This is how it's (supposed to be) done

peasant

Mutual respect and humanity instead of hatred and prejudice



https://twitter.com/HHShkMohd/status/1109124817888915461/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1109124817888915461&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fglobalnews.ca%2Fnews%2F5088075%2Fburj-khalifa-jacinda-ardern%2F

Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the prime minister of the United Arab Emirates and ruler of Dubai, tweeted a photo of the Burj Khalifa on Friday.

“Thank you PM Jacinda Ardern and New Zealand for your sincere empathy and support that has won the respect of 1.5 billion Muslims after the terrorist attack that shook the Muslim community around the world,” he tweeted.

Franz Von Peppercorn

A decent sheikh.

MeMen2_MoRi_

peasant wrote: »

Mutual respect and humanity instead of hatred and prejudice



https://twitter.com/HHShkMohd/status/1109124817888915461/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1109124817888915461&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fglobalnews.ca%2Fnews%2F5088075%2Fburj-khalifa-jacinda-ardern%2F

Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid Al Maktoum, the prime minister of the United Arab Emirates and ruler of Dubai, tweeted a photo of the Burj Khalifa on Friday.

“Thank you PM Jacinda Ardern and New Zealand for your sincere empathy and support that has won the respect of 1.5 billion Muslims after the terrorist attack that shook the Muslim community around the world,” he tweeted.

"Mutual respect"? Haven't seen this with regards an Islamic terrorist attack?

*Devil's advocate*

Your Face

Do they still have the death penalty?

markodaly

Yes, the UAE, a bastion of peace, respect and mutual harmony.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/08/29/the-united-arab-emirates-and-saudi-arabia-are-aiding-terrorists-in-yemen/?utm_term=.b29838f34cc1

At the same time we are reading about the horrific bombing that killed 44 children, new Associated Press reporting from Yemen has laid bare the fact that the UAE and Saudi Arabia have been busy cutting “secret deals with al-Qaida fighters, paying some to leave key cities and towns and letting others retreat with weapons, equipment and wads of looted cash … hundreds more were recruited to join the coalition itself.”

Franz Von Peppercorn

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, the UAE, a bastion of peace, respect and mutual harmony.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/08/29/the-united-arab-emirates-and-saudi-arabia-are-aiding-terrorists-in-yemen/?utm_term=.b29838f34cc1

Since the WP is firewalled it’s hard to see if it also talks about US support in the Yemen war.

El_Bee

markodaly wrote: »

Yes, the UAE, a bastion of peace, respect and mutual harmony.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/08/29/the-united-arab-emirates-and-saudi-arabia-are-aiding-terrorists-in-yemen/?utm_term=.b29838f34cc1

Dude they projected an image onto one of their buildings one hand washes the other.

Wibbs

On the surface... Mostly I see it as clumsy marketing by a shabby little state(and grandstanding for feels in the first place). Maybe that's the cynic in me, but it takes one to know one.

peasant

Wibbs wrote: »

On the surface... Mostly I see it as clumsy marketing by a shabby little state(and grandstanding for feels in the first place). Maybe that's the cynic in me, but it takes one to know one.

or...

...one could see it as a first step into the right direction to stop the spiraling hatred.

Yeees, of course, it's a ll a bit touchy-feely, superficial and social-media-y...but hey, so is everything these days.

Sonics2k

Your Face wrote: »

Do they still have the death penalty?

I mean, so does the US?

I don't really see what point you're trying to make though.

ToddyDoody

If only Christianity and Islam weren't both the one true faiths.

MintyMagnum

ToddyDoody wrote: »

If only Christianity and Islam weren't both the one true faiths.

& Jews God's Chosen People

ToddyDoody

MintyMagnum wrote: »

& Jews the Chosen People

But I don't think Judaism looks for converts, unlike Islam and Christianity. Thereby they're not on the same collision course.

c.p.w.g.w

MintyMagnum wrote: »

& Jews God's Chosen People

If they really are god's chosen people how do they explain 1939-1945

Mike Oxlong

That NZ premier is getting on my wick a little...her need to make herself the centre of attention after this tragedy is quite obsessive....will she perhaps ask the ruler of a nation with indentured slavery to remove her image from the building ...or is propaganda the winner here for both

BeerWolf

"Shook the world" ... as awful as the event was, the frequent mass murders of Christians in the ME seems to be ignored? Guess the difference is this happened to 'minorities' in a Western country to warrant mass media coverage. :rolleyes:

corner of hells

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

That NZ premier is getting on my wick a little...her need to make herself the centre of attention after this tragedy is quite obsessive....will she perhaps ask the ruler of a nation with indentured slavery to remove her image from the building ...or is propaganda the winner here for both

She probably should've have said nothing or maybe just mention " thoughts and prayers".

