Why is Waterford left out on a lot of tourist Itinaries

IspeakcozIcan

kilkenny31 wrote: »

Really. I know plenty. They would prefer to socialise in the Uluru, Cove or Oscars because the centre of town has no appeal. Similarly with shopping. They find it's full of cheap shops.

I think investment will get you so far but civic pride will get you further. For example lady lane was recently renovated but it has not improved the appearance of the buildings. Similary to half o connenel street. It was renovated years back and still looks rough.

An example I have of civic pride is recently a sports shop opened on Kilkennys high street and there was uproar from a lot of people over the sinage and shop front. People thought it took from the area.
There has been a free for all over the last number of years in Waterford with cheap shops with cheap shop fronts and I haven't seen too many complaints. Small things like forcing people to maintain their properties and setting a standard for shops in the city would go a long way towards improving the city.
The reason people like the Viking triangle and mall area is the fact that it's not full of cheap shops and the buildings are well kept. The average person doesn't tend to realise what makes a place nice but most of the time it's as simple as a lick of paint and nice shop fronts.

I'm from the Dumore Road area as are a lot of my family and friends who all socialise in the city centre: lots of restaurants, Geoffs, Davy Macs, TUlly's Walsh's, Jordans, Downse's, Phil Grimes... The Reg if it's that kind of night.

Sorry but it's really not rough at all and I'm not saying that because I live in Dublin, it just isn't rough. Isn't it a purple safe city or something?

I'm glad you recognise that the Viking Triangle is such a lovely area. So much work has been done on it in recent years.

The Apple Market has also had a significant upgrade recently and has a great atmosphere now in the centre of the town on night's out, particularly in summer time.

The Enbalmer

IspeakcozIcan wrote:

The Waterford Greenway gets brilliant coverage in the media. It's brought towns back to life. It's a massive success story and in Dublin anyways people are well aware of it.

Sorry,I'm in Dublin and I never heard of it.

Isn't a greenway just a path?

Deiseen

IspeakcozIcan wrote: »

I'm from the Dumore Road area as are a lot of my family and friends who all socialise in the city centre: lots of restaurants, Geoffs, Davy Macs, TUlly's Walsh's, Jordans, Downse's, Phil Grimes... The Reg if it's that kind of night.

Sorry but it's really not rough at all and I'm not saying that because I live in Dublin, it just isn't rough. Isn't it a purple safe city or something?

I'm glad you recognise that the Viking Triangle is such a lovely area. So much work has been done on it in recent years.

The Apple Market has also had a significant upgrade recently and has a great atmosphere now in the centre of the town on night's out, particularly in summer time.

That part of their post has a DHOTYA air about it...

I'm not saying that Waterford doesn't have it's faults and doesn't need to improve or that it will never be the most beautiful city in Ireland.

But when you have someone coming on here, saying that there are swathes of people living in Waterford who fear for their lives so much, that they won't go into the city for some food or drink then you really have to question some of the motives.

Deiseen

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Sorry,I'm in Dublin and I never heard of it.

Isn't a greenway just a path?

That's strange considering that there's probably more dubs on the greenway than Waterford people.

The Enbalmer

Deiseen wrote:

That's strange considering that there's probably more dubs on the greenway than Waterford people.

I doubt if they've come down from Dublin just to use it though.

Deiseen

The Enbalmer wrote: »

I doubt if they've come down from Dublin just to use it though.

Well they are usually in big groups, have their high end road bikes with them and their lycra gear on so it must have played a fairly big part.

IspeakcozIcan

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Sorry,I'm in Dublin and I never heard of it.

Isn't a greenway just a path?

Technically I suppose! It's a trail for bikes and walkers along a scenic trail. In Waterford's case, it's along a disused rail line. It takes in the River Suir, Copper Coast, the mountains, aqueducts and a tunnel . It's pretty spectacular and a good day out. Waterford City to Dungarvan.

Here's a video

IspeakcozIcan

The Enbalmer wrote: »

I doubt if they've come down from Dublin just to use it though.

