Why is Waterford left out on a lot of tourist Itinaries

Christy Browne

my3cents wrote: »

I don't really see how you can compare Dungarvan with Waterford City. This thread is in the City forum after all.

What’s at the other end of the greenway again?

hardybuck

my3cents wrote: »

I don't really see how you can compare Dungarvan with Waterford City. This thread is in the City forum after all.

I'm not. We're discussing Waterford tourism. This is part of a wider conversation about what visitors to Waterford are coming down for.

my3cents

Christy Browne wrote: »

What’s at the other end of the greenway again?

The place you turn around and cycle back.

Christy Browne

my3cents wrote: »

The place you turn around and cycle back.

Sure why would you do that when you could head into Geoffs, Tully’s, Downses or Walsh’s for a pint.

Or why not visit the Waterford Treasures museum, Bishop’s Palace, Christchurch Cathedral, House of Waterford Crystal or Reginald’s Tower?

Head into Emiliano’s, McLeary’s, La Boheme, L’Atmosphere or Burzza for a bite to eat and then top the day off with a walk along the beach in Tramore, Dunmore East or Woodstown.

Not to mention the Copper Coast, the Comeraghs, the Theatre Royal, Garter Lane, Waterford Castle etc.

I could go on but you get the picture. Don’t let your own misery cloud your judgment of our wonderful city.

The Enbalmer

Harry Palmr wrote:

Dope. It's the fact people from two + hours away are willing to visit us to cycle a specific journey that's noteworthy.

Noteworthy is pushing it a bit.

Deiseen

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Noteworthy is pushing it a bit.

I know you're a WUM/Troll but:

1. You dont even know what a greenway is so you haven't even been on the Waterford one.
2. 81% of people on TripAdvisor have given it 5/5

Combine 1+2 above and means you are full of ****e

The Enbalmer

Deiseen wrote:

1. You dont even know what a greenway is so you haven't even been on the Waterford one. 2. 81% of people on TripAdvisor have given it 5/5

Deiseen wrote:

I know you're a WUM/Troll but:

Deiseen wrote:

Combine 1+2 above and means you are full of ****e

Sorry but are you incapable of articulating properly without spouting personal attacks.

I know full well what a greenway is,we have one pretty much the length of the royal canal...people don't visit another county just to cycle a greenway unless they're passing through from somewhere more interesting and already have bikes with them.

Of course I've heard of greenway I just havnt heard anything about the one in Waterford as I'm sure 99% of the population hasn't heard about it either.

kuang1

The Enbalmer wrote: »

I just havnt heard anything about the one in Waterford as I'm sure 99% of the population hasn't heard about it either.

Just put down the shovel dopey.

Deiseen

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Sorry,I'm in Dublin and I never heard of it.

Isn't a greenway just a path?

You seem to have figured out what a greenway is since your last post anyway.

The "path" is full of people from all over Ireland as has been stated by people here and backed up by tourist numbers.

If you flick through TripAdvisor for 10 seconds you will see reviews of people from Cork, Limerick, Wexford, Dublin, KK and Sydney.

It's not the kind of thing you can appreciate for a 30 min visit so it has to be planned in. This makes it quiet obvious that its a big reason for people's visits.

The Enbalmer

Deiseen wrote: »

You seem to have figured out what a greenway is since your last post anyway.

The "path" is full of people from all over Ireland as has been stated by people here and backed up by tourist numbers.

If you flick through TripAdvisor for 10 seconds you will see reviews of people from Cork, Limerick, Wexford, Dublin, KK and Sydney.

It's not the kind of thing you can appreciate for a 30 min visit so it has to be planned in. This makes it quiet obvious that its a big reason for people's visits.

Love it. Sydney being mentioned in the same breath as kilkenny

azimuth17

Why is anyone engaging with this pathetic troll?

The Enbalmer

azimuth17 wrote: »

Why is anyone engaging with this pathetic troll?

I really don't know..he can't be serious about this greenway being an international attraction yet he seems to be!

Harry Palmr

Get a job, if you have a job get one that keeps you busy

mooseknunkle

The Enbalmer wrote: »

I really don't know..he can't be serious about this greenway being an international attraction yet he seems to be!

