Leaf - won't go into Drive mode

oinkely

Just checking if anyone has had a similar issue. 132 gen 1.5 leaf tekna. Was fine until wife went to go to work this morning. Car turns on, but the 'press brake pedal and push button' warning comes on every time, doesn't recognise that the brake is pressed. Won't go into D or R, no green car appearing on the dash. Will toggle between P and N.

I checked that the brake lights wee coming on in case it was something simple like a switch at the pedal gone faulty, but they are coming on, so unless there are two switches????

Thought it might be the 12v getting low as it was still on the original so went and bought a new one, no difference. Also tried the battery from my leaf and no difference.

Googling has not enlightened me any further, most threads seem to point to the 12v but I have ruled that out as an issue.

Any ideas?

KCross

Do you have LeafSpy? Or get someone nearby to check it for you.
Check for error codes.

oinkely

Tried to get the dongle i have working, NADA. It worked before, just won't connect to the phone. Have a friend coming tomorrow with a diagnostic computer to have a look. I'll update then, just seeing if anyone had similar problems and there was a simple fix...... Wishful thinking

KCross

Probably not it but any chance the fob battery is low?

Try putting the fob up against the start button and then trying the startup sequence.

Worth a try anyway.

Soarer

I reckon the original 12V is knackered, caused an error, and the error is stopping the new battery from starting the car. Also, there's no saying the new battery is charged enough to start the car, especially if bought off the shelf.
Obviously the battery you took from your car is ok.
Put that in, and press the power button twice without pressing the brake. You should be able to use your dongle then to clear the errors.

oinkely

brief udpate - it appears to be serious. Motor inverter or something like that coming up as faulty. It will most likely have to go to Nissan.

KCross

oinkely wrote: »

brief udpate - it appears to be serious. Motor inverter or something like that coming up as faulty. It will most likely have to go to Nissan.

When there are 12V issues you get all sorts of weird error codes that arent real.

I presume you cleared all the codes and tried again? Did the error just reappear?

What codes is LeafSpy showing?

Soarer

As KCross asked, have you run LeafSpy and cleared the errors?

Have a look at the attached file. When my 12V was weak, I was getting all sorts of errors.

I changed the 12V, ran LeafSpy to clear everything, and I've not had an issue in over a month now.

The main dealer is a last resort!

oinkely

Just checking if anyone is near Dun Laoghaire/ kilcoole who could lend me an OBD dongle to check this? Just back from holidays and need to get this sorted out now! Tried the dongle that I was pretty sure had worked in the past but no joy connecting. I do have another one I found in the drawer at home that might work but was pretty sure the one i tried was the one that worked in the past.

FWIW, my friend who checked it for me did it with a Teng OBD computer thing. But as i was going away the next day and he was in a rush i wasn't paying too much attention.

oinkely

Nissan called me back today. Inverter failed, can't say why. Repair bill will be 9500. Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh

Guy in deansgrange said nissan Ireland will do nothing.

Anyone know of anybody independent who might be able to look at it?

zilog_jones

What do you mean by "nissan Ireland will do nothing"?

Soarer

Did you send it to the dealer without running LeafSpy or changing the 12V battery?

What tests do Nissan do to check the inverter besides reading the error codes? Because if they're just reading the codes, it could well be the 12V causing the problem.

Soarer

zilog_jones wrote: »

What do you mean by "nissan Ireland will do nothing"?

I assume he means they won't cover it under warranty, or meet him halfway or something.

oinkely

Before sending to Nissan:

Replaced 12v battery (first with the one from our other leaf and then with a brand new one).
Read codes from Teng OBD Computer and leaf spy - cleared but came back same.

Would not go into D or R mode.

Paid for a tow truck to Nissan Deansgrange, was with them a week and they got back to me today with quote for repair of €9500.
Simply said inverter failure and can give no further details like why etc.

Best bit is if i do get them to repair it, a €9500 repair comes with a 1 year warranty.

I thought we were signing up to the greatest and cheapest form of transport here!

Soarer

oinkely wrote: »

Before sending to Nissan:

Replaced 12v battery (first with the one from our other leaf and then with a brand new one).
Read codes from Teng OBD Computer and leaf spy - cleared but came back same.

Would not go into D or R mode.

Paid for a tow truck to Nissan Deansgrange, was with them a week and they got back to me today with quote for repair of €9500.
Simply said inverter failure and can give no further details like why etc.