They do actually. It's a big draw.

alta stare

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Sorry,I'm in Dublin and I never heard of it.

Isn't a greenway just a path?

If your asking such a question then is it not that you never heard of the Waterford greenway it is that you have never heard of a greenway at all?

They are being created all over the country, how have you not heard about them?

IspeakcozIcan

Deiseen wrote: »

That part of their post has a DHOTYA air about it...

I'm not saying that Waterford doesn't have it's faults and doesn't need to improve or that it will never be the most beautiful city in Ireland.

But when you have someone coming on here, saying that there are swathes of people living in Waterford who fear for their lives so much, that they won't go into the city for some food or drink then you really have to question some of the motives.

Yeah it's gas! :rolleyes:

People who aren't from Waterford suggesting people who live there are scared to go into the City Centre at the weekend.... Couldn't be further from the truth. There's a lovely, relaxed atmosphere in there most weekends.

Maybe he's just used to the vibe of having a load of stags and hens around and thinks that's what makes a good night out? A lot of people are not into that.

Deiseen

IspeakcozIcan wrote: »

Yeah it's gas! :rolleyes:

People who aren't from Waterford suggesting people who live there are scared to go into the City Centre at the weekend.... Couldn't be further from the truth. There's a lovely, relaxed atmosphere in there most weekends.

Maybe he's just used to the vibe of having a load of stags and hens around and thinks that's what makes a good night out? A lot of people are not into that.

Just don't get it. Now, the apple market at 1am/2am is a bit hairy but its not like this is a rare phenomena within Ireland that only occurs in Waterford. Before that time then it's extremely relaxed.

IspeakcozIcan

Back to the itineraries, I think we will see Waterford City featuring on more year on year with or without the NQs.

Someone nailed it earlier mentioning the Glass Factory in Kilbarry. Tourism wise, I think it is what held the City Centre back. Tourists packed off not spending any money in restaurants or cafes. This has obviously changed now and in the last three years, there have been big increases.

I think the River Suir, which is so wide in comparison to the Liffey say, is another underused resource.

snotboogie

I’m surprised that the Coumshinguan Loop isn’t mentioned here. Probably my favorite hike in Ireland.

Wanderer78

snotboogie wrote:

I’m surprised that the Coumshinguan Loop isn’t mentioned here. Probably my favorite hike in Ireland.

It is a lovely walk, there's a couple of marked trails on the mountains

IspeakcozIcan

Bowlardo wrote: »

It’s years of making the wrong decisions.
The car park on the quay is dreadful. The quay should be the main amenity.
Whoever is making the decision in Waterford for the last 40 years have proven time and time again to make an absolute ****e of it.

Turning the quay in to a car park was a decision that still haunts Waterford today. That ****ing flowers by Lucy stand is in tatters but in fairness it sets the tone nicely for the rest of Waterford. Next up is the tower hotel which should have some tie in with the tower across the road but instead is some generic pissy color square ****ty hotel. Waterford city is cheap. The shop front are cheap looking. The tone was set years ago and it very very difficult to reverse the tide when I can only assume there is a serious amount of jackasses on the council

Should leave this post slide but... Waterford City is cheap? Back to the KK forum with you please. So much of the negativity on this thread seems to come from there. Why is that?

Deiseen

IspeakcozIcan wrote: »

Should leave this post slide but... Waterford City is cheap? Back to the KK forum with you please. So much of the negativity on this thread seems to come from there. Why is that?

You know exactly why that is, we all do!

Harry Palmr

Deiseen wrote: »

But totally agree on the Quay/Carpark, riverside amenity that totally wrecks the feel of the city. There must be a way to resolve this and aside from the North Quays, it should be priority number 1 for the council.

This is my admittedly still somewhat compromised vision for the south quays, the only advantage but a useful one is that the cars would be on the inside and a reduced capacity with the Greenway along the riverside with a walking strip. I'm sure it would be possible to build out into the Suir for more amenity space.

