Landlord complaining

fifigogo

Hi there, we need some advice. we’re just about to move out of a rented apartment after a year. The landlord asked us to have the oven professionally cleaned so I said I would call the company, which I did, but they and others were charging €100 plus. Honestly we can’t afford it. I know to some €100 might not be much but we are both on low incomes and we’re moving out of Dublin because it’s too expensive and we simply don’t have €100 to spare. It’s not in the lease but he did mention it when we moved in and left a business card for us. Anyway I have cleaned the oven and hobs myself. It is very clean. It wasn’t that dirty to begin with but it’s free from food/grease etc. The landlord is now complaining that “it’s all he asks of his tenants”. He also then said that he was embarrassed about the mold on the windows when showing the apartment recently. The apartment wasn’t cleaned when we moved in, an admission from the landlord, but he said the oven was professionally cleaned and it was clean, as clean as it is now. It’s not in a worse state. The mold was there when we moved in and I had been cleaning it around the windows regularly with mold and mildew remover however it just keeps coming back. He sounds pretty annoyed with us over this and now I’m worried he will use this to hold back our deposit. I’ve always paid the rent promptly, never any complaints in fact he said he was sorry to lose us as tenants but now he’s changing his tune. Any advice?

Ps I’ll be sending him photos of the oven, hobs and windows later as they are all clean.

harr

fifigogo wrote: »

Hi there, we need some advice. we’re just about to move out of a rented apartment after a year. The landlord asked us to have the oven professionally cleaned so I said I would call the company, which I did, but they and others were charging €100 plus. Honestly we can’t afford it. I know to some €100 might not be much but we are both on low incomes and we’re moving out of Dublin because it’s too expensive and we simply don’t have €100 to spare. It’s not in the lease but he did mention it when we moved in and left a business card for us. Anyway I have cleaned the oven and hobs myself. It is very clean. It wasn’t that dirty to begin with but it’s free from food/grease etc. The landlord is now complaining that “it’s all he asks of his tenants”. He also then said that he was embarrassed about the mold on the windows when showing the apartment recently. The apartment wasn’t cleaned when we moved in, an admission from the landlord, but he said the oven was professionally cleaned and it was clean, as clean as it is now. It’s not in a worse state. The mold was there when we moved in and I had been cleaning it around the windows regularly with mold and mildew remover however it just keeps coming back. He sounds pretty annoyed with us over this and now I’m worried he will use this to hold back our deposit. I’ve always paid the rent promptly, never any complaints in fact he said he was sorry to lose us as tenants but now he’s changing his tune. Any advice?

Ps I’ll be sending him photos of the oven, hobs and windows later as they are all clean.[/quote

Sounds like he looking for an excuse to hold back the deposit. How clean does he want the oven ?once you have it in same condition as when you moved in I don’t see how he could have an issue and surely mould on windows is his problem not yours.
He probably doesn’t want to spend any money on the place when new tenants move in and is expecting you to give the place a deep clean.
Be firm with him and point out you are leaving the accommodation in same condition it was when you moved in.

fifigogo

harr wrote: »

fifigogo wrote: »

Hi there, we need some advice. we’re just about to move out of a rented apartment after a year. The landlord asked us to have the oven professionally cleaned so I said I would call the company, which I did, but they and others were charging €100 plus. Honestly we can’t afford it. I know to some €100 might not be much but we are both on low incomes and we’re moving out of Dublin because it’s too expensive and we simply don’t have €100 to spare. It’s not in the lease but he did mention it when we moved in and left a business card for us. Anyway I have cleaned the oven and hobs myself. It is very clean. It wasn’t that dirty to begin with but it’s free from food/grease etc. The landlord is now complaining that “it’s all he asks of his tenants”. He also then said that he was embarrassed about the mold on the windows when showing the apartment recently. The apartment wasn’t cleaned when we moved in, an admission from the landlord, but he said the oven was professionally cleaned and it was clean, as clean as it is now. It’s not in a worse state. The mold was there when we moved in and I had been cleaning it around the windows regularly with mold and mildew remover however it just keeps coming back. He sounds pretty annoyed with us over this and now I’m worried he will use this to hold back our deposit. I’ve always paid the rent promptly, never any complaints in fact he said he was sorry to lose us as tenants but now he’s changing his tune. Any advice?

