All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

digzy

It’s amusing reading all the posts writing off the cats...

In the odd occasion they lose its usually by a fairly small margin. I’d expect limerick to edge it next day but I’m certain the winner will win the all Ireland

Last Stop

Pogue eile wrote: »

Wow, thats some statement!

Not a hope of any Tipp player winning hurler of the year, If they win the AI then they will have won 7 from 8 - so unless Austin Gleeson pulls a rabbit out of the hat I would say that Seamie Callanan would be nailed on. If we believe the bookies its a 33% chance, so not a hope seems fancifull at best.


''Of the 4 wins 3 came against inferior opposition'', wow that is some insight right there! And shur they only won because they scored more :rolleyes:

Tight and tenacious, jaysus you love a good cliché! Tipp over the years have had more success than any other team at dismantling the sweeper - ask any Waterford fans!

Wexford are an extremely hard team to beat, again another cliché that doesnt actually mean anything! Tipp are 5 from 6, so are they not a hard team to beat? Another way to put it would be Wexford find it extremely difficult to win.

When Tipp get rattled they struggle, again hardly prophetic now is it, what team gets rattled and flourishes as a matter of interest?

And my man point being, Tipp won’t win the AI. Even if they do, I can’t think of a Tipp player who has stood out and made me think “yeah hurler of the year”. Callanan has been good don’t get me wrong but hasn’t set the world alight. If I look at the other teams, I would say
Wexford: Lee Chin (even though he was very quiet in the Leinster final) Diarmuid O’Keefe or Liam Og would be in contention
Limerick: Gillane or Sean Finn
KK: TJ, Huw Lawlor or Adrian Mullan have a shout (can see Mullan winning Young hurler if KK win the AI)

The three teams Tipp bet in Munster were incredibly poor this year but for Corks win over Limerick. Cork proved against KK just how poor their defence it and how reliant they are on Horgan. The other two played right into Tipps hands with stand off marking and a sweeper. This is exactly what Tipp as give them space and they have some of the most skilful players in Ireland.

Wexford on the other hand are well used to using a sweeper and have improved their defence. They like to intimidate their men as Hanlon did with TJ. This will not suit Tipp. Honestly I don’t see Tipp having enough ball winners in the forwards against a decent Wexford back line. Add in James Barry who is liable to make mistakes and you’d have to fancy Wexford.

As a matter of interest, I think this KK team thrive when teams challenge them physically and try to rattle them. That is when the fighting spirit comes out and going man for man suits KK far better then standing off and leaving space.

farmerval

Talk about Hurler at this time of the year is a waste of time, Patrick Horgan has to be the stand out player but won't win it. Whoever from the semi's and final has a dramatic inout, most likely in the scoring department will presumably get HOTY.

Up until last weekend Kilkenny had beaten Carlow and Dublin in the championship, so talk of the teams Tipp had beaten in Munster as being weak is a little bit off.

Actually form all round has been curiously off this year, Cork beating Limerick didn't tally with their other three losses. Having beaten Kilkenny no-one expected Galway to lose to Dublin, then Dublin losing to Laois.

Form all round has been topsy turvy, and I assume we are all over sensitive to the most recent result, good or bad.

RoyalCelt

Can't wait for this weekends hurling. Naturally as a neutral I'll be cheering for Limerick and Wexford. Very nervous though. I'm expecting KK's best performance of the year and if Limerick of not 100% I think they'll lose.

As for Wexford I think they can win but hopefully the pressure doesn't get to them. A LimVsWex final would be incredible but it seems too good to be true. Party like it's 1996!

windy shepard henderson

RoyalCelt wrote: »

Can't wait for this weekends hurling. Naturally as a neutral I'll be cheering for Limerick and Wexford. Very nervous though. I'm expecting KK's best performance of the year and if Limerick of not 100% I think they'll lose.