IspeakcozIcan wrote: »

Someone nailed it earlier mentioning the Glass Factory in Kilbarry. Tourism wise, I think it is what held the City Centre back. Tourists packed off not spending any money in restaurants or cafes. This has obviously changed now and in the last three years, there have been big increases.

I think the River Suir, which is so wide in comparison to the Liffey say, is another underused resource.

That was me

IspeakcozIcan

Harry Palmr wrote: »

This is my admittedly still somewhat compromised vision for the south quays, the only advantage but a useful one is that the cars would be on the inside and a reduced capacity with the Greenway along the riverside with a walking strip. I'm sure it would be possible to build out into the Suir for more amenity space.





That was me

Very exciting prospects there

IspeakcozIcan

Deiseen wrote: »

You know exactly why that is, we all do!

I actually don't get the level of negativity though. A successful Waterford benefits Kilkenny, its centre and the surrounding areas. That's quite obvious when you think it through.

Deiseen

IspeakcozIcan wrote: »

I actually don't get the level of negativity though. A successful Waterford benefits Kilkenny, its centre and the surrounding areas. That's quite obvious when you think it through.

Exactly! their retail offering is really suffering at the moment and their tourist numbers are noy much better than Waterford's. We need to support each for the benefit of the South East.

IspeakcozIcan

Deiseen wrote: »

Exactly! their retail offering is really suffering at the moment and their tourist numbers are noy much better than Waterford's. We need to support each for the benefit of the South East.

Absolutely. My mother is from KK and so I have relatives in KK. A lot of them work in Waterford City and their children would have summer jobs/part-time work there too. A strong Waterford means future generations can continue to do that and hopefully there will be more employment and better options.

This can happen while concurrently enjoying all KK has to offer.

looksee

debok wrote: »

Cycled the mayo Greenway. It's not a patch on the Waterford one I think meself. Lot of it you are on the actually road . Also for where it is it misses alot of the coastal scenery. I think Waterford one with its Riverside setting at the city end and coastal setting at dungarvan end with the tunnel and kilmac bridge in between makes it an unbelievable amenity. I wish there was camping or glamping somewhere along the way. I'd love to own bit of land near and it start up a site.

You would be up against Waterford Planners. We gave up and are working away in another county.

anawfulway

Sit and think about it two minutes in fairness. You're a tourist with a busy itinerary. What is there in Waterford city that is genuinely worth going out of your way to visit and is there enough of it to make even a whole days visit worthwhile.

Kilkenny is not what Waterford is competing with. Kilkenny is a short hop from Dublin, Waterford is an end point of a 3 hour journey. People will seriously consider if that 3 hour journey is worth their time. Waterford is competing with therefore: Galway, Cork, Limerick, Belfast, Killarney, Derry/Donegal.

Honestly presented with those options does Waterford offer enough to compete? I would say probably not at present or in the near future.

IspeakcozIcan

anawfulway wrote: »

Sit and think about it two minutes in fairness. You're a tourist with a busy itinerary. What is there in Waterford city that is genuinely worth going out of your way to visit and is there enough of it to make even a whole days visit worthwhile.

Kilkenny is not what Waterford is competing with. Kilkenny is a short hop from Dublin, Waterford is an end point of a 3 hour journey. People will seriously consider if that 3 hour journey is worth their time. Waterford is competing with therefore: Galway, Cork, Limerick, Belfast, Killarney, Derry/Donegal.

Honestly presented with those options does Waterford offer enough to compete? I would say probably not at present or in the near future.

It takes less than 2 hours to get to Waterford from Dublin though.....

I know, I drive it often enough.

First Up

I'm not from the area and my visits to both cities are usually of about 24 hours duration - as would be those of typical tourists.

The impression I gather on such visits is that KK is reasonably affluent, cultured and attractive to explore whereas in comparison Waterford is tacky and low brow.

Neither is my favourite place in Ireland but to the casual visitor (which includes tourists) KK is much the nicer and I think tourist traffic reflects that.