Ps I’ll be sending him photos of the oven, hobs and windows later as they are all clean.[/quote

Sounds like he looking for an excuse to hold back the deposit. How clean does he want the oven ?once you have it in same condition as when you moved in I don’t see how he could have an issue and surely mould on windows is his problem not yours.
He probably doesn’t want to spend any money on the place when new tenants move in and is expecting you to give the place a deep clean.
Be firm with him and point out you are leaving the accommodation in same condition it was when you moved in.

shane b

If hes not happy with the oven I would recommend using Mr muscle oven cleaner. It comes in an aerosol container and very good. You would be surprised how much dirt it will take off.
I can see where the landlord is coming from as my mum has a rented house and the oven can be quite dirty and hard to clean especially if its anamel interior.
Around the element at the top, the trays and the glass tend to be forgotten.
It can be a time consuming job to get it properly clean.

fifigogo

The lease states ‘In same condition or better’. It’s in same condition. He did an inspection after 6 months, was our aging fixing the heating and then he was holding viewings for 5 hours and never said anything to us then.

whomitconcerns

Anywhere I rented a professional oven clean was required and done. Don't be surprised if he retains at least the 100 for that

Mango Joe

I have massive sympathy for this Landlord.

This is the toughest time in a Landlords whole life - There's a few hundred Euro waiting for him and all he has to do is cook up some grubby, scheming, maggoty reason to try and grab it from you and stuff it into his back pocket.

If his premises was adequately ventilated then the mould wouldn't have been an issue - I'd sue him over the health risk of mould spores.

fifigogo

shane b wrote: »

If hes not happy with the oven I would recommend using Mr muscle oven cleaner. It comes in an aerosol container and very good. You would be surprised how my h dirt it will take off.
I can see where the landlord is coming from as my mum has a rented house and the oven can be quite dirty and hard to clean especially if its anamel interior.
Around the element at the top, the trays and the glass tend to be forgotten.
It can be a time consuming job to get it properly clean.

I bought a special hob cleaner, cleaned around the elements and the trays. The glad on the doors too inside and out, Honestly it is very clean, you can see your reflection. Sure when he inspected the apartment last September, he commented on how clean the I kept the gas hobs.

fifigogo

whomitconcerns wrote: »

Anywhere I rented a professional oven clean was required and done. Don't be surprised if he retains at least the 100 for that

It doesn’t state that in the lease. This is our first time renting so believe me I have be so anal about maintaining the place because I don’t want to lose our deposit. We can’t afford to lose it so I’ve been so strict.

EdgeCase

There's absolutely no requirement for a "professional clean". Just clean the oven.
If it has self-cleaning liners don't use Mr Muscle on them. Just clean any glass parts with it (and wear good rubber gloves).

Take photos of everything showing how clean it is. If he refuses to return the deposit, you should go to the RTB.

fifigogo

EdgeCase wrote: »

There's absolutely no requirement for a "professional clean". Just clean the oven.
If it has self-cleaning liners don't use Mr Muscle on them. Just clean any glass parts with it (and wear good rubber gloves).

Take photos of everything showing how clean it is. If he refuses to return the deposit, you should go to the RTB.

We’re moving our stuff today so I’m going to take pictures of everything. Honestly we have been good tenants. I always paid the rent early and we’ve been very obliging except for this one thing. He asked us to move out a day early so the new tenants could move in so we said that was ok. I really am surprised at his response to us now,

Pawwed Rig

fifigogo wrote: »

The lease states ‘In same condition or better’..

This is a nonsense clause. The oven is obviously a year (or whatever length) older so by its nature cannot get better over time. There is a reason why we claim capital allowances on these things.

Does he think F&F are like wine?

El_Duderino 09

shane b wrote: »

If hes not happy with the oven I would recommend using Mr muscle oven cleaner. It comes in an aerosol container and very good. You would be surprised how my h dirt it will take off.
I can see where the landlord is coming from as my mum has a rented house and the oven can be quite dirty and hard to clean especially if its anamel interior.
Around the element at the top, the trays and the glass tend to be forgotten.
It can be a time consuming job to get it properly clean.

Those oven cleaners are great. Some come with a bag you put the oven trays and shelves to sit in with the cleaning solution.

I’d Aldo recommend a window scraper for the oven door glass.

I’m completely confident I could get the oven to professional level of clean with oven cleaner, scouring pads, rubber gloves a roll of kitchen towels and a window scraper.

fifigogo

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Those oven cleaners are great. Some come with a bag you put the oven trays and shelves to sit in with the cleaning solution.

