Age to start school

Tiredandcranky

Looking for a bit of advice, maybe from some parents who have been in a similar situation.

My DS will be 4 1/2 this September and we don’t know whether to start him in school this year or next.

I’m not trying to boast or anything, but he is extremely bright. His preschool teacher said his level of ability in language etc is exceptional. Socially he’s pretty capable i.e. he likes playing with other kids. However, he can be quite cranky, and irritable at times e.g. . So, I’d imagine he won’t be the most popular child. But my hunch is that’s just his personality and a year won’t change it.

I’ve read all the stuff about kids being better off starting school later rather than sooner. But my question is, does that necessarily apply to a very bright child? Would they perhaps be better starting school earlier? We are so good to soak up information when we are young, is it better to keep a child challenged in terms of learning.

I don’t try to teach him anything at home. But recently he’s started taking an interest in words and alphabet, and wants to start writing letters by himself. He can also count objects very well up to about 20. Looking at the junior infants curriculum, it only has counting to 5.... does this mean school will be very dull for him? I loved school and learning always, and I want him to find the same joy in it.

His preschool is excellent by the way, but it’s obviously very play based with little emphasis on formal learning. I’m just afraid if we hold him back that he’ll be bored next year, and he won’t get to take advantage of those precious early years when you can develop a real love of learning.

Any advice/ comments welcome?
We’re very confused and undecided!!

Thanks

jlm29

What month is his birthday?
Have you asked the preschool what they think? They’re usually very good to judge these things.

salmocab

I’d leave him the year, he would always be the youngest in the class most likely and possibly by a good few months which at that age can be a big difference. If he’s really that bright he’ll still be bright next year and a year more mature.

NashD

My first is a February baby so I'm following out of interest. She loves her creche and I would also class her as intelligent and social.

But none of that prepares her for what happens when she starts secondary - relationships/drinking/social media or whatever it will be in the next decade.

I would prefer her to be one of the older kids in her group. Someone pointed out to me recently that starting her at 4.5 could mean she is starting with almost 6 years olds and down the line I think that could potentially mean she is more innocent and naive and easily swayed. But who knows! Right now she is a tough cookie and the boss in her class.

My husband is on the other side of the fence, leaving her until 5.5 years would mean she is in her preschool class for 3 years and has probably had to see all her buddies heading off to school without her. He thinks she will be bored and should start school at 4.5 years. I don't think boredom is enough of a merit though... I mean what happens if she is bored in 3rd class or 2nd year...

Tiredandcranky

jlm29 wrote: »

What month is his birthday?
Have you asked the preschool what they think? They’re usually very good to judge these things.

Late January birthday.
The preschool recommends all kids stay as long as possible in preschool (I.e. use up the free ecce years). That’s the advice they give to everyone as they believe kids start school too young in Ireland anyway, and shouldn’t be in formal education until they’re 7. Apparently that’s how it’s done in Sweden / Finland ... not sure exactly where.., one of the Nordic countries.

Tiredandcranky

jlm29 wrote: »

What month is his birthday?
Have you asked the preschool what they think? They’re usually very good to judge these things.

jlm29 wrote: »

What month is his birthday?
Have you asked the preschool what they think? They’re usually very good to judge these things.

Late January birthday.
The preschool recommends all kids stay as long as possible in preschool (I.e. use up the free ecce years). That’s the advice they give to everyone as they believe kids start school too young in Ireland anyway, and shouldn’t be in formal education until they’re 7. Apparently that’s how it’s done in Sweden / Finland ... not sure exactly where.., one of the Nordic countries.

Tiredandcranky

NashD wrote: »

My first is a February baby so I'm following out of interest. She loves her creche and I would also class her as intelligent and social.

But none of that prepares her for what happens when she starts secondary - relationships/drinking/social media or whatever it will be in the next decade.

I would prefer her to be one of the older kids in her group. Someone pointed out to me recently that starting her at 4.5 could mean she is starting with almost 6 years olds and down the line I think that could potentially mean she is more innocent and naive and easily swayed. But who knows! Right now she is a tough cookie and the boss in her class.

My husband is on the other side of the fence, leaving her until 5.5 years would mean she is in her preschool class for 3 years and has probably had to see all her buddies heading off to school without her. He thinks she will be bored and should start school at 4.5 years. I don't think boredom is enough of a merit though... I mean what happens if she is bored in 3rd class or 2nd year...