Howls of offended outrage can be placed here - I promise to read them all.

alta stare

anawfulway wrote: »

Sit and think about it two minutes in fairness. You're a tourist with a busy itinerary. What is there in Waterford city that is genuinely worth going out of your way to visit and is there enough of it to make even a whole days visit worthwhile.

Kilkenny is not what Waterford is competing with. Kilkenny is a short hop from Dublin, Waterford is an end point of a 3 hour journey. People will seriously consider if that 3 hour journey is worth their time. Waterford is competing with therefore: Galway, Cork, Limerick, Belfast, Killarney, Derry/Donegal.

Honestly presented with those options does Waterford offer enough to compete? I would say probably not at present or in the near future.

Kilkenny is a short hop whilst Waterford is a 3 hr journey.

Waterford is 25mins away from Kilkenny which makes it only 25mins more if travelling from Dublin to Waterford instead of Dublin to Kilkenny.

my3cents

IspeakcozIcan wrote: »

It takes less than 2 hours to get to Waterford from Dublin though.....

I know, I drive it often enough.

Then another half an hour to get anywhere if you are going via the Quays.

It takes me more time to get across the town than it does to drive 25 miles into the Ring Road. One of the main reasons I rarely bother.

uck51js9zml2yt

Where is Waterford?





I jest.....I've visited it as part of going somewhere else more interesting.

IspeakcozIcan

my3cents wrote: »

Then another half an hour to get anywhere if you are going via the Quays.

If you're staying in a hotel in Waterford City, you're either staying on the quays (Tower, Granville, Treacy's, Dooley's, Fitzwilliam) or a 5/10 minute drive from there.

alta stare

First Up wrote: »

I'm not from the area and my visits to both cities are usually of about 24 hours duration - as would be those of typical tourists.

The impression I gather on such visits is that KK is reasonably affluent, cultured and attractive to explore whereas in comparison Waterford is tacky and low brow.

Neither is my favourite place in Ireland but to the casual visitor (which includes tourists) KK is much the nicer and I think tourist traffic reflects that.

Howls of offended outrage can be placed here - I promise to read them all.

Would you go back and do some study ffs. Your junior cert is more important than posting idiotic comments on Boards.

anawfulway

alta stare wrote: »

Kilkenny is a short hop whilst Waterford is a 3 hr journey.

Waterford is 25mins away from Kilkenny which makes it only 25mins more if travelling from Dublin to Waterford instead of Dublin to Kilkenny.

Would driving be the primary mode of transport for a tourist? I dont know but would have my doubts. Even at that 2 hours from Dublin still leaves direct competition with a lot of very popular destinations.

IspeakcozIcan

First Up wrote: »

I'm not from the area and my visits to both cities are usually of about 24 hours duration - as would be those of typical tourists.

The impression I gather on such visits is that KK is reasonably affluent, cultured and attractive to explore whereas in comparison Waterford is tacky and low brow.

Neither is my favourite place in Ireland but to the casual visitor (which includes tourists) KK is much the nicer and I think tourist traffic reflects that.

Howls of offended outrage can be placed here - I promise to read them all.

No outrage. Just a suggestion, as you are someone who enjoys history, would you go do the tours in Reginald's Tour, Medieval Museum and Bishop's Palace and then come back to us?

Also go eat in La Boheme, Everret's, or Emiliano's. Find a nice pub for a few drinks (loads were mentioned earlier)...

I honestly think you will enjoy yourself.

alta stare

anawfulway wrote: »

Would driving be the primary mode of transport for a tourist? I dont know but would have my doubts. Even at that 2 hours from Dublin still leaves direct competition with a lot of very popular destinations.

It doesnt matter how you travel. The distance is almost the same. Train planes or automobiles.

Think about it. If it takes 2 hrs on a train from Dublin to Kilkenny. Kilkenny to Waterford 20 mins. That means a train to Dublin to Waterford would be still only about 2hr 20mins. So where is the short hop from Dublin to Kilkenny while Dublin to Waterford is supposedly a much longer journey (in your logic).

