Landlord evicted us to use apartment for own use and now advertises it on Airbnb

theneilmobile

So last October we got an eviction notice from our landlord, who is based in the US, stating that he wanted to use the apartment for himself and his wife for the periods of time when they returned home to Ireland.

He gave us the correct amount of notice and although we suspected that he was just going to use the place for Airbnb we were respectful and went looking for new accommodation without causing too much fuss.

Luckily for us we managed to get another apartment for slightly under the rent we were paying, although it was a little more out of town and not as nice as where we were. This was a bit of a fluke since everything else we looked at was on average 300 more a month that what we were paying.

4 months have passed since we moved and our old apartment has been renovated and is on booking.com and Airbnb. We don't think that our eviction was legal (maybe we are wrong?) and we would like to report the landlord. We don't want to force a way to move back in, or want compensation.

Looking at the RTB site the options are for mediation or adjudication. However it seems to be that these are for resolving a dispute, but I don't need to mediate anything, I just want to report that what he has done is illegal and for the relevant authority to take appropriate action

Any advice?

Samuel T. Cogley

The relevant authority only adjudicates on disputes. To deal with this properly you should raise a case with the RTB and follow it through.

The issue maybe though that is he using it for periods of time and AirBnBing it the rest of the time.

AmberGold

I’d put it behind me and move on, is it worth the hassle..

usernamegoes

AmberGold wrote: »

I’d put it behind me and move on, is it worth the hassle..

If they get compensation then it might be yeah.

Sleeper12

I can't see what the problem is tbh.

Perhaps he doesn't take bookings for when he's in Dublin. This would mean that he told you the truth. He hasn't rented it to new tenants. Short lettings gives him an income and he gets to stay in his own apartment when he's home

JJJackal

Plus you say he renovated it? And you moved into cheaper apartment. Plus he only wants it part time- he could say he is there on unoccupied nights.

LL has no case to answer in my opinion; plus you have minimal financial loss (so would u get much compensation even if eviction illegal?)

pwurple

Not sure what you are reporting him for?

If he is using it for himself, and doing air bnb for the rest of the time, that's within the regulations.

Always Tired

open a dispute on RTB website, i was illegally evicted and deposit taken too. after this was proven in the hearing I got a 4 figure payout. the LL was that thick he appealed the original ruling to try and drag it out more and after the appeal they actually doubled the award, which he paid.

it's not much hassle, open the dispute online, get your paperwork together, go to the hearing and state yr case. this is a big issue currently and they will take it seriously.

JJJackal

Always Tired wrote: »

open a dispute on RTB website, i was illegally evicted and deposit taken too. after this was proven in the hearing I got a 4 figure payout. the LL was that thick he appealed the original ruling to try and drag it out more and after the appeal they actually doubled the award, which he paid.

it's not much hassle, open the dispute online, get your paperwork together, go to the hearing and state yr case. this is a big issue currently and they will take it seriously.

What’s the issue to report though?

Always Tired

pwurple wrote: »

Not sure what you are reporting him for?

If he is using it for himself, and doing air bnb for the rest of the time, that's within the regulations.

no, it isn't. if you are living there you wouldn't be air bnb hosting for long stretches. on air bnb you can see what dates are available, if it's available large chunks of dates then he's not using it as his primary residence obviously.

the stipulation of moving in for yr own use is if the landlord needs to live there again, not live somewhere else and airbnb it.

Always Tired

JJJackal wrote: »

What’s the issue to report though?

explained above. simple really.

JJJackal

Always Tired wrote: »

no, it isn't. if you are living there you wouldn't be air bnb hosting in February. on air bnb you can see what dates are available, if it's available large chunks of dates then he's not using it as his primary residence obviously.

the stipulation of moving in for yr own use is if the landlord needs to live there again, not live somewhere else and airbnb it.

The LL can also evict for substantial repair or renovations - which the OP said was done

Marcusm

theneilmobile wrote: »

So last October we got an eviction notice from our landlord, who is based in the US, stating that he wanted to use the apartment for himself and his wife for the periods of time when they returned home to Ireland.

He gave us the correct amount of notice and although we suspected that he was just going to use the place for Airbnb we were respectful and went looking for new accommodation without causing too much fuss.

