Why are people obsessed with getting a pension

Jim2007

neutral guy wrote: »

The pension funds is the same as charity organisations.The top man has 20K salary per month,couple clerks has 15K and they all happy.Can somebody tell me why when I bring to pension fund 2K per year on end of the year I have bill :

All paid in 2000
Administration fee 500
Annual loss due with markets "jumps" 500
Your balance on end of the year is 1000

Well guys,can somebody tell me why I have pay 500 euros per year feeding guys who create me loss of 500 per year ?
You know what ? The bar of gold cost 360 buks in 2002 ,today it cost about 1900
Why should I share my money with guys in pension funds who waste them if I could buy bar of gold and throw it on attic lets say for another 20 years ?
I am not gonna feed anybody and I dont believe any pension funds !

And also guys,can somebody explain me why people got pennies on pensions or loss when markets are on top of the history sky height ?

Here is a little bit of advice for you, next time don't make unfounded statements on financial forums because there are going to be people there with a lot more knowledge and experience and they will call you out on it.

Your latest rambling confuses the cost of running an asset management firm with the costs of a pension, but don't worry we now have a measure of you and will treat you accordingly.

Jim2007

JJayoo wrote: »

Don't have kids and you won't have to worry about pensions, expensive little cnuts

Alternatively you could make sure they do well in life and live of them in later life

AnRothar

colm_c wrote: »

Still not seeing the correlation.

No kids, don't save for retirement?

Kids, don't save for retirement?

A pension is merely a vehicle to allow a way to save for retirement with tax benefits.

Kids or not you should have something put away for retirement.

Kids are expensive.
When you have children there is often not a lot left over.
Saving for a pension is both desirable and commendable.
Priorities in real life often require hard choices.

Liamo57

Im 62, got a great redundancy last year. Have a pension and a lovely part time job and my health. A pension is so important, life is brilliant, and I get up each morning abd I can do what I want Paradise..... thats how important a pension is.

AlmightyCushion

neutral guy wrote: »

The pension funds is the same as charity organisations.The top man has 20K salary per month,couple clerks has 15K and they all happy.Can somebody tell me why when I bring to pension fund 2K per year on end of the year I have bill :

All paid in 2000
Administration fee 500
Annual loss due with markets "jumps" 500
Your balance on end of the year is 1000

Well guys,can somebody tell me why I have pay 500 euros per year feeding guys who create me loss of 500 per year ?
You know what ? The bar of gold cost 360 buks in 2002 ,today it cost about 1900
Why should I share my money with guys in pension funds who waste them if I could buy bar of gold and throw it on attic lets say for another 20 years ?
I am not gonna feed anybody and I dont believe any pension funds !

And also guys,can somebody explain me why people got pennies on pensions or loss when markets are on top of the history sky height ?

You would have to ask your pension provider these questions, assuming your scenario is real. My pension is heavily invested in stocks. I don't check it much but it does seem to follow the markets. E.g. it dropped pretty heavily when the stock market took a nose dive back in March and it much higher now (even taking into account the additional contributions I have made since).

Who is your pension with and what is it invested in?

Klonker

Liamo57 wrote: »

Im 62, got a great redundancy last year. Have a pension and a lovely part time job and my health. A pension is so important, life is brilliant, and I get up each morning abd I can do what I want Paradise..... thats how important a pension is.

You're living the dream buddy.

Jim2007

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Who is your pension with and what is it invested in?

You are not going to hear that, the figures make no sense:

All paid in 2000
Administration fee 500
Annual loss due with markets "jumps" 500
Your balance on end of the year is 1000

No asset manager charges fees of 25%... and if this guy has been paying 2k pa into a fund how come it's only got a closing balance of 1k....

And as for this:

The bar of gold cost 360 buks in 2002 ,today it cost about 1900

The average return on an equity portfolio of that 18 year period was about 14% - 15%, so lets through of a few percent for fees, say it's 11%... so $360 would have grown to about $2,355.