I'll tell you a good one,a captain for Cathay Pacific heard about the Greenway in Singapore!,and the next time he was scheduled to fly to the Dublin from Hong kong he rented a car in the airport and drove to Carriganore rented a bike and cycled to Dungarvan and back!,imagine that and thats just one story,go onto any of the Greenway social media pages and you see people from all over Ireland and the world enjoying it.

partyguinness

Compared to Cork or Kerry Waterford doesn't really have a whole lot going for it TBH. I am not saying it has nothing and it has a few attractions it's just not as interesting. If you are that close to Cork or Kerry then why bother with Waterford.

partyguinness

Funnily enough I started this thread a few years back. Now I haven't been back since so it might be the greatest place in the world now.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85762890

Jump to post #9 for my impression.

bullpost

partyguinness wrote: »

Funnily enough I started this thread a few years back. Now I haven't been back since so it might be the greatest place in the world now.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=85762890

Jump to post #9 for my impression.

In fairness thats six years ago - Waterford really only getting going in the tourist game in the last few years imo. Theres lots of good things there but work needed on how to promote them internationally and nationally.

partyguinness

bullpost wrote: »

In fairness thats six years ago - Waterford really only getting going in the tourist game in the last few years imo. Theres lots of good things there but work needed on how to promote them internationally and nationally.

I come back to Ireland 2-3 times a year and looking in from abroad what is really promoted is the 'Wild Atlantic Way' or else Galway and Dublin or even Belfast and the Titanic. Superficially your attention is drawn away from Waterford.

It seems that Waterford falls between two bar stools.

Time

Although i haven't read the entire thread i'll throw in my two cents as someone who used to live in Waterford and is still there regularly enough. This also relates mostly to international tourists rather than domestic which is what any city really wants to attract anyway

1) Outside of Waterford Crystal and the few bits in the surrounding area there is absolutely nothing to do or see in Waterford City and there are no tours available that i'm aware of to things in the general area. If you want people to come they need things they can do and see, and as it stands i could do that in 6 hours. IMO his really makes it a place for a day trip only, it's also kind of out on its own but unlike Galway which also is, Waterford is not a good place to base your self for a holiday because of the lack of tours, whilst Cork, Dublin and Belfast have enough activities to be standalone destinations.

2) As someone else already stated there are no good hotels in the city centre area, comparatively they are average at best to whats available elsewhere. Several of the hotels are also on the Quay in that general area, and to be frank at night that area is an absolute kip. In fact entire city is relatively run down and unappealing when you compare it to other cities especially Galway. Theres nothing stopping people in Waterford painting their buildings to brighten up the place, and its certainly not the Governments job to do so

3) Lack of night time entertainment. Go to Dublin, Cork or Galway and the restaurants and night life have a huge variety of offerings that waterford just doesn't match up to.

4) Retail. Ireland is an expensive country to visit and people who come here generally have money to spend. The retail offering in Waterford is without doubt the worst of any city in Ireland by far. When i lived in Waterford i rarely bought anything in town and instead went to Cork or Dublin because the retail offering was so much better.

The Enbalmer

mooseknunkle wrote:

I'll tell you a good one,a captain for Cathay Pacific heard about the Greenway in Singapore!,and the next time he was scheduled to fly to the Dublin from Hong kong he rented a car in the airport and drove to Carriganore rented a bike and cycled to Dungarvan and back!,imagine that and thats just one story,go onto any of the Greenway social media pages and you see people from all over Ireland and the world enjoying it.

You're right..it's a good one.

If the entire planeload from Hong Kong were going to undertake this unlikely journey it might have some benefit..but a captain (if he exists) is still just one person.

partyguinness

The Enbalmer wrote: »

You're right..it's a good one.

If the entire planeload from Hong Kong were going to undertake this unlikely journey it might have some benefit..but a captain (if he exists) is still just one person.

WTF is the Greenway...[Google time]

Tombo2001

Couple of thoughts on this.

IMO there are only two towns really in Ireland that are worth more than an overnight stay.

Those are Dublin and Cork. For me, thats not up for question.

No-one is going to Waterford for a four night stay. There just aint enough to do, its not big enough.

So its in either
(i) the Day Trip / Overnight Trip category or
(ii) the base for exploring surrounding area.

Vis a vis day trip category - it is broadly speaking competing with other towns that are "within driving range of Dublin/ Dublin airport". If you want to be specific about where people are coming from.