Yurt2

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

That NZ premier is getting on my wick a little...her need to make herself the centre of attention after this tragedy is quite obsessive....will she perhaps ask the ruler of a nation with indentured slavery to remove her image from the building ...or is propaganda the winner here for both

I think she's shown excellent, and authentic, national leadership. A PM should be much more than a CEO / administrator in chief type figure we've become accustomed to - they should be emotionally and intellectually equipped to show moral courage and leadership during times of national crisis. Unlike most 'leadership assembly line' politicians, she has an air of authenticity about her.

Wibbs

BeerWolf wrote: »

"Shook the world" ... as awful as the event was, the frequent mass murders of Christians in the ME seems to be ignored? Guess the difference is this happened to 'minorities' in a Western country to warrant mass media coverage. :rolleyes:

I would say it's much more than that and a littler nastier too under the surface. Mass murders of any faith or sort are generally ignored by western media because in the vast majority of cases it's brown people being murdered by other brown people(or by pale people by proxy or technology). If pale people were getting murdered in similar numbers the poo would hit the fan. When brown people are murdered by pale people in majority pale countries the poo hits the fan because it's local and suburban and makes us pale people look bad. Add in either "our culture is best culture" or the opposing "Pale people are to blame for all badness", both generally opinions majority held by pale people and you get the craw thumping. Mix all that in a bowl of always on news and social media and you get the craw thumbing and temporary and simplistic responses to long standing and complex problems. Thoughts and prayers, hearts and minds. Blah. Until the next event that can be mewled over in a picture.

Wibbs

I love the word and current currency of the word "authentic" in a world that is usually anything but. All too often it has the sniff of the temporary gesture, the photogenic feels, never mind the quality, feel the width.

Uncharted

As any 'world leader' will attest, never let a good crisis go to waste.

Wibbs

peasant wrote: »

or...

...one could see it as a first step into the right direction to stop the spiraling hatred.

Yeees, of course, it's a ll a bit touchy-feely, superficial and social-media-y...but hey, so is everything these days.

Oh I see your point P, but this idea that "love conquers all" is a pretty recent notion. The plain fact is that every single successful and safe culture in history got that way and remained that way because of the use of and continuing threat of force, both economically and militarily. Try finding one that didn't.

Yurt2

Wibbs wrote: »

I love the word and current currency of the word "authentic" in a world that is usually anything but. All too often it has the sniff of the temporary gesture, the photogenic feels, never mind the quality, feel the width.

Hate to disagree, but what strikes me about Ardern is that she's from a background that isn't tainted by BS. Her dad was a frontline copper and her mother worked in a cafeteria. She's from a provincial NZ city and went to an unfashionable university away from the great and good in Auckland and Wellington. She's very much from the periphery and worked her way to the centre of public life in NZ. That's actually pretty rare in modern professionalised politics.


Most PMs and Presidents if you dig into their background had the typical private school education / elite university pipeline or a major leg up handed to them by their family.


Ardern strikes me as a lot more grounded than the groomed Macron, Trudeau or Varadkars of this world.

peasant

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh I see your point P, but this idea that "love conquers all" is a pretty recent notion. The plain fact is that every single successful and safe culture in history got that way and remained that way because of the use of and continuing threat of force, both economically and militarily. Try finding one that didn't.

I don't see a "love conquers all" message in there anywhere.

The NZ prime minister showed some real compassion and action (refusing to say the name of the perpetrator and immediately imposing a weapons ban)...the sheikh is saying "thank you"


That's all it is...the simple, decent thing to do..."Thank you"

So little and yet so much in today's world. Winding down the hysteria with some common civility and decency.

"Thank you for doing the decent thing"


We should try it more often, it even works on a purely personal level.:D

DrumSteve

Manifest wrote: »

Tbh I find it a bit cringey her wearing the hijabi headscarf thing.

Would be like Trump wearing a sombrero after a bunch of Mexicans got shot.

Trump would dress up as one of the Three Amigos if it came to it.

Uncharted

antigravity2 wrote: »

This may seem a little off topic................

Ya reckon....

Whatever the motivation behind the gesture, at least it acknowledges the NZ PM.

She came across as a very dignified and measured person, very impressive.

Wibbs

Candie wrote: »

Whatever the motivation behind the gesture, at least it acknowledges the NZ PM.