Portfolios did go down, no doubt about it but they have recovered long ago...

Dodge

Liamo57 wrote: »

Im 62, got a great redundancy last year. Have a pension and a lovely part time job and my health. A pension is so important, life is brilliant, and I get up each morning abd I can do what I want Paradise..... thats how important a pension is.

Great to hear you're doing well.

This is pretty much the key idea here. No one with a pension thinks "I wish I didn't have one" and plenty of people without one think "I wish I had a decent pension"

Liamo57

I was just lucky it worked out the way it did. I count my blessings and know Im lucky. My pension is nothing to write home about but with the psrt time job I have ad much as I did when working. Its so lovely to have freedom, kids reared, a nice decent wife. Just to feck off into town for a coffee, go for a cycle along the canal.... all the simple things....maybe a few cans norw and then in the afternoon and not fee guilty. A colleague, same age, retired same time as me and he died 3 months ago.

Top chief

Hi I'm 29 soon and I want to open a private pension .
I'm not sure where to start or where to look.

I have 2 bank accounts with different banks as dont want all my money in one bank. I have a bit of money put away in a safe aswell for a rainy day

Wondering what is a good amount to put away into a private pension each month for a good return?

Also does it matter if I dont put any money In one month but put the following month .

Henry Ford III

Top chief wrote: »

Hi I'm 29 soon and I want to open a private pension .
I'm not sure where to start or where to look.

I have 2 bank accounts with different banks as dont want all my money in one bank. I have a bit of money put away in a safe aswell for a rainy day

Wondering what is a good amount to put away into a private pension each month for a good return?

Also does it matter if I dont put any money In one month but put the following month .

Get a proper assessment done on your finances. It'll include quite a lot of stuff including a financial income and expenditure statement, a pro forma balance sheet (assets and liabilities) and will suggest areas for action, if any.

From there if a pension makes sense you can get into risk and reward profiling, and look at costs etc.

I'd avoid the main Banks as they don't offer you access the entire market of providers.

You'll be paying for this either by way of a fee or commission. Your advisor is obliged to disclose you the amount.

anewme

Liamo57 wrote: »

Im 62, got a great redundancy last year. Have a pension and a lovely part time job and my health. A pension is so important, life is brilliant, and I get up each morning abd I can do what I want Paradise..... thats how important a pension is.

Fair play!

That would be my exact dream as well!

Enjoy.

Yellow_Fern

Top chief wrote: »

Hi I'm 29 soon and I want to open a private pension .
I'm not sure where to start or where to look.

I have 2 bank accounts with different banks as dont want all my money in one bank. I have a bit of money put away in a safe aswell for a rainy day

Wondering what is a good amount to put away into a private pension each month for a good return?

Also does it matter if I dont put any money In one month but put the following month .

There is a lot of flexibility on what you ask about, what you need to get hawkish about is fees. fees matter hugely for a 29 YO.

homes_for_all

Pensions are a scam. Stay well clear.

Does the following sound right to anyone? We've got a global pandemic, businesses crumbling, unprecedented amounts of people out of work, the governments of the West are printing money with no end in sight, whole industries are disappearing... and yet, the market is up!

I've heard a lot that "this is different" (lol) and that "demand is still there" (lol). But the fact is, the system is rotten and this house of cards has to come crashing down.

We all saw the old people who lost everything in 2008. The snake oil salesmen only want their fees. Your fund goes up, they take a piece. Fund goes down? That's your problem, I'll still be having my fees.

Take a look at the graph of the S&p 500. It doesn't look right. Keep well away from pensions and stocks. The people of the 1920s would like a word with you!

howamidifferent

homes_for_all wrote: »

Pensions are a scam. Stay well clear.

Username says it all. Pay for nothing and expect everything.

Padre_Pio

howamidifferent wrote: »

Username says it all. Pay for nothing and expect everything.

