Sales agent told me off...

Kidkinobe

Im a cash buyer that has got myself into a bidding war with another cash buyer...Now I wouldn't be bidding on the house if I didn't really like and want it....So the bidding continues, every 1000 I offer, they other bidder has offered 4000/5000 higher, so I bid 151k, they bid 155k, I bid 156k they bid 160K...that went on for the past week and my last bid was 175k and they have just bid 176k...I presume they are running out of cash as the 4000k offers have stopped or they are reaching the limit they are willing to pay.

Anywhoo, the agent was on the phone this morning informing me that the others have bid 176K and as usual, I said can I get back to you tomorrow, as apparently , slowing down a bidding war is the way to go, people bid in the heat of the moment and giving them 24 hours to think over the fact they have just placed a bid of 176 k on a property gives them time to reconsider whether they really want to invest that much into the place. That might be a load of baloney but slowing down the bidding works in my favour due to certain circumstances..

But this morning while on the phone to the agent and to make things interesting, I dropped that I am also cash bidding on another property, and he got a bit short with me saying 'if you don't want this house, it might be best if you drop out"
I replied with "But I do want it, Im looking for a house to live in and your property and the other property appeal to me'
He responded with 'its not fair on the other buyers or me as I might lose as sale over it'
I replied with, How will you lose a sale if you have two buyers wanting it, at the end of the day, If I do buy the other property, you still have the 2nd buyer that wants the one you have and I am happy to keep bidding until I reach my limit of what I am prepared to pay for it...
He started to ramble on about fairness at which point I cut him off and told him I would ring him back later in the day either with an offer or telling him I am out...
He got ****ty and just ended the convo with 'Fine' and then dropped the call.

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before as now I am starting to think there is no other bidder and I might be bidding against the agent..

The J Stands for Jay

I once had an agent give out to me for increasing bids in €1k increments.

Kidkinobe

McGaggs wrote: »

I once had an agent give out to me for increasing bids in €1k increments.

LOl..is it any wonder they have a bad rep...I might do what the other bidders done and go back in with 4 k over their bid and push it up to 180...just to see how that goes.

evolving tipperary

Kidkinobe wrote: »

LOl..is it any wonder they have a bad rep...I might do what the other bidders done and go back in with 4 k over their bid and push it up to 180...just to see how that goes.

OP, this is your agent.

gaz wac

Kidkinobe wrote: »

I might do what the other bidders done and go back in with 4 k over their bid and push it up to 180...just to see how that goes.

Why would you offer 4k when the other party are starting to run out of cash...if anything id increase my offer by €500

amcalester

Don't be surprised if the EA advised the seller to accept the other buyers bid so they are not left stranded if you go with the other house.

super_furry

amcalester wrote: »

Don't be surprised if the EA advised the seller to accept the other buyers bid so they are not left stranded if you go with the other house.

Yep. The estate agent wants certainty and will be turned off by the prospect of you revealing you're bidding on another house. They don't want the risk of going sale agreed only for you to pull out because you had an offer accepted elsewhere.

No harm in bidding on multiple properties, I'd just keep it to myself.

theteal

I've seen posters on here mention it not being right to be bidding on more than one house. I personally have not a single problem with it. As someone who has been gazumped and lost money on a sale falling through very late in the process (separate houses), I would recommend that buyers look at and bid on more than one house.

Gumbo

Kidkinobe wrote: »

Im a cash buyer that has got myself into a bidding war with another cash buyer...Now I wouldn't be bidding on the house if I didn't really like and want it....So the bidding continues, every 1000 I offer, they other bidder has offered 4000/5000 higher, so I bid 151k, they bid 155k, I bid 156k they bid 160K...that went on for the past week and my last bid was 175k and they have just bid 176k...I presume they are running out of cash as the 4000k offers have stopped or they are reaching the limit they are willing to pay.

Anywhoo, the agent was on the phone this morning informing me that the others have bid 176K and as usual, I said can I get back to you tomorrow, as apparently , slowing down a bidding war is the way to go, people bid in the heat of the moment and giving them 24 hours to think over the fact they have just placed a bid of 176 k on a property gives them time to reconsider whether they really want to invest that much into the place. That might be a load of baloney but slowing down the bidding works in my favour due to certain circumstances..