Luckily for us we managed to get another apartment for slightly under the rent we were paying, although it was a little more out of town and not as nice as where we were. This was a bit of a fluke since everything else we looked at was on average 300 more a month that what we were paying.

4 months have passed since we moved and our old apartment has been renovated and is on booking.com and Airbnb. We don't think that our eviction was legal (maybe we are wrong?) and we would like to report the landlord. We don't want to force a way to move back in, or want compensation.

Looking at the RTB site the options are for mediation or adjudication. However it seems to be that these are for resolving a dispute, but I don't need to mediate anything, I just want to report that what he has done is illegal and for the relevant authority to take appropriate action

Any advice?

Given that you are paying a lower rent, it might be hard to justify compensation.

JJJackal

Always Tired wrote: »

explained above. simple really.

I suppose its impossible to know how often the LL occupies it. Maybe the OP can check on air bnb and let us know 🙂

Sleeper12

Always Tired wrote:

open a dispute on RTB website, i was illegally evicted and deposit taken too. after this was proven in the hearing I got a 4 figure payout. the LL was that thick he appealed the original ruling to try and drag it out more and after the appeal they actually doubled the award, which he paid.

Always Tired wrote:

it's not much hassle, open the dispute online, get your paperwork together, go to the hearing and state yr case. this is a big issue currently and they will take it seriously.

You had a genuine complaint though.

LL in this case did nothing wrong. Renovated the apartment because he wanted to stay in it when visiting Dublin. He's entitled to put it on Airbnb when he is not staying there. He couldn't stay there when op was there but he can stay & use Airbnb. He's limited to the amount of days he can use Airbnb now too.

OP would have a case if there were little or no renovations done & he rented it out to tenants again. None of this happened though

Always Tired

JJJackal wrote: »

The LL can also evict for substantial repair or renovations - which the OP said was done

if the eviction notice doesn't state that as the reason then it's irrevelant. an eviction notice has to state the reason and that has to be the truth.

unfortunately, most LLs, like yourself, don't understand the proper procedures. they think they can do what they like and say whatever.

all OP has to do is take some screenshots of the ad showing the place offered on air bnb for large chunks of dates, and bring the eviction notice saying the reason for eviction is LL wanted the flat back to use as his residence.

it doesn't matter one bit if he renovated it in between if that wasn't the reason stated on the eviction notice.

and to your other post about whether there would be much compensation - depends on whether you consider between 1-2k to be much.

ive been down this road with 2 LLs, i know the rules. you don't seem to be informed about them properly.

Sir Oxman

AmberGold wrote: »

I’d put it behind me and move on, is it worth the hassle..

Nope.
Really crap advice.


Nail them if possible.

JJJackal

Always Tired wrote: »

if the eviction notice doesn't state that as the reason then it's irrevelant. an eviction notice has to state the reason and that has to be the truth.

unfortunately, most LLs, like yourself, don't understand the proper procedures. they think they can do what they like and say whatever.

all OP has to do is take some screenshots of the ad showing the place offered on air bnb for large chunks of dates, and bring the eviction notice saying the reason for eviction is LL wanted the flat back to use as his residence.

it doesn't matter one bit if he renovated it in between if that wasn't the reason stated on the eviction notice.

and to your other post about whether there would be much compensation - depends on whether you consider between 1-2k to be much.

ive been down this road with 2 LLs, i know the rules. you don't seem to be informed about them properly.

The LL decides that in possession of the property it needed substantial renovation. This may not have been clear until he occupied the property. This is a legitimate reason for eviction. If the circumstances change at the time of eviction eg change from sell to owner occupy does this matter? I do not know. The eviction notice has to be true to the best knowledge of the LL at the time it was executed.

The LL occupies the property when home. The LL puts it on air bnb during the other periods. Even if at the moment he occupies it for 1 week in 4, I don’t see how this is illegal eviction irrespective of renovations.

Were your dealings with the RTB identical?

Sleeper12

Always Tired wrote:

unfortunately, most LLs, like yourself, don't understand the proper procedures. they think they can do what they like and say whatever.

Always Tired wrote:

all OP has to do is take some screenshots of the ad showing the place offered on air bnb for large chunks of dates, and bring the eviction notice saying the reason for eviction is LL wanted the flat back to use as his residence.

