Royal Canal Greenway

blanch152

abcabc123123 wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for another consultation?

The Fitzwilliam cycle way has had 21 consultations and still has councillors claiming the thing hasn't been properly considered, needs to be reworked, needs to focus on residents concerns, etc. People don't like change. Most councillors haven't got a breeze about good planning and are much happier chasing non existent perfect solutions or ludicrously expensive ones, so that they can avoid having to tell their constituents something they don't want to hear, and simultaneously claim to be pro-walking/pro-cycling/pro-environment despite their actions continually pointing to the opposite.

Maybe Fingal works different to DCC but experience of the liffey cycle way and others doesn't make me optimistic about anything being delivered here.

Sure, wait until Ruth Coppinger is telling the residents there will be no cycleway and then telling cyclists groups she completely supports them. That is the way of councillors.

Birdie Num Num

blanch152 wrote: »

Sure, wait until Ruth Coppinger is telling the residents there will be no cycleway and then telling cyclists groups she completely supports them. That is the way of councillors.

Greenway not cycleway

Lord Glentoran

Does CRH make submissions along the lines of “you could do with a nice bit of tarmac there sor”?

ilsilenzio

blanch152

You appear to have entirely misunderstood the thrust of the comment, and no one is in fact laughing. I did not claim to be an ornithologist or an expert on the avionics of bird flight, take off and landing, velocities or direction of the left leg during flight etc, and further was not referring to the relative height or slope of the bridge as between either side. I did not know of this unusual issue but during discussions it was stated, by someone, correctly or not, that modern bridges (near rivers, as bridges generally tend to be sited) need to be designed to be high enough to enable bird/ swan flight thereunder. Whether this is correct or not I do not particularly care, it is not my issue. The point being made was that I would have thought any gobdaw planning a bridge WOULD or should know whether this was or not a requirement. ! Also the Humpback Bridge and Coolmine bridges were built in less, nature friendly times ,but will still, no doubt outlast the previously referred to, recently poorly constructed, pedestrian bridge at Coolmine.

The Roundabout reference was off topic but an example of planners getting things wrong.
With regards to those in Ongar, the design danger is in many ways more serious for the pedestrian than for the motorist--- cars approaching a roundabout, irrespective of laws and rules, will pay far more attention to vehicles approaching from the right than to pedestrians who are on the middle of a crossing as the cars speed left to "beat" the traffic. The zebra crossings should be 50/ 70 metres from junctions, for the safety of pedestrians. Both deserve protection, and I did not wish to show a preference or as you say facilitation to either. It does also unnecessarily clog the roundabouts, the design of which is to facilitate traffic flow.

Pat Dunne

blanch152 wrote: »

Sure, wait until Ruth Coppinger is telling the residents there will be no cycleway and then telling cyclists groups she completely supports them. That is the way of councillors.

Ruth Coppinger is not a Councillor.

Mercian Pro

A few thoughts having walked the Deep Sinking and all the Delwood cul-de-sacs and Park this morning.

The Royal Canal Greenway when completed will be a super facility for leisure and commuter use and for walkers, joggers, cyclists and hopefully, wheelchair users. Trying to shoehorn it onto the south bank of the Deep Sinking was always going to involve major compromises and could never meet the standards set out in the National Cycling Manual. The imaginative solution of crossing over to the north bank just after the Roselawn Estate is brilliant and should allow a high quality shared use Greenway of a similar standard to the Ashtown/M50 section.

I'm not familiar with the history of previous anti-social behaviour in the area but I was very impressed by the absence of any signs of a current problem. The lane linking Brompton Court and Brompton Grove is not overlooked but, other than a single piece of graffiti on an ESB box, is spotless.

From looking over the fences and walls at the ends of the cul-de-sacs, the ground level generally appears to be the same as the roads and gardens nearby. There seems to be extensive encroachment onto the former CIE lands by extended side gardens. Behind Delwood Park, the large majority of the original gardens have more than doubled in size again by encroaching on the former public lands. Unfortunately, the area taken is probably the most suited for the Greenway being relatively level. If the Greenway has to be built behind the extended gardens, it will have to be cut into the sloping bank and should be well below the garden levels. The houses in Delwood Park also look out on one of the largest green spaces I have ever seen in a housing estate.

What is most disappointing about this consultation process is, not the fears of the residents, but the fact that these have been encouraged and amplified by most local politicians. These "public servants" are, or should be, aware of the bigger picture and with a bit of research should see that many of the local fears are unfounded. While Councillors are obviously focused on the upcoming local elections, there is really no excuse for some of the TDs.

Birdie Num Num

Has anyone mentioned anglers yet?

blanch152

Mercian Pro wrote: »

A few thoughts having walked the Deep Sinking and all the Delwood cul-de-sacs and Park this morning.