And it is is competing with
Kilkenny/ Carlow/ Portlaoise/ Dundalk/ Armagh/ Birr/ Wexford/ Athlone/ Mullingar/ Galway/ Trim/ Navan/ Maynooth etc etc

Of that list
Kilkenny and Galway are by far the nicest. Sorry, thats just the way it is.

After that - Waterford is definitely up there. Nice town, some very attractive parts, a few crummy parts. Probably two challenges for it as a destination its own right are
(i) it has no 'hook' - no individual attraction that in itself makes it a worthwhile destination.....compared to say Kilkenny Castle or Maynooth University or Trim Castle. Still though, its one of the nicest towns in the above list.
(ii) it takes a bit longer to get to as a day trip. There is quite a big difference between a 120 minute drive (Waterford) and 80 minute drive (Kilkenny) when you only have a day or two.

Alternatively, as a base to explore surrounding area. Yes the South East is Great. But if a Japanese tourist was coming to Ireland for one week, I would definitely be sending them to Kerry or else Donegal.

So it is quite a tough sell, because you've got tough competition.

So if its selling itself - it has to be done in a way thats targetting people that have something that the South East has, that other Areas dont have.

In that respect - the Greenway is a big big plus, I would even say that Waterford is not making enough of the Greenway.

The other thing that should be looked at is a shuttle service that takes in the regions high points.

If I am a tourist in Waterford - and I dont have a car - how am I getting to Lismore, or the Nire, or Dunmore East? is that easy? Can I do that?

Tombo2001

If you know anything about tourism in Ireland, if you are somebody who is interested in visiting local Irish places to see nice scenery and do active things - then you will have heard of the Waterford Greenway.

Obviously some people are not in that category and have not heard of the Waterford Greenway.

debok

partyguinness wrote: »

WTF is the Greenway...[Google time]

You say your still regular in Waterford but haven't heard of Greenway. Ok

partyguinness

debok wrote: »

You say your still regular in Waterford but haven't heard of Greenway. Ok

Where did I say that?

The Enbalmer

Tombo2001 wrote:

If you know anything about tourism in Ireland, if you are somebody who is interested in visiting local Irish places to see nice scenery and do active things - then you will have heard of the Waterford Greenway.

Tell me,how much money are these greenway tourists spending locally to cycle up and down the track?

For tourism to be worth anything to a region you need to be attracting MILLIONS of them year on year. You need to have attractions that coachloads of Americans and Germans and Swedes will travel to Ireland specifically to see.

You will need top class hotels,midrange hotels,guesthouses and hostels.
There will need to be good quality restaurants and venues with quality tourist entertainment,world heritage sites with guided tours,guidebooks,maps and interpretive centres.

There will need to be direct access from Dublin and other centres,excellent WiFi,festivals,feastdays and breweries.

This is just a few of the requirements for international tourism.
A couple of dubs and an oriental airline pilot cycling up and down will NOT bring any significant tourist income to your town.

The attractions are either there or they are not...

partyguinness

Anyway this famous Greenway will only appeal to hardcore cycling enthusiasts as tourists. How many people do you know head off of cycling holidays relatively speaking?

Tombo2001

partyguinness wrote: »

Anyway this famous Greenway will only appeal to hardcore cycling enthusiasts as tourists. How many people do you know head off of cycling holidays relatively speaking?

Not really true at all.

Actually, its probably not long enough - has too many breaks - and too many users - to appeal to a hardcore cycling enthusiast.

Its not a cycling holiday. its easily done one way in a day.

And its every easy to hire a bike along the way, in multiple different locations.

I'm sure you are very interested in all this information, and not just in trying to knock it for no particular reason.

mooseknunkle

The Enbalmer wrote: »

You're right..it's a good one.

If the entire planeload from Hong Kong were going to undertake this unlikely journey it might have some benefit..but a captain (if he exists) is still just one person.

I dont know why im replying to you..but you're missing the point,its word of mouth that will make it a sucess as much as marketing,who knows who he told about it and who they told about it,and yes he exists his pic and his story is on one of the greenways social media pages.

Tombo2001

partyguinness wrote: »

Anyway this famous Greenway will only appeal to hardcore cycling enthusiasts as tourists. How many people do you know head off of cycling holidays relatively speaking?