Have you actually read the thread?

What exactly do you think LL is doing wrong?

He is doing exactly what he told the tenant he'd be doing

LL didn't say that they were moving home to live in the apartment. LL said they want to use the apartment when they are visiting Ireland. This is what they are doing. Renting it out as Airbnb on weekends that they aren't in Dublin isn't breaking any rules or laws. LL has taken back possession of the property. He now has the exact same rights you & I have in our own homes. He is no longer governed by LL /tenant legislation. It's now a private dwelling again. He is entitled to advertise it on Airbnb in the same way you or I can do with our own homes

Bigmac1euro

Worth reporting what you’ve observed. You very easily could have been shafted with double the rent you are paying now.

The LL should be following the rules and processes if the LL did in fact break the rules that is.
It’s insulting to other LL’s if he did break the rules because everyone knows how hard it is being a LL these days

Wheres Me Jumper?

this thread is yet another example of why i as a LL never rent to Irish people.

davindub

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Have you actually read the thread?

What exactly do you think LL is doing wrong?

He is doing exactly what he told the tenant he'd be doing

LL didn't say that they were moving home to live in the apartment. LL said they want to use the apartment when they are visiting Ireland. This is what they are doing. Renting it out as Airbnb on weekends that they aren't in Dublin isn't breaking any rules or laws. LL has taken back possession of the property. He now has the exact same rights you & I have in our own homes. He is no longer governed by LL /tenant legislation. It's now a private dwelling again. He is entitled to advertise it on Airbnb in the same way you or I can do with our own homes

I don't think use as holiday accommodation is what the RTA intended when they used the word "occupation". On that basis alone, even for their own use, the notice appears invalid.

OP you would be better getting professional advice if you need it, or just open a dispute & let the RTB adjudicate or mediate the case.

Always Tired

davindub wrote: »

I don't think use as holiday accommodation is what the RTA intended when they used the word "occupation". On that basis alone, even for their own use, the notice appears invalid.

this is exactly right and saying 'oh once i took possession I realized it needed renovation' simply won't fly. j jackal is grasping at straws here with that. once the notice is seen to be invalid, case will be cut and dry. and if it's up on air bnb for large stretches it's obviously not his primary residence.

more like, 'Once I took possession I realized I could make a hefty bit more cash with air bnb, especially if I fixed it up a bit, which I didn't bother to do before because I was 'only' getting market rate'

there's no point arguing with anyone who doesn't realize how vitally important a valid notice is. it is literally what the whole case will hinge on. the renovating bit wasn't on the notice so it doesn't even come into it and can't be used as the reason for eviction whatsoever. if the LL tries to backtrack and say that was the reason he'll just dig an even bigger hole because it will be obvious he's trying to use a different reason than on the notice.

Always Tired

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

this thread is yet another example of why i as a LL never rent to Irish people.

because you don't want to follow the regulations and Irish people are more likely to know them and insist they be followed, so that their lives are not upended to foster bigger profits for landlords? well good for you i guess. but to me that's like saying, 'I much prefer to rob the elderly, they're less likely to fight back.'

anyway who cares what you do with your properties, it's irrevelant here.

The_Conductor

OP- what do you want out of the situation?
An offer to move back into the apartment again?
A case for compensation against the ex-landlord?
What is your end aim here?
Everyone here is gungho advising you to 'nail' the landlord and try to get compensation from him.
You might, or might not succeed- but ultimately the biggest sanction that could be applied is that the landlord would be forced to put the property back on the rental market- and give you first refusal- if this is what you want?

Its not clearcut- and there are new restrictions governing Airbnb/Booking.com (and their ilk)- which the RTB have said they are examining.

Ultimately what is your desired outcome from taking a case against the owner?

Sleeper12

davindub wrote:

I don't think use as holiday accommodation is what the RTA intended when they used the word "occupation". On that basis alone, even for their own use, the notice appears invalid.

It's off the market. No longer let to tenants. It's a private dwelling now It's out of their scope now.

If LL had let it again he'd be at fault. He isn't doing this. It's now a private dwelling the same as my own home. RTA has no say in how many nights per week /month the LL uses his own property. In fact he is no longer a LL.

matrim

Things like this and the people defending it are exactly why the current loopholes about eviction need to be removed.