Good point on the teenage years. Maybe we get our maturity level from the group we hang around with though? I mean, if you’re a 13 year old hanging around mostly with 12 year olds, my guess is you probably still have attitudes and behavior more like a 12 year olds than 13 year olds,
That said, the extra year couldn’t do any harm in that case.
Is 19 very old to do the leaving though?

Fr Tod Umptious

Hi OP
Our kids, born in February, March, June and December all started when they were 5.
So the December child was close to 6 when they started.

I think it's better to start them later.

Think of when they are going to secondary school or starting college.

Better to be that bit older and (hopefully) more mature is what we reckoned.

The one draw back is that if they ever had to repeat a year or stay back they would be much older, but if you kid is a bright kid then that may never be an issue for you.

SusieBlue

The later the better, leave till 5 if at all possible. It isn't even a matter of intelligence, its a matter of social skills and coping methods for the big change. The extra time to mature and adjust will do no harm.
I also agree its better for them to be that little bit older in secondary - otherwise you'll be in a situation where your 16 and a half year old is going to be hanging around with kids who are already 18 and wanting to do all the things they're allowed, and all that comes with it.

NashD

Tiredandcranky wrote: »

Is 19 very old to do the leaving though?

Yeah see that's the other side of things and I think transition year is pretty mandatory in Dublin schools so it's not like she can skip that.

Wish there wasn't a choice so I didn't have to try and guess what she will be like/want in 10/20 years!!!

Maybe her school will be oversubscribed and force us to leave her until 5.5 years.....

rubberdungeon

If a child turns 18 during 5th or 6th year, child benefit will cease as child benefit is not paid for any child dependant aged 18 or older, even if they stay in education or training.

Teepinaw

Had a January baby that started at 4.5. I knew she was ready and is thriving now.
Had a September baby that had to wait until 5 and they are both getting on fine.

My thinking was that they can stay back in secondary or whatever if it was deemed to be necessary.

They're flying at the homework, reading, writing.

Bandana boy

I actually started at 3 (was 4 a day later ) I was always by far the youngest in my year through primary and secondary.
It gave me no bother till I went to college were I was probably to young for that level of freedom and I went of the rails a little.

jester77

When are his friends starting school?

At that age I think he would be fine, but if most of his friends are not starting for another year then it may be worth considering to wait.

School is not just about books, another thing to consider is sports. He would be competing against kids that are physically stronger and more mature during school activities, and it could create some self esteem issues down the road if he struggles with this or is not getting picked for teams.

TrixIrl

Just a side thought, I was 4.5 starting school (Jan bday).

Being one of the youngest in the class meant I couldn't really go out with the 18 year olds in 6th year as I was only 17 do pub/club access was limited and my parents had a "legit" excuse about it so there was no disagreement about it. Now obvo I got out enough but it wasn't taken as given.

Also, I chose to take a year out to earn rent money for my first year in college/not be 17 years old for first college semester and I got amazing experience which led to part-time employment the whole way through college and great experience at living away without the student drinking culture. As a result I felt much more mature going into 1st year of college.

Digs

The starting age so depends on the child.

However it’s not really academics you need to be concerned about but are they socially ready? Can he put on his coat himself, open fiddly things in his lunch box, confident going to the loo alone. Ok in group situations, able to cope and confident with his peers?

That’s the stuff you really need to give thought to and if on the fence the extra year won’t do him any harm.

My eldest started at 4.5, she’s in senior infants and no regrets with her. Whereas I’m almost certain we’ll keep our second until 5. She’s not as outgoing and socially confident as her older sister. Third baby is November baby so that decides for us.

Flippyfloppy

Tiredandcranky wrote: »

Good point on the teenage years. Maybe we get our maturity level from the group we hang around with though? I mean, if you’re a 13 year old hanging around mostly with 12 year olds, my guess is you probably still have attitudes and behavior more like a 12 year olds than 13 year olds,
That said, the extra year couldn’t do any harm in that case.
Is 19 very old to do the leaving though?

What is too old to do the leaving though? Perhaps the extra maturity will be of benefit.