I’d Aldo recommend a window scraper for the oven door glass.

I’m completely confident I could get the oven to professional level of clean with oven cleaner, scouring pads, rubber gloves a roll of kitchen towels and a window scraper.

Yes I bought the same but I didn’t need to use it on the trays because they weren’t that dirty. We have used our own oven dishes for cooking and never grilled greasy foods on the trays or metal grills.

Wabbit Ears

If his only major request is to have the oven professionally cleaned, have the oven professionally cleaned.

I get it's a hundred quid but not doing this will cost you that at least as he'll retain it in a deposit. Also, bleach the mold everywhere, even if it is just cosmetically cleaning it.


And finally no, you giving the over a bit of a clean is not the same thing. Every single time my tenants say something is cleaned perfectly it's just not. It never is.

cruizer101

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

If his only major request is to have the oven professionally cleaned, have the oven professionally cleaned.

I get it's a hundred quid but not doing this will cost you that at least as he'll retain it in a deposit. Also, bleach the mold everywhere, even if it is just cosmetically cleaning it.


And finally no, you giving the over a bit of a clean is not the same thing. Every single time my tenants say something is cleaned perfectly it's just not. It never is.

What can a "professional oven cleaner" do that a tenant can't.
Just because some tenants don't clean an oven properly doesn't mean it can't be done.

.......

cruizer101 wrote: »

What can a "professional oven cleaner" do that a tenant can't.

I presume they use chemicals that an ordinary person doesnt have access to.

I know when I paid for a professional cleaning of my ensuite he made it look brand new, something I had never been able to to - in 10 years.

oceanman

contact the rtb and ask where you stand?

EdgeCase

....... wrote: »

I presume they use chemicals that an ordinary person doesnt have access to.

I know when I paid for a professional cleaning of my ensuite he made it look brand new, something I had never been able to to - in 10 years.

There are no chemicals available to 'professional cleaners' that aren't available to anyone else.

If you want to clean an oven, if it has catalytic liners just put it on at a high temp for a few hours and it will remove the grease from the liners and then clean the oven doors and the oven floor with Mister Muscle, as per the instructions.

As long as the house is cleaned to a good level i.e. cleared out, kitchen thoroughly cleaned, everything hoovered, dust removed, surfaces polished, bathrooms thoroughly cleaned, hard floors washed, windows washed and so on its cleaned.

Whether that's done by the tenant or a cleaning service is totally irrelevant.

Some people may opt to hire a cleaning company because they've no time or they aren't particularly good at or hate cleaning like that. However, you cannot demand that a tenant hires in cleaners do to this. You also cannot expect items that have experienced several years of wear and tear to be miraculously returned to their new state.

Claw Hammer

The landlord is only entitled to make deductions from the deposit for unpaid rent or damage beyond wear and tear. If the landlord deducts the cost of a professional cleaning of a clean undamaged oven, he can be made return the cost plus damages for unjustly retaining a deposit.

.......

EdgeCase wrote: »

There are no chemicals available to 'professional cleaners' that aren't available to anyone else.

Go way out of that, theyd have trade cleaners stronger than stuff an ordinary joe could buy in a supermarket.

Bigmac1euro

....... wrote: »

Go way out of that, theyd have trade cleaners stronger than stuff an ordinary joe could buy in a supermarket.

Doubt it, the cleaners in my place of work- Company of 5000+ use industrial sized bottles of cleaning products but always the same brands you see on shelves in the supermarket, I know this because i access their storage rooms regularly.
I think you're just assuming here.
Are you a LL by any chance ?

Perifect

Don't pay for a professional cleaner and tell him you'll be in contact with your solicitors about this subject and the mould issue.

.......

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Doubt it, the cleaners in my place of work- Company of 5000+ use industrial sized bottles of cleaning products but always the same brands you see on shelves in the supermarket, I know this because i access their storage rooms regularly.
I think you're just assuming here.
Are you a LL by any chance ?

Cleaners in my place of work use big bottles of cleaning product with branding I have never seen in the supermarket. I know this because I access the storage room also.

I am assuming, based on the conversation I had with the professional cleaner in my ensuite, and my experience sharing storage rooms where I see brands I dont see in the supermarket.

I am also speaking from prior experience of being a cleaner where we definitely had stronger cleaning agents than an ordinary person had access to in a supermarket. More concentrated.