If a landlord can't commit to renting somewhere for 6 years they should sell up.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Why on earth you would want to be a landlord is beyond me.

JJJackal

Jabari Squeaking Violoncello wrote: »

Why on earth you would want to be a landlord is beyond me.

I agree.

davindub

Sleeper12 wrote: »

davindub wrote:

I don't think use as holiday accommodation is what the RTA intended when they used the word "occupation". On that basis alone, even for their own use, the notice appears invalid.

It's off the market. No longer let to tenants. It's a private dwelling now It's out of their scope now.

If LL had let it again he'd be at fault. He isn't doing this. It's now a private dwelling the same as my own home. RTA has no say in how many nights per week /month the LL uses his own property. In fact he is no longer a LL.

Not one valid/ relevant point.

JJJackal

davindub wrote: »

Not one valid/ relevant point.

The main point is no one knows if the LL is occupying the house himself or not.

davindub

Jabari Squeaking Violoncello wrote: »

Why on earth you would want to be a landlord is beyond me.

Personally for capital gains. The income is quite attractive as well, just play fair. Yes there is a risk of non payment, same as any debtor, but that's business for you.

tretorn

matrim wrote: »

Things like this and the people defending it are exactly why the current loopholes about eviction need to be removed.

If a landlord can't commit to renting somewhere for 6 years they should sell up.

And if too many landlords sell up then the rental stock is reduced. This means people moving further out to rent and then rents further out increase too.

Who loses out when this happens, the tenant.

Sleeper12

davindub wrote: »

Not one valid/ relevant point.

I'm sorry if you don't understand my point being made. Fortunately most readers do.


OP would have a case if the LL rented it out again to tenants. He didn't do this & OP has no case.

So last October we got an eviction notice from our landlord, who is based in the US, stating that he wanted to use the apartment for himself and his wife for the periods of time when they returned home to Ireland.

In bold is the reasons given in the eviction notice & this is exactly what the LL is doing.


Please explain what case OP has. Dwelling is now a private property & not governed by RTB.



The RTB has no say in what goes on in a private dwelling.



The landlord changed the rental property into his own private dwelling. He is now governed by the same rules & laws you & I have in our own private homes.

Technocentral

Always Tired wrote: »

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

this thread is yet another example of why i as a LL never rent to Irish people.

because you don't want to follow the regulations and Irish people are more likely to know them and insist they be followed, so that their lives are not upended to foster bigger profits for landlords? well good for you i guess. but to me that's like saying, 'I much prefer to rob the elderly, they're less likely to fight back.'

anyway who cares what you do with your properties, it's irrevelant here.

Pesky tenants knowing their rights is the slippery slope.

davindub

Sleeper12 wrote: »

davindub wrote: »

Not one valid/ relevant point.

I'm sorry if you don't understand my point being made. Fortunately most readers do.


OP would have a case if the LL rented it out again to tenants. He didn't do this & OP has no case.

So last October we got an eviction notice from our landlord, who is based in the US, stating that he wanted to use the apartment for himself and his wife for the periods of time when they returned home to Ireland.

In bold is the reasons given in the eviction notice & this is exactly what the LL is doing.


Please explain what case OP has. Dwelling is now a private property & not governed by RTB.



The RTB has no say in what goes on in a private dwelling.



The landlord changed the rental property into his own private dwelling. He is now governed by the same rules & laws you & I have in our own private homes.

I understand it, it's just not correct.

The tenant appears to have been served an invalid notice stating the LL requires the property for his own holiday use, which the LL should not have evicted based upon. There is a remedy for this through the RTB. Whatever after this is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, occupation is unlikely to mean occasional/ holiday use. But, the OP is free to decide for themselves and pursue it if he/she wishes.

theneilmobile

theneilmobile wrote: »

So last October we got an eviction notice from our landlord, who is based in the US, stating that he wanted to use the apartment for himself and his wife for the periods of time when they returned home to Ireland.

The RTB does not seem to define whether the LL/family need to occupy the property full time, it does say that the eviction notice does need to confirm it is for a family member and it’s duration. The op has said they stated that the owners needed its use while they are in this country. And nothing posted so far contradicts this in any way. If they use it while they are in Ireland 5 times a year, they are “using” their property. What they do with it the rest of the time is their business.