And being bored in preschool, they probably won’t be bored because they know no different. They may find the pace a bit slow in junior infants is the only thing but they probably won’t be the only one of that age.

My son is 5 in late October and I’ve been planning on starting him in September but this thread is making me doubt myself due to all the great points raised!

The high horse brigade

I don't see the big deal with starting at 4. I myself was 16 doing the LC (17 a few days days later), it didn't affect me in any way. Our son started school last September at 4 (born april) and is flying it. It's nonsense to be keeping kids that are ready away until they are 5 or 6

salmocab

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I don't see the big deal with starting at 4. I myself was 16 doing the LC (17 a few days days later), it didn't affect me in any way. Our son started school last September at 4 (born april) and is flying it. It's nonsense to be keeping kids that are ready away until they are 5 or 6

In fairness when you were going to school 4 was the standards age to start so you weren’t that young comparatively.

The J Stands for Jay

NashD wrote: »

My first is a February baby so I'm following out of interest. She loves her creche and I would also class her as intelligent and social.

I was a Feb baby and started school at 4. No issues to report.

The J Stands for Jay

I think for every kid, you need to assess how you think they'll get on and decide based on that rather than one age for very child. My youngest is also Feb, and we still don't know what age she'll be starting at. We'll decide closer to the time.

mvl

my one is a may child, we put her to school when she was 4 years/5 months.

- she's flying it, one of the smartest kids in the class; in her case there was no need to wait another year. and if i were to compare, another year @5 would have been still far from 7 (the age I started school on continental Europe) ...

The high horse brigade

salmocab wrote: »

In fairness when you were going to school 4 was the standards age to start so you weren’t that young comparatively.

It still is, there is no reason not to send a child that's ready at 4. Now I do realise not all are ready at 4, but there is no reason to move the age to 5 because some aren't ready

BIGT4464

Keep the kid another year, you are on the bubble although. My girl will be going at 5 and 2 months, this sept, just about right I think. Your call will be correct one eitherway.

salmocab

The high horse brigade wrote: »

It still is, there is no reason not to send a child that's ready at 4. Now I do realise not all are ready at 4, but there is no reason to move the age to 5 because some aren't ready

Well the guideline is to start school the year the child turns 5, the ecce scheme is designed for this too. Obviously every child is different and parents should do what they feel best.
Personally I wouldn’t want mine being the youngest by possibly a few months.

pc7

I was almost 5 starting and by the time I got to secondary school I thought I'd never get out of the place. I don't think I'd have stayed in school until I was almost 19. I was almost 18 leaving and that was late enough. Transition year wasn't in my school then either thankfully for me. My little one will be 4 and 10 months starting this year, I was going to hold them back but have noticed a huge leap in terms of social and practical ability over the last month. I spoke to the preschool and school and all said to start them this year.

poppies2

mvl wrote: »

my one is a may child, we put her to school when she was 4 years/5 months.

- she's flying it, one of the smartest kids in the class; in her case there was no need to wait another year. and if i were to compare, another year @5 would have been still far from 7 (the age I started school on continental Europe) ...

And mine was the same age starting and it was a total disaster! We really should have left them start the following year.

OP you will have for and against probably 50/50 no matter who you ask. What was said to me is you may regret starting younger but you rarely regret waiting a year. If there's the option to do a second year in preschool I would take it. My third could have started last year at 4 (June baby) and she is way ahead of what my May child was but I still waited and am very happy with my decision. I do think with the extra free ECCE year kids are a lot older starting now. My youngest would have been in a class where the average are turning 6 now, so quite a big gap.

hollymartins

My child will be 4.5 next year and as we live in Dublin I put his name down for schools when he was a baby.

I wasn't aware at the time that 4.5 years was considered young (I myself started school when I only turned 4). I had it worked out that he'd finish the 2 years ECCE scheme but then they changed the rules for that a year later!

What happens if we decide he's not ready next year? Does he go to the back of the list for the following year? The only thing stopping me from keeping him home until he's 5.5 is if he ends up at the bottom of the schools waiting lists and can't get a place.

poppies2

I'd say you'd need to contact the school itself to find out. I know someone who deffered her child's place and there was no problem she got the place the following year but in my child's preschool a parent told me only last week they missed out on their place this year having deffered last year in their chosen school.

hollymartins

Yes you're probably right, there's very little guidance out there for parents in relation to this.

mirrorwall14

On the feedback from crèche, and from the school ours (28th Jan) birthday is starting in September. We also discussed it with multiple close family members who are primary teachers from NQT to retired and all day he will be fine. We’ll see.