Bigmac1euro

....... wrote: »

Cleaners in my place of work use big bottles of cleaning product with branding I have never seen in the supermarket. I know this because I access the storage room also.

I am assuming, based on the conversation I had with the professional cleaner in my ensuite, and my experience sharing storage rooms where I see brands I dont see in the supermarket.

I am also speaking from prior experience of being a cleaner where we definitely had stronger cleaning agents than an ordinary person had access to in a supermarket. More concentrated.

So you're a cleaner now. ;)

Why didn't you say ?

TSQ

cruizer101 wrote: »

What can a "professional oven cleaner" do that a tenant can't.
Just because some tenants don't clean an oven properly doesn't mean it can't be done.

Professional oven and extractor hood cleaners use a high power steam cleaner along with solvents, so unless you go out and rent the equipment you will not get the same result. I had it done and believe me it is not the same as a hand clean / manual cleaning

EdgeCase

TSQ wrote: »

Professional oven and extractor hood cleaners use a high power steam cleaner along with solvents, so unless you go out and rent the equipment you will not get the same result. I had it done and believe me it is not the same as a hand clean / manual cleaning

None of which is a reasonable expectation when someone moves out of a tenancy. If you want to get your ovens steam cleaned, that's part of the overheads of being a landlord. Unless there's damage beyond what is normal wear and tear, you cannot expect a tenant to do that level of maintenance.

That is not routine cleaning.

I mean should they also have the central heating system power flushed and the drains jetted out?

There are some overheads involved in operating any business, including letting property.

The deposit is only there to deal with damage to the property or something being left in an unreasonable state after they leave. It's not there to pay for property maintenance.

Claw Hammer

EdgeCase wrote: »

None of which is a reasonable expectation when someone moves out of a tenancy. If you want to get your ovens steam cleaned, that's part of the overheads of being a landlord. Unless there's damage beyond what is normal wear and tear, you cannot expect a tenant to do that level of maintenance.

That is not routine cleaning.

I mean should they also have the central heating system power flushed and the drains jetted out?

There are some overheads involved in operating any business, including letting property.

The deposit is only there to deal with damage to the property or something being left in an unreasonable state after they leave. It's not there to pay for property maintenance.

A tenant should maintain the property and the furniture and fittings. They are the one using it.

fifigogo

Pics

fifigogo

fifigogo wrote: »

Pics

The oven

oceanman

fifigogo wrote: »

The oven

looks good.

Caranica

fifigogo wrote: »

The oven

Can you come and clean my oven please?

That's amazing!

Sleeper12

"he mentioned it when we moved in"

He made you aware at the start of the tenancy that he wanted it professionally cleaned. It's not like he's springing this on you as you prepare to move out. It's not a big ask imo

montzarella

Sleeper12 wrote: »

"he mentioned it when we moved in"

He made you aware at the start of the tenancy that he wanted it professionally cleaned. It's not like he's springing this on you as you prepare to move out. It's not a big ask imo

To be fair, thats spotless.... is it really going to look any different after a “professional” clean? Would the landlord even know the difference? Not sure I would, I’d be delighted to see it looking as is, that cannot be faulted.

Cheshire Cat

There's no way the landlord could tell that it wasn't professionally cleaned. Sounds like the oven cleaner who's card he gave to you is a mate of his and he is pushing business his way.
As it is not in the contract and he only mentioned it to you he has no leg to stand on.
He'd be laughed out of an RTB hearing if you showed the photos of the oven!

EdgeCase

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A tenant should maintain the property and the furniture and fittings. They are the one using it.

And that's precisely what they did!
It's utterly unreasonable to expect appliances to still be new after a year or more of use. They can be clean but they're not going to be "box fresh"

That oven is sparklingly clean. Nobody in their right mind could expect more tbh

agusta

fifigogo wrote: »

Hi there, we need some advice. we’re just about to move out of a rented apartment after a year. The landlord asked us to have the oven professionally cleaned so I said I would call the company, which I did, but they and others were charging €100 plus. Honestly we can’t afford it. I know to some €100 might not be much but we are both on low incomes and we’re moving out of Dublin because it’s too expensive and we simply don’t have €100 to spare. It’s not in the lease but he did mention it when we moved in and left a business card for us. Anyway I have cleaned the oven and hobs myself. It is very clean. It wasn’t that dirty to begin with but it’s free from food/grease etc. The landlord is now complaining that “it’s all he asks of his tenants”. He also then said that he was embarrassed about the mold on the windows when showing the apartment recently. The apartment wasn’t cleaned when we moved in, an admission from the landlord, but he said the oven was professionally cleaned and it was clean, as clean as it is now. It’s not in a worse state. The mold was there when we moved in and I had been cleaning it around the windows regularly with mold and mildew remover however it just keeps coming back. He sounds pretty annoyed with us over this and now I’m worried he will use this to hold back our deposit. I’ve always paid the rent promptly, never any complaints in fact he said he was sorry to lose us as tenants but now he’s changing his tune. Any advice?