So op, have you any reason to believe they are not using the property while they are in Ireland?

https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/ending-a-tenancy/how-a-landlord-can-end-a-tenancy/landlords-grounds-for-ending-a-tenancy/

Technocentral

tretorn wrote: »

matrim wrote: »

Things like this and the people defending it are exactly why the current loopholes about eviction need to be removed.

If a landlord can't commit to renting somewhere for 6 years they should sell up.

And if too many landlords sell up then the rental stock is reduced. This means people moving further out to rent and then rents further out increase too.

Who loses out when this happens, the tenant.

The state should buy up these rental apts and offer them for rental only, simple, no tricky dicky landords needed.

JJJackal

Technocentral wrote: »

The state should buy up these rental apts and offer them for rental only, simple, no tricky dicky landords needed.

Would you be willing to pay 10% more tax per year to facilitate these purchases?

Sleeper12

davindub wrote: »

I understand it, it's just not correct.

The tenant appears to have been served an invalid notice stating the LL requires the property for his own holiday use, which the LL should not have evicted based upon. There is a remedy for this through the RTB. Whatever after this is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, occupation is unlikely to mean occasional/ holiday use. But, the OP is free to decide for themselves and pursue it if he/she wishes.

That's not what it says in the OP. You are reading into it what you want to see. The LL doesn't say how often he'll be in Ireland. This could be weekly or monthly. He does NOT say holiday use. LL could be here every week. His sons, daughters, brothers & sisters could all use it. This falls under his "personal" use.

Cryptopagan

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's not what it says in the OP. You are reading into it what you want to see.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

OP would have a case if the LL rented it out again to tenants. He didn't do this & OP has no case.

In bold is the reasons given in the eviction notice & this is exactly what the LL is doing.

[...]

The landlord changed the rental property into his own private dwelling. He is now governed by the same rules & laws you & I have in our own private homes.

Irony alert.

FishOnABike

JJJackal wrote: »

The LL can also evict for substantial repair or renovations - which the OP said was done

Renovations need to be more than sprucing up the decor and fittings.

Unless the renovations were structural or of a nature that would have made it necessary for the tenant to vacate the property for a significant time I doubt the renovations would have been substantial enough for a valid termination of a tenancy.

The original post doesn't give any detail of the nature or extent of the renovations so it's difficult to say whether the termination of their tenancy was valid or not.

Mortelaro

davindub wrote: »

I understand it, it's just not correct.

The tenant appears to have been served an invalid notice stating the LL requires the property for his own holiday use, which the LL should not have evicted based upon. There is a remedy for this through the RTB. Whatever after this is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, occupation is unlikely to mean occasional/ holiday use. But, the OP is free to decide for themselves and pursue it if he/she wishes.

To get that definition determined properly,it would mean going to court
The OP could be lucky and the RTB decides the OP was wronged
The LL could then sue with a view to determine that their conditions determined that they now have a private home and that their right to do what they wish trumps the RTB opinion
Their opinion might be against the OP in the first place of course and I think it would
It would be surprising that the RTB would fund a case if there’s not enough open and shut law to back them up(specifically here a legally defined definition of how much own use is own use)
So I’m in the move on camp on this one

Wheres Me Jumper?

Always Tired wrote: »

because you don't want to follow the regulations and Irish people are more likely to know them and insist they be followed, so that their lives are not upended to foster bigger profits for landlords? well good for you i guess. but to me that's like saying, 'I much prefer to rob the elderly, they're less likely to fight back.'

anyway who cares what you do with your properties, it's irrevelant here.

actually, i don't rob anybody, nor do i jump on any passing compo bandwagon as so many posters like you, are so eager to do.

my tenants are treated very well, enjoy below market rents, never cause problems.
i never had a problem with them, except on one occasion when i made the mistake of letting to a dublin "gentleman" who wasn't in the apartment 5 mins. and he kept phoning me at all hours, rambling on about "his gaff".
luckily i managed to encourage this moron to vacate "his gaff" within a month.

my advice is to personally interview your tenants. i have found foreign nationals make much better, more mature tenants. as with irish, they are fully aware of their rights and 'er entitlements, but from my experience approach issues in a much more reasoned and mature manner, without the "evil landlord is killin us" chip on the shoulder, so evident from your posts.

luckily for me and other LLs, there is a steady supply of such people, many of whom work in the tech sector. they are busy professional people, whose main concern is their careers and have little time for creating problems with their LLs.

tretorn

Technocentral wrote: »

The state should buy up these rental apts and offer them for rental only, simple, no tricky dicky landords needed.