The Royal Canal Greenway when completed will be a super facility for leisure and commuter use and for walkers, joggers, cyclists and hopefully, wheelchair users. Trying to shoehorn it onto the south bank of the Deep Sinking was always going to involve major compromises and could never meet the standards set out in the National Cycling Manual. The imaginative solution of crossing over to the north bank just after the Roselawn Estate is brilliant and should allow a high quality shared use Greenway of a similar standard to the Ashtown/M50 section.

I'm not familiar with the history of previous anti-social behaviour in the area but I was very impressed by the absence of any signs of a current problem. The lane linking Brompton Court and Brompton Grove is not overlooked but, other than a single piece of graffiti on an ESB box, is spotless.

From looking over the fences and walls at the ends of the cul-de-sacs, the ground level generally appears to be the same as the roads and gardens nearby. There seems to be extensive encroachment onto the former CIE lands by extended side gardens. Behind Delwood Park, the large majority of the original gardens have more than doubled in size again by encroaching on the former public lands. Unfortunately, the area taken is probably the most suited for the Greenway being relatively level. If the Greenway has to be built behind the extended gardens, it will have to be cut into the sloping bank and should be well below the garden levels. The houses in Delwood Park also look out on one of the largest green spaces I have ever seen in a housing estate.

What is most disappointing about this consultation process is, not the fears of the residents, but the fact that these have been encouraged and amplified by most local politicians. These "public servants" are, or should be, aware of the bigger picture and with a bit of research should see that many of the local fears are unfounded. While Councillors are obviously focused on the upcoming local elections, there is really no excuse for some of the TDs.

Excellent summary of the situation.

beauf

blanch152 wrote: »

Excellent summary of the situation.

Only if one missed and/or ignored all the information in this thread.

beauf

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Has anyone mentioned anglers yet?

Most people won't know about anglers because they've never used the path.

I've met the odd angler on this section I was under the impression perhaps wrongly that it was more popular for fishing further out, past coolmine.

You pass the odd one on here and their on the way into the city center. But not that many.

beauf

magicbastarder wrote: »

coolmine to o'connell bridge, according to google maps - 10.3km going through the phoenix park.
11.4km going along the canal and coming off at cross guns bridge (and that's avoiding the deep sinking which probably add a couple of hundred metres).

i know which option i'd take.

It not just the distance. Lots of kissing gates and crossing roads, just makes it slower. The gates are a real pain with panniers, or any longish bike.

Seanie_H

beauf wrote: »

It not just the distance. Lots of kissing gates and crossing roads, just makes it slower. The gates are a real pain with panniers, or any longish bike.

In my experience, I get that back through the absence of traffic lights on the canal. The gates are a pain but accumulative result is prob 1.5 mins max?

Also the North Quays are fairly hazardous, particularly after 8.15am. The layout is not fit the volume of cyclists vs. traffic and the traffic lights are a major hindrance.

Canal all the way for me.

beauf

abc_abc wrote: »

Irish Rail confirmed they never had and still don't have issues with the path on the south side.

Fingal plan it as 4m wide urban greenway and this obviously won't fit in. For comparison, busy section in Ashtown is 3m wide.

A 2m path would be a huge improvement.

I don't care which side its on. Seems less work on the southside because you don't need a bridge. But I don't see why you have to cause problems for the residents. Build a fence to shield them why not. The only section you don't have to go end to end is the bit after ashtown.

Birdie Num Num

beauf wrote: »

Most people won't know about anglers because they've never used the path.

I've met the odd angler on this section I was under the impression perhaps wrongly that it was more popular for fishing further out, past coolmine.

You pass the odd one on here and their on the way into the city center. But not that many.

You'll see more out towards Leixlip from Pakenham Bridge. There is a match stretch with marked metal plates on the bank.

beauf

Seanie_H wrote: »

In my experience, I get that back through the absence of traffic lights on the canal. The gates are a pain but accumulative result is prob 1.5 mins max?

Also the North Quays are fairly hazardous, particularly after 8.15am. The layout is not fit the volume of cyclists vs. traffic and the traffic lights are a major hindrance.

Canal all the way for me.

Have to consider that the park is half your distance and no stopping at all.
I don't mind the north quays. Dislike the south quays.

For me the Park and the quays is a good 15 min faster than the canal. Not entirely sure why its much the same distance.

beauf

muckwarrior wrote: »

....I did hear one of the engineers at the consultation tell someone that Waterways Ireland stipulated that the tow path must remain functional, so not sure if the required railing that a boardwalk would need is the issue, but there are trees between the tow path and water in many places so technically the tow path isn't functional anyway....

I don't think it was ever "functional".