Ps I’ll be sending him photos of the oven, hobs and windows later as they are all clean.

As a landlord myself, i think its absurd what the landlord is asking.I can clean an oven as good as any professional as im sure you can too.Yet we cant make an oven years old look brand new again.Ive never heard of a request like this before,its absurd

Sheep Shagger

The LL is trying to scam you out of money, keep those photos and if he tries anything go straight to the RTB and tell him you are doing so.

agusta

fifigogo wrote: »

The oven

Excellent,His professional "friend" cannot do better than this.its just not possible

Ps As a landlord myself,its a scam, A low mean one at that

Garibaldi?

Sounds like an ass****!

fifigogo

Sleeper12 wrote: »

"he mentioned it when we moved in"

He made you aware at the start of the tenancy that he wanted it professionally cleaned. It's not like he's springing this on you as you prepare to move out. It's not a big ask imo

No he didn’t spring it on us. It was a verbal request but can he retain that cost from my deposit if it’s not stated on the lease? The oven is very clean and it has been maintained. I posted photos.

fifigogo

The hobs. The hood was filthy when we moved in so I’ve just given that a wipe down. The first night we moved in, I scrubbed the place and I remember checking the oven and honestly I don’t think the previous tenants had it professionally cleaned but he says it was. As for the mould, I have bleached it and used the dettol stuff over the last year but it keeps coming back.

El_Duderino 09

That’s all you can do with the mould around the window. Keep it bleached and well ventilated. The mould spores are deeper in the wall than the bleach can penetrate so it will come back. Just kept on top of it.

Use the mild weather to leave the window open to air it out.

Mad_maxx

Mango Joe wrote: »

I have massive sympathy for this Landlord.

This is the toughest time in a Landlords whole life - There's a few hundred Euro waiting for him and all he has to do is cook up some grubby, scheming, maggoty reason to try and grab it from you and stuff it into his back pocket.

If his premises was adequately ventilated then the mould wouldn't have been an issue - I'd sue him over the health risk of mould spores.

If only tenants chose not to dry clothes on radiators, if they do that, good ventilation doesn't amount to a hill of beans

daithi7

Yes, the mould is your responsibility. things like opening windows, not drying laundry on rads, or in rooms, heating the place properly and airing it daily are all responsibilities of the tenant.

It sounds like you did a good job cleaning it up but looking at it from the Ll (or next tenant perspective) it needs to be left spotless!!

Good luck OP.

El_Duderino 09

daithi7 wrote: »

It sounds like you did a good job cleaning it up but looking at it from the Ll (or next tenant perspective) it needs to be left spotless!!

Good luck OP.

Surely it needs to be left as it was found (minus normal wear and tear). That’s not necessarily spotless.

Subutai

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Surely it needs to be left as it was found (minus normal wear and tear). That’s not necessarily spotless.

No requirement whatsoever to leave it spotless. Wear and tear is expected and some cleaning by the landlord between tenants is an expected cost of doing business.

Garibaldi?

I bet his own house isn't perfect!!

daithi7

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Surely it needs to be left as it was found (minus normal wear and tear). That’s not necessarily spotless.

Okay, really well cleaned => no reason for any argument.

Also, if you expect to get a place clean you should really expect to leave a place clean. Simples!! ��

El_Duderino 09

daithi7 wrote: »

Okay, really well cleaned => no reason for any argument.

Also, if you expect to get a place clean you should really expect to leave a place clean. Simples!! ��

Sure. Leaving a place clean is good practice and would make the world a better place. but it has no impact on how clean the next place will be.
The tenant needs to leave it as they found it minus normal wear and tear.

daithi7

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure. Leaving a place clean is good practice and would make the world a better place. but it has no impact on how clean the next place will be.... .

Of course, it can impact on how clean the next tenants get it in!! Particularly if they're moving in the next day, week or even month.