Munster Team Talk Thread - Beirne After Reading

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122713667#Comment_122713667

Yeah, except for the fact that Sarries / Toulon never had anything close to 12/15 and 20/23 in their squad that they produced themselves.

It’s an absolutely stupid comparison - we have significantly more home produced players than Munster for example (in fact Munster’s best player came through Leinster’s academy, and so did your probable first and second choice props, your third choice 9, your first choice 13 etc).

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122713686#Comment_122713686

LeiLeinster have produced far more than toulon carries but have a budget that most likely have larg3st budget in Europe

Leinster should be producing more players than Munster even if both were working at best level. Leinster have far more schools with big budgets, more clubs as well and leinster are able to put more funding into those clubs as they don't need to support many of the schools in same way other provinces do.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122713694#Comment_122713694

Yeah, except they don’t, and no one has produced a modicum of evidence to suggest they do. The budgets and the playing squads for the French clubs are insane.

Just having schools and clubs isn’t a fraction of the battle of producing elite pro rugby players, if it was then England (with a school system and facilities that dwarves Leinster) would be dominating world rugby for the past 30 years.

Comparing the Leinster squad that beat Munster yesterday to the Toulon squads in particular that dominated Europe is a stupid and utterly disingenuous comparison.

This same ill-informed tripe arises every time Leinster beat Munster these days, by people who frankly should know a lot better.

Podge_irl

MOD: can we please not have this discussion here

Red Silurian

After last night's match the entire Munster team need to be replaced with a team from our schools senior cup.

Missing our own lineouts and lazy play is simply not acceptable in today's game at amateur level

Podge_irl

The lineout was terrible, but I'm not sure I'd categorise anything Munster did as lazy.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122714246#Comment_122714246

Lazy like not scrummaging properly, half arsed tackles, not getting onside fast enough, forward passing etc etc

Podge_irl

Munster got more penalties from the scrum than leinster did. That being said, the Leinster scrum is just better. It was not lack of effort.

I genuinely thought both sides were incredibly up for it. I'd question munster's execution and decision making far more than their effort. They frequently failed to recognise when there was quite a lot of space available to attack though it's worth noting the leinster scramble defence was very good.

Mind you. Execution and decision making is not an easy fix either.

Dubinusa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122713717#Comment_122713717

Ouch! Touche?

50HX

Home this afternoon from Dublin

Game put to bed after 15mins we just couldn't live with Leinster intensity in the first 20 odd mins. Need to watch it back

Farrell at centre did v well I thought & even since 1st game he has improved, crowley, beirne,coombes & haley nxt up

Lineout was shambolic, alot of gront row disruption with Injury/hia in the first 20mins...kinda threw us I thought

Leinster were the better side no argument there

Again we are a better 2nd half team & prob had more possession in 2nd half.

Our biggest issue seems to be when we get into opp 22 we execute v poorly & I don't know is it us forcing the play or in yesterday's case was leinsters line speed in defense(which brings its own opportunities)

It's still Oct so a bit of perspective is needed as well.

phog

When you play a team like Leinster you need the rub of the green, unfortunately for us it was Leinster that got the rub of the green and that along with their execution cost us. Once you're 21 down then your game plan changes.

When Rassie was heading back to SA I said the coach we'd miss most would be Nienaber, a world class D coach and it showed last night. I thought we played some great rugby but couldn't convert our scoring opportunities.

Despite the scoreline at the end I was happy with our overall performance, lineout still a concern but last night was probably one of the greatest tests it will face this season.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122712970#Comment_122712970

That is a straight up tactic i'm pretty sure. Ringrose had one of those with two hands as well where he did not really attempt the catch. Its smart.

I saw on twitter there was a 4/5 minute period around the 3rd leinster try where munster weren't allowed to make an HIA replacement.

Is that a fourth official mistake, or a munster one, or is it a law?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122716443#Comment_122716443

Or a fourth option..... The twitter account is wrong??

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122716490#Comment_122716490

i think they are right. I looked at the minute stamp on the stream and no one came on, and then the sub came on roughly 5 minutes later.

