, wouldn't tolerate it in 2019 is because an awful lot of people campaigned, lobbied, and took the risk of coming out to make sure it wouldn't be tolerated.

And if you think all that work wasn't called "LGBT Nonsense" and PC Gone Made etc etc you are very much mistaken.

Cabaal

eagle eye wrote: »

See the thing is that there are many religious people out there who believe in the Bible and believe that if you have sex with the same gender that you are sinning.
If somebody critics their beliefs and calls them homophobic they don't lose their jobs over it.
It's one-sided, the religious are now where the gay people were 25 years ago.
It was wrong then and it's wrong now too.

ah, the christian persecution complex.
I was waiting for when somebody would roll that classic one out.

Well done.

Now lets look at reality,
- Christians in the last 25 years (and more recently) have passed laws to restrict, criminalise and actually kill people just for being gay. Prior to 25 years ago they also enjoyed almost total freedom in making gay people's lives awful.
- NOW many backwards Christian's believe gay people are wrong and should burn in hell and in the context of this thread the christian involved believes god has murdered people with fire as as punishment for treating gay people equally. The same ex-rugby christian player broke the terms of his employment by spreading hate which he was previously warned about so he got fired.
- Meanwhile gay people 25 years ago and now merely want to be who they are without fear of people hating them.

But yeah, go ahead, its the Christian's that are being persecuted.
:rolleyes:

Honestly, there is not enough roll eye's in the world for this.

As I've said before, we would not be having this discussion if he said black people should burn in hell and god murdered people with fire as punishment for accepting black people.
We'd call him a racist and in this case we'll call him the homophobic dick that he is.

gmisk

Ariah Hallowed Spit wrote: »

Hungary decided it's had enough of it anyway, and has (unofically) 'withdrawn' from the Eurovision 2020 sing-song show.
Citing it as being 'too gay'. It is a bit gay in fairness, maybe moreso since the chap in the dress took to the stage.

Ah well can't say they'll be missed (musically).

I think you might be confusing being 'too gay' with camp .

Your bang wrong about Hungary btw they have had loads of class songs recently, skeletons, if love was a crime, bones.

eagle eye

Cabaal wrote:

ah, the christian persecution complex. I was waiting for when somebody would roll that classic one out.

I'm not Christian, I'm not religious so no complex here.
I have pointed out many times in this thread that I don't agree with Folau but I do believe he has the right to voice his religious opinion.
Obviously you are one of those people who just don't bother following the thread but look for a post that suits your agenda and presume you know everything about the person. In this instance you got it badly wrong.

salmocab

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not Christian, I'm not religious so no complex here.
I have pointed out many times in this thread that I don't agree with Folau but I do believe he has the right to voice his religious opinion.
Obviously you are one of those people who just don't bother following the thread but look for a post that suits your agenda and presume you know everything about the person. In this instance you got it badly wrong.

He has the right to voice his religious opinion that hasn’t changed he’s as free now to do that as he was before all this.

Lefty Bicek

Bannasidhe wrote: »

In case it you have missed it this thread is about an Australian rugby player who was dismissed from his job in Australia by his employer Australian Rugby.

And the only reason this society, as you put it, wouldn't tolerate it in 2019 is because an awful lot of people campaigned, lobbied, and took the risk of coming out to make sure it wouldn't be tolerated.

And if you think all that work wasn't called "LGBT Nonsense" and PC Gone Made etc etc you are very much mistaken.

Actually, this thread is about 'we'. The word 'we' is in the title.

In case you missed it, 'we' are not in Australia.

The catalyst for the discussion may be events in Australia, but are Australian working conditions really the central point ?

On an Irish 'Atheism and Agnosticism' forum ?

No, they are not. Less grandstanding, please.

smacl

eagle eye wrote: »

Obviously you are one of those people who just don't bother following the thread but look for a post that suits your agenda and presume you know everything about the person. In this instance you got it badly wrong.

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Less grandstanding, please.

Mod warning: Attack the post and not the poster please. Thanks for your attention.

Cabaal

eagle eye wrote: »

I have pointed out many times in this thread that I don't agree with Folau but I do believe he has the right to voice his religious opinion.
.

Nobody has argued that he doesn't have this right,

But his employer equally has the right to sack him for breaking the terms of his contract and damaging his employers image. Which they did and rightly so.
Equally, nobody has to respect anything he says and are equally free to call him the homophobic dick that he is.

eagle eye wrote: »

thread but look for a post that suits your agenda and presume you know everything about the person. In this instance you got it badly wrong.

Agenda?
Oh please do tell, what is my agenda?


I notice you've not addressed how I've ripped about your outright silly claim that Christian's are being persecuted....I suppose it makes sense to that claim now that I've shown that claim to be false, misleading and downright insulting to the gay people that have been murdered just for being gay.

Some of these murders are downright twisted, for example in one situation a gay man was anally rapped with a power washer in Brazil and he died from the massive internal injury's, meanwhile the Christian president of Brazil has caused a massive increase in hate crime against gay people due to his outspoken views and hatred towards them.
The Brazilian presidents has christian persecution complex as he believes gay people are attacking Brazil and its values, typical nonsense from a nutcase.

eagle eye

Cabaal wrote:

Agenda? Oh please do tell, what is my agenda?

Your agenda is to bash religion.
As a non-religious person I find you every bit as bad as those who try force religion down your throat.
You talk about mis-treatment of gay people and the crazed views of some people and actions of some. You do realise that there are gay gangs nowadays who beat people up?

Bannasidhe

eagle eye wrote: »

You do realise that there are gay gangs nowadays who beat people up?

Going to need a link from a reputable source for that.

eagle eye

Bannasidhe wrote:

Going to need a link from a reputable source for that.

No you can **** off and don't be so lazy and find it yourself. There is even a book about it.

robindch

eagle eye wrote: »

No you can **** off and don't be so lazy and find it yourself. There is even a book about it.

You have been carded for breaking the forum charter - specifically, Rule 1 about the requirement for civility. Please read the charter before posting again in A+A:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054860288

Turtwig

eagle eye wrote: »

No you can **** off and don't be so lazy and find it yourself. There is even a book about it.

Part of the tenets of a basic constructive discussion is that when people ask you to substantiate an argument you do so. In this case it would be very much appreciated if you could provide the links to the material the poster requested.

pauldla

eagle eye wrote: »

Your agenda is to bash religion.
As a non-religious person I find you every bit as bad as those who try force religion down your throat.
You talk about mis-treatment of gay people and the crazed views of some people and actions of some. You do realise that there are gay gangs nowadays who beat people up?

Did that happen inside your head or outside your head...?

eagle eye

Turtwig wrote:

Part of the tenets of a basic constructive discussion is that when people ask you to substantiate an argument you do so. In this case it would be very much appreciated if you could provide the links to the material the poster requested.

If it was difficult to find I'd post a link but when it's easy to find I'm not going doing the work for others. In the time it took to quote my post and ask me to do it for them they'd have had it themselves.

smacl

eagle eye wrote: »

If it was difficult to find I'd post a link but when it's easy to find I'm not going doing the work for others. In the time it took to quote my post and ask me to do it for them they'd have had it themselves.

Thus in the time it took you to post the above you could have posted the link rather than continue with the above. Maybe just post your link.