Not really true at all.

Actually, its probably not long enough - has too many breaks - and too many users - to appeal to a hardcore cycling enthusiast.

Those guys will want to go up to the magnificent Comeragh and Knockmealdown mountains.

Its not a cycling holiday. its easily done one way in a day.

And its every easy to hire a bike along the way, in multiple different locations.

It would be particularly appealing to family with teenagers, or to older cyclists - its flat, is not especially demanding, and the one of the best things about the greenway of course is that there are no cars whizzing by you, which is especially important if you have kids on bikes. Its stress free.

I'm sure you are very interested in all this information, and are actively considering cycling the Greenway.

You should - its absolutely fantastic.

Tombo2001

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Tell me,how much money are these greenway tourists spending locally to cycle up and down the track?

.

Its only open two years.

Back of the envelope calculation.....if 300'000 people cycle it each year.....and its free.....then they will be spending zero to cycle up and down the track.

If they on average spent a 100 on food - before leaving waterford - en route - in dungarvan....

spent 50 on bike rental plus paying for bike company to collect them (which is standard)

spent 200 on accomodation as part of a two night break in south east...

that could be over a 100 million.

Not bad.

The Enbalmer

Tombo2001 wrote:

spent 200 on accomodation as part of a two night break in south east...

Tombo2001 wrote:

spent 50 on bike rental plus paying for bike company to collect them (which is standard)

Tombo2001 wrote:

If they on average spent a 100 on food - before leaving waterford - en route - in dungarvan....

So 350 quid each to cycle that path?

You know you can get a week in Malta including flights and accommodation for the same money?

A week sightseeing in London would probably cost that sort of money too.

100 quid a night for accommodation?
50 quid to hire a bike?
And 100 quid on food?

To cycle a crappy old cycle path?

You're deluded me old son.

Harry Palmr

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Tell me,how much money are these greenway tourists spending locally to cycle up and down the track?

For tourism to be worth anything to a region you need to be attracting MILLIONS of them year on year.

:rolleyes: Seriously do you just type randomly? What a region needs is enough and a relatively high personal spend.

Millions would swamp us all and destroy an notion of a pleasant locale to visit. Very few locations actually have millions a year outside of places like mega themed parks (or Las Vegas) which are of course designed specifically to part people from their money in a dedicated standalone environment.

The Enbalmer

And I'll tell you another thing. Cyclists don't like spending money. I used to work in an establishment along a well known scenic area and we would dread the packs of cyclists descending on the place.
The most they'd ever buy is a cup of coffee and would often break out thier own sandwiches in the pub.
They were bad for business too in that they took up valuable customer space whilst they sat around drinking tap water.
Absolute bunch of tight fisted clowns.

partyguinness

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Its only open two years.

Back of the envelope calculation.....if 300'000 people cycle it each year.....and its free.....then they will be spending zero to cycle up and down the track.

If they on average spent a 100 on food - before leaving waterford - en route - in dungarvan....

spent 50 on bike rental plus paying for bike company to collect them (which is standard)

spent 200 on accomodation as part of a two night break in south east...

that could be over a 100 million.

Not bad.

Tell me. How many people do you know go on holidays and take in a cycling tour as part of it. Not many if you are like me. So I have no idea where all these people are going to magically appear.

Now, cycling in the the south of France is one thing but some route through Waterford in pissey weather quite another.

Harry Palmr

In the first year (2017) Greenway cycle traffic was 141,000 - walking traffic was 105,000.

mooseknunkle

partyguinness wrote: »

Tell me. How many people do you know go on holidays and take in a cycling tour as part of it. Not many if you are like me. So I have no idea where all these people are going to magically appear.

Now, cycling in the the south of France is one thing but some route through Waterford in pissey weather quite another.

Have a read of this,its not just cycling.

http://www.waterfordcouncil.ie/media/greenway/WaterfordGreenway-BaselineSurveyReport-Jan2018.pdf

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/waterford-greenway-proves-popular-among-users-survey-finds-1.3330217

partyguinness

The Enbalmer wrote: »

And I'll tell you another thing. Cyclists don't like spending money. I used to work in an establishment along a well known scenic area and we would dread the packs of cyclists descending on the place.
The most they'd ever buy is a cup of coffee and would often break out thier own sandwiches in the pub.
They were bad for business too in that they took up valuable customer space whilst they sat around drinking tap water.
Absolute bunch of tight fisted clowns.