As for Wexford I think they can win but hopefully the pressure doesn't get to them. A LimVsWex final would be incredible but it seems too good to be true. Party like it's 1996!

actually wexford have a great chance of winning the all ireland , fitz hasnt a clue in how to win remedial championship games in june ( this drove us mad in clare
) , but he dose know how to win at this stage of the year i would not back against him no way

Pogue eile

Last Stop wrote: »

And my man point being, Tipp won’t win the AI. Even if they do, I can’t think of a Tipp player who has stood out and made me think “yeah hurler of the year”. Callanan has been good don’t get me wrong but hasn’t set the world alight. If I look at the other teams, I would say
Wexford: Lee Chin (even though he was very quiet in the Leinster final) Diarmuid O’Keefe or Liam Og would be in contention
Limerick: Gillane or Sean Finn
KK: TJ, Huw Lawlor or Adrian Mullan have a shout (can see Mullan winning Young hurler if KK win the AI)

The three teams Tipp bet in Munster were incredibly poor this year but for Corks win over Limerick. Cork proved against KK just how poor their defence it and how reliant they are on Horgan. The other two played right into Tipps hands with stand off marking and a sweeper. This is exactly what Tipp as give them space and they have some of the most skilful players in Ireland.

Wexford on the other hand are well used to using a sweeper and have improved their defence. They like to intimidate their men as Hanlon did with TJ. This will not suit Tipp. Honestly I don’t see Tipp having enough ball winners in the forwards against a decent Wexford back line. Add in James Barry who is liable to make mistakes and you’d have to fancy Wexford.

As a matter of interest, I think this KK team thrive when teams challenge them physically and try to rattle them. That is when the fighting spirit comes out and going man for man suits KK far better then standing off and leaving space.

6-14 from play and becoming the all time top scorer from play but according to last stop - 'hasn't set the world alight'' but in the same breath you claim that Lee Chin - a grand total of 4pts from play, Liam Og a huge total of 1-03 and AdriamMullen who has scored a very respectable 8pts from play - are bigger standouts for hurler of the year :D

Your some judge of the game alright

Greensoup

Big factor for both games is how limerick and Wexford cope with the 4 week break. Can see tipp and kk starting fast and looking for goals. First 10 minutes will tell us a lot about the effect of the break.

The_Kew_Tour

I still feel Cats will have to up 2 gears to beat Limerick, but it's the Cats and you can never write them off. I think Cork made them look good and they will face a far tougher physical challenge.

Limerick by 4

The other game is so hard to call. I still think Wexford are underrated and Tipp a little overrated, but I think this is so hard to call. It depends on how Wexford approach the break.

Wexford by 2

mountgomery burns

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

actually wexford have a great chance of winning the all ireland , fitz hasnt a clue in how to win remedial championship games in june ( this drove us mad in clare
) , but he dose know how to win at this stage of the year i would not back against him no way

Was the exact opposite under Waterford to be honest. Pretty small sample size with Clare to be saying he knows how to win these games too, they only made one all Ireland semi.

I'd expect Wexford to give Tipp a good rattle all the same.

randd1

Kilkenny v Wexford AI Final
Limerick v Wexford AI Final
Limerick V Tipperary AI Final
Kilkenny v Tipperary AI Final

There isn't one pairing that wouldn't look appealing as the pairing for the big day. I know that a Kilkenny/Wexford or Limerick/Tipperary final would mean a 3rd meeting of the summer, but they would still be massive hyped games.

Personally, I'd love a Kilkenny/Wexford final, we've played Limerick in a final in 2007, a SF in 2014 and the QF last year and in 2012, Kilkenny/Tipp needs no introduction, a Kilkenny/Wexford knockout match would be something new to look forward to, the atmosphere in the build up in Kilkenny and Wexford would be something else.

gmurphy70

farmerval wrote: »

As a Tipp man, we have no bench, the U21 crop from last year are not doing it. Billy McCarthy and Bonnar are huge losses. James Barry's weakness has us sitting Paidi Maher deeper than usual and has restricted the quality of ball we are playing into our forward line. Wexford have their weaknesses as well but they finish games strongly, they have an extremely fit team, they really are in bonus territory and give a real cut at this one. (Imagine Davy Fitz telling Wexford they've achieved their goals and just go out and enjoy themselves)
I am definitely not saying that Tipp will beat Wexford, but I do think that both teams in the other semi would prefer to face Wexford in the final.

Don’t understand, why would KK or Limerick prefer to play Wexford than Tipperary in the final? The way I see it Kilkenny were beaten by Wex in Croke Park already this year, Limerick hammered Tipperary in the Munster final with Tipperary have showed nothing to convince me that if they played Limerick again it wouldn’t be the same result.