Best bit is if i do get them to repair it, a €9500 repair comes with a 1 year warranty.

I thought we were signing up to the greatest and cheapest form of transport here!

That's a kick in the bollox. Basically the car is a write-off.

Very unlucky.

oinkely

I will try both Nissan Ireland and UK to see if either will do anything, guy in Windsor Deansgrange said that as it was a UK import Nissan Ireland most likely will do nothing in terms of warranty or goodwill despite it being 8 months out of warranty.

KCross

oinkely wrote: »

I will try both Nissan Ireland and UK to see if either will do anything, guy in Windsor Deansgrange said that as it was a UK import Nissan Ireland most likely will do nothing in terms of warranty or goodwill despite it being 8 months out of warranty.

Its a european warranty so the country doesnt matter.

But if its outside warranty then that is a problem.

You need to start looking at getting a scrapped Leaf and getting the inverter etc from that.

oinkely

KCross wrote: »

Its a european warranty so the country doesnt matter.

But if its outside warranty then that is a problem.

You need to start looking at getting a scrapped Leaf and getting the inverter etc from that.

Yep, outside the 5 year warranty by 8 months.

Problem is if I get one from a scrapped one can I find someone to swap it? Not sure that it's going to be a DIY job, though have done a gearbox swap in a Fiat before! I own spanners........ but messing about with the HV system is probably not wise!

Can you ask Nissan if the inverter needs coded? Working on the hv components should be safe once you pull the safety plug from under the rear tunnel cover. You'd need to drain the coolant etc but doesn't sound like a rocket surgery to swap the parts and the inverter is accessible from the top. And you could upgrade to 6.6 kW charger at the same time if you don't have one atm.

Go on, do it. A gearbox is harder to do I reckon.

Might also be worth asking if BBA reman could find what's wrong with the old unit. And there is currenlty a 2015 inverter on sale on ebay for 1/10 of the price from Nissan.

oinkely

samih wrote: »

Can you ask Nissan if the inverter needs coded? Working on the hv components should be safe once you pull the safety plug from under the rear tunnel cover. You'd need to drain the coolant etc but doesn't sound like a rocket surgery to swap the parts and the inverter is accessible from the top. And you could upgrade to 6.6 kW charger at the same time if you don't have one atm.

Go on, do it. A gearbox is harder to do I reckon.

Might also be worth asking if BBA reman could find what's wrong with the old unit. And there is currenlty a 2015 inverter on sale on ebay for 1/10 of the price from Nissan.

I'm thinking that might be the way to go

slave1

Twitter is your friend.....

Soarer

I don't think Twitter is anybody's friend, tbh.

Probably a good source of information though!

youtube had some disassembly videos of the leaf power stack. Seems straight forward enough to work on these.

slave1

I meant OP needs to Tweet about it copying the likes of Nissan UK, Ireland, Top Gear etc

oinkely

Looking for a used inverter at the moment. One from ebay in the UK and the guy is checking shipping costs. Have put up a request on partfinder and findapart.

Anyone know of any breakers with a leaf gen 1.5 in at the moment?

oinkely

oinkely wrote: »

Looking for a used inverter at the moment. One from ebay in the UK and the guy is checking shipping costs. Have put up a request on partfinder and findapart.

Anyone know of any breakers with a leaf gen 1.5 in at the moment?

findapart.ie and start ringing. And get those 98-01 saab 9-5 headlamp rear covers (the larger one behind the dipped reflector) for your front suspension struts from the same yard.

scudodave

Bad form Nissan.

Hard to believe that a 132 car is a possible economic write off because of massive parts charges.

Best of luck to op.

Mike9832

scudodave wrote: »

Bad form Nissan.

Hard to believe that a 132 car is a possible economic write off because of massive parts charges.

Best of luck to op.

Electric cars can't go wrong

Only 20 moving parts

We keep hearing

No one talks about Tesla drive trains costing €20,000+ if they go wrong

Hope it works out OP

Have you tried any auto electrics?

KCross

oinkely wrote: »

Looking for a used inverter at the moment. One from ebay in the UK and the guy is checking shipping costs. Have put up a request on partfinder and findapart.

Anyone know of any breakers with a leaf gen 1.5 in at the moment?

