Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

Bazzo

yerrahbah wrote: »

Its hard to know how much the weather impacted the game plan or how bad it actually was out there

I can tell you from first hand experience the entire west coast of the UK has had absolutely ****ing biblical wind and rain from first thing this morning right through til now. There was a steady 2" of water on the motorway surface on my 30 mile commute to work and by the way home it was double that with the occasional deep flood(on 3-4 lane motorways!!)

Pepp1989

I don't think JJ is good enough for Munster to go on and win silverware. He isn't the only one. I'd rather see the time invested in those that might. If the coaches feel that mixing and matching selections would bring Healy on the best way then so be it.

The lad came on and nailed a difficult conversion and landed a monster penalty. Back him next week would be my own take. He should be confident. Let him build on it. JJ had a very average to poor game today.

My own opinion is that JJ at this point will not kick on to be the 10 we need. Again, not the only player regularly selected who I think that is true of.

It is less shiny new toy and more about JJ reaching his level and it being below what's required for Munster to break the ceiling.

Richie_Rich89

Great cameo from Healy, but if he started and had a bad day against Edinburgh then you could have two outhalves low on confidence on your hands. Him coming off the bench this time worked well. He played exceptionally and the match was won, so why not go same again? Give him a good half an hour or longer against Edinburgh and then you'll have more data to go on and can move forward with potentially a stable transition without knee-jerk reactions.

Buer

shootermacg wrote: »

I will come out and say it now he's not good enough to play club rugby.

Just come out and say it, if you think he's a great player, make a case for it. This ****e about being good enough for the league is nonsense. A league player is consistent, no frills but dependable. JJ is erratic, inconsistent and shouldn't be within an asses roar of the first team.

The fact that you think he is, is a reflection on your judgement. I've a tower in Blackpool for sale if you're interested.

You continually make things up that haven't been said or outlandish claims. It's like you're arguing with yourself or having a make believe conversation at times.

BloodyBill

yerrahbah wrote: »

JJ was pretty much our only fit outhalf for the majority of last season.

In that time I'd categorize most of his performances as being decent to very good

The two blots would be the missed drop goal vs Racing (that's after he nailed a touchline conversion to tie the game)

And the performance in the SF vs Leinster

Other than that I cant think of many poor performances from him

I'd have no issue with Healy starting next week, himself and JJ will have to share the workload at 10 regardless.

If it were me I'd give JJ a chance to redeem himself next week

JJ is not a pressure player. The 2 blots on his copybook from last season were two crunch moments. He shouldn't even be at munster. If he wasn't from kerry and Munster he'd have been let go along time ago and not brought back.

BloodyBill

Buer wrote: »

It's incredible how quickly people forget and dismiss.

Hanrahan nailed a halfway line penalty to win a Pro14 playoff game only last year.

Next thing you'll say is that he thrives under pressure. The guy has got more chances than he deserves. If he wasn't from Kerry and Munster, say he was English then he'd have been let go years ago and certainly not brought back..

Kirk Van Houten

I swear to god some people on here have never even seen a rugby match, understand how a squad works or what's required to be competitive at any level.

Some players may not be 1st XV when everyone is fit or available but then it's very rare that everyone is fit or available.

This absolute horse shoite that JJ doesn't even deserve a contract is the worst I've read in a while. He's not first choice. He's second choice and playing because Carbery is injured. He's there to do a job and is creating competition for the jersey. He's under pressure as back up now.

To some because he's not first choice he should be dropped. Well let's go to Leinster and see about Michael Bent, Rhys Ruddock, etc Are they just blocking the pipeline?

mike_cork

Kirk Van Houten wrote: »

I swear to god some people on here have never even seen a rugby match, understand how a squad works or what's required to be competitive at any level.

Some players may not be 1st XV when everyone is fit or available but then it's very rare that everyone is fit or available.

This absolute horse shoite that JJ doesn't even deserve a contract is the worst I've read in a while. He's not first choice. He's second choice and playing because Carbery is injured. He's there to do a job and is creating competition for the jersey. He's under pressure as back up now.

To some because he's not first choice he should be dropped. Well let's go to Leinster and see about Michael Bent, Rhys Ruddock, etc Are they just blocking the pipeline?