Last Stop

Pogue eile wrote: »

6-14 from play and becoming the all time top scorer from play but according to last stop - 'hasn't set the world alight'' but in the same breath you claim that Lee Chin - a grand total of 4pts from play, Liam Og a huge total of 1-03 and AdriamMullen who has scored a very respectable 8pts from play - are bigger standouts for hurler of the year :D

Your some judge of the game alright

6-14 in 6 games so an average of 1-3... including a game Tipp won by 18pts. Tj averaged 1-4 in the two games KK have lost this year
I didn’t rate the other players on their scoring in the championship but their performances. It’s hurler of the year not top scorer.
I believe Liam Og and Lee Chin have been superb for Wexford this year even though they may not have scored much.
Mullen in his first year of senior championship at just 19 has more than held his own including a brilliant goal against Wexford (which you conveniently left out) and has set up some brilliant scores for other players.

conor05

randd1 wrote: »

Kilkenny v Wexford AI Final
Limerick v Wexford AI Final
Limerick V Tipperary AI Final
Kilkenny v Tipperary AI Final

There isn't one pairing that wouldn't look appealing as the pairing for the big day. I know that a Kilkenny/Wexford or Limerick/Tipperary final would mean a 3rd meeting of the summer, but they would still be massive hyped games.

Personally, I'd love a Kilkenny/Wexford final, we've played Limerick in a final in 2007, a SF in 2014 and the QF last year and in 2012, Kilkenny/Tipp needs no introduction, a Kilkenny/Wexford knockout match would be something new to look forward to, the atmosphere in the build up in Kilkenny and Wexford would be something else.

Have to say would love a KK v Wexford final myself, Cody v Davy. It would be a colorful, very close exciting final.

I think it’s going to be a Limerick v Wexford.

iebamm2580

conor05 wrote: »

Have to say would love a KK v Wexford final myself, Cody v Davy. It would be a colorful, very close exciting final.

I think it’s going to be a Limerick v Wexford.

Think tipp will beat Wexford due to Davy's tactics and hopefully Kilkenny win the other because we have better chance of beating Kilkenny again due to there style of play.

Pogue eile

Last Stop wrote: »

6-14 in 6 games so an average of 1-3... including a game Tipp won by 18pts. Tj averaged 1-4 in the two games KK have lost this year
I didn’t rate the other players on their scoring in the championship but their performances. It’s hurler of the year not top scorer.
I believe Liam Og and Lee Chin have been superb for Wexford this year even though they may not have scored much.
Mullen in his first year of senior championship at just 19 has more than held his own including a brilliant goal against Wexford (which you conveniently left out) and has set up some brilliant scores for other players.

Liam Og and Lee Chin havent even been Wexfords best forward for gods sake stop digging man.

Apologies to young Mullen, forgot about his great goal, leading contender for YHOTY - between himself and Kyle Hayes - but HOTY is beyond silly, again he hasnt even been KK's best forward.

I think your hatred for all things Blue and Gold may be clouding your judgement just a little

mountgomery burns

Pogue eile wrote: »

Liam Og and Lee Chin havent even been Wexfords best forward for gods sake stop digging man.

Apologies to young Mullen, forgot about his great goal, leading contender for YHOTY - between himself and Kyle Hayes - but HOTY is beyond silly, again he hasnt even been KK's best forward.

I think your hatred for all things Blue and Gold may be clouding your judgement just a little

Just on that as you referenced him, but I think Rory O Connor should be front runner for YHOTY at this point.

PTH2009

Tbh any of the 4 teams playing this weekend can beat each other on there day

Limerick vs Wexford final for me I think

Pogue eile

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Just on that as you referenced him, but I think Rory O Connor should be front runner for YHOTY at this point.

I didnt realise he still qualified if I'm totally honest and I agree fully, and yes he was the best Wexford forward that I was referring to. From a Tipp persepecive I would have genuine fear of him runing at pace at our backs.

longshotvalue

farmerval wrote: »

Talk about Hurler at this time of the year is a waste of time, Patrick Horgan has to be the stand out player but won't win it. Whoever from the semi's and final has a dramatic inout, most likely in the scoring department will presumably get HOTY.

Up until last weekend Kilkenny had beaten Carlow and Dublin in the championship, so talk of the teams Tipp had beaten in Munster as being weak is a little bit off.

Actually form all round has been curiously off this year, Cork beating Limerick didn't tally with their other three losses. Having beaten Kilkenny no-one expected Galway to lose to Dublin, then Dublin losing to Laois.