If the previous recommendations above dont work out for you I'd recommend you talk to this guy...

https://www.indra.co.uk/about-us

The owner, Mike Schooling, is a regular poster on the UK forum and has been working with EV drivetrains and the Leaf for years and has swapped out inverters before and reconditions battery packs etc.

imo, he's probably the top 1 or 2 guys in the UK for EV drivetrain repairs.

He might even be able to source an inverter for you or he might have contacts in Ireland.

If the worse came to the worse you could put the car on a trailer and for a few hundred ferry it over to him. Cant be worse than what Nissan Irl have offered you anyway!

I'd take an educated guess that your own inverter might even be repairable. It could be only some small component of the inverter thats gone but the local Nissan dealer would have no clue about power electronics and will simply dump the lot and charge for a complete replacement.

Anyway, defo give him a call and see what he says, that'll cost you nothing.

KCross

Just to add another data point.... had a quick search for his posts on the UK forum and he gave a rough quote of £1500 to replace the entire motor/inverter/charger stack from a scrap car. He keeps the spares at hand himself, swaps that into your car and keeps yours and repairs it for stock.

That's reasonable money and that was a few years ago... might be cheaper now.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/leaf-major-repair-costs.12746/

oinkely

thanks all,

Think I have an inverter sourced. And i have an ex-nissan mechanic who is fully trained on leafs to do the swap.

I'll update when done.

Soarer

Definitely takes pictures and record what's done.

Scottie99

This ex Nissan EV mechanic could be very useful for all of us Leaf owners.

macnab

oinkely wrote: »

thanks all,

Think I have an inverter sourced. And i have an ex-nissan mechanic who is fully trained on leafs to do the swap.

I'll update when done.

@oinkely, Hang onto the old inverter, I would love to get my hands on it to diagnose the fault. Feel free to PM me if you are happy to loan it to me.

macnab

macnab wrote: »

@oinkely, Hang onto the old inverter, I would love to get my hands on it to diagnose the fault. Feel free to PM me if you are happy to loan it to me.

I fully agree. These inversters don't appear to have any design fault that would make all of them fail and I can't remember reading somebody ever needing one before. Bad soldering joint or something similar would be a great result. And then you can keep the old inverter as a spare and/or aside just in case somebody at Boards needs one too.

KCross

I'd bet that Indra.co.uk would buy it off him. It definitely has value so should be used to reduce his cost to repair.

ltd440

Op so sorry to read about your car issues and best of luck with the repair, I would be crushed if that happened to me. I don't think I can recommend an out of warranty ev to someone any more just incase ( however unlikely) something this expensive could happen to them.
Did your mechanic give any idea how long it will take to fit the inverter?

ltd440

ltd440 wrote: »

Op so sorry to read about your car issues and best of luck with the repair, I would be crushed if that happened to me. I don't think I can recommend an out of warranty ev to someone any more just incase ( however unlikely) something this expensive could happen to them.
Did your mechanic give any idea how long it will take to fit the inverter?

Repair for the new parts is not realistic but swapping a second hand part is not too bad if you can get the part handy. I suspect he labour will be somewhere between replacing a thermostat and timing belt+water pump combo on a regular car and your hands don't get dirty by oily bits as there are none. And it's all accessible from under the bonnet on top of the electric motor so access is easy too.

beauf

KCross wrote: »

If the previous recommendations above dont work out for you I'd recommend you talk to this guy...

https://www.indra.co.uk/about-us

The owner, Mike Schooling, is a regular poster on the UK forum ...

Which UK forum?

KCross

beauf wrote: »

Which UK forum?

speakev

beauf

oinkely wrote: »

Nissan called me back today. Inverter failed, can't say why. Repair bill will be 9500. Aaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh

Guy in deansgrange said nissan Ireland will do nothing.

Anyone know of anybody independent who might be able to look at it?

I was trying to think of something to equate this with in a ice car and all I could was a catastrophic crash. Rebuild etc.

Is there any ev that has a warranty or you can extend to cover these kinds of costs? At this age?

beauf

beauf wrote: »

I was trying to think of something to equate this with in a ice car and all I could was a catastrophic crash. Rebuild etc.

Is there any ev that has a warranty or you can extend to cover these kinds of costs? At this age?

Our neigbours 151 Qashqai CVT box failed when out of factory warranty and the repair bill was 7k. Luckily for them it was bought second hand from a dealer and was under their warranty. A totally failed engine replaced at a dealer could be up to 10k.