By the way before someone jumps in and says im wrong about the actual times i am merely being hypothetical and the times are not accurate hence the if at the start of my post.

First Up

IspeakcozIcan wrote:

I honestly think you will enjoy yourself.

I can enjoy myself anywhere but that isn't the point. A tourist or any casual visitor with limited knowledge of a city will be influenced by what they see and how it feels to be there. Waterford scores less well on that than other cities that it competes with for tourists.

anawfulway

alta stare wrote: »

It doesnt matter how you travel. The distance is almost the same. Train planes or automobiles.

Think about it. If it takes 2 hrs on a train from Dublin to Kilkenny. Kilkenny to Waterford 20 mins. That means a train to Dublin to Waterford would be still only about 2hr 20mins. So where is the short hop from Dublin to Kilkenny while Dublin to Waterford is supposedly a much longer journey (in your logic).

By the way before someone jumps in and says im wrong about the actual times i am merely being hypothetical and the times are not accurate hence the if at the start of my post.

I think you're fixating on Kilkenny again tbh which is problematic. It's pretty much a half way point on all public transport between Dublin and Waterford. Theres a big difference mentally in thinking "Sure Kilkenny is only an hour away" to going the whole way on the line to Waterford.

Also if you as an international tourist stop at Kilkenny you then have a decision whether to continue to Waterford or redirect towards Cashel, Cork, Killarney etc.

From a start journey point of view all the other 2 hour plus options are in play. In each case option Waterford is relatively weak unfortunately. Thats reality, arguing against it doesnt change it.

IspeakcozIcan

anawfulway wrote: »

I think you're fixating on Kilkenny again tbh which is problematic. It's pretty much a half way point on all public transport between Dublin and Waterford. Theres a big difference mentally in thinking "Sure Kilkenny is only an hour away" to going the whole way on the line to Waterford.

Also if you as an international tourist stop at Kilkenny you then have a decision whether to continue to Waterford or redirect towards Cashel, Cork, Killarney etc.

From a start journey point of view all the other 2 hour plus options are in play. In each case option Waterford is relatively weak unfortunately. Thats reality, arguing against it doesnt change it.

I'm afraid you brought up KK in your post and it is not the half way point. We have established that already.

Harry Palmr

Kilkenny is in no way shape or form halfway - Carlow is. Kilkenny is about as distant from Waterford as the Kilcullen M7/9 interchange is from the M50.

alta stare

anawfulway wrote: »

I think you're fixating on Kilkenny again tbh which is problematic. It's pretty much a half way point on all public transport between Dublin and Waterford. Theres a big difference mentally in thinking "Sure Kilkenny is only an hour away" to going the whole way on the line to Waterford.

Also if you as an international tourist stop at Kilkenny you then have a decision whether to continue to Waterford or redirect towards Cashel, Cork, Killarney etc.

From a start journey point of view all the other 2 hour plus options are in play. In each case option Waterford is relatively weak unfortunately. Thats reality, arguing against it doesnt change it.

Nope im not. You said KK is a hop away from Dublin and implied Waterford was alot further. Both are wrong. I travelled (still do twice a week) between KK and Waterford for a few years i know how long it takes to travel.

Deiseen

First Up wrote: »

I'm not from the area and my visits to both cities are usually of about 24 hours duration - as would be those of typical tourists.

The impression I gather on such visits is that KK is reasonably affluent, cultured and attractive to explore whereas in comparison Waterford is tacky and low brow.

Neither is my favourite place in Ireland but to the casual visitor (which includes tourists) KK is much the nicer and I think tourist traffic reflects that.

Howls of offended outrage can be placed here - I promise to read them all.

Need to correct you there. Tourist numbers in KK and Waterford are basically same. Tourists spend quiet a bit more money in Waterford though.