It's just me C, but I find it bloody difficult to ignore one in favour of the other. Note the first part that left out of the OP: New Zealand today fell silent in honour of the mosque attacks' martyrs. "Martyrs" is quite the loaded word within the culture.

Never mind that said "prince" lords over a shabby little Christmas bauble in the desert built and continuing to be built on slave labour, where women and anybody that isn't a native born Emirate man are second class citizens, where "equality" awards are only handed out to men, where dissenting voices are "disappeared" or imprisoned, including yer man's daughters, where even a journalist Facebook posts have put them in gaol and they're part of the Saudi coalition screwing up Yemen with serious human rights violations, they even had the hard bloody neck to hold a "World tolerance summit" in the place last year. That's up there with 1930's Germany holding a Jewish World summit.

Getting praise from a snake is no praise and there's usually an angle.

Your Face

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean, so does the US?

I don't really see what point you're trying to make though.

The thread not about the USA.



The USA is a fascinating country but some people are obsessed.


This thread is about UAE, maybe the initials confused you.

peasant

Your Face wrote: »

This thread is about UAE, maybe the initials confused you.

actually this thread is about saying "Thank you"

Your Face

peasant wrote: »

actually this thread is about saying "Thank you"

That's very naive.

peasant

Your Face wrote: »

That's very naive.

Maybe sometimes, some things can just be taken at face value instead of over-analysed, maybe they even should.

Zorya

Nervana Mahmoud has some interesting things to say on what she describes as the ''essentialisation of the hijab'' that Arden is hedging towards, which she thinks falls into the hands of the Islamists.
Islamists, by the way, is very different from Islamic. Islamist means an advocate or supporter of Islamic militancy or fundamentalism.

A bit on who is Nervana Mahmoud. She was one of the BBCs top 100 women of the year in the UK in 2013.




I am sorry #NewZealand, but this solidarity has skewed too much towards misogyny.
You are essentializing #Hijab.
Please refrain from playing into the hand of Islamist groups.
@jacindaardern
Does @jacindaardern know that that enforced hijab, whether legally or socially, is one of the painful issues women suffer from in the Middle East?
#Hijab is not a symbol of faith like the Jewish Kippah. The nearest equivalent is the Kosher wig.
Would @jacindaardern wear a wig if the victims of #ChristchurchTerrorAttack were Jewish???
Just to be clear. I praised, on several occasions, the courage and grace of #NewZealand PM @jacindaardern and respect and welcome her outreach to the Muslim community. It was awesome to recite the Quran, as Muslims do during mourning.
But over-compensation is not needed now.
It is sad that some see scarf/ wearing by non-Muslim women as “a nice gesture” to Muslims.
Actually, it infantilises Islam and demean its core values. It is only a gesture to men with ego.
I rather #NewZealand seize the moment to adopt liberal Islam; not conservative one.

Reposting this from #Iran.
The number of women who punished for trying to remove their #hijab should haunt those who argue it is “a nice gesture”
And no, I am not against women who choose to wear it; I am against using hijab as a symbol of #Islam. it is NOT.


We, Muslims, are trapped between those who demonise our faith, those who belittle it. More painful, is too see supposedly liberal non-hijabi Muslims happily accept hollow ( well meant) gestures, and accept to look as second -class non compliant Muslims.
Many asked if my *problem* with #Hijab is based on personal experience.
The answer is NO. My family never enforced hijab on me. I do not have to suffer to relate to the suffering of others. I also respect the choice of other “adult” female Muslims who opt to wear it.
However I also met many #Hijabi women, particularly Saudis and Emiratis who have more open minded approach to the issue of women’s dress code in Islam. I also met non-hijabi who are happy to be labelled as non-compliant Muslims, which is tragic tbh
We have to admit that there is a deep seated problem common among various Muslim communities about dress code for women.
But that does not justify Western response to the issue of hijab. The last thing we need is non-Muslim cover-up to please our men— even as a gesture
I challenge those who attacked my views on the above thread to expect Muslims to wear the cross after ISIS massacres against Middle Eastern Christians, or expect hymns to be recited in an Arab parliament after terror attacks against minorities.

https://twitter.com/Nervana_1/status/1109530434386436096


Nervana Mahmoud in this copy and paste from her twitter thread expressed similar views to some I shared on another thread. I sympathise strongly with her position on this matter.