But this morning while on the phone to the agent and to make things interesting, I dropped that I am also cash bidding on another property, and he got a bit short with me saying 'if you don't want this house, it might be best if you drop out"
I replied with "But I do want it, Im looking for a house to live in and your property and the other property appeal to me'
He responded with 'its not fair on the other buyers or me as I might lose as sale over it'
I replied with, How will you lose a sale if you have two buyers wanting it, at the end of the day, If I do buy the other property, you still have the 2nd buyer that wants the one you have and I am happy to keep bidding until I reach my limit of what I am prepared to pay for it...
He started to ramble on about fairness at which point I cut him off and told him I would ring him back later in the day either with an offer or telling him I am out...
He got ****ty and just ended the convo with 'Fine' and then dropped the call.

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before as now I am starting to think there is no other bidder and I might be bidding against the agent..

Don't worry about it.
He is acting for the Seller, not you.

If you want it, buy it, remember you are buying the house, not the agents or his friendship.

Artifacting

The agent's job is to sell the house for the maximum price and that is all their job is.

It's unfair on their client if they don't do that!

Frankly, if an agent gets nasty I would pull my bid and tell them where to go. You're spending hundreds of thousands of euro with them. They can get stuffed if they start behaving like that.

Looks like we're back in the arrogance of about 2007 all over again. Let's hope that 2008 isn't around the corner.

Gumbo

Artifacting wrote: »

The agent's job is to sell the house for the maximum price and that is all their job is.

It's unfair on their client if they don't do that!

Frankly, if an agent gets nasty I would pull my bid and tell them where to go. You're spending hundreds of thousands of euro with them. They can get stuffed if they start behaving like that.

Looks like we're back in the arrogance of about 2007 all over again. Let's hope that 2008 isn't around the corner.

no need to get emotional about it, the OP is buying the house, not the agent.
If the house is really what they want, then buy, if not, then don't, but don't let the personality of someone you will never meet again dictate if you will buy your home or not.

Brian?

Op, you have no idea what the seller wants here, so selling price may not be the primary motivator. If they need X to buy a property they love and may be about to miss out on. They’ll accept X happily. If 2 people bid above X they could let it run a few days, comfortable they have 2 interested parties. If one of those parties tells the EA they’re also bidding elsewhere this changes the entire dynamic. They are now in a position where if they accept the highest bid it may fall through.

If I was the seller and I’d exceeded X, I would take the other bid today. No more messing around.

3DataModem

Kidkinobe wrote: »

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before as now I am starting to think there is no other bidder and I might be bidding against the agent..

I've experienced all kinds of **** from estate agents, buyers, and sellers... the way we do conveyance in Ireland encourages all sort of bad behaviour.

Your approach to buying this house seems solid, other than mentioning the fact that you have interest in another house. This means the agent knows you are a risk of pulling out right up to the point of signing contracts; this happens all the time and the agent knows it. While cash buyers are the fastest and most clean buyers, they also tend to be most selective, and less emotionally invested, as they haven't had to go through the valuation / mortgage approval / rigmarole.

They now "want" to sell the house to the other guy, not an ideal situation for you. Stick with your plan. Keep adding the 1k till you hit the ceiling or get the house. Good luck.

antiskeptic

Kidkinobe wrote: »

Im a cash buyer that has got myself into a bidding war with another cash buyer...Now I wouldn't be bidding on the house if I didn't really like and want it....So the bidding continues, every 1000 I offer, they other bidder has offered 4000/5000 higher, so I bid 151k, they bid 155k, I bid 156k they bid 160K...that went on for the past week and my last bid was 175k and they have just bid 176k...I presume they are running out of cash as the 4000k offers have stopped or they are reaching the limit they are willing to pay.

Anywhoo, the agent was on the phone this morning informing me that the others have bid 176K and as usual, I said can I get back to you tomorrow, as apparently , slowing down a bidding war is the way to go, people bid in the heat of the moment and giving them 24 hours to think over the fact they have just placed a bid of 176 k on a property gives them time to reconsider whether they really want to invest that much into the place. That might be a load of baloney but slowing down the bidding works in my favour due to certain circumstances..

But this morning while on the phone to the agent and to make things interesting, I dropped that I am also cash bidding on another property, and he got a bit short with me saying 'if you don't want this house, it might be best if you drop out"
I replied with "But I do want it, Im looking for a house to live in and your property and the other property appeal to me'
He responded with 'its not fair on the other buyers or me as I might lose as sale over it'
I replied with, How will you lose a sale if you have two buyers wanting it, at the end of the day, If I do buy the other property, you still have the 2nd buyer that wants the one you have and I am happy to keep bidding until I reach my limit of what I am prepared to pay for it...
He started to ramble on about fairness at which point I cut him off and told him I would ring him back later in the day either with an offer or telling him I am out...
He got ****ty and just ended the convo with 'Fine' and then dropped the call.

