BA flight lands in Edinburgh instead of Dusseldorf by mistake

vicwatson

How the? What a gaff

BA3271


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47691478

IQO

https://twitter.com/PJamesHamilton/status/1110179530491215873

https://twitter.com/denshigishi/status/1110109085406584833

PCros

Could be that the roster said one thing and the pilots thought another and filed a flight plan to Edinburgh?

Question is though - the cabin crew must have thought they were going to Dusseldorf? They would have checked boarding passes and gave the pre-flight welcome.

Is their a growing disconnect between pilots and cabin crew now? Only reason I ask is that I overheard cabin crew on two flights recently talking about how some pilots are nice but that most would just grunt down the phone if they were asked if they wanted a tea or coffee etc.

Locker10a

PCros wrote: »

Could be that the roster said one thing and the pilots thought another and filed a flight plan to Edinburgh?

Question is though - the cabin crew must have thought they were going to Dusseldorf? They would have checked boarding passes and gave the pre-flight welcome.

Is their a growing disconnect between pilots and cabin crew now? Only reason I ask is that I overheard cabin crew on two flights recently talking about how some pilots are nice but that most would just grunt down the phone if they were asked if they wanted a tea or coffee etc.

BA no longer instruct cabin crew to check boarding cards while entering the aircraft.
Irish airlines still do this as it’s a regulation from the IAA. In light of this monumental cock up, that policy may be reviewed by BA

IngazZagni

Doesn't BA (and Aer Lingus) still have a very old fashioned way of doing things were the pilots only meet the cabin crew once they are on board the aircraft? So there may be no communication to confirm they are both intending to go to the same destination. It doesnt promote a healthy teamwork environment. Also surely the pilot at some stage made a PA saying welcome on board this flight to Edinburgh or something? Seems extraordinary. What an embarrassing thing to happen.

Edit: apparently it was operated by German company WDL aviation. My same question still applies however.

Nijmegen

More details here in the story now. Operated by WDL, the docket said Edinburgh so that's where they went. The captain asked for a show of hands as to who wanted to go to Dusseldorf apparently, and figured it out. Sounds like a dispatch error.

Locker10a

Nijmegen wrote: »

More details here in the story now. Operated by WDL, the docket said Edinburgh so that's where they went. The captain asked for a show of hands as to who wanted to go to Dusseldorf apparently, and figured it out. Sounds like a dispatch error.

Had the boarding cards been checked during boarding in LCY this wouldn’t have happened.

Tenger

Wow, just WOW.

Obviously the German company just followed the flight plan provided by BA Flight Planning Ops, not realized the normal route?
Was an Edinburgh bound aircraft sent the Düsseldorf flight plan in error as well?

If this was a normal franchise operation would the crew not be familiar with the flights numbers and routings?

Noxegon

Tenger wrote: »

Wow, just WOW.

No, British Airways.

billy few mates

Tenger wrote: »

Wow, just WOW.

Obviously the German company just followed the flight plan provided by BA Flight Planning Ops, not realized the normal route?
Was an Edinburgh bound aircraft sent the Düsseldorf flight plan in error as well?

If this was a normal franchise operation would the crew not be familiar with the flights numbers and routings?

I doubt that, the crews are normally expected to confirm the data they enter into the FMS not just follow it blindly. With modern technology like this they would also have to enter STARS for the arrivals and engage with ATC along the route and at the destination.
There is no way they could have accidentally turned up at Edinburgh instead of Dusseldorf.

LXFlyer

roadmaster wrote: »

Shortly after take off would ATC not have noticed there was a jet going somewhere it shouldn’t be?

No as they followed their flight plan.

Simon Calder suggests that simply they filed the previous day’s plan by mistake.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ba-british-airways-passengers-london-city-wrong-airport-edinburgh-dusseldorf-a8839136.html

flazio

Apparently ATC don't have that schedule. The pilot would request permission to fly towards a waypoint and off it goes.

billy few mates

flazio wrote: »

Apparently ATC don't have that schedule. The pilot would request permission to fly towards a waypoint and off it goes.

That's not how it works...

Locker10a

billy few mates wrote: »

That's not how it works...

Agreed, controllers would know the destination

crushproof

LXFlyer wrote: »

No as they followed their flight plan.

Simon Calder suggests that simply they filed the previous day’s plan by mistake.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/ba-british-airways-passengers-london-city-wrong-airport-edinburgh-dusseldorf-a8839136.html

Reliable Simon on the ball. OT but I thoroughly enjoy his articles in the Independent.

sjb25

Some advice for the pilot from a wise man

Victor

Locker10a wrote: »

BA no longer instruct cabin crew to check boarding cards while entering the aircraft.