I was 18 in August of LC, 19 going into college and it did me no favours, I was older than my years and always the ‘responsible’ one. All my peers were younger than me, same in college. Even now years later I’m the first of everyone to be married, first to have kids etc etc.

hairyprincess

It’s far easier to hold a child back before they’ve started than when they are in school and have made friends.

I think you have to look at things at the other end, when they are doing their leaving cert and going to college. If they do a course which involves them having to do work experience which requires Garda vetting, they won’t be able to take part in that as a person has to be 18 to be vetted.

Also, from the point of view of going out with their college mates and living away from home they are far better off being that year older.

hollymartins

hairyprincess wrote: »

It’s far easier to hold a child back before they’ve started than when they are in school and have made friends.

I think you have to look at things at the other end, when they are doing their leaving cert and going to college. If they do a course which involves them having to do work experience which requires Garda vetting, they won’t be able to take part in that as a person has to be 18 to be vetted.

Also, from the point of view of going out with their college mates and living away from home they are far better off being that year older.

It's interesting that a few posters have mentioned the problems younger students might have when they're older. I wouldn't have thought of it but I was 17 going to college and away from home, it didn't cause any issues.

jester77

hollymartins wrote: »

It's interesting that a few posters have mentioned the problems younger students might have when they're older. I wouldn't have thought of it but I was 17 going to college and away from home, it didn't cause any issues.

Depends on when you went. I was also 17 when I went and there were no issues. But things were a lot more relaxed back then. There were happy hours, which are now illegal, with reduced prices for students and there was no such thing as checking for ID. So you never missed out on any of the social events which are an important part of the student life. That is not the case now.

hollymartins

jester77 wrote: »

Depends on when you went. I was also 17 when I went and there were no issues. But things were a lot more relaxed back then. There were happy hours, which are now illegal, with reduced prices for students and there was no such thing as checking for ID. So you never missed out on any of the social events which are an important part of the student life. That is not the case now.

My son being underage for 6 months of college isn't a compelling reason for me to start him later in school. Besides in 15 years time god knows what student drinking habits are like Nowadays they all seem to drink at home because they're so broke!

I think I'll just see how capable he is in dealing with the practicalities of big school like putting on his shoes, coat etc.

airy fairy

Your child may be as bright as a button, but most inevitably even out academically wise after the year in JI.
If your Montessori or playschool say to keep him there, then pay heed to this.
You also need to be aware that if there are any issues raised academically and he needs intervention, this will take its toll as he gets older and he ends up being at the younger end of the class. Repeating is nearly almost out of the question in primary.
Secondary is a minefield.
Parties, discos, age restrictions, social interaction etc, he will be friends with the majority being older, so the potentially will be 16.5years old attending 18 year old birthday parties.
Just because our child is bright academically, doesn't mean he'll be ready for the world at 17.

cuddlepunk

With my older children who are in their 20's now I started them in school when they were 5 (almost 6, October birthdays) they were always very advanced with their school work but where I found difficulty was when they were older and started hitting puberty before all their classmates etc. I started my younger 2 children just before they were 5 and both were able for the school work (well able) but we didn't have the same difficulty when they were older (ie. hitting puberty before the other children etc) Also my older children were over 18 when they finished school and it was just awkward.

hollymartins

airy fairy wrote: »

Your child may be as bright as a button, but most inevitably even out academically wise after the year in JI.
If your Montessori or playschool say to keep him there, then pay heed to this.
You also need to be aware that if there are any issues raised academically and he needs intervention, this will take its toll as he gets older and he ends up being at the younger end of the class. Repeating is nearly almost out of the question in primary.
Secondary is a minefield.
Parties, discos, age restrictions, social interaction etc, he will be friends with the majority being older, so the potentially will be 16.5years old attending 18 year old birthday parties.
Just because our child is bright academically, doesn't mean he'll be ready for the world at 17.

Not ready for the world at 17 but ready at 18? I know 30 something year olds who still struggle!

