Why are people obsessed with getting a pension

GreeBo

Varta wrote: »

I get that you want a better income in retirement than the state provides , so do I and most other people. But you want other people to pay for your extra income in the form of a 'tax relief'. If you owe me €20 and I say "Greebo, just give me €10 and put the rest into your private pension", then I have just contributed €10 into your private pension. It is no different when the state does it. All tax relief is wrong. It is a scam used by politicians to win elections.

Except thats not whats happening at all.

Effectively the state is giving me €10 now and Im giving the state back €1.50 every year I draw down on my pension and then getting more again when I die.

How you can possibly think this is a scam that every government in the world is following is tin-foil hat to the extreme.

Varta

GreeBo wrote: »

Except thats not whats happening at all.

Effectively the state is giving me €10 now and Im giving the state back €1.50 every year I draw down on my pension and then getting more again when I die.

How you can possibly think this is a scam that every government in the world is following is tin-foil hat to the extreme.

Even if that were true, why should the state loan you money? The state could invest that money itself and use the funds generated to improve the wellbeing of all or even to reduce taxes. And if it is such a straight up business deal between you and the state why isn't there capital gains tax on the pension fund?

GreeBo

Varta wrote: »

Even if that were true, why should the state loan you money? The state could invest that money itself and use the funds generated to improve the wellbeing of all or even to reduce taxes. And if it is such a straight up business deal between you and the state why isn't there capital gains tax on the pension fund?

The state loans me money as its a win-win.
They make more money and they dont have me with my hand out.
This has all been covered already on this thread.

So you want me to pay CGT and Income Tax?
Tell you what, why don't you just negatively impact pensions out of existence and then everyone can just rely on "state expenses" when they are old?

Varta

GreeBo wrote: »

The state loans me money as its a win-win.
They make more money and they dont have me with my hand out.
This has all been covered already on this thread.

So you want me to pay CGT and Income Tax?
Tell you what, why don't you just negatively impact pensions out of existence and then everyone can just rely on "state expenses" when they are old?

What's unusual about paying CGT and income tax?

Tell you what, why don't you just pay for your private pension yourself and pay the taxes due?

Jim2007

Robert_Beach wrote: »

The fact is that lots and lots of pensioners lost big in them. What age are you? I ask because it was common to see and hear of this back then, but if you're too young then that's excusable.

Can you provide a reference for this piece of wisdom? And yes I'm old enough to remember what happened over the last thirty five years or so in the pension industry because providing performance and attribution tools was what I did for a living.

I'm also old enough to know that your 'lots and lots of pensioners' where people who spent more time listen to their mate down the pub and the talking heads than following the typical life style strategy recommend by advisors.

So if you want make such broad statements, then you need to back it up with hard research to be taken seriously.

GreeBo

Varta wrote: »

What's unusual about paying CGT and income tax?

Tell you what, why don't you just pay for your private pension yourself and pay the taxes due?

You pay CGT or income tax, you don't pay both on the same thing.

I do pay my taxes and I do pay for my private pension myself...Perhaps you aren't aware, but that's how pension schemes work in this country?
I see some googling in your future since you are currently terribly uninformed and just wasting everyone's time, to the ignore list with you!

PHG

Robert_Beach wrote: »

Arr yeah, our grandparents were told that Irish banks were safe and secure. Opps.

Financial "experts" are a funny breed. They collectively bring the world to the tipping point every few years, clap themselves on the back for avoiding disaster and walk off with their pockets stuffed.

Now if you'll wait here, I'm off to tell my parents that they better start watching Bloomberg news instead of RTE, subscribe to the financial times and get themselves up to speed on the wider machinations of the US Chinese trade war... if you don't, you'll be out on the streets in your old age and the government will admonish you for making stupid bets...

Thanks for not reading my post. Now back to my point, they are idiots for listening to Joe Bloggs then. Look at the major indices since the boom these funds tend to track. All in new highs and large gains from the low. The thing is you buy the highs and the lows and would be well up now since the bust.

Take responsibility! I really couldn't give a flying fiddlers if the average person doesn't take an interest, that is their issue and their responsibility, so in turn their own fault! Seriously, handing over €1000's a year to someone and not following up is just dumb. You do not need to know about trade wars or watch your pension every day. Literally log in once every 6 months, check performance, any issues send a mail or text to your FA. How hard is that???

I have 2 elderly parents who have a small idea about finance but not tech savvy but have the cop on to meet their accountant every 6 months! Age is not an excuse.

These financial experts lining their pockets. Sure didn't the ones in Lehmann do well losing their jobs in 2008. I genuinely believe you are either a troll or get your opinion from the rags or a mate in the local. Do you even know what caused the crisis?? What Financial Experts are you referring to? Don't name a bank, seriously what area of financial experts are you referring to that lined their pockets?