Do you mean buy them through complilsory purchase.

Anthonylfc

theneilmobile wrote: »

So last October we got an eviction notice from our landlord, who is based in the US, stating that he wanted to use the apartment for himself and his wife for the periods of time when they returned home to Ireland.

He gave us the correct amount of notice and although we suspected that he was just going to use the place for Airbnb we were respectful and went looking for new accommodation without causing too much fuss.

Luckily for us we managed to get another apartment for slightly under the rent we were paying, although it was a little more out of town and not as nice as where we were. This was a bit of a fluke since everything else we looked at was on average 300 more a month that what we were paying.

4 months have passed since we moved and our old apartment has been renovated and is on booking.com and Airbnb. We don't think that our eviction was legal (maybe we are wrong?) and we would like to report the landlord. We don't want to force a way to move back in, or want compensation.

Looking at the RTB site the options are for mediation or adjudication. However it seems to be that these are for resolving a dispute, but I don't need to mediate anything, I just want to report that what he has done is illegal and for the relevant authority to take appropriate action

Any advice?

people like you make my blood boil

ffs move on

his place , he gave adequate notice , regardless what he uses it for is none of your concern , he gave you the appropriate notice

Squatter

Jabari Squeaking Violoncello wrote: »

Why on earth you would want to be a landlord is beyond me.

Possibly because you didn't for an instance dream that a Fine Gael government would even dream of riding a coach and horses through the rights of property owners in order to pander to populism.

And it's worth bearing in mind that future governments are likely to be even less concerned with property owners' rights so if I was a LL I'd bail out now before things get even worse.

(I am not a LL, DG! Merely a disinterested observer of the ongoing assault on property owners' rights by a cowardly government led by a populist clown.)

Wheres Me Jumper?

davindub wrote: »

I understand it, it's just not correct.

The tenant appears to have been served an invalid notice stating the LL requires the property for his own holiday use, which the LL should not have evicted based upon. There is a remedy for this through the RTB. Whatever after this is irrelevant.

As I said earlier, occupation is unlikely to mean occasional/ holiday use. But, the OP is free to decide for themselves and pursue it if he/she wishes.

i disagree.
if the LL uses this property for his personal use while in ireland, and if it is his only residence in this state, then under revenue rules it is deemed as his PPR, and he is entitled to rent it out with AirBnB if he so desires.

i imagine he has changed the electricity, phone/broadband etc. into his name and will be able to furnish evidence/proof of such.

of course the OP is entitled to pursue a case through the RTB if he/she feels hard done by, but personally i would have thought most folk have better things to be doing.

then again reading some of these posts...:o

Cryptopagan

Anthonylfc wrote: »

people like you make my blood boil

ffs move on

his place , he gave adequate notice , regardless what he uses it for is none of your concern , he gave you the appropriate notice

If he is not occupying the place himself on an ongoing basis the notice is invalid.


As per the legislation:

4. The landlord requires the dwelling or the property containing the dwelling for his or her own occupation or for occupation by a member of his or her family and the notice of termination (the “notice”) contains or is accompanied, in writing, by a statement—

(a) specifying—

(i) the intended occupant's identity and (if not the landlord) his or her relationship to the landlord, and

(ii) the expected duration of that occupation

Residential Tenancies Act 2004


So if the OP sees the whole property is available on Airbnb for extended periods, their former landlord couldn't be in occupation during those periods.

Garibaldi?

What is the landlord's current postal address? For his regular mail-car tax, insurance, vhi, revenue, gas, electricity, all the stuff that comes through the door? That's significant!

Cryptopagan

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

of course the OP is entitled to pursue a case through the RTB if he/she feels hard done by, but personally i would have thought most folk have better things to be doing.

OP has said their new place is cheaper, but not as nice and further away, so you know, they might be quite happy to get the original rental back if they could.