But I think 9.5k in case of failed inverter is a totally scandalous price for a relatively simple component and labour.

beauf

I was forgetting that we are talking dealer prices EV and ICE.

ltd440

samih wrote: »

Repair for the new parts is not realistic but swapping a second hand part is not too bad if you can get the part handy. I suspect he labour will be somewhere between replacing a thermostat and timing belt+water pump combo on a regular car and your hands don't get dirty by oily bits as there are none. And it's all accessible from under the bonnet on top of the electric motor so access is easy too.

As you say, if you can get the part handy and if you understand the work that needs doing and if you can get a mechanic that can actually do the work. And saying that the work is easy to do doesn't mean it will be cheap.
Homechargers were a few hundred euros to install a few years ago because they were relatively easy work and only a few guys installing them, now there is a lot more guys doing the installs yet prices are skyrocketing

oinkely

Rumor has it that the replacement inverter is due to arrive with the mechanic today form the wilds of Tralee. I'll update again if and when it does and when the job is done.

Hopefully we will be back on the road next week, luckily not stuck for transport as we have another leaf and a diesel for towing duties. I'm sick putting diesel into it though for the commute to work! Can't wait to have my wife's leaf repaired so I can have mine back! Using a clutch in traffic is an unusual and cruel form of torture.

Toyotafanboi

Mike9832 wrote: »

Electric cars can't go wrong

Only 20 moving parts

We keep hearing

No one talks about Tesla drive trains costing €20,000+ if they go wrong

Hope it works out OP

Have you tried any auto electrics?

Sorry, I don't have much to add, it's interesting the whole "moving parts" quote you hear so much about though when EV's are being shilled, that you've fallen victim to, to an extent.

A part doesn't have to move to fail, as you now know. That and the reality is that the majority of failures in modern ICE cars are not from moving parts anyway, they are more often than not electronic component, software or wiring issues. Non consumable "moving part" technology is pretty much at it's peak and rarely gives issues, unless it's a BMW timing chain .

Have seen a few inverter failures at this point in work, obviously very disappointing from your point of view, but as stated in this thread, should now perhaps be a consideration in used EV or Hybrid ownership.

The Leaf inverter seems particularly expensive though, what was the itemised quote from Nissan and how much is the second hand part? Are you getting a warranty with the second hand item? I think you do right going with the used item but curious about the facts and figures of it!

The part pricing from Nissan suggests that these inverters never fail. You can be unlucky at any given time but it's unusual for a properly designed fully solid state device to fail in the middle of the bathtub curve. In this case it most likely is something like a marginal solder joint that just eventually gave up.

in the ICE world the most common electrical issues would be hightly stressed components like ignition coils, air flow meters, oxygen sensors or mechatronics like ABS pumps and old school mechanical air flow meters. ECUs or other electrical components without moving parts hardly ever fail unless they are designed wrong. The same seems to be the case with EVs.

A properly spec'd and designed inverter should last forever and this seem to also be the case with the LEAF unit: There have been cases of cars with hundreds of thousands of kilometers on the clock with the original inverter. It's exactly the same as with computer hardware: Harddrives fail but the motherboards and CPUs hardware ever unless there is a design fault on the motherboard or the likes of too cheap components used as cooling fans or capacitors. The only exception to the rule of fully solid state failing devices in computers are flash memory devices like SSDs. We scrapped some Sun Microsystems computers at work recently and the oldest ones were from year 2001, were powered on 24/7, and the failure rate has been exceptionally low including the disks and fans. The spare parts would not have been even available for them since like 2006. These were properly designed electronics and would have probably lasted for another 18 years of use but they just had become beyond obsolete. I would expect the most of the electronics of a LEAF be the same.

The failing Tesla Model S drive units get mentioned a lot and there was a good reason why the bearings of them failed: They had a design fault where the motor earthed through a bearing and the resulting sparking killed said bearing in a short while. Sometimes these things happen when you design something brand new that nobody else ever designed but Tesla have learned their lesson, the bearing no longer carries any current, and now the drive units on for example Model 3 are spec'd to last million miles plus and the same units will also used in a HGV application. Try to do the same with say VW Passat transmission.

OP, please take on the offer of troubleshooting the failed inverter so that we all find out what causes the failure.

Orebro

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Sorry, I don't have much to add, it's interesting the whole "moving parts" quote you hear so much about though when EV's are being shilled, that you've fallen victim to, to an extent.