Great post!
Unfortunately rugby supporters have gone the way of the soccer fans. Lose one game/perform poorly and it's "sack them". If for arguements sake JJ was sacked in the morning as some people on this thread have been demanding....That would leave Munster with a crocked fh (carbery) who even if fit would be away with ireland for large portions of the season and 2 young unproven fh's in healy and crowley.
It's a crazy argument being put forward tbh.

aloooof

With Carbery out indefinitely, it’d leave us with Healy, Flannery and Crowley, so a cumulative 1 start at 10 in senior rugby. Add in Rory Scannell and you’re up to 3 starts.

What some people are saying here seems entirely divorced from reality, imo.

kuang1

As far as I can tell, only one poster has been ott (imo) about JJ.
That poster complaining about the Kerry/munster sh1te aside, I think what a minority of us are trying to say is that we all know where JJ's ceiling is now.

Healy has age on his side and no one knows where his ceiling is. I'd love to find that out as swiftly as is reasonably possible. If that turns out to be higher than JJ's then JJ should rightfully occupy the 3rd choice slot.

And if we were lucky, (and fcuk knows we're due some good luck at this stage) he might even overtake Carbery.

Point is, these are unknowns right now. But it only takes giving Healy more game time and a few starts to stop them from being unknowns!

Hopefully that's what we'll see over the next few weeks.

yerrahbah

What happens with O'Mahony now?

Does he appear infront of a disciplinary panel like he would if he was cited?

What range of suspension is he looking at?

lawrencesummers

Carbery is the new Tyler.

On paper he is world class.
On grass made of glass.

kingofthekong

If Munster are to win any silverware in the next two to three years baring and exeptional performance and some luck in the knockouts then they will need to bring their young guns through.

Leinster lost: O'brien, O'driscoll, D'arcy, Nacewa, Heaslip, Contempomi, Fitzgerald, Jennings, Elsom, Kearney, Whitaker

These were the players that were the backbone of the team that won them the initial titles, most of them world class players.

And you know what they did they replaced them with all home grown talent who were given opportunities by the coaches:

Deegan, Doris, Connors, VDF, Leavy, Ringrose, Keenan, Larmour, Sexton, Carberry, J.Ryan, Baird, L.Mcgrath, Kelleher, Furlong, Conan..I could go on.

Leinster have inherent advantages with population, private schools etc of course but Munster are also massively to blame for the fact that the last player they have brought through that you could classify as world class was POM and he was in the U20 class of 2009.....

Thats an appalling conversion of young players into top class talent for over 10 years...

Now Munster have had their best crop of talent at u20 level in the last couple of years, guys like: O'sullivan, Ahern, Crowley, Healey, Flannery, Wren, Hodnett, French and Kendellen

Munster have been extremely conservative the last 10 years with young players and a result have produced very little and have been trophyless for years.....so why follow the same approach, they have to do better, they have to take more risks and potentially drop some games for long term success.

The fact that Ben Healy at 20 odd years of age and a fraction of JJ's experience has the stones to nail 2 clutch kicks to steal a win away for Munster at Scarlets and people still wont give him the leg up to get a run at starting 10 is laughable. OF COURSE HES GONNA MAKE MISTAKES.....I saw Sexton make a ton of mistakes at home against a piss poor dragons, you have to let these guys play and learn from them.

The over conservative nature of Munster selections and wanting a player to look like the next Beauden Barrett before he gets a shot has gotten Munster a grand total of zero European trophies in the last 12 years.

irelandrover

kingofthekong wrote: »

The fact that Ben Healy at 20 odd years of age and a fraction of JJ's experience has the stones to nail 2 clutch kicks to steal a win away for Munster at Scarlets and people still wont give him the leg up to get a run at starting 10 is laughable. OF COURSE HES GONNA MAKE MISTAKES.....I saw Sexton make a ton of mistakes at home against a piss poor dragons, you have to let these guys play and learn from them.

I haven't seen anyone say that he shouldn't get games. The most I've seen is people saying that there are a lot of games coming up and both JJ and Healy will be needed.

thomond2006

A lot of players who may been converted into starters were ruined by injury, as has been pointed out many times on here.

The Lost Sheep

yerrahbah wrote: »

What happens with O'Mahony now?

Does he appear infront of a disciplinary panel like he would if he was cited?

What range of suspension is he looking at?

A red card means an automatic meeting with discipline panel. Ban would probably be nothing as it would be seen as sending off sufficient considering what both yellow card infringements were.

kingofthekong wrote: »

If Munster are to win any silverware in the next two to three years baring and exeptional performance and some luck in the knockouts then they will need to bring their young guns through.