I don't know if my son is brighter than other children, he's just a normal 3 year old. I wouldn't send him if he's not ready or if his preschool advise against it. But if I think he's ready there seems to be an argument to still wait till he's 5?

The dilemma is if he ended up losing a place in a local school where his friends will go and goes to school a year later? Maybe to a different school miles away from the social group he knows.

I went to a different primary school than the rest of the children in my area as it suited my parents commute but it meant all my friends were in another town. That's not ideal either.

mirrorwall14

I ran the numbers though and my lad will be 17 in LC and turning 18 in the January of LC. That’s perfect in my opinion. Albeit I’m massively pro TY and he will be doing it unless something goes massively weong

Dravokivich

My son was born mid Jan and I wanted him in sooner than later. So he started at 4.5 and recently went 5. To be honest, he's fighting it now, but he would have absolutely hated being the oldest kid in creche, finished with montisorri and not an "after schooler." He would have been frustrated to hell.

tscul32

Personally I generally agree with starting the year they turn 5, but the problem is when your children are born around the boundary line. I started school at just turned 4, LC at 16 and 4 yr degree finished at 20. I wouldn't do it again. I was a quiet, non streetwise kid from a quiet-life family and although I was one of the smartest in the school I really struggled socially from secondary on, just felt out of my depth, that everyone else seemed so much older than me - I just wasn't ready for alcohol and boys when everyone else was.
A child should not be bored in school or preschool whatever their age or ability (doesn't always happen). If they're highly intelligent then at 5 they'd probably be at the top of the class whether it's JI or SI.
Mine all started at 4, but they were nov, dec and start of jan. I did think for a bit about the jan lad but he's the third, intelligent, capable, perfectly sociable, etc and I knew he'd be fine. I knew it because the older two have their own extra challenges, especially socially (starting a year later wouldn't have made a difference) and I could see that number 3 was years ahead of where the others were. I also have teachers in friends and family who all agreed he should start. He's in 1st class and many of his classmates are only turning 7 this month and last.

Another consideration is does the school have an age cut off. When a school is oversubscribed and too many fall into the same criteria on the enrolment policy then usually an age cut off is applied. We don't have one in our school as they aren't oversubscribed, they fill 5 classes and if they've enough over they usually fill a 6th. The next nearest school has their date back as far as November this year because of so many applicants. So children born after November won't be offered a place but will be top of the list the following year. So OP's child wouldn't be offered a place in that school to start at 4 anyway.

shesty

It's not now OP, it's the other end of primary school that you will see the problems.January is a very borderline month, although as someone else says, it does depend on your school's age cut-off too-it's November around here.I always think you will do them less harm sending them older, than younger.It's kind of all relative too, if a large majority of the class are 5 by the time they go in in September then he will always be in the younger end of the class, and always be trying to catch up (I don't mean academically).

I would be very much on the side of sending them at 5 too, and I think with the two ECCE years, kids are that bit older going in.It doesn't matter how bright he is.It's the social and emotional development that is the key thing-can he take no for an answer, can he handle not winning games, can he handle someone doing something he doesn't like, can he listen and follow an instruction, can he open his lunchbox himself,put on his coat himself....all that stuff.All of the kids in my little one's preschool are showing the same interest in counting, numbers, letters, writing etc, but most of them will be 5 going into JI.They will all start from scratch no matter what.

Tiredandcranky

Thanks for all the comments and advice. Some good comments and things I hadn’t thought about. Still haven’t made a decision but I’m hoping the poster that said ‘any decision will end up being the right decision’ is correct. I have a feeling they are. We’re orobably making too big a deal of the whole thing. He’ll adapt either way.

soc

Our DD is May baby. She turned 4 in 2017, and started Junior Infants the end of Aug/beg September (she was around 4years 3.5months). She's the youngest of 4 children, and was so eager to start Big School, that the transition for her was easy. Academically she was ahead for her age in preschool, and I knew she would get bored if she stayed another year there, and that could affect her going forward, as she'd just expect every grade after that to be super easy. I knew, she was ready for Big School, as personality wise she's a social butterfly, and academically we knew she was well prepared (she's similar to your fella), plus she was hounding us to go! She's now in Senior Infants, and will be turning 6 in May, and still enjoys school & her friends.