I used to date a woman in a high street bank and you would swear she was responsible for their investments losing money when she had nothing to do with it and come home crying as people believed she was one of those bankers!!

On a side note bloomberg is full of spin and not worth the watch unless a crises going on!

The J Stands for Jay

KyussB wrote: »

That line of discussion started, from it being pointed out that employer contributions to a pension provide more of a tax break to the company than paying wages - if that is true, I'm saying it should be treated the same as salaries.

It doesn't provide more of a tax break than salaries. It is the same as any other allowable expense from a corporation tax point of view.

Jim2007

PHG wrote: »

Take responsibility! I really couldn't give a flying fiddlers if the average person doesn't take an interest, that is their issue and their responsibility, so in turn their own fault!

Unfortunately this is not the case, if we don’t ensure that everyone adequately saves for retirement then those that do will end up having to share their pot with everyone else in one way or another - taxation, levies, reduced services and benefits etc... it’s not just a personal issue, it’s a social issue as well.

GreeBo

Jim2007 wrote: »

Unfortunately this is not the case, if we don’t ensure that everyone adequately saves for retirement then those that do will end up having to share their pot with everyone else in one way or another - taxation, levies, reduced services and benefits etc... it’s not just a personal issue, it’s a social issue as well.

Which is whole point of the opt-out approach...

Jim2007

GreeBo wrote: »

Which is whole point of the opt-out approach...

What opt-out approach??? The one where voters won't vote for politicians that will up taxes on person receiving private pension income, add levies etc... when the times get tough and these voters find themselves short, you mean that opt-out?

You are sadly mistaken if you think the "have nots" will sit back and let you enjoy your pension when they can vote for someone that promises to improve their situation.

S.M.B.

Opt out = post auto enrollment,
Opt in = pre auto enrollment?

GreeBo

Jim2007 wrote: »

What opt-out approach??? The one where voters won't vote for politicians that will up taxes on person receiving private pension income, add levies etc... when the times get tough and these voters find themselves short, you mean that opt-out?

You are sadly mistaken if you think the "have nots" will sit back and let you enjoy your pension when they can vote for someone that promises to improve their situation.

The that that is being introduced in Ireland and has been talked about several times on this thread

How is this new person going to improve the situation of the "have nots" and impact me?
I'm already subsidising these "have nots" to the tune of over 50% of my salary every month and I'll continue to do that until the day I die.

"But how will you keep doing this after you stop working?" I hear you cry
Why out of my private pension I reply.


BTW, its much, much easier to pay some of your income tax free into your pension...if you are declaring all of your income

Varta

GreeBo wrote: »

The that that is being introduced in Ireland and has been talked about several times on this thread

How is this new person going to improve the situation of the "have nots" and impact me?
I'm already subsidising these "have nots" to the tune of over 50% of my salary every month and I'll continue to do that until the day I die.

"But how will you keep doing this after you stop working?" I hear you cry
Why out of my private pension I reply.


BTW, its much, much easier to pay some of your income tax free into your pension...if you are declaring all of your income

I'm out.

christy G

I plan on retiring at 55 im 30 . My job requires 30 years service but what if i retire before that .

Squozen

christy G wrote: »

I plan on retiring at 55 im 30 . My job requires 30 years service but what if i retire before that .

Speak to a financial advisor. I’m planning to retire at 60 and live off savings until I start drawing from my pensions at 65. It gets tougher the earlier you retire of course.

What do you mean by ‘requires’?

AndrewJRenko

christy G wrote: »

I plan on retiring at 55 im 30 . My job requires 30 years service but what if i retire before that .

It depends on the Rules of your own pension scheme. Most schemes will allow an early retirement with a significant reduction in pension level.

garbanzo

I’m 52 now and have been a member of various pension schemes for the last 25 years. It is only in recent years that I have started to appreciate how lucky I am to be in this position. The “compounding interest factor” is really kicking in now.

Yes, it has been a bit of a struggle financially to keep making the monthly payments. Yes, I lost a considerable amount of money when a defined benefit (DB) scheme I was a member of wound up. Yes, Minister Noonan’s raid on my fund was a pain in the ass. BUT, overall it is 100% the right thing to do in terms of financial planning.

My plan, all going well, is to knock work on the head in around 8 years time. I could not even think about this if I hadn’t a pension fund.

That’s been my experience and I accept this is not for everyone. I have friends who have nothing or very little set aside for retirement. I’d seriously hate to be in that position now.

