Mother & Pram boarding bus

bobbyss

What experiences do you have of mothers with pram boarding bus?
Pouring rain. Crowded stop. Bus arrives. People rush to board leaving mother and pram last.

I tell driver there's a mother and pram waiting but he says 'Nothing I can do.' Is he right? I felt sorry for mother in the pouring rain. She eventually boarded. Should people just be courteous and let her board first?

AlekSmart

bobbyss wrote: »

What experiences do you have of mothers with pram boarding bus?
Pouring rain. Crowded stop. Bus arrives. People rush to board leaving mother and pram last.

I tell driver there's a mother and pram waiting but he says 'Nothing I can do.' Is he right? I felt sorry for mother in the pouring rain. She eventually boarded. Should people just be courteous and let her board first?

It is interesting that your first port-of-call is The Busdriver.

Would you have any suggestion as to what approach your Busdriver should take in dealing with the Crowd,who,presumably are still on the Public Footpath ?

Is your question re people being courteous a genuine one,or are you secretly hoping that somebody will actually answer...No,they should'nt ?

Assuming this to be a Dublin route,it could easily have 60+ individual Bus-Stops,each of which could feature a scenario such as you describe.

Your only Legal support would appear to be the Dublin Bus Bye-Laws (and a Draft version of the NTA bye-laws for other operators) which specifies....

https://www.dublinbus.ie/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Boarding-and-Alighting/

10. (1) Each passenger shall queue at a bus stop in an orderly manner.

10. (2) Where an authorised person is regulating the boarding and alighting from a vehicle, each passenger shall on arrival at a bus stop take up the position at the rear of the appropriate queue, move forward in an orderly and regular manner and obey the reasonable instructions of an authorised person regulating such queue and in the absence of such authorised person obey any notices displayed at the bus stop.

You may have identified a hitherto unkown opening for A "Queue Regulator" to enforce the Bye-Laws,although once intending passengers are behaving in an orderly manner,there remains nothing in Law,to enforce any courtesy requirements upon them ?

Perhaps it may well be just another example of Life not being fair ?

bobbyss

AlekSmart wrote:

Perhaps it may well be just another example of Life not being fair ?

Life not fair? I don't know.

It's a pity the bus driver didn't call out to the people to let the mother on first.
Can they lower the bus ? This acts as a signal to people.

Dravokivich

bobbyss wrote: »

Life not fair? I don't know.

It's a pity the bus driver didn't call out to the people to let the mother on first.
Can they lower the bus ? This acts as a signal to people.

No it doesn't. People will hop on as soon as they can.

gmisk

How do you feel about someone with a pram taking up the wheelchair space, refusing to move and someone on a wheelchair not being allowed on?
This happens a lot on my bus route.

Amirani

bobbyss wrote: »

Life not fair? I don't know.

It's a pity the bus driver didn't call out to the people to let the mother on first.
Can they lower the bus ? This acts as a signal to people.

Creates a potential problem in that the bus driver won't be aware of any queuing system in place. What if for example the mother has just arrived at the bus stop, while a few others at the stop had already been refused entry to the previous bus 20 minutes ago as it was full?

In general though, people should try and be courteous. All things being equal they should try and allow a mother with a young child to board before them.

bobbyss

Dravokivich wrote:

No it doesn't. People will hop on as soon as they can.

Yes. You are right. And I am as guilty of this as anyone. I felt so sorry for this woman who was a foreigner and very quiet. I told her to go ahead of me and asked others to let her on first but to no avail. I was imagining myself in her position in the rain and effectively being the last one on. I wouldn't like it.

punisher5112

Oh god, it's Ireland it rains, why should we feel sorry for a mother in the rain.

I'm sick to death with people coming to me as a driver to solve all their woes......

People are supposed to Q orderly and single file behind the bus stop pole.... Nobody does.

Wheelchair users do be left as everyone bursts their way on.

I'm sick to death with buggies and the problems they bring.

I had one recently get on the fella goes get my wife a seat.... I was like what??? Can you not see she is pregnant , I was like ok but didn't notice..... So get her a seat....

All I could say is sure no worries do you want this one I'll jump out....

Your man was adamant I had to get out and find her a seat....

Charles Ingles

Of course they should stand back and let the mother board the bus with her child first.
Unfortunately chivalry is dead and gone.
In my day women were treated with respect

Dravokivich

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Of course they should stand back and let the mother board the bus with her child first.
Unfortunately chivalry is dead and gone.
In my day women were treated with respect

That's not what chivalry is.

punisher5112

bobbyss wrote: »

Yes. You are right. And I am as guilty of this as anyone. I felt so sorry for this woman who was a foreigner and very quiet. I told her to go ahead of me and asked others to let her on first but to no avail. I was imagining myself in her position in the rain and effectively being the last one on. I wouldn't like it.

