How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP

cunnifferous

This thread highlights the lasting generation chasm that a recession causes.

People who graduate during a recession earn on average a significantly less amount than those who graduate outside of a recession and this effect can last up to 20 years. Coupled with the fact that houses prices have returned to close to their peak (in the cities at least) at a much faster rate than wages have returned to their pre recession levels and you're left with a cohort of people who are materially less well off than their peers who were born +/- 5 years.

GreeBo

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Did you have a disability? A serious illness? The point is that luck plays a role, whether you realise it or not. And people like you who believe that everything they have is as a result of their own hard work never acknowledge that. You're the one with a chip on your shoulder. You think you're so much better than other people because you managed to buy a house, without acknowledging that others might not have even had the chances you had.

You have the aptitude and ability to work in the IT industry = luck
You were well enough to work at all = luck
for example

I'm aware that in many ways, I'm luckier than other people who have even less than me. Shame you can't do the same.

So you seriously think the system should be geared towards enabling the unlucky people to ignore the market and buy nice houses in nice areas for below market value?
Even though there are already hundreds of houses available for under 200k in the market and you just don't like their location?

Answer this one for me please.

Who exactly do you think should have to live in these houses that you are too good for?

Lefty Bicek

Yurt! wrote: »

His head would probably pop if you told him countries like Germany, Austria and Denmark have largely mitigated the problems of unaffordability through thoughtful policy and admitting that citizens need dignified places to live in urban areas without them overextending themselves on credit.

Renting, in other words.

The German government has discouraged ownership.

That doesn't seem to be the concern of the OP though, nor of Irish people in general.

I wonder does anyone here know what proportion of German thirty-somethings can afford a house ?

Eric Cartman

GreeBo wrote: »

So you seriously think the system should be geared towards enabling the unlucky people to ignore the market and buy nice houses in nice areas for below market value?
Even though there are already hundreds of houses available for under 200k in the market and you just don't like their location?

Answer this one for me please.

Who exactly do you think should have to live in these houses that you are too good for?

you go from one extreme to the other , if you want to put 'areas' on a scale of 1 to 10 , 1 being darndale and 10 being vico road in dalkey, all anyone in this thread has been saying is that somebody on 50k a year should probably be able to afford a house in an area thats a 3 or 4.

Those areas with the <200k houses are predominantly areas with high densities of social housing , its a sad day when the most you can achieve by working hard at building your career up to 50k a year is to live beside somebody who has never worked a day in their life. (nobody is saying all social housing tenants are like this but theres a fair whack of them in these areas)

the council mortgage scheme is available for single people on salaries up to 50k, what this now tells you is you may aswell go on the social housing list instead of save if the most you could hope to mortgage on your own gets you a house in the exact same areas that people on the housing list are even declining because of the social problems.

Nobody is asking for 50k a year to get you a house in dundrum, just somewhere that being stabbed isn't a concern you have to actively think about when going out at night.

GreeBo

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Jesus Christ. We're not talking about a nice house in a nice area. We're talking about anything at all. If jobs in your industry are in Dublin and you're an educated professional working in Dublin and you can't afford a modest one-bed apartment in any area where you aren't likely to get stabbed, there's a serious issue.

170+ places to live in dublin for under 200k.
They are the facts.
What's wrong with living in tallaght or blanch or clonsilla or clondalkin?

What's wrong with buying your first home there and upgrading when you can afford it? Yunno, like the rest of us. My first house was a shared 3 bed semi D kip in an estate beside the M50.

I didn't want to live there but that's what i could afford so rather than blame everyone else for my lack of money i sucked it up like an adult.

Same when i drove my 1998 banger that i bought for 300 quid until it literally fell apart in 2014. Is the car market dysfunctional too?

GreeBo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

you go from one extreme to the other , if you want to put 'areas' on a scale of 1 to 10 , 1 being darndale and 10 being vico road in dalkey, all anyone in this thread has been saying is that somebody on 50k a year should probably be able to afford a house in an area thats a 3 or 4.

Those areas with the <200k houses are predominantly areas with high densities of social housing , its a sad day when the most you can achieve by working hard at building your career up to 50k a year is to live beside somebody who has never worked a day in their life. (nobody is saying all social housing tenants are like this but theres a fair whack of them in these areas)

the council mortgage scheme is available for single people on salaries up to 50k, what this now tells you is you may aswell go on the social housing list instead of save if the most you could hope to mortgage on your own gets you a house in the exact same areas that people on the housing list are even declining because of the social problems.