Basically OP you know your child and how they are academically & what their personality is. Reading your post, it sounds like your gut is telling you the answer, but you're just overthinking it. I say, if you think your child is ready, then go for it.

cyning

Just to bring up stuff that hadn’t been mentioned yet from the social side: things like football or soccer and age matter. So I have a 6.5 year old with a July birthday and was ready for school when she started at 5 socially: academically she struggles a bit but that would have been the case no matter what. She started soccer this year and no one under 2012 was allowed start: they don’t take them. So I have a 5 year old who will be starting in Sept: if I had started her this year (March birthday) she wouldn’t be able to do soccer with her friends next year as she would have been too young. Similarly football: she would be under 6s next year whereas the majority would be under 8s. She would have been almost a full year younger than most in her class: she is academically streets ahead of where her sister was, but socially I knew it would have continued for years where she would have been behind where her friends are in terms of clubs etc. And whereas that might not be an issue everywhere it certainly would be for her.... not that I would have been comfortable with her being a full year younger anyway. And it’s not something I realised until this year either when one of my little girls friends couldn’t play soccer because she is too young. They are all in senior infants and I know it’s extra curricular stuff but it may or may not be a consideration for you.

jlm29

I wouldn’t really worry about how bright your child. To be honest, an awful lot of people think their child is exceptionally bright, especially if their speech seems above average. My eldest boy was a real talker, great memory, always seemed to be really on the ball, it did even out a lot in the infant classes. He’s certainly not bottom of the class, but I doubt they’re in the staff room at break time discussing bringing in Mensa now!

The social stuff is way more important at that age, and there’s lots and lots of good points on the thread. You know your own child best at the end of the day. It is good to be guided on other kids and their ages too, at either end of the system. The point above on extra curricular activities is a good one, your child may feel left out if everyone in his class is a different age group for sports.
I think it is harder with the jan and feb birthdays though, I know of a few people who aren’t availing of the second ecce year, but sending kids to school at 4

pwurple

Not sure why people are saying he will be the youngest.. ours started school at 4 1/2 with March birthdays and neither of them are the youngest.

Our decisions were part financial and part ability. We simply couldn’t afford creche for the extra years at the time and the kids were well able. They are both thriving at school, no issues socially or acedemically.

Anne_cordelia

poppies2 wrote: »

And mine was the same age starting and it was a total disaster! We really should have left them start the following year.

OP you will have for and against probably 50/50 no matter who you ask. What was said to me is you may regret starting younger but you rarely regret waiting a year. If there's the option to do a second year in preschool I would take it. My third could have started last year at 4 (June baby) and she is way ahead of what my May child was but I still waited and am very happy with my decision. I do think with the extra free ECCE year kids are a lot older starting now. My youngest would have been in a class where the average are turning 6 now, so quite a big gap.

Big difference between a June and January baby though. From March onwards it’s a no brainer to keep the child until 5. The border months are Dec - Feb. And decision should be taken based on the child’s readiness. Not arbitrary timelines set by people on the internet

jlm29

pwurple wrote: »

Not sure why people are saying he will be the youngest.. ours started school at 4 1/2 with March birthdays and neither of them are the youngest.

Our decisions were part financial and part ability. We simply couldn’t afford creche for the extra years at the time and the kids were well able. They are both thriving at school, no issues socially or acedemically.

I think it’s because of the way the ecce has changed, particularly this year. If kids take up the two years of the ecce, anyone born after January will be 5& 9 months starting. Up to last year, it was configured a bit differently

mirrorwall14

There’s probably plenty like us tho, ours was due April start but started in September or there’d have been no place and we paid. So he’ll have had two full years of playschool and is still starting at 4 years 7 months

Edit: for this year at least. They moved everyone to September start dates after that

jlm29

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

There’s probably plenty like us tho, ours was due April start but started in September or there’d have been no place and we paid. So he’ll have had two full years of playschool and is still starting at 4 years 7 months

Edit: for this year at least. They moved everyone to September start dates after that

Lots of people did this I think. Even this year, with the September start, but the earlier birthday, I know people who are paying for preschool for year one, getting a free year for year two and sending kids to national school at 4.5. I think the only way it will ever change fully is if the schools actually make it policy and the DoE decides where the cut off should be and enforce it