What has been a foreigner got to do with anything....

I don't get this argument and find it insulting.

Grown ups can look after themselves so let them do so.

People need to take some personal responsibility and yes of course it would be nice for the others to let her on but when your travelling mad things happen and she may not even want the bus or get on and then take an age looking for her card or money leaving all the other souls in the rain.

snickers

Op I take it you didn’t offer to help the woman and child get on or make a suggestion to the other passengers to let her on wether you like it or not most human beings are selfish and look out for themselves in an ideal world we would all look out for each other but ideal this world is not .

bobbyss

gmisk wrote:

How do you feel about someone with a pram taking up the wheelchair space, refusing to move and someone on a wheelchair not being allowed on? This happens a lot on my bus route.

Upset.

But this is mainly about pram etc boarding the bus as opposed to what is done inside.

Charles Ingles

Dravokivich wrote: »

That's not what chivalry is.

Ok in the strictest sense it doesn't, but it is often used as s term were a man acts courteous towards a woman.

Amirani

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Unfortunately chivalry is dead and gone.
In my day women were treated with respect

Like Magdalene Launderies and all the mother and baby homes? Like it not being illegal to rape your partner in a marriage? Etc.

Letting a woman skip ahead of you in the queue for a bus isn't some astounding act of chivalry or show of respect. If there's someone in a more challenged position trying to board; wheelchair user, pregnant woman, parent with young child, then it's a decent human thing to do to give them a spot on the bus if you can.

punisher5112

Woman want equal status so they have it so fend for themselves like everyone else I suppose.

I hold a door whether male or female as it is a good gesture or just good manners.

Charles Ingles

Amirani wrote: »

Like Magdalene Launderies and all the mother and baby homes? Like it not being illegal to rape your partner in a marriage? Etc.

Letting a woman skip ahead of you in the queue for a bus isn't some astounding act of chivalry or show of respect. If there's someone in a more challenged position trying to board; wheelchair user, pregnant woman, parent with young child, then it's a decent human thing to do to give them a spot on the bus if you can.

What has any of that got to do with men showing women respect

punisher5112

gmisk wrote: »

How do you feel about someone with a pram taking up the wheelchair space, refusing to move and someone on a wheelchair not being allowed on?
This happens a lot on my bus route.

Very true and even with the SG type that can take both buggy and wheelchair users the buggies actually trump what was actually set up to help those that were impaired.

2 buggies on.... Sorry could one of you fold as there is a wheelchair user wanting to board....

It's either silence, a no or I can't the buggy doesn't fold.

I will go out of my way to help anyone that needs it but the country has gone pc nuts.

Amirani

Charles Ingles wrote: »

What has any of that got to do with men showing women respect

Charles Ingles wrote: »

In my day women were treated with respect

No, they generally weren't.

Stephen15

Well I've noticed since Leap has become widespread that queuing for the bus has somewhat gone out the window as people are no longer boarding one by one to pay in cash but rather just scrambling to get at the Leap reader and the only who actually have to queue are the ones paying by cash or the ones paying by Leap to the driver. Because the process is now sped up people are more in a hurry.

OldMrBrennan83

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Of course they should stand back and let the mother board the bus with her child first.
Unfortunately chivalry is dead and gone.
In my day women were treated with respect

Equality. You're not allowed any more.

I'd give anyone a seat if they looked like they needed it more than me. Focusing only on women is unacceptable these days.

Spanish Eyes

In my experience if there is space in the buggy area, it doesn't matter if buggy and baby get on last, people will move to let them in.

We are not that bad really.

bobbyss

snickers wrote:

Op I take it you didn’t offer to help the woman and child get on or make a suggestion to the other passengers to let her on wether you like it or not most human beings are selfish and look out for themselves in an ideal world we would all look out for each other but ideal this world is not .

Yes I did. And I asked those around to let her on but unfortunately it didn't work out. I also told her to make herself more visible to the driver so he could do something. I dont think she understood me. And as I said, I told the driver his response was 'Nothing I can do. '

Re point made by other poster about her being a foreigner. I just think some foreigners are more demure and quiet and unwilling to assert themselves. This is in fact why I mentioned she was a foreigner.

Spanish Eyes

Driver looks in mirror, sees buggy area empty of buggy. So buggy owner + baby can board.

Often (at busy times) non buggy owners will take up the buggy space. That is just tough, buggy is paramount, and can get the space for him/her and babe.

Well that's what I think. Shoot me now.

Respect is earned, not assigned due to having a uterus

Everyone should respect everyone, let everyone on before them, then no one gets on.

Spanish Eyes

Betting that most here have not had to board a bus with a child/baby in a buggy. How very awful of those who do.

