ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

partyguinness

tretorn wrote: »

It isnt a PR stunt at all.

There are very serious concerns in the UK regarding immigration, we dont understand that here because we dont have huge numbers of Muslims and we havent had people slashed to death on O Connell bridge or had children blown to bits in the Point because some Muslim cleric thinks music is sinful.

I think I read somewhere that about one eighth of the population of London is Muslim now, you have entire schools who are teaching Muslim ideology alongside the prescribed curriculum and in some cases instead of the curriculum. You have schools entirely funded by the British Government following religious customs like complete segregation of children from the age of eight years, ie girls taught at that age that they are second class citizens.

The general public in Britain if asked would want this woman deprived of any opportunity to come back to the UK. the decision to deprive her of her citizenship has nothing to do with Brexit and nothing to do with her skin colour. She is a dangerous radicalised menace and the British public need to be protected from her, the publics rights to be protected from her and her ilk trump any rights she has to come back to the UK and if she ends up in Bangladesh it will be the most effective way of getting through to other Muslims, adapt to the British way of life or else take yourself off to a Muslim country where you can live your lives according to Muslim ideology, these are the choices you have and we have pandered to you at our cost for too long now.

I live in England and I work in area where a good 80% of the people I deal with are Asian. I had a lady in before me a few weeks ago and had no English-she has been living here over 30 years! A house up the road was raided as they were sending money to ISIS. A few local kids have fecked off to Syria via Turkey and interestingly some 'white' native converts.

Not a week goes by where stories of segregation in schools comes out- latest last week a particular Muslim school does not allow the boys and girls to eat together- boys first.

There are places where you may as well be in Cairo- I have been the only white guy in the entire place.

I see plenty of arranges marriages. Young wifes with kids where the father lives in Pakistan- she buys a house with aid of family and friends gets pregnant and then has him shipped over in a few years on a visa.

I have met doctors and educated professionals who are subject to an arranged marriage and go along with the culture.

I know a doctor who refused house insurance as it would be "Gods will" if the house burns down with wife and kids. I hope to fcuk I dont end up in A&E and see him coming to treat me. Is it God's will to let me die and not treat? I don't get that.

What irritates me is that 'Nigel' or 'Andrew' seem to blame it on the EU- it is not. This is called Karma for the Brits pissing all over South East Asia for centuries.

You want to see money laundering or the mass movement of hard currency? Check out any PIA flight sitting in a UK airport to Pakistan or India- it will be bursting at the seems with hard cash being taken over to lodge in Pakistani and Indian banks. Common knowledge.

Banning or focusing on this particular woman will not change anything. It's like Trump wanting to ban Mexicans to stop the illegal flow of drugs nonsense. Horse bolted and all that- this is just ill conceived optics. Remember the infant has UK citizenship also by descent.

partyguinness

tretorn wrote: »

The makers of the claddagh ring wont like this publicity.

Toyota don't seem to do too bad with all the jeeps used to ferry around dudes with RPGs around the middle east...


Claddagh ring sales plummet in Europe but to sky rocket in the middle east. Silver lining and all that I suppose.

timthumbni

GinAndBitter wrote: »

https://www.thesun.ie/news/3778254/isis-bride-shamima-begum-claddagh-ring/

She thinks it's unjust.

No wonder her Dutchman surrendered if Isis paired him with that mess. And they promised him 1000 stunning virgins...

jmayo

partyguinness wrote: »

Loving the way everyone piles in on a 19 year easy target but nothing being done about the preachers and hate peddlers in the Mosques. Should they be kicked out and to where? Where do you draw the line?

4

As someone living in Britain you must remember how long it took to get rif of the one eyed one armed hateful bast**, Abu Hamza al-Masri, that hung around Finsbury Park Mosque in London.
and the usual do gooders were fighting to prevent him from being kicked out lest he get his just deserts.

partyguinness wrote: »

Toyota don't seem to do too bad with all the jeeps used to ferry around dudes with RPGs around the middle east...