A part doesn't have to move to fail, as you now know. That and the reality is that the majority of failures in modern ICE cars are not from moving parts anyway, they are more often than not electronic component, software or wiring issues. Non consumable "moving part" technology is pretty much at it's peak and rarely gives issues, unless it's a BMW timing chain .

Have seen a few inverter failures at this point in work, obviously very disappointing from your point of view, but as stated in this thread, should now perhaps be a consideration in used EV or Hybrid ownership.

The Leaf inverter seems particularly expensive though, what was the itemised quote from Nissan and how much is the second hand part? Are you getting a warranty with the second hand item? I think you do right going with the used item but curious about the facts and figures of it!

Ah here, this is the first major failure of an EV component in my time reading this forum. Head over to the main motors forum and things are a little different!

And anyway, there is a reasonable way out of this with the likes of Indra in the UK doing it for handy money. Bit of a dose getting it to them yes but worth the hassle for the savings. It's not like this is common on the Leaf, first I've seen one.

Toyotafanboi

Orebro wrote: »

Ah here, this is the first major failure of an EV component in my time reading this forum. Head over to the main motors forum and things are a little different!

...

It's not like this is common on the Leaf, first I've seen one.

Sure, it's the first one you've seen, but the gene pool is much smaller. Just a glance at beepbeep.ie, in 2013 there was 630 EV and Hybrid vehicles (or just 49 full fat EV's) reg'd in Ireland vs 73,000 ICE. I know this doesn't indicate grey imports in the mean time etc but it gives an idea, vs failures noted on the main forum.

If there was more of them, you'd see more fail I'm sure.

I agree, it's likely a weak solder joint or something simple along those lines, but the fact remains, it's still a failure and not an item you can pick up in a motor factors for €100. I'd be interested in how much the used unit is costing to see how much potential "EV saving" it could be wiping out, similar to say a dual mass flywheel or injector failure in a diesel car vs a petrol.

Toyotafanboi

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Sure, it's the first one you've seen, but the gene pool is much smaller. Just a glance at beepbeep.ie, in 2013 there was 630 EV and Hybrid vehicles (or just 49 full fat EV's) reg'd in Ireland vs 73,000 ICE. I know this doesn't indicate grey imports in the mean time etc but it gives an idea, vs failures noted on the main forum.

If there was more of them, you'd see more fail I'm sure.

I agree, it's likely a weak solder joint or something simple along those lines, but the fact remains, it's still a failure and not an item you can pick up in a motor factors for €100. I'd be interested in how much the used unit is costing to see how much potential "EV saving" it could be wiping out, similar to say a dual mass flywheel or injector failure in a diesel car vs a petrol.

There are hundreds of thousands of LEAFs on the road. If this was a widespread issue you'd know all about it. Also comparing an inverter to a consumable like a DMF is not right as is has no moving parts and it doesn't wear out. Fitting a working used part is absolutely right thing to do. There will never be a motorfactor 100 yoyo part equivalent for something that is very specific to a model of vehicle that normally doesn't fail.

oinkely

This is generating a lively debate, I'm glad to see my troubles have an upside! Costs so far for this event are €210 for towing (to Nissan and then from Nissan to indy garage). €500 for used inverter plus €70 to deliver it from the bowels of Kerry (note it hasn't arrived yet so we will have to reserve judgement as to final cost for the moment). No idea of the mechanic cost yet, but if it's less than €9000 i'm on a winner ;-)

To be fair, the headline price from Nissan was shocking. The part including VAT was €6400 so I guess they were charging around €3k for fitting. The service manager in deansgrange was very sound about it in the end and didn't charge me for the diagnostic work they did, and was quite apologetic that the part cost so much. I also moaned to Nissan Ireland and they rang me back with an offer of a €2k reduction on the part as a goodwill gesture. The person with whom I was speaking said they had replaced 1 inverter ever under warranty so it is rare for them to fail. I took this as a good sign for going for a second hand one from a breaker!

I think we just hit bad luck with this one, but there is light at the end of the tunnel and will hopefully get out of it for less than the slipped timing belt in my old VW transporter cost me or the the broken timing belt in my previous fiat multisplat cost. I have a long history of bad luck with cars so not too surprised really!

I will arrange with the previous poster to pass on the damaged inverter when it is available to see if a fault can be identified. Again, I'll update as progress is made.

Just to add - it won't put me off leafs or EVs in general - I'm still an EVangelist, just slightly tempered my zealousness now!