How do they know if the right people are on board and that all luggage is accompanied?

Locker10a

Victor wrote: »

How do they know if hte right people are on board and that all luggage is accompanied?

It’s left up to ground/gate staff!! I’m really surprised by this, it’s not permitted by the IAA and I’m surprised given the high security threat level in the U.K. the U.K. caa allows it

road_high

Usually they welcome you to the flight to xxxxx and flight time in xxxxx and weather in xxxxxx.
Surely if they said Edinburgh then a lot of people would have noticed? Was there no PA announcement on board?

ted1

Locker10a wrote: »

BA no longer instruct cabin crew to check boarding cards while entering the aircraft.
Irish airlines still do this as it’s a regulation from the IAA. In light of this monumental cock up, that policy may be reviewed by BA

They only check the date on the boarding cards

GM228

I'm just hoping for the next AN-225 for Shannon to "mistakenly" land in Dublin

Tenger

billy few mates wrote: »

I doubt that, the crews are normally expected to confirm the data they enter into the FMS not just follow it blindly. With modern technology like this they would also have to enter STARS for the arrivals and engage with ATC along the route and at the destination.
There is no way they could have accidentally turned up at Edinburgh instead of Dusseldorf.

Sorry, wasn’t clear. I was querying if the crew when just following the flight plan without being familiar with the route. Almost like a last minute duty change.

Obviously being rostered LCY-DUS and seeing a LCY-EDI flight plan would be questioned.

Irish Steve

When I first saw this, I wondered if the issue was that the ramp staff pointed the passengers at the wrong aircraft, but given that it was a hire in with a German crew, I am now wondering if the despatch office gave them the wrong flight documents, so they were given the EDI flight plan instead of the DUS flight plan. Either way, that's a serious egg on face moment that won't be forgotten any time soon. There are so many inconsistencies with this story, it beggars belief that it could happen and nobody noticed, even without the checking of boarding cards. In the same vein,I find it strange on a Monday that the regulars (and there will be regulars) didn't cop the discrepancies during the flight, unless they were in cloud all the way, the sun would have been in the wrong place, they'd have not flown over water shortly after departure, etc.etc. Very strange all round, but it clearly did happen.

Locker10a

ted1 wrote: »

They only check the date on the boarding cards

Who only checks the date? The gate staff scan the boarding cards and the computer will accept it or not.
Then at the entrance to the aircraft the cabin crew will check flight number, destination and date, if it’s a twin aisle they’ll check the seat number too so you know which aisle to head down. However BA removed this procedure for their crew and airlines operating their flights. Hence on this flight the crew, going to Edinburgh didn’t notice that all the pax had Dusseldorf boarding cards

jasper100

road_high wrote: »

Usually they welcome you to the flight to xxxxx and flight time in xxxxx and weather in xxxxxx.
Surely if they said Edinburgh then a lot of people would have noticed? Was there no PA announcement on board?

I assume the cabin crew went and announced Dusseldorf as normal but the boys and girls up front possibly wouldn't have heard this.

Somebody in Specsavers marketing department looked at the news and realised that this absolutely beautiful gift had landed right in their lap. :pac:

https://twitter.com/Specsavers/status/1110203732187332608

Victor

Actually, all the cabin crew had to do was check one / some boarding cards and the problem would have been avoided. Make it a rule that flight crew have to check two boarding cards with the cabin crew and that cabin crew have to check 10%.

Locker10a

jasper100 wrote: »

I assume the cabin crew went and announced Dusseldorf as normal but the boys and girls up front possibly wouldn't have heard this.

No I’d say the cabin crew announced Edinburgh, the cabin crew and flight crew wouldn’t have been operating two separate flights, it’s a legal requirement that cabin crew and flight crew conduct a pre flight briefing together.
I’d say the crew did mention Edinburgh but the passengers just weren’t listening or doubted they heard correctly

Hurrache

Locker10a wrote: »

It’s left up to ground/gate staff!! I’m really surprised by this, it’s not permitted by the IAA and I’m surprised given the high security threat level in the U.K. the U.K. caa allows it

What do the electronic gates check then when you scan your boarding pass at the boarding gate prior to boarding?

Locker10a

Hurrache wrote: »

What do the electronic gates check then when you scan your boarding pass at the boarding gate prior to boarding?