First Up

Deiseen wrote:

Need to correct you there. Tourist numbers in KK and Waterford are basically same. Tourists spend quiet a bit more money in Waterford though.

I assume you have data to support that but can I remind you that the OP asked why Waterford is left off tourist itineraries.

Some of us have offered reasons why we prefer other places.

Harry Palmr

First Up wrote: »

I assume you have data to support that

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109726014&postcount=16

First Up

Thanks; the link doesn't work but I'm not questioning its accuracy - just its relevance

azimuth17

The simple answer as to why Waterford is left off tourist itineraries is that the city is late coming to the tourism party. My father worked in KK in the 1960s and says it was dead as a dodo. The opening of the castle was the spur. they tried industry (a big textile factory opened there and failed spectacularly) without success as most tended to go to Waterford anyway and still do. Even Glanbia opened their huge (€300 million and counting) plant in Ferrybank. Waterford has always been a different "thing" than KK. That town has been a country market town always (no offence meant) and that is still largely its function. That ethos always survived. Waterford in contrast has had a huge number of economic ups and downs over the centuries leaving us with what we have for good or bad.Its only 20 years since the quays were fully working port and above all the place got a fierce clatter in 2008/11 when several large industries closed. KK is a nice town 30 minutes from Waterford. If people want to go there whats wrong with that? You might as well try to stop KK folk going to Tramore on a Sunday. Waterford city is trying as always to reinvent itself. The next couple of years will tell if that's successful. That success will feed into the economy of KK as it always has.

Deiseen

First Up wrote: »

Thanks; the link doesn't work but I'm not questioning its accuracy - just its relevance

You said Kilkenny is much nicer and that the tourist numbers reflect that. When in fact the numbers are pretty much the same and you could actually say Waterford does better as they spend a fair bit more here.

I think people have heard bad things about Waterford and when they visit and see something, that they would literally see nywhere in Ireland/the world, then they go "yep, i knew it! Waterford is rough as feck" when in fact its just the world we live in. Once again, not saying its the safest or most beautiful place in the world but its not as bad as people are making out on here.

I've spoken to many tourists about Waterford and while it hasn't blown them away, they have not left with any bad impression what so ever (aside from one!). Most even liked it can you believe.

First Up

Deiseen wrote:

You said Kilkenny is much nicer and that the tourist numbers reflect that. When in fact the numbers are pretty much the same and you could actually say Waterford does better as they spend a fair bit more here.

Its true I would have expected KK to have the bigger number of tourists but I was mostly offering my personal comparison between the two cities as places to visit.

I suspect Waterford did well out of the Waterford Crystal connection (maybe it still does). It was its best asset in terms of branding.

Deiseen

First Up wrote: »

Its true I would have expected KK to have the bigger number of tourists but I was mostly offering my personal comparison between the two cities as places to visit.

I suspect Waterford did well out of the Waterford Crystal connection (maybe it still does). It was its best asset in terms of branding.

And that's fine, you can prefer Kilkenny. It's a very lovely place.

The point I'm trying to make is that if people think Waterford isn't nice then they must think the vast majority of places in Ireland are not nice.

The Enbalmer

IspeakcozIcan wrote:

I think the River Suir, which is so wide in comparison to the Liffey say, is another underused resource.

Is this the river that is largely mud except at high tide?

First Up

Deiseen wrote:

The point I'm trying to make is that if people think Waterford isn't nice then they must think the vast majority of places in Ireland are not nice.

I can think of a lot of places that I prefer to visit but full marks for sticking up for your home town.

Deiseen

The Enbalmer wrote: »

Is this the river that is largely mud except at high tide?

Yeah, like many many many rivers in the world including the Thames which is an extremely busy river in terms of boats/cruises.

The Enbalmer

Deiseen wrote:

Yeah, like many many many rivers in the world including the Thames which is an extremely busy river in terms of boats/cruises.

The Thames being the principal river of one of the most famous cities in the world with some of the world's most identifiable buildings along it's banks.

Can you remind me what Waterfords river has to recommend it?