..As well as being a waste of money, the cutting was also a serious hazard to navigation. It is very narrow in places, so boats had trouble passing each other, and, with the towpath up much higher than the canal, many horses were dragged into the canal and drowned. Worse still, in November 1845 there was a serious accident in the cutting. A passenger boat hit a rock on the edge of the cutting at night, and capsized deep in the cutting, drowning 16 people.
...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bbusschots/6976294706

ilsilenzio

Mercian Pro,
Well put together piece, but:-
I as a local since 1977 would find it hard to put together such a concise survey of the preferred route past Brompton/ Delwood as you mention both. Maybe you had access to a number of properties, as I know with certainty that you would need a 20ft ladder to see to the other side on at least one of the cup de sacs. The growth is so dense and high. The fair comment on lack of evidence of anti social behaviour is testament to successful closure of access points over the years, thank you. They plan to now negate previous efforts. The decent size of Delwood Park is irrelevant to the discussion .. It is the back of the envelope planning for the rere of the houses which is the problem. No, the politicians did not stir it, or did you witness otherwise at the open day or any of the 5 public meetings-- the anger of the majority was quite sufficient. The process has been absolutely abysmally planned and executed, it is not a Plan.

beauf

ilsilenzio wrote: »

...I know with certainty that you would need a 20ft ladder to see to the other side on at least one of the cup de sacs. ....

Which one out of curiosity?

Another video of some of the section after twelfth lock here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhW4R-ZkFC4

Grudaire

ilsilenzio wrote: »

No, the politicians did not stir it, or did you witness otherwise at the open day or any of the 5 public meetings-- the anger of the majority was quite sufficient.

Based on the open day that I attended I would caveat that the majority of speakers/affected locals were against.

The majority didn't actually speak, and it will be a calculated political decision to sink the project entirely as there is support among the wider public for the greenway (albeit ambivalence about some of the details)


I see the canal has now got an invasive species as well :-/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/invasive-rodent-spotted-along-dublin-s-royal-canal-1.3834367

thomasj

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/invasive-rodent-spotted-along-dublin-s-royal-canal-1.3834367?mode=amp

Firewall as well

Not good news. I wonder where they came from?

Birdie Num Num

Grudaire wrote: »

Based on the open day that I attended I would caveat that the majority of speakers/affected locals were against.

The majority didn't actually speak, and it will be a calculated political decision to sink the project entirely as there is support among the wider public for the greenway (albeit ambivalence about some of the details)


I see the canal has now got an invasive species as well :-/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/invasive-rodent-spotted-along-dublin-s-royal-canal-1.3834367

Is there info on who reported the sightings? Otters have definitely been spotted recently on the canal but closer to the city.

ilsilenzio

Glad it was Waterways Ireland who decided to release this info now, otherwise the conspiracy theorists would have a field day !! While there were remarks about rats being disturbed by the works, snails would have been more welcome. If these critters couldn't swim we could also call to leave them on the Southside with the upgraded route !! Only joking, saying.

Former Former

thomasj wrote: »

Not good news. I wonder where they came from?

Some f**king idiot in Cork imported them for his pet farm, and of course, they escaped and started breeding.

daymobrew

beauf wrote: »

It not just the distance. Lots of kissing gates and crossing roads, just makes it slower. The gates are a real pain with panniers, or any longish bike.

Near Broombridge I saw a guy bring a scrambler bike through a kissing gate. They are obviously not as good at stopping motorbikes as people think.

beauf wrote: »

A 2m path would be a huge improvement.

The widened tow path opposite 12th Lock Hotel is now about 2.5m (I had a measuring tape). It's a really nice width. I had emailed them in February and they removed all the encroaching grass/soil. A brilliant job.

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Otters have definitely been spotted recently on the canal but closer to the city.

I saw an otter at 12th Lock on 25 January (I have a bad photo of its head sticking out of the water).

Fr_Dougal

daymobrew wrote: »

I saw an otter at 12th Lock on 25 January (I have a bad photo of its head sticking out of the water).

Are you sure it wasn’t one of those South American rats?

daymobrew

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Are you sure it wasn’t one of those South American rats?

While I didn't see any orange teeth, it could have been.

Bandana boy

I have video between 8th and 9th locks and it was 100% otters

Hurrache

beauf wrote: »

Have to consider that the park is half your distance and no stopping at all.
I don't mind the north quays. Dislike the south quays.

For me the Park and the quays is a good 15 min faster than the canal. Not entirely sure why its much the same distance.

You have to get into the Park, and back out of it again. The park is a beautiful commute in the morning, but it's horrible to get in there and get back out again. You can decide if you want to participate in the **** show down the quays, or cut through Kilmainham onto the rather more pleasant canal.

As it is I'm sure many cyclists, myself included, chose a route that's more pleasant and safer over one that may be faster.

magicbastarder

funnily enough, castleknock village is being discussed in the 'cycling near misses/close passes' thread on the cycling forum.

abc_abc

daymobrew wrote: »

The widened tow path opposite 12th Lock Hotel is now about 2.5m (I had a measuring tape). It's a really nice width. I had emailed them in February and they removed all the encroaching grass/soil. A brilliant job.

2m or even 3m is totally sufficient around Deep Sinking in my opinion. A busy section in Ashtown where the apartment blocks are is 3m wide. The widest section between Astown and M50 is 3.5m (I used measuring tape, too). 4m in width on the north bank is an overkill.