Landlord evicted us to use apartment for own use and now advertises it on Airbnb

1874

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I agree

I think this case is different as this isn't his 2nd home in Ireland. This will be his primary residence in Ireland. This will be his Irish base. The new Airbnb regulations restrict the lettings so much that I don't see it being a runner to claim that he changed his business from long term lettings to short term lettings. If he isn't an owner occupier then he cant rent airbnb without planning permission. If he is owner occupier he's limited to 90 days per year.

Thats what I thought too, but that does not seem to be the case.
An owner occupier can rent out rooms under STL for 90days (when not present) such as airbnb and on an ongoing basis letting a room (all year long).



is unlimited, but has to register. https://www.thejournal.ie/explainer-new-airbnb-laws-4304640-Oct2018/
I wouldnt normally quote the journal, but this was quoted to me in another post, so with the excerpts it seems, its allowed to let out for a short term let for 90 days, as in when you are not present.



Mary lives in the two-bedroom house in Cork that she owns near the sea. She wants to let a room occasionally on Airbnb, especially during the summer months. Can she?

Yes, she can let out her room year round, or the entire house for up to 90 days. She has to register with the council for her proposed short-term letting, as well and indicating which days (up to a total of 90) she intends to let out the whole house.

AND if you are the principal occupant, you can do so on an ongoing basis
Mike and John own a four-bedroom house which is their principal private residence (PPR). They let one of the rooms to a long-term tenant and the other room they keep on short-term letting websites. They find they have it rented for about 120 days a year. Can they continue?

Yes. If the house is their PPR, they can rent out the rooms on short-term let all year long, using the existing B&B exemptions. They need to register this with the council.

Steer55 wrote: »

Please also note alot of people let out room/rooms on Airbnb and also live in the place themselves. They won't be affected by the new rules coming into force in June.

it seems so

Banmroi

1874 wrote: »

Thats what I thought too, but that does not seem to be the case.
An owner occupier can rent out rooms under STL for 90days (when not present) such as airbnb and on an ongoing basis letting a room (all year long).



is unlimited, but has to register.
I wouldnt normally quote the journal, but this was quoted to me in another post, so with the excerpts it seems, its allowed to let out for a short term let for 90 days, as in when you are not present.



Mary lives in the two-bedroom house in Cork that she owns near the sea. She wants to let a room occasionally on Airbnb, especially during the summer months. Can she?

Yes, she can let out her room year round, or the entire house for up to 90 days. She has to register with the council for her proposed short-term letting, as well and indicating which days (up to a total of 90) she intends to let out the whole house.

AND if you are the principal occupant, you can do so on an ongoing basis
Mike and John own a four-bedroom house which is their principal private residence (PPR). They let one of the rooms to a long-term tenant and the other room they keep on short-term letting websites. They find they have it rented for about 120 days a year. Can they continue?

Yes. If the house is their PPR, they can rent out the rooms on short-term let all year long, using the existing B&B exemptions. They need to register this with the council.

it seems so

A Part 4 tenancy cannot be terminated for short term lets. If the LL wants to change the use to short term lets they must use Section 34(6). This would most likely be refused anyway by the local authority due to the rental crisis.

The LL in this case could have issued notice for moving in himself and left it at that. As long as it is not available to rent again he has done nothing wrong. Renting again on air b&b is not what S34(4) is for.

Sleeper12

1874 wrote: »

Thats what I thought too, but that does not seem to be the case.
An owner occupier can rent out rooms under STL for 90days (when not present) such as airbnb and on an ongoing basis letting a room (all year long).



is unlimited, but has to register. https://www.thejournal.ie/explainer-new-airbnb-laws-4304640-Oct2018/
I wouldnt normally quote the journal, but this was quoted to me in another post, so with the excerpts it seems, its allowed to let out for a short term let for 90 days, as in when you are not present.



Mary lives in the two-bedroom house in Cork that she owns near the sea. She wants to let a room occasionally on Airbnb, especially during the summer months. Can she?