Claddagh ring sales plummet in Europe but to sky rocket in the middle east. Silver lining and all that I suppose.

Actually by some accounts the Americans did complain to Toyota, but here is the rub.

Some guy from Texas or one of the other good god fearin states noticed his old pickup being used by the nutjobs in somewhere like Iraq, Syria, Libya.
How it got from good old USA to them is one hell of a business story.

Grayson

tretorn wrote: »

The parents probably wouldnt have co operated with the Police anyway.

Muslims as a group dont intereact with general society and they would go to Imans with concerns rather than to the Police.

Its not like the school or Police would be dealing with receptive people.

And the police or counter terrorism police would have been accused of racial profiling if they had called personally to the parents, they couldnt win no matter what they did.

Well that's bollox. In that parliamentary report that someone mentioned earlier it specifically said that over 99% of muslims consider themselves both british and integrated. And remember the survey about radicalisation that was done a few years ago. people love to quote it because only a relatively small percentage of muslims would contact the police if they suspected someone of being radicalised. However when compared to a test group of non muslims that number was actually higher than non muslims. (the reporting of the survey also ignored that people had multiple choices such as approach the family, try to talk to the person about it etc. Still, it made a juicy daily mail headline by ignoring the context of the question)

overkill602

Grayson wrote: »

Did you even notice when I said i wasn't comparing.

And citizenship is a right. People have a right to irish citizenship if they meet certain criteria. And that citizenship can't be removed once they have it. the government can't just decide that you are no longer Irish.

same goes for the Uk. As someone who was born in the UK I have a right to citizenship. And that citizenship comes with certain rights. Removing those rights is not something that should be decided arbitrarily.

do you support isis?

partyguinness

jmayo wrote: »

4

Actually by some accounts the Americans did complain to Toyota, but here is the rub.

Some guy from Texas or one of the other good god fearin states noticed his old pickup being used by the nutjobs in somewhere like Iraq, Syria, Libya.
How it got from good old USA to them is one hell of a business story.

That's not such a surprise. A lot of second hand cars from western societies end up in Africa, Middle east etc. Same with clothes and other junk generally. When you see a kid in the background of some news report wearing a Messi top- it's a hand down from Europe- chucked into a charity bag.

Grayson

overkill602 wrote: »

do you support isis?

Yeah, I have a big ISIS flag behind my desk here. It raised some eyes but I told everyone it is the the flag of baghdad wanderers football club. Stupid infidels bought it.

tretorn

I suppose though she is the face of ingratitude for all that the UK has offered her.

What sort of a life would she have if she had stayed in Bangladesh.

It isnt just her, there are thousands and thousands of disaffected Muslims living all over Europe, they are blaming the countries they live in for all thats wrong with their lives but they dont want the alternative either, ie to move to a backward Muslim country.

I think Bangladesh have said she is no longer one of their citizens and they wont let her in either.

There is no way in hell the Netherlands will take her. The Muslims are causing quite a lot of problems in the Netherlands and right wing politicans are gaining ground there which is quite incredible in a country as tolerant as this.

I really wouldnt expect the Netherlands to take her if Britain refuse to.

shaunr68

end of the road wrote: »

the grand parents must be found suitible or not on their own merrits, not on the basis of religion.

Of course. They haven't exactly shown themselves to be ideal parents, so that's a start. Having your 15 year old daughter run off to become a terrorist is a bit of a red flag in terms of their parenting abilities. It isn't like running off to join the circus!

end of the road wrote: »

stipulating that a child can only be adopted by a secular family would quite likely constitute religious discrimination and rightly so.

Sadly true, though I stated what I would like to happen, I accept that it is rather unlikely.

Grayson

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/20/rights-of-shamima-begums-son-not-affected-says-javid

Shamima Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and there is “no question” of her being allowed into Bangladesh, the country’s ministry of foreign affairs has insisted, despite Britain’s move to strip the teenager of her UK citizenship.