Nobody is asking for 50k a year to get you a house in dundrum, just somewhere that being stabbed isn't a concern you have to actively think about when going out at night.

Sorry to burst your bubble but you are simply deluded if you think that 50k is some sort of significant income in the capital city.
Its not. Its probsbly significantly more if you lived in most other counties but its feck all of you want to lube in Dublin.

Go to paris and tell me what you get for 50k a year. You will be in a 25 storey block in some ****ty drug riddled, crime infested cesspit. If you think the locals will pick on you in clonsilla you ain't seen nothing yet.

VonLuck

GreeBo wrote: »

What's wrong with buying your first home there and upgrading when you can afford it? Yunno, like the rest of us.

Yes, because that never got anyone into trouble before...

martingriff

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

How do you know what I was thinking of? Pretty arrogant of you to tell me what I was thinking of. In fact, disability and illness were exactly what I was thinking of, as I suffer from both myself and they have hugely impacted on the type of job I'm able to do and things I'm able to manage.

I also have no problem with acknowledging the ways in which I'm lucky compared to others. It's called humility. Try it sometime.

Oh I do try it and do it how about you not assume like you want others to do. I have no problem knowing how lucky I am. I also have a disability and know how lucky I am with it. What I do have a problem with are people making excuses which are happening a lot in this thread of why not me I want this and this and this but I don't want to do this this or this. Life is hard and for some very hard but you have to make an effort for what you want they just do not fall in your lap

lainey_d_123

GreeBo wrote: »

So you seriously think the system should be geared towards enabling the unlucky people to ignore the market and buy nice houses in nice areas for below market value?
Even though there are already hundreds of houses available for under 200k in the market and you just don't like their location?

Answer this one for me please.

Who exactly do you think should have to live in these houses that you are too good for?

It's absolutely hilarious that you don't see the irony in asking me that, while you're saying that anyone who doesn't earn a high salary has to live outside Dublin. I don't think I'm 'too good' for them, I think I worked very hard not to have to live in a dangerous area, just like you did.

Someone in my parents' generation with a job like mine could have bought a modest flat for themselves no bother, even a nice area. Friends of mine living in Brussels and other cities have lovely flats for themselves, with average jobs. But you've swallowed the bullsh1t that only the highest earners have the right to live in a capital city.

limnam

GreeBo wrote: »

170+ places to live in dublin for under 200k.
They are the facts.
What's wrong with living in tallaght or blanch or clonsilla or clondalkin?

What's wrong with buying your first home there and upgrading when you can afford it? Yunno, like the rest of us. My first house was a shared 3 bed semi D kip in an estate beside the M50.

I didn't want to live there but that's what i could afford so rather than blame everyone else for my lack of money i sucked it up like an adult.

Same when i drove my 1998 banger that i bought for 300 quid until it literally fell apart in 2014. Is the car market dysfunctional too?

You can buy an apartment on mountjoy sq for 140k


bargain.

lainey_d_123

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Renting, in other words.

The German government has discouraged ownership.

That doesn't seem to be the concern of the OP though, nor of Irish people in general.

I wonder does anyone here know what proportion of German thirty-somethings can afford a house ?

Yes, and in Germany, rentals are good quality, affordable (on the whole) and secure. Tenancies can last years and years. If that were the case in Ireland, people wouldn't be as bothered about buying. When the alternative to buying a home is a series of sh1tty, badly maintained flats, having to move every year as the rent goes up, the landlord being able to kick you out with a few months' notice, maybe ending up miles away from the kids' schools, well, what choice do people have? I would certainly rather rent, but the state of the rental market in this country is horrific.

martingriff

VonLuck wrote: »

Yes, because that never got anyone into trouble before...

and going full circle that is why now we have deposits you have to reach for a mortgage and hope it puts sense in people not to be foolish

lainey_d_123

GreeBo wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble but you are simply deluded if you think that 50k is some sort of significant income in the capital city.
Its not. Its probsbly significantly more if you lived in most other counties but its feck all of you want to lube in Dublin.