Form all round has been topsy turvy, and I assume we are all over sensitive to the most recent result, good or bad.

I think he can as he's miles ahead at the moment, and what he did last day wil still be in the minds . He looks a certainty to get nominated (25/1 EW looks a great bet to me) . DEpending on who wins semi's he may not have a lot of compedition

C__MC

I think colin fennelly has been brilliant this year
Definitely all star form for me
He's a nightmare to mark and sets up many scores

The_Kew_Tour

aidankkk wrote: »

I think he can as he's miles ahead at the moment, and what he did last day wil still be in the minds . He looks a certainty to get nominated (25/1 EW looks a great bet to me) . DEpending on who wins semi's he may not have a lot of compedition

It's hard to see it. You really have to win some silverware to have some chance imo. If Cork won Munster and got beat in semi maybe but I think he has no chance now. He be nominated and that's as good as gesture as he will get.

threeball

aidankkk wrote: »

farmerval wrote: »

Talk about Hurler at this time of the year is a waste of time, Patrick Horgan has to be the stand out player but won't win it. Whoever from the semi's and final has a dramatic inout, most likely in the scoring department will presumably get HOTY.

Up until last weekend Kilkenny had beaten Carlow and Dublin in the championship, so talk of the teams Tipp had beaten in Munster as being weak is a little bit off.

Actually form all round has been curiously off this year, Cork beating Limerick didn't tally with their other three losses. Having beaten Kilkenny no-one expected Galway to lose to Dublin, then Dublin losing to Laois.

Form all round has been topsy turvy, and I assume we are all over sensitive to the most recent result, good or bad.

I think he can as he's miles ahead at the moment, and what he did last day wil still be in the minds . He looks a certainty to get nominated (25/1 EW looks a great bet to me) . DEpending on who wins semi's he may not have a lot of compedition

I don't think it'll matter. The HOTY only ever comes from the all Ireland finalists, I'm struggling to even remember a semi finalist who won it (Gleeson???). Unfortunately there's no weight put in anything bar the final two games, early championship & league be-damned.

RMAOK

threeball wrote: »

I don't think it'll matter. The HOTY only ever comes from the all Ireland finalists, I'm struggling to even remember a semi finalist who won it (Gleeson???). Unfortunately there's no weight put in anything bar the final two games, early championship & league be-damned.

Yep - gleeson was the last one in 2016. Before that you'd have to go back to Dan shanahan in 2007. So the idea of Horgan winning HOTY from a 1/4 final team is stretching it a bit tbh.

Realt Dearg Sec

It probably is time to start considering earlier matches. This thing if only including finalists with the odd exception from the semi made some sense when teams were only playing four and five matches to win out. Nowadays teams are playing eight matches to win, there's a much bigger set of data to draw from and see the form of players from every team in championship. Horgan's brilliance this year is the reason Cork went as far as they did. His performance in the last match is one of the best individual performances I've seen on a losing team, one of the best on any team. But it's true what people are saying, these last three matches every year kind of eclipse everything that went before in our memories.

threeball

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

It probably is time to start considering earlier matches. This thing if only including finalists with the odd exception from the semi made some sense when teams were only playing four and five matches to win out. Nowadays teams are playing eight matches to win, there's a much bigger set of data to draw from and see the form of players from every team in championship. Horgan's brilliance this year is the reason Cork went as far as they did. His performance in the last match is one of the best individual performances I've seen on a losing team, one of the best on any team. But it's true what people are saying, these last three matches every year kind of eclipse everything that went before in our memories.

I think just going back to the early rounds isn't enough. It's called HOTY not hurler of the championship. If we want to break it down then we should have a HOTL and HOTC otherwise you take the year as a whole. If Limerick lose to KK at the weekend it's unlikely they'll even have a nominee and they won the league plus got to a semi. There's something wrong there. Excellence throughout the year should be recognised not hitting a vein of form with 3 games to go.

Last Stop

Pogue eile wrote: »

Liam Og and Lee Chin havent even been Wexfords best forward for gods sake stop digging man.

Apologies to young Mullen, forgot about his great goal, leading contender for YHOTY - between himself and Kyle Hayes - but HOTY is beyond silly, again he hasnt even been KK's best forward.

I think your hatred for all things Blue and Gold may be clouding your judgement just a little

If you watch the Leinster final back, Liam Og was by far Wexford’s best player and has been consistent this year.