“The government of Bangladesh is deeply concerned that [Begum] has been erroneously identified as a holder of dual citizenship,” Shahrial Alam, state minister of foreign affairs, said in a statement issued to the Guardian, adding that his government had learned of Britain’s move to cancel her citizenship rights from media reports.

“Bangladesh asserts that Ms Shamima Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen. She is a British citizen by birth and never applied for dual nationality with Bangladesh … There is no question of her being allowed to enter into Bangladesh.”

Since she has no other citizenship then the UK has broken international law when removing her citizenship. It's illegal to leave someone stateless.

Yurt2

Grayson wrote: »

Did you even notice when I said i wasn't comparing.

And citizenship is a right. People have a right to irish citizenship if they meet certain criteria. And that citizenship can't be removed once they have it. the government can't just decide that you are no longer Irish.

same goes for the Uk. As someone who was born in the UK I have a right to citizenship. And that citizenship comes with certain rights. Removing those rights is not something that should be decided arbitrarily.

Not so. In Ireland acquired citizenship (as opposed to citizenship derived from parentage) is granted at the pleasure of the Minister of Justice and can be revoked at his / her pleasure for seditious behaviour or a demonstrated lack of loyalty to the state. In fact he / she has the power to revoke an acquired citizenship if the individual has not excercised their citizenship by living outside the state for seven years or more. It can of course be legally challenged but his / her powers are likely sufficiently wide to revoke if a circumstance arose like this in Ireland.

end of the road

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

And if you get a copy of the birth certificates, you can easily see if any of them is this Shamima Begum. AFAIK, she was indeed born in Tower Hamlets and even if she wasn't, she was a British citizen either way. I don't see how it makes any difference to whether or not her citizenship can be revoked.

it may make a difference in terms of international law as british would be her primary nationality if she was born in britain. so even though her british citizenship has been removed, bangladeshi is only her secondary nationality.

timthumbni

Grayson wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/20/rights-of-shamima-begums-son-not-affected-says-javid



Since she has no other citizenship then the UK has broken international law when removing her citizenship. It's illegal to leave someone stateless.

I wonder if we in the UK give any money to Bangladesh in overseas aid. Very likely I suspect. If so I would be starting to pull the brakes on that.

partyguinness

I believe the Sajid Javid has made a bit of a dick head of himself here. Bowed to populist nonsense.

Sure taking away her citizenship sounds great and reeks of no nonsense toughness and Middle England will love it but it is illegal- Jesus Christ...a Human Rights undergraduate law student would know that.

tretorn

I dont think she was born in Bangladesh though this has been reported.

I read that her mother was born in Bangladesh.

I cant imagine how tough life must be for her now, a few days after childbirth and stuck in a camp with no family.

Oh well, its what she wanted and as she said going to Syria made her stronger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp7PEjNfZQY

Yurt2

partyguinness wrote: »

I believe the Sajid Javid has made a bit of a dick head of himself here. Bowed to populist nonsense.

Sure taking away her citizenship sounds great and reeks of no nonsense toughness and Middle England will love it but it is illegal- Jesus Christ...a Human Rights undergraduate law student would know that.

I wouldn't be so certain. On the face of it, she's entitled to assert her Bangladeshi nationality even if she hasn't done so already.

ohnonotgmail

Grayson wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/20/rights-of-shamima-begums-son-not-affected-says-javid



Since she has no other citizenship then the UK has broken international law when removing her citizenship. It's illegal to leave someone stateless.

she is a bangladeshi citizen by birth. She has up to the age of 21 to claim it.

Grayson

Yurt! wrote: »

I wouldn't be so certain. On the face of it, she's entitled to assert her Bangladeshi nationality even if she hasn't done so already.

It's illegal to leave someone stateless. She doesn't have bangladeshi citizenship. She might be entitled to apply but at the moment she has not got it. So she is stateless right now.

ohnonotgmail

Grayson wrote: »

It's illegal to leave someone stateless. She doesn't have bangladeshi citizenship. She might be entitled to apply but at the moment she has not got it. So she is stateless right now.

no she is a bangladeshi citizen by right as of now. and she will be until she is 21. she has up to the age of 21 to claim it.