What! No SUV door to door, Oh my days.

Charles Ingles

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Respect is earned, not assigned due to having a uterus

Young mother pushing a buggy deserves respect, and to be let skip s bus queue.
I think society is in a terrible state

lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Respect is earned, not assigned due to having a uterus

Couldn't give a toss about the mother but I don't like to see infants and toddlers left on the side of the street.

Gatling

Charles Ingles wrote: »

Young mother pushing a buggy deserves respect, and to be let skip s bus queue.

But yet people waiting an up to an hour in the lashing of rain should be skipped because someone has a buggy ehhhh no

bobbyss

Gatling wrote:

But yet people waiting an up to an hour in the lashing of rain should be skipped because someone has a buggy ehhhh no

And the baby in the lashing rain?

Gatling

bobbyss wrote: »

And the baby in the lashing rain?

Usually well wrapped in the warn and dry buggies with added protection of a waterproof rain cover .

punisher5112

Rain coats, buggy covers, umbrellas..... Think people could use something like these.

I get wet standing for buses all the time and get no special treatment for boarding.....

iamwhoiam

Gatling wrote: »

But yet people waiting an up to an hour in the lashing of rain should be skipped because someone has a buggy ehhhh no

She doesn't just have a buggy she has a baby in the buggy

Gatling

iamwhoiam wrote: »

She doesn't just have a buggy she has a baby in the buggy

Actually I've seen dogs in a buggy taking up a space on a bus hence why I say buggy.

But as I mentioned above warm dry Buggy with blankets coat and a weather proof cover .

Pretty cosy actually

bobbyss

punisher5112 wrote:

Rain coats, buggy covers, umbrellas..... Think people could use something like these.

punisher5112 wrote:

I get wet standing for buses all the time and get no special treatment for boarding.....

Hopefully they are used in wet weather. Mother and child should always get priority. Not everyone facilitates that- including me.

hollymartins

When I was on maternity leave I got the bus from the city centre a couple of times but gave up because it was hassle every time. People sitting in the priority seats (that had the specific buggy sign) and wouldn't move. I've had a middle aged man huff & puff when I asked him to reposition his massive suitcase so I'd at least have room to stand (while he remained seated)

I'd queue as I'd normally do but the bus may pull in behind another bus or pull in a few metres away then you're left hoping there'll be space when you board.

I'm not sure what people expect women to do? Just not leave the house?

n!ghtmancometh

I think at peak time in especially in the evenings, when you have been waiting at a stop in the pissing rain for 40+ mins because the last 3 67's have passed the stop full, it's every man (and woman) for themselves. I've seen plenty of women/men with toddlers in buggies (not tiny newborns who you'd worry taking out of pram on a bus) flat out refuse to or play dumb about folding buggies when wheelchair users are attempting to board too.

hollymartins

Not peak time, this would've been 2pm yet downstairs priority seats were occupied each time. The OP didn't mention wheelchair users which, along with elderly or disabled people, I have absolutely no issue with. Also my baby was less than 3 months old so still pretty small and people just didn't have any problem jostling past me.

I actually started driving to a Luas stop and travelling in to town from there just avoid the stress but there are parents who don't have that option.

Stephen15

Just to clarify to people the priority seats are located on the second row of seats on the driver's side of the bus not the first row of flip down seats which are regular non priority seats on the SG class as no I know seem to think these are priority seats which they are not.

punisher5112

Stephen15 wrote: »

Just to clarify to people the priority seats are located on the second row of seats on the driver's side of the bus not the first row of flip down seats which are regular non priority seats on the SG class as no I know seem to think these are priority seats which they are not.

These are designed for the buggy user.

AlekSmart

hollymartins wrote: »

When I was on maternity leave I got the bus from the city centre a couple of times but gave up because it was hassle every time. People sitting in the priority seats (that had the specific buggy sign) and wouldn't move. I've had a middle aged man huff & puff when I asked him to reposition his massive suitcase so I'd at least have room to stand (while he remained seated)

I'd queue as I'd normally do but the bus may pull in behind another bus or pull in a few metres away then you're left hoping there'll be space when you board.

I'm not sure what people expect women to do? Just not leave the house?

Oh Hollymartins,I do hope you will email Bus Atha Cliath...The NTA...(Who are now in charge of vehicle specification) and perhaps the E.U....because you have hit the :eek: BULLSEYE ! :eek:

The two flip-down seats you reference are NOT priority at all,but (foolishly) intended to make the SG types seating capacity appear greater than it is,particularly as the 20 year old AV/AX design they replace,have substantially greater capacity.