I can't disagree with that. I do a lot of running and a lot of my running buddies cycle as well (I don't have the time personally)- as in anything up to 80-100km at a time.

They will cycle off in gangs on a Sunday morning to a designated pub etc. I see this on Strava every week- they will sit in the pub/cafe whatever take a few groups selfies over some orange juice before setting off again. I am sure that they would counter by saying that a big **** off roast dinner and 3-4 pints is not conducive to a 3-4 hour pleasant cycle back home.

Let's just say the annual summer BBQ is not exactly the most happening gig in town. The walkers are the best craic but the runners and cyclists are just counting the calories and thinking about the big event the following morning. Dry out...and I'm just as guilty.

Harry Palmr

The Greenway isn't for Lyrca louts, which is not to say they don't use/abuse it but it's really designed for civilians who can be seen with their parent+baby bikes coming out of Carriganor every weekend.

The Enbalmer

Harry Palmr wrote:

In the first year (2017) Greenway cycle traffic was 141,000 - walking traffic was 105,000.

One way or return journeys and who compiled the results?

Harry Palmr

That detail escapes me (mind you I expect you'd argue that they were fake news in any event you seem to be that sort) there are shuttle buses which are free for those who hire bikes from the Waterford Greenway company. Most traffic seems to be east to west but obviously plenty of people start at Kilmac and go one way or other and turn round or get that bus before carrying on to wherever they live or otherwise are staying.

partyguinness

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The Greenway isn't for Lyrca louts, which is not to say they don't use/abuse it but it's really designed for civilians who can be seen with their parent+baby bikes coming out of Carriganor every weekend.

Lycra louts....LOL


I must remember that one.

mooseknunkle

The Enbalmer wrote: »

One way or return journeys and who compiled the results?

Its all in this

http://www.waterfordcouncil.ie/media/greenway/WaterfordGreenway-BaselineSurveyReport-Jan2018.pdf

The Enbalmer

That Times article is a press release from the Waterford tourist board.
250k visitors in one year? It will be as popular as newgrange soon.

Christy Browne

Another potentially interesting thread ruined by trolls in the Waterford forum

Deiseen

The Enbalmer wrote: »

That Times article is a press release from the Waterford tourist board.
250k visitors in one year? It will be as popular as newgrange soon.

After all of this, have you actually seen the Greenway? It goes by the river, past Mount Congreve, through Kimacthomas with the amazing coach house coffee house, over huge stone Viaducts, along the mountains, through the amazing Ballyvoyle tunnel and then along the coast into Dungarven.

You are literally dismissing something you have no clue about and think its just a crappy old path.

azimuth17

Christy Browne wrote: »

Another potentially interesting thread ruined by trolls in the Waterford forum

Agree Christy. A sad troll.

kuang1

azimuth17 wrote: »

Agree Christy. A sad troll.

A sad troll with more than one boards account.

IspeakcozIcan

partyguinness wrote: »

Now, cycling in the the south of France is one thing but some route through Waterford in pissey weather quite another.

Actually if you are going to go cycling in Ireland, Waterford is probably the best place for it. It's called the sunny south-east for a reason and gets significantly less rain and more sunshine than the west. It's a pretty good selling point for outdoor activities.

Just one other reason to love Waterford, as if there weren't enough already

Tombo2001

The Enbalmer wrote: »

So 350 quid each to cycle that path?

You know you can get a week in Malta including flights and accommodation for the same money?

A week sightseeing in London would probably cost that sort of money too.

100 quid a night for accommodation?
50 quid to hire a bike?
And 100 quid on food?

To cycle a crappy old cycle path?

You're deluded me old son.

Are you absolutely kidding me.

You'd barely get an overnight in London for 350 euro. Have you looked at hotel prices in London FFS...... 36 stg to get from the airport into the city......4 quid every time you go on the tube.

I've heard it all now......sure why not stop there......wouldnt you get a fortnight in Dubai for that; you get a palace in Tokyo for a month for that......a Manhattan condo for a year.

Come off it.

Look - you obviously have it in for the cycle path. Nothing anyone says who will change your mind. And the reason for that, I dont know and I dont care.