Leinster lost: O'brien, O'driscoll, D'arcy, Nacewa, Heaslip, Contempomi, Fitzgerald, Jennings, Elsom, Kearney, Whitaker

These were the players that were the backbone of the team that won them the initial titles, most of them world class players.

And you know what they did they replaced them with all home grown talent who were given opportunities by the coaches:

Deegan, Doris, Connors, VDF, Leavy, Ringrose, Keenan, Larmour, Sexton, Carberry, J.Ryan, Baird, L.Mcgrath, Kelleher, Furlong, Conan..I could go on.

Leinster have inherent advantages with population, private schools etc of course but Munster are also massively to blame for the fact that the last player they have brought through that you could classify as world class was POM and he was in the U20 class of 2009.....

Thats an appalling conversion of young players into top class talent for over 10 years...

Now Munster have had their best crop of talent at u20 level in the last couple of years, guys like: O'sullivan, Ahern, Crowley, Healey, Flannery, Wren, Hodnett, French and Kendellen

Munster have been extremely conservative the last 10 years with young players and a result have produced very little and have been trophyless for years.....so why follow the same approach, they have to do better, they have to take more risks and potentially drop some games for long term success.

The fact that Ben Healy at 20 odd years of age and a fraction of JJ's experience has the stones to nail 2 clutch kicks to steal a win away for Munster at Scarlets and people still wont give him the leg up to get a run at starting 10 is laughable. OF COURSE HES GONNA MAKE MISTAKES.....I saw Sexton make a ton of mistakes at home against a piss poor dragons, you have to let these guys play and learn from them.

The over conservative nature of Munster selections and wanting a player to look like the next Beauden Barrett before he gets a shot has gotten Munster a grand total of zero European trophies in the last 12 years.

Munster are bringing the players through. That Ben got those kicks shouldnt be anything to do with JJ. Ben has a massive boot, great kick percentages etc and him not being pushed by more people to play more at 10 is about other areas of his game which do need more improvement

Going on about players who are 'world class' isnt exactly fair though is it? Very few players are anywhere near world class.

kingofthekong

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

A red card means an automatic meeting with discipline panel. Ban would probably be nothing as it would be seen as sending off sufficient considering what both yellow card infringements were.
Munster are bringing the players through. That Ben got those kicks shouldnt be anything to do with JJ. Ben has a massive boot, great kick percentages etc and him not being pushed by more people to play more at 10 is about other areas of his game which do need more improvement

Going on about players who are 'world class' isnt exactly fair though is it? Very few players are anywhere near world class.

And how he will make those changes is by playing, more minutes, more games, more starts.

Munster should aim to have him ready for Europe this season because Jj wont cut it this year ...thats obvious

The Lost Sheep

kingofthekong wrote: »

And how he will make those changes is by playing, more minutes, more games, more starts.

Munster should aim to have him ready for Europe this season because Jj wont cut it this year ...thats obvious

And he will and is going to get more game time. The games in August were always going to see the older more experienced guys.

aloooof

kingofthekong wrote: »

And how he will make those changes is by playing, more minutes, more games, more starts.

Munster should aim to have him ready for Europe this season because Jj wont cut it this year ...thats obvious

Do you think he won't get more minutes, more games, more starts?

cadaliac

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Great cameo from Healy, but if he started and had a bad day against Edinburgh then you could have two outhalves low on confidence on your hands. Him coming off the bench this time worked well. He played exceptionally and the match was won, so why not go same again? Give him a good half an hour or longer against Edinburgh and then you'll have more data to go on and can move forward with potentially a stable transition without knee-jerk reactions.

This. Exactly this.

lawrencesummers

Let him have a bad day against edinburgh, he had a terrible start against the Scarlets getting put into touch and missing a kick from hand but was able to turn it around.

Let him have have a month of bad days and get them out of his system before the Champions cup starts. Let him learn from them and become the player that JJ is simply not able to become.

Caranica

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Let him have a bad day against edinburgh, he had a terrible start against the Scarlets getting put into touch and missing a kick from hand but was able to turn it around.

Let him have have a month of bad days and get them out of his system before the Champions cup starts. Let him learn from them and become the player that JJ is simply not able to become.

Did he not have a bad day against Edinburgh last season? A game we really should have won and would have stopped us meeting in Leinster in the semi final?

Not having a go at Healy, I'm a big fan. I'm just not sure I'd start him v Edinburgh, would rather bring him on at 50 minutes. I guess it will also depend on who starts at 9.