Jim2007

garbanzo wrote: »

Yes, it has been a bit of a struggle financially to keep making the monthly payments. Yes, I lost a considerable amount of money when a defined benefit (DB) scheme I was a member of wound up. Yes, Minister Noonan’s raid on my fund was a pain in the ass. BUT, overall it is 100% the right thing to do in terms of financial planning.

Your experience is the norm... we expect that there will be many bumps along the way, but actual research as opposed to opinions tells us that in almost all cases the outcome will be positive.

The problem is that some people seem to think that a pension should come with absolute certainty in a pension and if that is not possible then it's too risky... the funny thing is that the same people have no problem at all in borrowing a huge some of money, invested in very high risk asset class, fail to diversify and consider it a risk-less investment.

high_king

garbanzo wrote: »

I’m 52 now and have been a member of various pension schemes for the last 25 years. It is only in recent years that I have started to appreciate how lucky I am to be in this position. The “compounding interest factor” is really kicking in now.

Yes, it has been a bit of a struggle financially to keep making the monthly payments. Yes, I lost a considerable amount of money when a defined benefit (DB) scheme I was a member of wound up. Yes, Minister Noonan’s raid on my fund was a pain in the ass. BUT, overall it is 100% the right thing to do in terms of financial planning.

My plan, all going well, is to knock work on the head in around 8 years time. I could not even think about this if I hadn’t a pension fund.

That’s been my experience and I accept this is not for everyone. I have friends who have nothing or very little set aside for retirement. I’d seriously hate to be in that position now.

If you've included the contrib state pension in your figures . . you're in for a surprise in a few years.

Squall Leonhart

high_king wrote: »

If you've included the contrib state pension in your figures . . you're in for a surprise in a few years.

Would you ever go away and give up you doom merchant!

Ignorant rhetoric and scaremongering

high_king

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

Would you ever go away and give up you doom merchant!

Ignorant rhetoric and scaremongering

Rubbish, facts are not doom. The whole point of the government intitivate is the contrib state pension is no longer financially viable for the sate and has to be phased out bit by bit and replaced with one that working people pay far more towards. Do you really think the long term goal of the initiative is about giving you an extra state pension of top of the existing one ? . . lol

Squall Leonhart

high_king wrote: »

Rubbish, facts are not doom.

It's not fact though. It's speculation.
A man in his 50s, who you replied to, has his house in order, pension in place, feels he might be able to retire almost a decade before state pension kicks in and you are goading him with your nonsense.


And obviously the reason the government are spearheading this campaign is to reduce their costs and pass some of the responsibility to the individual, but it not likely to disappear completely.

high_king

Squall Leonhart wrote: »

It's not fact though.

It's an absolute fact that the state pension is no longer financially viable for the sate and has to be replaced.

Do you really think the goal of this initiative is about giving you an extra state pension of top of the existing one ? lol

KyussB

If the state pension is wound down it will be for political reasons not economic ones, as the state has zero problems structuring it financially, to be perfectly viable.

Sierra Oscar

KyussB wrote: »

If the state pension is wound down it will be for political reasons not economic ones, as the state has zero problems structuring it financially, to be perfectly viable.

If the State pension was wound down then there would be a revolution. Any Government will keep the show on the road.

high_king

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

If the State pension was wound down then there would be a revolution. Any Government will keep the show on the road.

Not if they doing stealth step by step. If you are waiting on any "revolution", given what went on during the financial crisis, you'll be waiting a long time.

AndrewJRenko

high_king wrote: »

Not if they doing stealth step by step. If you are waiting on any "revolution", given what went on during the financial crisis, you'll be waiting a long time.

You don't remember what happened when they tried to restrict medical cards for older people at the peak of the financial crisis?


https://www.independent.ie/business/budget/news/remember-this-budget-blunder-a-nod-to-this-years-grey-vote-provoke-pensioners-at-your-peril-35120722.html

high_king

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You don't remember what happened when they tried to restrict medical cards for older people at the peak of the financial crisis?

https://www.independent.ie/business/budget/news/remember-this-budget-blunder-a-nod-to-this-years-grey-vote-provoke-pensioners-at-your-peril-35120722.html

That's a different generation, they had actual balls . . besides ageism is in now, the youth are being told to blame the old for all their woes.

garbanzo

high_king wrote: »

If you've included the contrib state pension in your figures . . you're in for a surprise in a few years.

Nope, I haven’t initially planned with that in mind. The contrib state pension, in whatever form it will be then, won’t kick in until I (hopefully) get to 68. A mixture of living off savings and staged drawdown of pensions is the plan. Perhaps a small bit of part time work if necessary but the plan is to get off the treadmill around the 60 mark.

I couldn’t get anywhere near that goal if I hadn’t started paying into a pension when I did. One of the few good decisions 28 year old me made at the time.😁😁😁