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this before as now I am starting to think there is no other bidder and I might be bidding against the agent..

You have to think of it from the EA's perspective. He is looking out for himself moreso than the client and once he's up to the point where he thinks he can sell the deal to the client he'll want to close as quickly as he possibly can.

I get to talking to a good number of agents and the pitfalls for sales falling through are legion. They have good reason to want to get the thing over the sale agreed line as soon as they can - not that that's a guarantee of close, but it shifts things along a good degree.

One problem they encounter is folk bidding on multiple properties. The longer the bidding continues on a property they are selling, the more chance folk currently on the hook will slip off the hook - them sale agreeing elsewhere.

So the idea of hanging around another day or two in order to obtain another grand or two makes no sense to them. And they know that folk getting into a few dollars more tit for tat, with days elapsing between each bid could go on forever. With only the prospect of folk falling away.

Strike whilst iron hot, get the bidding up to an acceptable-to-client level then get it sale agreed. You don't need to suppose conspiracy or phantoms bidders as a first port of call.

It's much more straightforward than that.

antiskeptic

Chatting to an estate agent I've gotten to know a bit. He bought himself and his strategy was to bid in decent increments quickly. Once the pace fell off and others began hmm-ing and haww-ing, he put a time limit on acceptance. He reckoned he was near enough, if below market value, that the selling agent could sell the deal.

Long drawn out gives indecisive people time to become decisive. And opens the way for small increment bids.

One strategy to try is to ask the agent, prior to bidding, what price they'd be happy to try to close the deal with the vendor at. That is: your bid direct to vendor with aim to close. You are meeting the agents need here - and they are the primary person who's need to you want to fulfill. They know the vendors expectations and personal situation and can best assess the magic figure.

If they refuse you withdraw your bid and let the agent know that refusal will mean withdrawal. You can always get back in if you like.

woodchuck

I wouldn't give a hoot about the estate agent. But morally it does seem wrong to enter into a bidding war on two separate properties. I don't think it's fair on the other buyer(s), as it could end up costing them tens of thousands extra.

What if everyone did this? Would we not just be pushing up the cost of housing even further for each other?

Kidkinobe

Some interesting options and points of view...its my first time buying in Ireland and a whole new experience...Where I used to live, you would bid on a house, the offer was either accepted or declined, if declined, a negotiation process would begin with the seller through the agent. within a few hours and both parties were happy, the sale would be agreed and within a month, you would be moving into your new home. If a price could not be agreed, the seller would just wait for the next buyer and try do a deal with them, One home I put an offer on and it was accepted within the hour, 2 weeks later I was helping a tenant move into the house.
If there were multiple offers on one property, all would be asked to put in there best offer within 5 days and the highest offer was usually the one accepted.
If houses went to auction, it was just like an auction here...every one meet in a room and bid away..highest bid got it.
This process in Ireland of having to repeatedly bid against some one you don't know even exists can be a bit of head spin for a newbie...
Thanks for the advice an tips.

Kidkinobe

woodchuck wrote: »

I wouldn't give a hoot about the estate agent. But morally it does seem wrong to enter into a bidding war on two separate properties. I don't think it's fair on the other buyer(s), as it could end up costing them tens of thousands extra.

What if everyone did this? Would we not just be pushing up the cost of housing even further for each other?

That was the agents point of view this morning on the phone..I said to him you are in the game to sell houses at market value/highest bidder and it usually is sold to the person that wants it the most...Moral values don't come into it...If I really want a house and have 200k to put on the house, but the other person has 201k....thats just my tough luck and all the more reason to be looking at other places that appeal to me in the meantime...

cruizer101

woodchuck wrote: »

What if everyone did this? Would we not just be pushing up the cost of housing even further for each other?

Most people do this, it would be madness not to if there were two houses you wanted as you could end up losing out on both.

dudara

woodchuck wrote: »

I wouldn't give a hoot about the estate agent. But morally it does seem wrong to enter into a bidding war on two separate properties. I don't think it's fair on the other buyer(s), as it could end up costing them tens of thousands extra.

What if everyone did this? Would we not just be pushing up the cost of housing even further for each other?

I get where you’re coming from, but at the end of the day, people have personal responsibility when they bid. At the end of the day, you are bidding what the house is worth to you. It’s no different to bidding at auction. I think people too often bring emotion into the house buying process rather than viewing it as a cold, hard financial transaction to purchase an asset.

I think it’s fine to bid on several properties, but you should be serious about it, and not speculative

antiskeptic

woodchuck wrote: »

I wouldn't give a hoot about the estate agent. But morally it does seem wrong to enter into a bidding war on two separate properties. I don't think it's fair on the other buyer(s), as it could end up costing them tens of thousands extra.