Its absolutely possible i missed something tho. You almost need to be in the stadium to count players.

pickarooney

Why did Leinster not bring Snyman back on when Baird went for a HIA instead of shuffling the entire team around?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122716490#Comment_122716490

It's probably down to the complexity of the HIA process. If they wanted Scannell to come back on, he'd have had to go through a lot of assessments - so when the doctor was needed to adjudicate on Barron, he was busy with Scannell.

Some people will just default to the conspiracy theory.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122716891#Comment_122716891

Occam's razor, that's most likely the case. Tangential, but I remember something not dissimilar with regards the TMO in an Aus game awhile back. TMO was reviewing a head-contact incident, so missed Nic White stumbling after another head-contact incident almost immediately after. It's hard to know how to solve it without having 2,3,4 doctors/TMO's.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122716891#Comment_122716891

They brought K Ryan on to make it 15 players. They wouldn't have had to wait on Scannell.

It was actually just a question of why it happened. Not a conspiracy theory.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122716944#Comment_122716944

I really don't think that could be it. You don't need a doctor to say a sub can just go on the field surely. If that was the case, there would be like a minute delay on every HIA sub.

I thought it might be a hooker thing. Like they needed a qualified hooker. But there wasn't a scrum and they didn't bring on a hooker later.

This might not be something that is able to be answered without talking to an actual real ref. I can't find a law that applies to it but there must be some reason.

RoscommonHero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122712954#Comment_122712954

The Ringrose one was worse than that, both arms above his head stretching to slap the ball down and Busby said it wasn't deliberate. One of umpteen decisions from him and his team that didn't favour Munster. Hard chasing down a 21 point deficit when the ref can't see any offences committed by the home team.

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122713667#Comment_122713667

63 players in Leinster squad (first and academy), 92% from Leinster. Sarries/Toulon my hole.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717040#Comment_122717040

Any offences apart from the 11 penalties he awarded against Leinster, presumably?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122713717#Comment_122713717

modicum of evidence lol

We know roughly how much the irfu funds each province. We know roughly how much centrally contracted players get paid. We know what the french cap is.

Anyone with half a brain can do that math and realize that leinster AT LEAST have a comparable salary budget to the top french teams.

That's also before the unknown of how much is spent on PONI players, and how much private spending.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717054#Comment_122717054

There is no effective difference between being able to keep a superstar squad because of money and buying one with money.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122716674#Comment_122716674

When Baird went for his HIA the game was already out of Munsters grasp… Why risk it, esepecially with such an injury prone player?

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717107#Comment_122717107

There absolutely is if you produce him.

FtD v2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122717078#Comment_122717078

The thing is you don't know any of this - you speculate, and you like to suggest you do, but you've been egregiously wrong in some of your pronouncements on this stuff on multiple occasions in the past.

The Toulon team of 2013-15 for example had Leigh Halfpenny, Drew Mitchell, Matt Giteau, Jonny Wilkinson, Juan Martin Hernandez, Mathieu Basteraud, Bryan Habana, Sebastien Tillous-Borde, Guilhem Guirado, Carl Hayman, Bakkies Botha, Ali Williams, Juan Smith, Steffon Armitage, Delon Armitage, Chris Masoe, Juan Martin Fernandez-Lobbe, Rudi Wulf, Freddie Michalak, Danie Roussouw, Martin Castrogiovanni, Maxime Mermoz, Alexis Palisson, Andrew Sheridan, Joe van Niekerk, Gethin Jenkins etc etc - not a single one of whom was produced by them, and every one was an elite international when signed by them, and therefore costing top dollar.

The notion that this is remotely comparable to a Leinster squad where exactly 5 players in the senior squad (42 players - that's 88%) aren't products of the Leinster academy is utterly ludicrous.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122714406#Comment_122714406

A decision was made to kick for 3 points from a difficult angle and then a minute later with a penalty in front of the posts the decision was to go to the corner - with a malfunctioning lineout. Crazy stuff altogether

Failing to recognise space and missing tackles is all part of a lack of effort in my books. It's the kind of stuff that's meant to get hammered into you in training!

phog

Mods, can we have our Munster thread back, please