Post count too.

homes_for_all

howamidifferent wrote: »

Username says it all. Pay for nothing and expect everything.

The whole pension industry is a scam.

Let's examine it. At the bottom you have your average Joe. He's told to invest in the market to secure his old age.

1) The government encourage this so they can leave the oldies to the wolves in a few years. "No money for heating the house? Tough, you should have invested in a different fund!"

2) Employers love it as it costs them less. They include pension contributions are part of your package, but ask for the equivalent in pay now? Nope. Your package is lacking to say the least.

3) The market... So your average Joe is pumping money into big Pharma, funding wars and war industries, tobacco etc etc. and to top it off, big oil! Let's just destroy the planet and kill people!

4) The market again... it crashes every few years, to siphon off Joe's money. Of course the big boys don't worry.

5) The pension industry. Excessive fees, no accountability, and preying on people's financial illiteracy.

Save for your old age by all means through any number of avenues, but stay clear of the pension industry and the stock market.

GreeBo

homes_for_all wrote: »

The whole pension industry is a scam.

Let's examine it. At the bottom you have your average Joe. He's told to invest in the market to secure his old age.

1) The government encourage this so they can leave the oldies to the wolves in a few years. "No money for heating the house? Tough, you should have invested in a different fund!"

2) Employers love it as it costs them less. They include pension contributions are part of your package, but ask for the equivalent in pay now? Nope. Your package is lacking to say the least.

3) The market... So your average Joe is pumping money into big Pharma, funding wars and war industries, tobacco etc etc. and to top it off, big oil! Let's just destroy the planet and kill people!

4) The market again... it crashes every few years, to siphon off Joe's money. Of course the big boys don't worry.

5) The pension industry. Excessive fees, no accountability, and preying on people's financial illiteracy.

Save for your old age by all means through any number of avenues, but stay clear of the pension industry and the stock market.

If this happens to Joe, then Joe is an idiot who ignores the most basic advice about pensions.
i.e. Don't keep it in high risk areas when are are planning on accessing it anytime soon.

Care to elaborate on the "any number of means" when you exclude the stock market and a pension?

homes_for_all

GreeBo wrote: »

If this happens to Joe, then Joe is an idiot who ignores the most basic advice about pensions.
i.e. Don't keep it in high risk areas when are are planning on accessing it anytime soon.

Care to elaborate on the "any number of means" when you exclude the stock market and a pension?

High risk? Odds are that your average Joe will have a 30-50% exposure to the American market (as an example) in a standard fund that a company will default them to. Look at what I said, it's behaving completely irrationally. It's a fradulent system which cannot keep ignoring reality.

But you're now putting blame on Joe for not being financially up to date on the market! That's what the government want!

Gold, property, bonds, your own residence (i.e. no rent or mortgage) in old age.

The J Stands for Jay

homes_for_all wrote: »

We all saw the old people who lost everything in 2008.

Yes. Those were the old people who insisted they were smart and only held Irish Bank shares for their pension.

NIMAN

homes_for_all wrote: »

Pensions are a scam. Stay well clear.

Does the following sound right to anyone? We've got a global pandemic, businesses crumbling, unprecedented amounts of people out of work, the governments of the West are printing money with no end in sight, whole industries are disappearing... and yet, the market is up!

I've heard a lot that "this is different" (lol) and that "demand is still there" (lol). But the fact is, the system is rotten and this house of cards has to come crashing down.

We all saw the old people who lost everything in 2008. The snake oil salesmen only want their fees. Your fund goes up, they take a piece. Fund goes down? That's your problem, I'll still be having my fees.

Take a look at the graph of the S&p 500. It doesn't look right. Keep well away from pensions and stocks. The people of the 1920s would like a word with you!

The old people who lost everything in 2008 often had their money in bank shares, which became more or less worthless.

If they had their money in a pension scheme, it would have went down, but not vanished. You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

The J Stands for Jay

homes_for_all wrote: »

Gold, property, bonds,

What makes these markets any different to stock markets?

homes_for_all

McGaggs wrote: »

What makes these markets any different to stock markets?