I’ve never worked as gate staff but I can only assume it corresponds to the planned/booked flight manifest for that particular flight !!?

Tenger

Hurrache wrote: »

What do the electronic gates check then when you scan your boarding pass at the boarding gate prior to boarding?

Same as what the actual staff do when checking manually. That the boarding card name matches the passport name and that the person presenting the boarding card matches the passport photo.

Last couple of times flying out of Heathrow they have gone all hi tech. Photo is taken as you pass through security and at the boarding gate the photo is checked against the person presenting at the gate. Not sure if LCY has similar system.



To me it sounds like the crew were told which aircraft and flight number they were operating and then were handed a flight plan which was incorrect.

Roger_007

I'm so glad this was a BA flight and not Aer Lingus or Ryanair. The Brits would have had a field day. As it is it is just another embarrassment to go with the Brexit shambles.

ted1

Locker10a wrote: »

Who only checks the date? The gate staff scan the boarding cards and the computer will accept it or not.
Then at the entrance to the aircraft the cabin crew will check flight number, destination and date, if it’s a twin aisle they’ll check the seat number too so you know which aisle to head down. However BA removed this procedure for their crew and airlines operating their flights. Hence on this flight the crew, going to Edinburgh didn’t notice that all the pax had Dusseldorf boarding cards

On the Aer Lingus flight I got the other day. The cabin crew at the door of the plane told me “I’m only checking the date”

Van.Bosch

Locker10a wrote: »

No I’d say the cabin crew announced Edinburgh, the cabin crew and flight crew wouldn’t have been operating two separate flights, it’s a legal requirement that cabin crew and flight crew conduct a pre flight briefing together.
I’d say the crew did mention Edinburgh but the passengers just weren’t listening or doubted they heard correctly

The cabin crew announced Dusseldorf, issue was just with pilots.

smurfjed

Papers arrive, "oh look they have changed us to Edinburgh, do you have the approach plates for Edinburgh, what's it like, I wish that they stopped messing us around like this with last minute changes, but we need this contract so lets not cause confusion"... and off they go.

If they had the flight plan, ATC would have the same filed flight plan with Edinburgh as the destination. Remembering that this was an RJ so no ACARS/ SATCOM etc.

FrancieBrady

ted1 wrote: »

On the Aer Lingus flight I got the other day. The cabin crew at the door of the plane told me “I’m only checking the date”

There is a post from me here from about 3 years ago where I was asking about an incident I was involved in where a passenger got on a flight and into the air with a ticket with the wrong date on it.
So it does happen that they don't check dates.

This seems like a cock-up between pilots and cabin staff. Somebody, or a number of people, not being a professional and going through the motions.

Del2005

ted1 wrote: »

They only check the date on the boarding cards

Even though they only have to check the date shouldn't they have noticed that all the boarding cards had a different destination to where they were going? Or is the date check not even done on boarding.

Del2005

Tenger wrote: »

Last couple of times flying out of Heathrow they have gone all hi tech. Photo is taken as you pass through security and at the boarding gate the photo is checked against the person presenting at the gate. Not sure if LCY has similar system.

They had that years ago, for access to the CTA section they verify your picture.

GBX

Why would the pilot ask passengers for a show of hands on who wanted to go to Dusseldorf? Is this one of those "well the whole plane needs to get to Dusseldorf, so I'll fly there now instead - i'll deal with the bosses later on that one?"

L1011

There were FIVE passengers at that. Shouldn't have taken too long to check with all of them!

Nijmegen

Five passengers?! Well that might explain why nobody noticed - five frequent flyers out of LCY, probably fly all the time, headphones in, FT open on their laps not looking out the window.

Tenger

L1011 wrote: »

There were FIVE passengers at that. Shouldn't have taken too long to check with all of them!

That’s partially explains the incident and the missed signs early on.

If the cabin crew announced Düsseldorf but the flight crew had a flight plan for Edinburgh, then serious questions about CRM are needed.


As for checking boarding cards, IAA requires date and flight number/destination to be checked. So while a person might say “just checking the date” to you they are checking 2 things. Imagine having to explain that the dozens of ppl each day who shout “I know my seat number” to you?
That doesn’t however preclude a staff member being lazy and not following procedure correctly.

Locker10a

ted1 wrote: »

On the Aer Lingus flight I got the other day. The cabin crew at the door of the plane told me “I’m only checking the date”

They check more than the date, when people bark their seat number at you, you give them an explanation, short of saying “I don’t give a flying f*^k where you’re sitting”. “im checking the date/flight no/destination” is a means of explaining the check. Honestly when I was crew I truly didn’t give a sh1te where you were sitting, I was only interested in my complience checks.