What if everyone did this? Would we not just be pushing up the cost of housing even further for each other?

I'd definitely give a hoot about the estate agent - they are the ones you have to get on board and whose needs must be met.

As for multiple bids? Why not? The value of a house is obtained by price discovery-what folk are prepared to pay. There's no other metric un town. By bidding on a number of properties you are doing nothing more than contributing to price discovery on each house.

You are, afterall, prepared to pay what you're bidding on any of the houses. Which means each of those houses has that value (whatever your bid is) and isn't costing anyone 10's of 000's more than its actual value.

CPTM

Kidkinobe wrote: »

Anywhoo, the agent was on the phone this morning informing me that the others have bid 176K and as usual, I said can I get back to you tomorrow, as apparently , slowing down a bidding war is the way to go, people bid in the heat of the moment and giving them 24 hours to think over the fact they have just placed a bid of 176 k on a property gives them time to reconsider whether they really want to invest that much into the place. That might be a load of baloney but slowing down the bidding works in my favour due to certain circumstances..

Would a delayed response not give the impression that you are reaching your limit, making the other bidder go again in case it's your last attempt? Just an idea, fast bid on your part might reduce hope on the other side.

Separately, Estate agents don't care about you and only want the sale. They do this everyday and don't care for side comments or what other property you care about. Ideally you and the other party would have decided internally what the max price you'll pay, and it should be an easy, incremental path to get there. So I would recommend deciding what that figure is for you and forget about any personalities or games involved.

Also, he was probably upset that you mentioned the other property because I'm sure he has experienced the 'time wasters' who are the highest bidders but pull out of the process after other interested parties have moved on. So he's trying to get a feel for whether you really want this one or the other so that he doesn't have to start the process all over again.

woodchuck

antiskeptic wrote: »

You are, afterall, prepared to pay what you're bidding on any of the houses. Which means each of those houses has that value (whatever your bid is) and isn't costing anyone 10's of 000's more than its actual value.

It can cost someone tens of thousands extra though. If one person pulls out of a bidding war to buy a separate property they've also been bidding on, the buyer of first property will have to pay much more because of the bidding war. Even if they can afford an extra 20-30k, they might have to tighten the belt a lot. Nobody wants to be down tens of thousands just because someone else was hedging their bets. I find it hard to believe that nobody would be pissed off if they found themselves in this position.

On an individual level I can totally appreciate looking out for yourself. But is it any wonder that the cost of houses are becoming unaffordable for so many if everyone is doing this? Not everyone has the means to go tens of thousands higher in a bidding war. I know it's not the biggest factor in the housing crisis, but it might just be the straw that broke the camels back for certain individuals.

antiskeptic

woodchuck wrote: »

It can cost someone tens of thousands extra though. If one person pulls out of a bidding war to buy a separate property they've also been bidding on, the buyer of first property will have to pay much more because of the bidding war.

All they will pay is the proper value of the property - as revealed by the fact that other people helped discover what that value was.

I'm assuming the drop out bidders were genuine and would have sale agreed at their bid price.

By expecting folk to bid on one property at a time you are artificially restricting the price discovery process. Sure, that will result in lower prices (by removing competition) but it's artificial.

Proper competition: where the house is well marketed and as many bidders as possible view/bid is the true way to establish true value.

Even if they can afford an extra 20-30k, they might have to tighten the belt a lot. Nobody wants to be down tens of thousands just because someone else was hedging their bets. I find it hard to believe that nobody would be pissed off if they found themselves in this position.

It's not so much hedging bets as spreading the net wide. The multi-bidder wants a house (to go without costs them in rent or it's autumn and they know the spring will bring new mortgage exemptions which will push up prices).

All that is happening at root, is price discovery due to market exposure. I know I'd prefer nobody else to see the house I'm interested in. But if looking only at how value is established, then multibids has no effect other than contributing to the establishment of value.

On an individual level I can totally appreciate looking out for yourself. But is it any wonder that the cost of houses are becoming unaffordable for so many if everyone is doing this? Not everyone has the means to go tens of thousands higher in a bidding war. I know it's not the biggest factor in the housing crisis, but it might just be the straw that broke the camels back for certain individuals.

Look at it this way: if a person is multibidding they are less likely to get involved in a bidding war on a particular property. They don't ball watch as much, they aren't overly focussed, they are weighing up cost/benefits objectively, they are more likely to find an ideal home if investing time and energy in comparing a number of options.