Yes, she can let out her room year round, or the entire house for up to 90 days. She has to register with the council for her proposed short-term letting, as well and indicating which days (up to a total of 90) she intends to let out the whole house.

AND if you are the principal occupant, you can do so on an ongoing basis
Mike and John own a four-bedroom house which is their principal private residence (PPR). They let one of the rooms to a long-term tenant and the other room they keep on short-term letting websites. They find they have it rented for about 120 days a year. Can they continue?

Yes. If the house is their PPR, they can rent out the rooms on short-term let all year long, using the existing B&B exemptions. They need to register this with the council.

it seems so

I was aware of that. Point is if the LL isn't resident in the house he can't do anything without planning permission. As far as I know no one has gotten planning for Airbnb in an apartment block. Therefore if the LL rents via Airbnb after June then he must be resident. If he's not resident & has to stop Airbnb in 3 months then OP hasn't a leg to stand on in a complaint. As far as I can see LL can't be resident of USA for tax purposes & claim to be resident here for Airbnb rules.

1982

Dav010 wrote: »

Is that relevant to the issue? Tax compliance is a matter between Revenue and the owner.

Just thinking if he raises the issue it could come back to bite him.

Banmroi

1982 wrote: »

Just thinking if he raises the issue it could come back to bite him.

RTB don't get involved in revenue issues though

1874

Banmroi wrote: »

A Part 4 tenancy cannot be terminated for short term lets. If the LL wants to change the use to short term lets they must use Section 34(6). This would most likely be refused anyway by the local authority due to the rental crisis.

The LL in this case could have issued notice for moving in himself and left it at that. As long as it is not available to rent again he has done nothing wrong. Renting again on air b&b is not what S34(4) is for.

The termination was stated by the OP for the owner to occupy their own property though? not for short term lets, an owner can let out rooms under rent a room scheme or on an ongoing basis via airbnb, or they can even as an owner occupier let out for up to 90 days if they are not present, in both cases it seems they must register, the OP wasnt terminated so the landlord could carry out STL but so they could occupy their home themselves. They may not be there all the time but that doesnt mean its not their primary residence and as such they can do as they please and its good for security to have someone around when you aren't. Ive let rooms on the rent a room scheme and would be away for various reasons, and it was good to know my home was occupied and secure when I wasnt about.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I was aware of that. Point is if the LL isn't resident in the house he can't do anything without planning permission. As far as I know no one has gotten planning for Airbnb in an apartment block. Therefore if the LL rents via Airbnb after June then he must be resident. If he's not resident & has to stop Airbnb in 3 months then OP hasn't a leg to stand on in a complaint. As far as I can see LL can't be resident of USA for tax purposes & claim to be resident here for Airbnb rules.

I think the OP likely doesnt have all the details, the person may be based somewhere else but their residence could be here for all purposes, the OP or anyone here does not know.

1982 wrote: »

Just thinking if he raises the issue it could come back to bite him.

Come back to bite the OP or the Owner? possibly either or both, if the OP was paying rent and the person was abroad for work and tax purposes then the OP might be biting their nose off to spite their face, may end up with a tax bill for the missing 20%, but its clear the OP knows or knew the owner was abroad, essentially that could be view poorly by revenue as them pocketing that. Im not sure if the OP said how many years they were renting?, thats assuming the person was working and taxed abroad. It seems the owners circumstances have changed, but they may have been tax resident here all along and just been on an assignment, I doubt the OP knows all the details.

Banmroi

1874 wrote: »

The termination was stated by the OP for the owner to occupy their own property though? not for short term lets, an owner can let out rooms under rent a room scheme or on an ongoing basis via airbnb, or they can even as an owner occupier let out for up to 90 days if they are not present, in both cases it seems they must register, the OP wasnt terminated so the landlord could carry out STL but so they could occupy their home themselves. They may not be there all the time but that doesnt mean its not their primary residence and as such they can do as they please and its good for security to have someone around when you aren't. Ive let rooms on the rent a room scheme and would be away for various reasons, and it was good to know my home was occupied and secure when I wasnt about.