Of the KK forwards, who has been better than Mullen over the 6 matches? TJ has been exceptional as always but scoring very little from play ( nothing vs Wexford or Cork) and I would say Colin hasn’t been as good as he could be (although still incredibly tough to mark and being fouled almost constantly). The other 3 forwards have been chopped and changed so much that you couldn’t pick any of them above Mullen. HOTY may be a long shot but if he has a good game on Sunday (and hopefully in the final) then he won’t be too far away.

While I cannot deny my dislike of Tipp, I just don’t think this team is as good as some are making out. The standard in Munster was incredibly poor this year with Waterford and Clare well below par for whatever reason. Laois were good but never really threatened especially after the red card and yet Tipp didn’t kick on like you’d expect a good team to. The majority of the scores came from the half back line, in fact the Tipp forwards only managed a total of 1-7 from play.

Sunday will tell a lot about what this Tipp team are really made of and if recent history has proven anything, they tend to come out on the wrong side of tight matches more often then not.

iebamm2580

Last Stop wrote: »

If you watch the Leinster final back, Liam Og was by far Wexford’s best player and has been consistent this year.

Of the KK forwards, who has been better than Mullen over the 6 matches? TJ has been exceptional as always but scoring very little from play ( nothing vs Wexford or Cork) and I would say Colin hasn’t been as good as he could be (although still incredibly tough to mark and being fouled almost constantly). The other 3 forwards have been chopped and changed so much that you couldn’t pick any of them above Mullen. HOTY may be a long shot but if he has a good game on Sunday (and hopefully in the final) then he won’t be too far away.

While I cannot deny my dislike of Tipp, I just don’t think this team is as good as some are making out. The standard in Munster was incredibly poor this year with Waterford and Clare well below par for whatever reason. Laois were good but never really threatened especially after the red card and yet Tipp didn’t kick on like you’d expect a good team to. The majority of the scores came from the half back line, in fact the Tipp forwards only managed a total of 1-7 from play.

Sunday will tell a lot about what this Tipp team are really made of and if recent history has proven anything, they tend to come out on the wrong side of tight matches more often then not.

This Kilkenny team don't fare too well in tight games in case you might have missed that too.

mistermiyagi

threeball wrote: »

I think just going back to the early rounds isn't enough. It's called HOTY not hurler of the championship. If we want to break it down then we should have a HOTL and HOTC otherwise you take the year as a whole. If Limerick lose to KK at the weekend it's unlikely they'll even have a nominee and they won the league plus got to a semi. There's something wrong there. Excellence throughout the year should be recognised not hitting a vein of form with 3 games to go.

A win in the All Ireland Puc Fada up the Cooley mountains on the Aug weekend should secure the Hurler of the Year title for Pat Horgan. He's not done yet.

galwaylad14

I think that just based on the two provincial finals (and a nothing QF for Tipp) that people are now over rating Wexford and under rating Tipp.

It's only a few weeks ago that Tipp were hurling out of their skins and putting up huge totals on everyone, they've lost Bonnar since but they certainly haven't become a bad team overnight. They've a slightly dodgy full back line but a superb half backline. Noel McGrath is having a fine year at midfield but finding the right partner for him seems to be proving an issue. Up front in Callanan, John McGrath, Forde and Bubbles they have 4 potential match winners.

Wexford are hurling well, they're very solid, don't give up scores easily and have developed a system that suits their players. But Tipp just have far more firepower up front and that will see them over the line. I think the only way Wexford win this is if they can manage 2 or 3 goals and hope Tipp's forwards have an off day.

I expect the other semi final to be tighter, Kilkenny will match Limerick's physicality and work rate which is definitley priority number one when playing Limerick but I think ultimately Limerick have the better hurlers and once those short passes stick they'll have too much class for Kilkenny. Think Limerick will also find a way of denying Fennelly space through sitting their half back line very deep and drawing back their midfield and half forward line and this will go a long way towards shutting him down.

So Limerick Tipp final for me with Limerick winning it but by less than the Munster final.

Pogue eile

Last Stop wrote: »

The majority of the scores came from the half back line, in fact the Tipp forwards only managed a total of 1-7 from play.

3 is now the majority of 31 folks in case anyone was confused - why it matters where the scores came from is anyones guess but I said I'd indulge you a little.