If only bidding on one property, they are more likely to get involved in a biddging war.

woodchuck

If I was buying a house that I planned to live and retire in, I wouldn't care about establishing the true value. I'd only care about how much it's going to cost me.

antiskeptic

woodchuck wrote: »

If I was buying a house that I planned to live and retire in, I wouldn't care about establishing the true value. I'd only care about how much it's going to cost me.

#metoo. I'm just pointing out that establishing value is normal in any market and that multibidders help that norm coming about. Any objection to that norm being achieved is something of a self-interested one (the understandable desire by the buyer to get a bargain) rather than something befitting normal market operation.

1874

antiskeptic wrote: »

Chatting to an estate agent I've gotten to know a bit. He bought himself and his strategy was to bid in decent increments quickly. Once the pace fell off and others began hmm-ing and haww-ing, he put a time limit on acceptance. He reckoned he was near enough, if below market value, that the selling agent could sell the deal.

Long drawn out gives indecisive people time to become decisive. And opens the way for small increment bids.

One strategy to try is to ask the agent, prior to bidding, what price they'd be happy to try to close the deal with the vendor at. That is: your bid direct to vendor with aim to close. You are meeting the agents need here - and they are the primary person who's need to you want to fulfill. They know the vendors expectations and personal situation and can best assess the magic figure.

If they refuse you withdraw your bid and let the agent know that refusal will mean withdrawal. You can always get back in if you like.

Do you mean, if they refuse to give a figure that is being asked?

facehugger99

I once put in a bid on a property - This would have been in the early 00's before things went mental. It was a good bit below the asking price, and the Agent scoffed at me down the phone and said that would be totally unacceptable to the Client.

I had to remind him that I didn't need him to provide commentary on my offer, his job was to convey it to the Vendor and get back to me with an answer.

Some of these guys think they're Gordon Gekko or something.

sKeith

antiskeptic wrote: »

All they will pay is the proper value of the property - as revealed by the fact that other people helped discover what that value was.

I'm assuming the drop out bidders were genuine and would have sale agreed at their bid price.

By expecting folk to bid on one property at a time you are artificially restricting the price discovery process. Sure, that will result in lower prices (by removing competition) but it's artificial.

Proper competition: where the house is well marketed and as many bidders as possible view/bid is the true way to establish true value.




It's not so much hedging bets as spreading the net wide. The multi-bidder wants a house (to go without costs them in rent or it's autumn and they know the spring will bring new mortgage exemptions which will push up prices).

All that is happening at root, is price discovery due to market exposure. I know I'd prefer nobody else to see the house I'm interested in. But if looking only at how value is established, then multibids has no effect other than contributing to the establishment of value.



Look at it this way: if a person is multibidding they are less likely to get involved in a bidding war on a particular property. They don't ball watch as much, they aren't overly focussed, they are weighing up cost/benefits objectively, they are more likely to find an ideal home if investing time and energy in comparing a number of options.

If only bidding on one property, they are more likely to get involved in a biddging war.

You say
"I'm assuming the drop out bidders were genuine and would have sale agreed at their bid price."

Which goes against the rest of what you say re multi-bidding.
You cannot make this assumption and still believe in the rest of it.


The multi-bidder is highest bidder on multi properties. (When you bid, you are highest bidder)

If both sellers accept the bids, then the multi-bidder is going to cause trouble somewhere, unless the multi-bidder was actually in the market to buy two properties. One of the sellers and estate agent pairs are rightfully going to be annoyed at the multi-bidder.

1641

antiskeptic wrote: »

#metoo. I'm just pointing out that establishing value is normal in any market and that multibidders help that norm coming about. Any objection to that norm being achieved is something of a self-interested one (the understandable desire by the buyer to get a bargain) rather than something befitting normal market operation.

So would a false bidder (plant) also just be helping to establish the value of the property - the "norm" as you refer to it ?

antiskeptic

1874 wrote: »

Do you mean, if they refuse to give a figure that is being asked?

An example from recent experience. House asking 325k. I lowball at 260k which is refused. Someone else enters and things crawl up to me at 275 but no acceptance. Righto, its not running away and there's been a good number of open views. I don't know how far my co crawler will crawl to so decide to try to get a jump on them. So I ask the ea what will he go to the vendor with as a price-to-sale agree. 295 is the answer so I bid 295. He goes to vendor who says 310.

I withdraw my bid of 295 and revert to 275 (and check next day that the agent is citing 275 as the current bid).

Unfortunately, more folk come in and the thing goes for something like asking and I'm out.

Which underlines the agents own experience of buying for himself: move it along quickly and minimize exposure time on the market