The Flip-Downs merely act as a magnet for quarrelsome,anti-social types who,immediately claim ownership,even when the bus has plenty of alternative seats available.
Removing these seats (as TfL are doing in London),would IMMEDIATELY improve the situation for both Buggy and Wheelchair using customers,but the earnest young NTA graduate engineers will not countenance it (Most likely due to a certain unfamiliarity with actually travelling on the vehicles they craft).

Retrofitting a padded perimiter bum-perch,and some hanging straps would provide a far more cosmopolitan and realistic solution to peak-time travel demands,whilst still allowing the open-space to be used for it's intended purpose.

There is,however,the as yet unanswered,conundrum about the limits of what a Large Passenger Carrying vehicle can achieve,in terms of accomodating ambulatory non-dependent customers,whilst simultaneously allowing for the safe-carriage of an ever increasing range of wheeled contrivances,not all of which are carrying children.

Standee buses,common elsewhere in Europe,remain significantly less popular in the UK and Ireland,where people place significant value on getting a seat.

Jamie2k9

Last week I was on a packed bus. Both mother and father had a buggy on the bus. The mother was moaning about how people who live close to the city using this bus instead of waiting for others because this particularly service wasn't that frequent (33). I said it just like parents getting on the bus and not folding up the buggy and considering others. She had no excuse as her partner was standing next to her.

There wasn't a word out of her for the rest of the journey.

You see the same sense of entitlement of parents on trains and thinking they can just get somebody to move seats from where wheelchairs are meant to go.

Jamie2k9

lawred2 wrote: »

Couldn't give a toss about the mother but I don't like to see infants and toddlers left on the side of the street.

So if a bus is full and ready to leave and you see a mother and child running for it. Do you expect people to be left behind to accommodate them just because she has a child.

Stephen15

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oh Hollymartins,I do hope you will email Bus Atha Cliath...The NTA...(Who are now in charge of vehicle specification) and perhaps the E.U....because you have hit the :eek: BULLSEYE ! :eek:

The two flip-down seats you reference are NOT priority at all,but (foolishly) intended to make the SG types seating capacity appear greater than it is,particularly as the 20 year old AV/AX design they replace,have substantially greater capacity.

The Flip-Downs merely act as a magnet for quarrelsome,anti-social types who,immediately claim ownership,even when the bus has plenty of alternative seats available.
Removing these seats (as TfL are doing in London),would IMMEDIATELY improve the situation for both Buggy and Wheelchair using customers,but the earnest young NTA graduate engineers will not countenance it (Most likely due to a certain unfamiliarity with actually travelling on the vehicles they craft).

Retrofitting a padded perimiter bum-perch,and some hanging straps would provide a far more cosmopolitan and realistic solution to peak-time travel demands,whilst still allowing the open-space to be used for it's intended purpose.

There is,however,the as yet unanswered,conundrum about the limits of what a Large Passenger Carrying vehicle can achieve,in terms of accomodating ambulatory non-dependent customers,whilst simultaneously allowing for the safe-carriage of an ever increasing range of wheeled contrivances,not all of which are carrying children.

Standee buses,common elsewhere in Europe,remain significantly less popular in the UK and Ireland,where people place significant value on getting a seat.

As I'm sure you are aware the SG have a greater total seating and standing capacity than any other twin axle bus in city service in Dublin with a capacity for 95 passengers vs 91 on an AV/AX. Perhaps by removing the two flip down seats introduce the solutions you mentioned they could further increase the standing capacity on these buses.

The introduction a new class of hybrid buses should present an oppurtunity to the NTA to implement the solutions nessecary to increase standing capacity such as the ones you outlined or they could just continue with a similar design to the SG class as it is now.

AlekSmart

Stephen15 wrote: »

As I'm sure you are aware the SG have a greater total seating and standing capacity than any other twin axle bus in city service in Dublin with a capacity for 95 passengers vs 91 on an AV/AX. Perhaps by removing the two flip down seats introduce the solutions you mentioned they could further increase the standing capacity on these buses.

The introduction a new class of hybrid buses should present an oppurtunity to the NTA to implement the solutions nessecary to increase standing capacity such as the ones you outlined or they could just continue with a similar design to the SG class as it is now.

Indeed,and as you may be probably equally aware,the posted total capacity of the vehicles is derived from the manufacturers plated Gross Vehicle Weight figure ie: the total all-up weight,which for a 2 axle bus cannot exceed 19.5 tonnes.

Given that the Gemini 3 SG product is 650 Kg lighter than the GT for example,it is therefore allowed to carry 10 more "additional passengers" (at a notional weight of 65Kg's each) The posted "Standing Capacity" figure bears NO relationship to the actual capacity when referring to additional passengers.

The seating capacity however,refers to actual seats,with no doubt as to the number occupying each seat.

Make no mistake,an AV/AX will easily outcarry an SG,irrespective of what interpretation is placed upon the Capacity Plate.