Yurt2

Grayson wrote: »

It's illegal to leave someone stateless. She doesn't have bangladeshi citizenship. She might be entitled to apply but at the moment she has not got it. So she is stateless right now.

She is naturally born Bangladeshi, she hasn't asserted it (i.e she doesn't have a passport in hand) but it's a legal fact.

Same as an individual born to one or more Irish parents in New York. They are naturally born Irish and remain so, even though they may never assert it.

lainey_d_123

tretorn wrote: »

I suppose though she is the face of ingratitude for all that the UK has offered her.

What sort of a life would she have if she had stayed in Bangladesh.

It isnt just her, there are thousands and thousands of disaffected Muslims living all over Europe, they are blaming the countries they live in for all thats wrong with their lives but they dont want the alternative either, ie to move to a backward Muslim country.

I think Bangladesh have said she is no longer one of their citizens and they wont let her in either.

There is no way in hell the Netherlands will take her. The Muslims are causing quite a lot of problems in the Netherlands and right wing politicans are gaining ground there which is quite incredible in a country as tolerant as this.

I really wouldnt expect the Netherlands to take her if Britain refuse to.

This is what I noticed when I lived in London. The total ingratitude. I lived in Bethnal Green myself, among people who despised the West and yet weren't too proud to turn down their council flats, benefits and God knows what else. They didn't want to stay in their third world countries, but saw nothing wrong with despising the very country which took them in, educated them and gave them the chance at a good life. I felt like a real muppet sometimes, working long hours and paying a fortune to rent a sh1tty room while these people whinged that all they'd been given wasn't enough. Didn't see too many of them deciding to go back to Bangladesh, given how awful they thought Britain was. Funny that.

I see Ms Begum is yet another example of this sense of entitlement.

tretorn

Are you positive she was born in Bangladesh, as I said I think its her mother who was born there.

lainey_d_123

Grayson wrote: »

It's illegal to leave someone stateless. She doesn't have bangladeshi citizenship. She might be entitled to apply but at the moment she has not got it. So she is stateless right now.

It's automatic citizenship.

Boggles

Grayson wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/feb/20/rights-of-shamima-begums-son-not-affected-says-javid



Since she has no other citizenship then the UK has broken international law when removing her citizenship. It's illegal to leave someone stateless.

Oh Dear.

The wheels just came off the populist fun bus.

Yurt2

Boggles wrote: »

Oh Dear.

The wheels just came off the populist fun bus.

Obviously Ms Begum won't be asserting her Bangladeshi citizenship or traveling there any time soon, but I wonder would there be a convincing legal pretext to deny her entry or prevent her from claiming her passport if she tried to do so. Sounds like the Bangladeshi government are scrambling to wash their hands of trouble.

tretorn

tretorn wrote: »

Are you positive she was born in Bangladesh, as I said I think its her mother who was born there.

I think you're right, it's her mother who was born there.

Grayson

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

no she is a bangladeshi citizen by right as of now. and she will be until she is 21. she has up to the age of 21 to claim it.

Did you read the article I linked. She's not a citizen of there. She may be eligible to claim citizenship but she hasn't done that. At this moment in time she has no citizenship anywhere.

Therefore she is stateless. And the home secretary broke international law when he removed her UK citizenship

Gatling

Boggles wrote: »

Oh Dear.

The wheels just came off the populist fun bus.

Actually .

"Bangladeshi law includes a right of “citizenship by descent” to anyone who is born to a Bangladeshi parent"

"The commission found that Bangladeshi law required them to apply to retain their citizenship at 21"

Looks like she had 3 years to retain her Bangladesh citizenship

Grayson

Btw in googling I found this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharmeena_Begum

It's a separate woman with a similar name who went to ISIS from the same school.

I'm thinking maybe people are confusing the two people.