One eyed Jack

Zorya wrote: »

Nervana Mahmoud has some interesting things to say on what she describes as the ''essentialisation of the hijab'' that Arden is hedging towards, which she thinks falls into the hands of the Islamists.
Islamists, by the way, is very different from Islamic. Islamist means an advocate or supporter of Islamic militancy or fundamentalism.

A bit on who is Nervana Mahmoud. She was one of the BBCs top 100 women of the year in the UK in 2013.

I am sorry #NewZealand, but this solidarity has skewed too much towards misogyny.
You are essentializing #Hijab.
Please refrain from playing into the hand of Islamist groups.

She certainly has a point. I don’t see it gaining much traction though as I can also see the good intent at least, in the tokenism of reducing the significance of the hijab to that of the Western symbol of feminism - the fanny hat.

Zorya

One eyed Jack wrote: »

She certainly has a point. I don’t see it gaining much traction though as I can also see the good intent at least, in the tokenism of reducing the significance of the hijab to that of the Western symbol of feminism - the fanny hat.

Yeesh, don't get me started on that infantile moronic pussy hat business...

Anyways I have been following the debate on Hijab for several years, and I think overall it should not be embraced as a symbol of ''unity''.

peasant

Zorya wrote: »

Anyways I have been following the debate on Hijab for several years, and I think overall it should not be embraced as a symbol of ''unity''.

I would agree with you (or Nervana Mahmoud) if Jacinda Ardern had worn that headscarf at some political event or something even remotely related to feminism or women's rights...but she didn't.

She was paying her respects, offering empathy and what little comfort she could give at a funeral or memorial (not sure where or when the pic was taken).
When paying your respects you do not want to (nor should you) start a debate about unrelated issues. You stick to the norm and be respectful. You and your opinion or stance on matters are not what this is about.

After all, you don't go to your neighbours' funeral in shorts and a tanktop either...even if that's all you're wearing for the rest of the year.

Which brings me back to the thread title...this is how it's (supposed to be) done.
I think in this day and age of analysing, signaling and facebooking of everything it might do us no harm to re-focus on simple human traits like empathy, decency and respect. And just show/accept them for what they are...without overloading them with symbolism and interpretation.

You behaved decently, thank you for that.

What's wrong with that?

Zorya

peasant wrote: »

I would agree with you (or Nervana Mahmoud) if Jacinda Ardern had worn that headscarf at some political event or something even remotely related to feminism or women's rights...but she didn't.

She was paying her respects, offering empathy and what little comfort she could give at a funeral or memorial (not sure where or when the pic was taken).
When paying your respects you do not want to (nor should you) start a debate about unrelated issues. You stick to the norm and be respectful. You and your opinion or stance on matters are not what this is about.

After all, you don't go to your neighbours' funeral in shorts and a tanktop either...even if that's all you're wearing for the rest of the year.

Which brings me back to the thread title...this is how it's (supposed to be) done.
I think in this day and age of analysing, signaling and facebooking of everything it might do us no harm to re-focus on simple human traits like empathy, decency and respect. And just show/accept them for what they are...without overloading them with symbolism and interpretation.

You behaved decently, thank you for that.

What's wrong with that?

I accept your points.

Carry

There is a lot of good old Irish begrudgery in the posts here ("attention seeker" :rolleyes: for doing a decent thing, that is acknowledged the world over?) and even a lot more whataboutery.

If nobody can appreciate a decent and much needed gesture of a politician without pointing the finger to other politicians who are incapabale to look beyond their own noses then I only can despair about humanity.

With her reaction Ardern calmed already stormy waters. Fear mongering is de rigeur in our current political climate and she didn't stir the shít but reacted in a very human and humane way, not only that, she took on the gun lobby by legislation to ban all automatic firearms (or such like, I'm not familiar with guns).

That the not so savoury sheikh of the UAE appreciated her compassion and solidarity and honoured it is imo a step in the right direction.

One step at a time. What else did you, the "critics" and doubters, expect? That suddenly the sheikh declared, oh by the way, since we are at it, we change our attitude towards women?
Hardly. But the hatred between religiously divided (and motivated) cultures has to end. Ardern did her commendable piece, the sheikh (never can remember his name) honoured her in the name of Muslims worldwide.

That's something, and it might be something to prevent retaliation. That's worth more than any of your nitpicking and whataboutery.

Remember the Troubles in your own country?

^ I remember the troubles with despair, but avidly await your authoritative take.

Carry

Deleted User wrote: »

^ I remember the troubles with despair, but avidly await your authoritative take.

Have a cup of tea while you wait ... calms the nerves, so I've heard.