But did you end of Part4 tenancy to do it?

Graham

tretorn wrote: »

Why cant you do this, its your property so why not have it for your use when you travel back. The landlord could have children and grandchildren here and wants his house so he has somewhere to entertain his fsmily.

Because somewhere to entertain the grandchildren is not one of the grounds for termination under the residential tenancies act. The specific ground the OPs landlord appears to be relying upon is "The landlord requires the dwelling or the property containing the dwelling for his or her own occupation".

When you rent out a house, you forego some of your rights as a property owner in return for money.

1874

Banmroi wrote: »

But did you end of Part4 tenancy to do it?

I wasnt in a part 4 situation, I was letting rooms all along, it was and still is allowed for an ownerto do that, people were coming and going, but it was my primary (only) residence.
The OP stated that the owner availed of their section 34 rights to take occupation of their property, carried out some renovations and then decided to let rooms as they are allowed.
Are you saying an owner occupier cant let rooms in their house? or is subject to any law which says they cant in any form?

Banmroi

1874 wrote: »

I wasnt in a part 4 situation, I was letting rooms all along, it was and still is allowed for an ownerto do that, people were coming and going, but it was my primary (only) residence.
The OP stated that the owner availed of their section 34 rights to take occupation of their property, carried out some renovations and then decided to let rooms as they are allowed.
Are you saying an owner occupier cant let rooms in their house? or is subject to any law which says they cant in any form?

Rent a room etc is fine and there is law for that

Section 34 of the RTA does not allow for termination to set up short term lets.

part 4 tenancy has rights associated with it and Section 34(4) is occupation by LL or family member, not for LL occasionally and short term lets

BTW after 6 months he could do what he wanted if he bothered waiting

1874

Banmroi wrote: »

Rent a room etc is fine and there is law for that

Section 34 of the RTA does not allow for termination to set up short term lets.

part 4 tenancy has rights associated with it and Section 34(4) is occupation by LL or family member, not for LL occasionally and short term lets

BTW after 6 months he could do what he wanted if he bothered waiting

Yes, but the OP specified the owner was taking it for their own use, what the owner does after they occupy it themselves is really none of well anyones business if they are using it as their primary residence, then they are entitled to let it for rent a room or short term lets.

Graham

Hence the debate, does the occasional visit and a bunch of short-term-lettings qualify as "his or her own occupation"?

Banmroi

1874 wrote: »

Yes, but the OP specified the owner was taking it for their own use, what the owner does after they occupy it themselves is really none of well anyones business if they are using it as their primary residence, then they are entitled to let it for rent a room or short term lets.

But it all comes back to the legislation for termination of tenancy under the RTA.

The law would indicate that it is the tenants business if there is a beach of S34(4). A LL vacating the property within 6months and not offering it back is a breach. Short term lets mean that the LL has vacated.

Section 34 is the only way to terminate a Part4 and S34 is exceptional circumstances. Short term lets is an abuse of the security of tenure aspect of a part 4.

Anyway, i'm not the RTB, only one way to get clarity on it

L1011

Graham wrote: »

Hence the debate, does the occasional visit and a bunch of short-term-lettings qualify as "his or her own occupation"?

Revenue will become very interested if someone is attempting to redefine what their PPR is - CGT wise.

Wheres Me Jumper?

i do hope that tenants realise if/when they nitpick like this, they are driving LLs out of the market and ultimately hurting themselves.
next time they have to join a queue of 20 people for a 1 bed flat, they really should ask themselves "have i contributed to this mess?"

Graham

Like it or not, tenants have rights under the RTA. Landlords are generally aware of this when they start accepting rent.

You could just as easily argue that the landlords trying to skirt around the RTA or planning legislation have contributed to the mess making the situation worse for landlords and tenants alike.

Dav010

L1011 wrote: »

Revenue will become very interested if someone is attempting to redefine what their PPR is - CGT wise.