CONSI

dont think it matters who starts at 10, the whole backline game plan has to be looked at. I havnt seen a strike play from our backline that doesnt involve a big centre bashing straight in a long time. no innovation...say what you want about sexton and his loops but they work..our 9 and 10 are no threat...defences can easily shuffle across to our centers. Whens the last time our 9 made any kind of break..you have to keep their 10 and 8 honest...our 9's either pass or kick...look at how much cooney brings to ulster...any score from our backline seems to come from individual break or loose play

Pepp1989

CONSI wrote:

dont think it matters who starts at 10, the whole backline game plan has to be looked at. I havnt seen a strike play from our backline that doesnt involve a big centre bashing straight in a long time. no innovation...say what you want about sexton and his loops but they work..our 9 and 10 are no threat...defences can easily shuffle across to our centers. Whens the last time our 9 made any kind of break..you have to keep their 10 and 8 honest...our 9's either pass or kick...look at how much cooney brings to ulster...any score from our backline seems to come from individual break or loose play

We are losing collisions. Knock on effect is back line losing an extra second.

lawrencesummers

Caranica wrote: »

Did he not have a bad day against Edinburgh last season? A game we really should have won and would have stopped us meeting in Leinster in the semi final?

Not having a go at Healy, I'm a big fan. I'm just not sure I'd start him v Edinburgh, would rather bring him on at 50 minutes. I guess it will also depend on who starts at 9.

That loss to edinburgh was about a lot more than one player.

You don’t get experience riding pine.

thomond2006

Caranica wrote: »

Did he not have a bad day against Edinburgh last season? A game we really should have won and would have stopped us meeting in Leinster in the semi final?

Not having a go at Healy, I'm a big fan. I'm just not sure I'd start him v Edinburgh, would rather bring him on at 50 minutes. I guess it will also depend on who starts at 9.

The game last year against Edinburgh pitted our mostly second string side against Edinburgh's first team.

Shane Daly; Calvin Nash, Sammy Arnold, Dan Goggin, Alex Wootton; Ben Healy, Nick McCarthy;
Liam O’Connor, Rhys Marshall, Stephen Archer; Fineen Wycherley, Darren O’Shea; Jack O’Donoghue (C) Tommy O’Donnell, Arno Botha.

Replacements: Kevin O’Byrne, James Cronin, Keynan Knox, Jed Holloway, Conor Oliver, Neil Cronin, JJ Hanrahan, Rory Scannell.

Munster made a decision to prioritise Europe, which nobody could disagree with. That lineup did well enough considering.

phog

Our discipline was bad but the officiating was terrible, minutes after POM's 1st card Scarlets repeat his offence but no sanction, not even a penalty. How did 4 officials miss a sliding tackle, studs first into Farrell while they reviewed POM's 2nd card? There was one penalty after POM went off and you see CJ look in disbelief at the ref.

Overall, we got to be happy to come away with the win and we scored 3 tries to their zero.

mike_cork

phog wrote: »

Our discipline was bad but the officiating was terrible, minutes after POM's 1st card Scarlets repeat his offence but no sanction, not even a penalty. How did 4 officials miss a sliding tackle, studs first into Farrell while they reviewed POM's 2nd card? There was one penalty after POM went off and you see CJ look in disbelief at the ref.

Overall, we got to be happy to come away with the win and we scored 3 tries to their zero.

I'm generally one not to blame a ref (it's usually a cop out to blame a ref for your teams poor performance)....but the guy at the weekend was so inconsistent. Apparently only his 8th game reffing at this level-it showed.

phog

Caranica wrote: »

Did he not have a bad day against Edinburgh last season? A game we really should have won and would have stopped us meeting in Leinster in the semi final?

That's harsh, Healy was year younger back then and we fielded a team with a lot less experience than Edinburgh did that evening, as an aside, it was also the evening that Edinburgh lifted the padding to prevent us scoring a try at the base of the posts.

kingofthekong

Caranica wrote: »

Did he not have a bad day against Edinburgh last season? A game we really should have won and would have stopped us meeting in Leinster in the semi final?

Not having a go at Healy, I'm a big fan. I'm just not sure I'd start him v Edinburgh, would rather bring him on at 50 minutes. I guess it will also depend on who starts at 9.

Losing one game against Edinburgh was the reason you met Leinster? or a season of average performances was the reason you met Leinster...and then lost to Leinster because your outhalf cant kick