Locker10a

GBX wrote: »

Why would the pilot ask passengers for a show of hands on who wanted to go to Dusseldorf? Is this one of those "well the whole plane needs to get to Dusseldorf, so I'll fly there now instead - i'll deal with the bosses later on that one?"

This was done after they landed in Edinburgh and the crew were confused as to why their passengers didn’t want to get off in Edinburgh!

Locker10a

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is a post from me here from about 3 years ago where I was asking about an incident I was involved in where a passenger got on a flight and into the air with a ticket with the wrong date on it.
So it does happen that they don't check dates.

This seems like a cock-up between pilots and cabin staff. Somebody, or a number of people, not being a professional and going through the motions.

I don’t see it as an issue with the pilots or crew, they did exactly as they were told. It was either BA operations or LCY ground staff that literally boarded pax onto a flight for Dusseldorf without cross checking that that flight paperwork was filed for Edinburgh

loyatemu

Locker10a wrote: »

This was done after they landed in Edinburgh and the crew were confused as to why their passengers didn’t want to get off in Edinburgh!

"Are you sure you don't want to get off here? There's a lovely castle and you can get deep-fried pizza in the chippy. Have any of you seen Trainspotting?"

arubex

Locker10a wrote: »

Honestly when I was crew I truly didn't give a sh1te where you were sitting, I was only interested in my complience checks.

But yet you still 'directed' the passengers to their seats. "Right-hand aisle and all the way to the back". Is it any wonder they thought you were just a glorified usher?

Perhaps if FAs actually treated their passengers with some respect and dignity then we'd have reciprocal respect. Tell us what you're doing and we'll be more compliant. Don't just stand at the door barking and glowering.

Stovepipe

.....because, fundamentally, it doesnt matter where you sit, unless you are very big or fat in a small aircraft or you are not able bodied and want to sit in the emergency exit row. Making you pay for particular seats is an airline marketing scam and no more. Same with priority boarding. Just seperating you from your money, another way.

Stovepipe

...it was a 146. probably didnt want to leave the ground in the first place.

Tenger

arubex wrote: »

But yet you still 'directed' the passengers to their seats. "Right-hand aisle and all the way to the back". Is it any wonder they thought you were just a glorified usher?

Perhaps if FAs actually treated their passengers with some respect and dignity then we'd have reciprocal respect. Tell us what you're doing and we'll be more compliant. Don't just stand at the door barking and glowering.

Lovely generalisation there. Don’t be a dick to people doing a job is another one. Let’s focus on the topic rather than deep seated resentments or previous bad experiences.
In my time in an airline I met quite a number of crew who “barked and glowered” but the vast majority did their job as expected. I know the reputation that Ryanair crew have but in my experience they are efficient at their role.

Locker10a

arubex wrote: »

But yet you still 'directed' the passengers to their seats. "Right-hand aisle and all the way to the back". Is it any wonder they thought you were just a glorified usher?

Perhaps if FAs actually treated their passengers with some respect and dignity then we'd have reciprocal respect. Tell us what you're doing and we'll be more compliant. Don't just stand at the door barking and glowering.

Hi,
Yeah naturally I directed passengers to their seats! And I did so to improve and speed up the boarding process for ALL passengers.
I don’t actually care where you’re sitting, I’m checking what I’m required to check, but if it’s a dual aisle aircraft, to prevent chaos and bottlenecks I would direct, again, to speed things up for everyone else.
You automatically assume from having never met me or having never flown with me that I don’t treat people with respect, which I think tells us more about you than anything else. For the record I don’t disrespect passengers at all, in fact in a previous company I was invited to a gala dinner with the CEO along with selected other staff in recognition for going above and beyond and recieving consistant positive feedback from passengers and colleagues, that’s not to say I don’t have frustrations and occasional rants, as I clearly do but I always act in a totally professional manner. My boards.ie account is a personal one and nothing more.
I’m all for telling passengers the reason for this and that, yes they’ll probably be more compliant, but giving an explanation to each and every passenger as they board would just be ridiculous. Gate staff often make an announcement during boarding to ask you have your boarding cards ready for inspection at the aircraft door, maybe I’m old fashioned here but I don’t see why the general public shouldn’t just comply with a simple request without sighing and huffing and needing an intricate explanation for everything. Having said that, by all means politely ask and I’m happy to engage in any explanation.