Wow, now the owner along with invalid termination, illegal letting on Airbnb, dodging tax on rental income, is trying to shaft the Taxpayer on CGT. These threads are like Chinese whispers, what’s next?

handlemaster

usernamegoes wrote: »

AmberGold wrote: »

I’d put it behind me and move on, is it worth the hassle..

If they get compensation then it might be yeah.

Compo culture ireland

Wheres Me Jumper?

handlemaster wrote: »

Compo culture ireland

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Nope.
Really crap advice.


Nail them if possible.

and then they'll wonder why it's so difficult to get a place.
Duh?

Graham

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

and then they'll wonder why it's so difficult to get a place

oh oh, I know this one..

Is it because thousands of residential properties have been converted into mini-hotels?

Dravokivich

Askthe EA wrote: »

No, it hasn't though.

Advertising it on Airbnb makes the property available for other people's use. The landlords reason was rather weak.

Garibaldi?

It's bad advice to tell them to sue. On the RTB website they list all the dispute cases -names and addresses and all details. What landlord would take on a tenant who had sued in the past?Asking for trouble! And landlords are checking that site.

Edgware

theneilmobile wrote: »

So last October we got an eviction notice from our landlord, who is based in the US, stating that he wanted to use the apartment for himself and his wife for the periods of time when they returned home to Ireland.

He gave us the correct amount of notice and although we suspected that he was just going to use the place for Airbnb we were respectful and went looking for new accommodation without causing too much fuss.

Luckily for us we managed to get another apartment for slightly under the rent we were paying, although it was a little more out of town and not as nice as where we were. This was a bit of a fluke since everything else we looked at was on average 300 more a month that what we were paying.

4 months have passed since we moved and our old apartment has been renovated and is on booking.com and Airbnb. We don't think that our eviction was legal (maybe we are wrong?) and we would like to report the landlord. We don't want to force a way to move back in, or want compensation.

Looking at the RTB site the options are for mediation or adjudication. However it seems to be that these are for resolving a dispute, but I don't need to mediate anything, I just want to report that what he has done is illegal and for the relevant authority to take appropriate action

Any advice?

Situations change. You cant prove whether he was genuine or not. Move on

Garibaldi?

Landlords were not so fussy in the past about checking people out. Happy enough once they were reasonable people and good for the rent. Its forensic nowadays because they're afraid they will be taken advantage of. And there is a black list(discreet ) , not just the RTB disputes record

usernamegoes

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Landlords were not so fussy in the past about checking people out. Happy enough once they were reasonable people and good for the rent. Its forensic nowadays because they're afraid they will be taken advantage of. And there is a black list(discreet ) , not just the RTB disputes record

An illegal list! People wonder why people want amateur landlords gone

usernamegoes

handlemaster wrote: »

Compo culture ireland

It's terrible having to compensate someone for causing them loss. Presumably you don't keep deposits if tenants damage our property beyond normal wear and tear. That would be compo culture presumably.

Dav010

usernamegoes wrote: »

An illegal list! People wonder why people want amateur landlords gone

Illegal?

Graham

and unlikely.

I call BS on this one.

usernamegoes

Dav010 wrote: »

Illegal?

Correct me if I am wrong, but do the various landlords contributing to the list have data sharing agreements in place, have they done a DPIA on the risks to the fundamental rights and freedoms of the data subjects, have they provided notice to the data subjects, how long is the data kept, what are the technical and organisational measures in place to protect the data, what is the lawful basis/bases for processing the data, to name a few reasons.

You can't just go making lists about people that have such serious consequences without complying with law.

I'd be confident that the Data Protection Commission would regard any such list as disproportionate use of personal data.

Garibaldi?

The reality is that estate agents tip landlords of in a nod and a wink sort of manner because people dont want to draw hassle down on their own heads if things go belly-up. Not a documented list ! An "I heard it on the grapevine" one. And pretty accurate by all accounts.