Go to paris and tell me what you get for 50k a year. You will be in a 25 storey block in some ****ty drug riddled, crime infested cesspit. If you think the locals will pick on you in clonsilla you ain't seen nothing yet.

Dear God. 50k is well above the average income, and that's the bloody point! Someone on an ABOVE AVERAGE income cannot afford an AVERAGE home to live in. So you support a market which prices out not only poor people, but normal working people and allows foreign investors and buy to let landlords to drive the prices further and further up until you have a city full of b@nker w@nkers and Polish shop assistants living 10 to a room.

Nice person you sound.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

, I think I worked very hard not to have to live in a dangerous area,.

What do you consider a dangerous area?
Which areas in Dublin would you like to live?

Lefty Bicek

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Yes, and in Germany, rentals are good quality, affordable (on the whole) and secure. Tenancies can last years and years. If that were the case in Ireland, people wouldn't be as bothered about buying. When the alternative to buying a home is a series of sh1tty, badly maintained flats, having to move every year as the rent goes up, the landlord being able to kick you out with a few months' notice, maybe ending up miles away from the kids' schools, well, what choice do people have? I would certainly rather rent, but the state of the rental market in this country is horrific.

I have my doubts that the Irish attitude to property would be transformed so easily as by having decent rentals in place, in quick time. It goes a lot deeper, I think.

The German attitude has been heavily influenced to where it is today, by the catastrophe of 1945. There were no homes, there was rubble.

Different policy decisions from the British, who were in a similar boat, has led to very different outcomes as the decades have passed.

German governments haven't subsidised ownership via mortgage rebates.

German banks have been more risk-averse.

But absolutely agree with you that the renting environment in Ireland is a disgrace.

Cyrus

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Did you have a disability? A serious illness? The point is that luck plays a role, whether you realise it or not. And people like you who believe that everything they have is as a result of their own hard work never acknowledge that. You're the one with a chip on your shoulder. You think you're so much better than other people because you managed to buy a house, without acknowledging that others might not have even had the chances you had.

You have the aptitude and ability to work in the IT industry = luck
You were well enough to work at all = luck
for example

I'm aware that in many ways, I'm luckier than other people who have even less than me. Shame you can't do the same.

Sorry all the references to luck smack of self pity and blaming anyone but yourself for your situation

Ush1

Posters talk about snobbery and having compassion and in the next sentence say they wouldn't dream of living somewhere with working class people as you would instantly get stabbed.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Jesus Christ. We're not talking about a nice house in a nice area. We're talking about anything at all. If jobs in your industry are in Dublin and you're an educated professional working in Dublin and you can't afford a modest one-bed apartment in any area where you aren't likely to get stabbed, there's a serious issue.

Your issue is you're salary is slightly over minimum wage. There's folks with no qualifications out earning you driving delivery vans etc

lainey_d_123

Cyrus wrote: »

Sorry all the references to luck smack of self pity and blaming anyone but yourself for your situation

That's what all ableist people say.

lainey_d_123

Augeo wrote: »

Your issue is you're salary is slightly over minimum wage. There's folks with no qualifications out earning you driving delivery vans etc

Not talking about myself. I could be earning double and still nowhere near being able to buy. That's the point.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Not talking about myself. I could be earning double and still nowhere near being able to buy. That's the point.

Describe an acceptable abode and location along with a reasonable purchase price. For yourself.

lainey_d_123

bubblypop wrote: »

What do you consider a dangerous area?
Which areas in Dublin would you like to live?

Places with gangs of tracksuits intimidating random passersby, lots of drug related activity, things like that. I'd like to live anywhere reasonably safe and pleasant.

lainey_d_123

Augeo wrote: »

Describe an acceptable abode and location along with a reasonable purchase price. For yourself.

One bed flat, anywhere reasonably safe within a reasonable commute of central Dublin requiring a deposit I could save for within five years.

pwurple

DublinWriter wrote: »

I've said this before and I'll say it again. The ratio of the cost of a home to your combined wage has increased four-fold since the early 1970's.

congratulations, we agree. Standards are higher, housing is more expensive.

Forget the virtue signaling about not buying Starbucks or not having a Sky Sports subscription. The above is a major blocker to the average Joe or Josephine Irish in buying any house.

Who is this addressed towards? Putting words in my mouth? Making assumptions? This is literally the opposite of what I said repeatedly, which was that you can't save a damn thing until you earn it.