Carry

Carry wrote: »

Have a cup of tea while you wait ... calms the nerves, so I've heard.

Stereotypes are easy to lean on as an outsider, in any event it will be appreciable to receive a perspective free of jaundice.

Carry

Deleted User wrote: »

Stereotypes are easy to lean on as an outsider, in any event it will be appreciable to receive a perspective free of jaundice.

Stereotypes - I used to live in Belfast before the Peace Agreement and got to know the rogues. Have you ever been north of Cavan?
Outsider - I had as such a very good insight on both sides.
Jaundice - see above.

The GFA came about step by step, by slowly avoiding retaliation, by acknowledging or at least tolerating each others culture, at least officially.

The Troubles are over, apart from some splinters that cannot let go, but are irrelevant. And it was step by step, not decided now and realised at once.

Same with the wider divide between Islam and Christianity.
A hand reaches out, another reaches back. It's a small gesture but might be the beginnung of a way to some sort of peace.

Now have that cup of tea to mull that over.

irishproduce

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

That NZ premier is getting on my wick a little...her need to make herself the centre of attention after this tragedy is quite obsessive....will she perhaps ask the ruler of a nation with indentured slavery to remove her image from the building ...or is propaganda the winner here for both

She's being painful yes, but you should understand the responses and actions are all grounded in fear.
Fear of retaliation or further attacks from Muslim people who would be rightly aggrieved by what happened.
It is vital to show solidarity and tolerance. No one wants culture or religious wars on their shores.

Carry

Carry wrote: »

Stereotypes - I used to live in Belfast before the Peace Agreement and got to know the rogues. Have you ever been north of Cavan?
Outsider - I had as such a very good insight on both sides.
Jaundice - see above.

The GFA came about step by step, by slowly avoiding retaliation, by acknowledging or at least tolerating each others culture, at least officially.

The Troubles are over, apart from some splinters that cannot let go, but are irrelevant. And it was step by step, not decided now and realised at once.

Same with the wider divide between Islam and Christianity.
A hand reaches out, another reaches back. It's a small gesture but might be the beginnung of a way to some sort of peace.

Now have that cup of tea to mull that over.

A rather feeble interpretation, but feel free to stretch out the arms and pat yourself on the back. Without the mundane paddywhackery.

Gimme A Pound

The guy has no time for women, let alone women being in positions of authority. Seems pretty disingenuous.

Carry

Deleted User wrote: »

A rather feeble interpretation, but feel free to stretch out the arms and pat yourself on the back. Without the mundane paddywhackery.

Says the one who didn't deliver any argument about the key question.

This thread is not about the Troubles (that was an example for those in the political know) but about a politician who did something all the right wingers can't get their heads around.

Can you?

Carry

Carry wrote: »

Says the one who didn't deliver any argument about the key question.

This thread is not about the Troubles (that was an example for those in the political know) but about a politician who did something all the right wingers can't get their heads around.

Can you?

It was a shallow, self-congratulatory gesture designed to portray a regressive regime in a positive light. Be sure to assign further cheap labels willy nilly.

Wibbs

Karter Fierce Business wrote: »

The guy has no time for women, let alone women being in positions of authority. Seems pretty disingenuous.

Like I reckoned earlier G: Getting praise from a snake is no praise and there's usually an angle.

Carry

Wibbs wrote: »

Like I reckoned earlier G: Getting praise from a snake is no praise and there's usually an angle.

Wibbs, as much as I appreciate most of your comments, but that's a very simplistic argument that rejects every effort to get a diplomatic approach towards understanding.

In a complicated world it is very destructive to see "snakes" in every action.

Just take one gesture for face value for once.

Carry

Deleted User wrote: »

It was a shallow, self-congratulatory gesture designed to portray a regressive regime in a positive light. Be sure to assign further cheap labels willy nilly.

It was neither shallow nor congratulatory, and NZ isn't a regressive regime, their neighbour Australia is.

Be sure to assign further cheap labels willy nilly?

Or have another cup of tea?

Gosh I knew why I kept away from AH political discussions. The arguments are just ... keyboard slobby ...

Carry

Carry wrote: »

It was neither shallow nor congratulatory, and NZ isn't a regressive regime, their neighbour Australia is.

Be sure to assign further cheap labels willy nilly?

Or have another cup of tea?

Gosh I knew why I kept away from AH political discussions. The arguments are just ... keyboard slobby ...

A tame effort at deflection goes awry. I was referring to the UAE, but convince yourself otherwise. If you find it difficult in AH, a creche might be more fitting for your substantive train of thought.