Well for 1) the above don't contribute to wars, climate change or killing people and wrecking lives.

I think that's a good starting point

homes_for_all

NIMAN wrote: »

The old people who lost everything in 2008 often had their money in bank shares, which became more or less worthless.

If they had their money in a pension scheme, it would have went down, but not vanished. You haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Plenty of companies schemes wound up too.

thebourke

my question...say for example you get to retirement (i have 18 years to go yet!)

and you pension is worth 400k for example
you can get 25 percent tax free at retirement,which would work out at 100k

Can someone explain what would happen the other 300k?
How is it taxed?How do they work out yearly repayments?

AlmightyCushion

homes_for_all wrote: »

High risk? Odds are that your average Joe will have a 30-50% exposure to the American market (as an example) in a standard fund that a company will default them to. Look at what I said, it's behaving completely irrationally. It's a fradulent system which cannot keep ignoring reality.

But you're now putting blame on Joe for not being financially up to date on the market! That's what the government want!

Gold, property, bonds, your own residence (i.e. no rent or mortgage) in old age.

You can get all the benefits of a pension (tax incentives and company contributions) and still invest in gold and bonds. Property too if you count REITs. I wouldn't recommend it but you can do it if you want.

Amirani

homes_for_all wrote: »

Pensions are a scam. Stay well clear.

Does the following sound right to anyone? We've got a global pandemic, businesses crumbling, unprecedented amounts of people out of work, the governments of the West are printing money with no end in sight, whole industries are disappearing... and yet, the market is up!

I've heard a lot that "this is different" (lol) and that "demand is still there" (lol). But the fact is, the system is rotten and this house of cards has to come crashing down.

We all saw the old people who lost everything in 2008. The snake oil salesmen only want their fees. Your fund goes up, they take a piece. Fund goes down? That's your problem, I'll still be having my fees.

Take a look at the graph of the S&p 500. It doesn't look right. Keep well away from pensions and stocks. The people of the 1920s would like a word with you!

Just because you don't understand things doesn't make them a scam.

Amirani

thebourke wrote: »

=Can someone explain what would happen the other 300k?
How is it taxed?How do they work out yearly repayments?

You can either buy an annuity or set up an ARF.

Annuity will give you a set amount every year for the rest of your life, and there will be no fund left at the end.

ARF will mean you can draw down as much as you choose each year (though there is a minimum you need to). There's a tax-free portion, but then you'd pay 20% up to a cut-off. When you die, anything left in the fund can be inherited.

GreeBo

homes_for_all wrote: »

High risk? Odds are that your average Joe will have a 30-50% exposure to the American market (as an example) in a standard fund that a company will default them to. Look at what I said, it's behaving completely irrationally. It's a fradulent system which cannot keep ignoring reality.

But you're now putting blame on Joe for not being financially up to date on the market! That's what the government want!

Gold, property, bonds, your own residence (i.e. no rent or mortgage) in old age.

No, Joe doesnt need to be financially up to date, he just needs to follow the advice of any and every pension advisor.
It doesnt matter a damn if your pension is in stock and they plummet unless you are planning on retiring in the immediate future.

You cant have it both ways, either Joe is managing his own pension and does need to have the most basic of knowledge OR Joe is paying someone else to do it and they will do it for him.

Other than rants, do you actually know anything about pensions?

Geuze

thebourke wrote: »

my question...say for example you get to retirement (i have 18 years to go yet!)

and you pension is worth 400k for example
you can get 25 percent tax free at retirement,which would work out at 100k

Can someone explain what would happen the other 300k?
How is it taxed?How do they work out yearly repayments?

One option is to buy an annuity with the 300k, but that is no longer popular, due to low annuity rates.

Typically, the 300k is placed in an ARF, and you draw an income from the ARF.

The income is taxed as normal.