You've mentioned that you're in a situation where only one partner works outside the home. God forbid this happening to you, but imagine a place where *you're* the one at home. Your partner walks leaving you with your child. How many options do you think you have now?

just the one kid left is it? Random, but ok, I'll play. Why do you think this isn't thought out or planned for already? Two scenarios, one is death or serious illness. Insurance Policy is in place to mitigate that risk. Other situation is that they wander off with someone better looking. Not a problem, back comes an au pair. Will work out cheaper anyway.

You're down to your council office. All bets are off regarding "fatfire" or "slimfire" investments. You're now basically a ward of the state. Welcome to modern Ireland. It doesn't matter what your BSc was in, you're now a state dependant.

No, with planning, and forethought, I should have protected my family from this. Delightful to see you think financial education is to be scoffed at. Burn many books in your spare time?

Don't be smug, don't judge others, lest you want to be judged.

Laughing. Isn't calling me smug judging me? This whole thread is people judging eachother, and calling eachother names for doing so.

Highly enjoyable.

lainey_d_123

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

One bed flat, anywhere reasonably safe within a reasonable commute of central Dublin requiring a deposit I could save for within five years.

Could you state a purchase price please.

milhous

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Dear God. 50k is well above the average income, and that's the bloody point! Someone on an ABOVE AVERAGE income cannot afford an AVERAGE home to live in. So you support a market which prices out not only poor people, but normal working people and allows foreign investors and buy to let landlords to drive the prices further and further up until you have a city full of b@nker w@nkers and Polish shop assistants living 10 to a room.

Nice person you sound.

50k and above probably wouldnt equate to banker w@nkers tbf.
I dont mind giving out about the supply and demand, contributing to the build up not out idea. Maybe some investment in infrastructure so the suburbs are more appealing. But just calling everyone who earns over 50k w@nkers just because you're not earning that. Like they're a different disgusting bread or some such, ridiculous.

Also people keep referring to the average national wage and then city centre prices,you have to look at the average city centre wage and the average city centre price to compare.

If you're earning sub 40k in Dublin, and it's a long term thing; not just your foot on the career ladder, and you're commuting for 1.5hours each way or are living on a bunk bed maybe it's time to reevaluate if Dublin is the place for you. If it's a career step, it'll prob be worth it, try to be frugal and hopefully by next recession you'll be in a gd place to buy.

No-one has all the answers for all the situations, ppl just gotta do what's right for them. I'm sure if people put up specifics they'd get advice re jobs, careers, 5/10 year plans, savings etc.

If I was a single 30 something year old, it'd be Sydney I'd be going to, not Dublin. And I doubt you'd get far over there on 50k either...

" a city full of b@nker w@nkers and Polish shop assistants living 10 to a room"

....... the shop assistants earn almost as much as you BTW. You have awful views...... you consider yourself some kind of professional too, unreal.

realitykeeper

1) Try to get free digs e.g. caretaker or a job on a ship.
2) Save what you can and buy gold.
3) Wait for the economy to crash and watch the house prices fall as people default.
4) Storm Leinster House if the government attempt to stop house prices falling further e.g. by guaranteeing new buyers against negative equity. You don`t want them to do that because that kind of manipulation would cause house prices bottom out prematurely. You want house prices to keep falling. Eventually, house prices will fall to their natural base value if the government does not intefere like they did last time the property market crashed.
5) Then sell your gold and you should have enough to buy a modest house outright. Avoid borrowing.

milhous

realitykeeper wrote: »

1) Try to get free digs e.g. caretaker or a job on a ship.
2) Save what you can and buy gold.
3) Wait for the economy to crash and watch the house prices fall as people default.
4) Storm Leinster House if the government attempt to stop house prices falling further by guaranteeing new buyers against negative equity. Eventually, house prices will fall to their natural base value if the government does not intefere.
5) Then sell your gold and you should have enough to buy a modest house outright. Avoid borrowing.

A nice gold bar for 450k.. Wait.. I'll have to start saving

eviltwin

Ush1 wrote: »

Posters talk about snobbery and having compassion and in the next sentence say they wouldn't dream of living somewhere with working class people as you would instantly get stabbed.

That's it isnt it? When people say they can't afford a house what they really mean is they can't afford the kind of house they want in an area they want to live in.