End automatic citizenship for Irish Born children

StereoSound

I agree with this....

https://www.thejournal.ie/citizenship-rights-irish-born-children-4475530-Feb2019/?amp=1

bigpink

StereoSound wrote: »

I agree with this....

https://www.thejournal.ie/citizenship-rights-irish-born-children-4475530-Feb2019/?amp=1

Me too huge numbers of non Eu Nationals here not intergrating or even legal

mikeecho

I think a parent (mother) should be a registered resident for 10 months before any offspring are eligible for citizenship.

But that's just me being a "racist"

PhoenixParker

There hasnt been automatic citizenship for Irish born children since 2005.

99% of that article is a discussion of the pre-referendum situation. The rest is about the real impact of that referendum - a 9 year old who's been here all his life being deported.

Tell me how

StereoSound wrote: »

I agree with this....

https://www.thejournal.ie/citizenship-rights-irish-born-children-4475530-Feb2019/?amp=1

You'll be delighted with the news in 2004 when you get as far as it.

suicide_circus

PhoenixParker wrote: »

There hasnt been automatic citizenship for Irish born children since 2005.

99% of that article is a discussion of the pre-referendum situation. The rest is about the real impact of that referendum - a 9 year old who's been here all his life being deported.

sounds like his parents dropped the ball on that one

orourkeda1977

Have a **** instead.

topper75

PhoenixParker wrote: »

There hasnt been automatic citizenship for Irish born children since 2005.

99% of that article is a discussion of the pre-referendum situation. The rest is about the real impact of that referendum - a 9 year old who's been here all his life being deported.

Why are The Journal reaching back 15 years into the past for 'news'.

That is a solved problem. (thanks McD)

Fr_Dougal

topper75 wrote: »

Why are The Journal reaching back 15 years into the past for 'news'.

That is a solved problem. (thanks McD)

Because The Journal is a piece of shit and their ‘journalists’ should be ashamed to call themselves journalists, or work for such a piece of crap.

Grayson

bigpink wrote: »

Me too huge numbers of non Eu Nationals here not interesting or even legal

Didn't realise scintillating conversation was a prerequisite for citizenship.

bnt

TheJournal.ie wrote:

In 2004, the government held a referendum to end automatic citizenship rights to anyone born in Ireland, a decision that has grown increasingly controversial in recent months.

It has? Maybe to the "activists" looking at the case. Oh, and never mind that the kid in question received assurances that he would not be sent to China three months ago:

Simon Harris TD, Health Minister wrote:

I’ve just got some good news, very recently from the Department of Justice, which I’ve conveyed to Eric’s family, that there is no imminent threat of deportation. That’s all I ever called for, that’s all Eric’s family ever asked for, was an opportunity for a humanitarian review of the case to take place. The idea that a nine-year-old boy who is as much from Wicklow as I am, as much from Ireland as I am would be told that he is “going back” to China, a country he had never been to, was simply ludicrous.

If the parents are entitled to live here, why would their son not be?

bnt

bnt wrote: »

It has? Maybe to the "activists" looking at the case. Oh, and never mind that the kid in question received assurances that he would not be sent to China three months ago:

If the parents are entitled to live here, why would their son not be?

The mother was an illegal over here and was ordered to go home I believe 3 times by the courts and got pregnant over here and is now hiding behind the child.... she should’ve been gone after the first appeal ...why it took 10 years to try to deport her is beyond me

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

StereoSound wrote: »

I agree with this....

https://www.thejournal.ie/citizenship-rights-irish-born-children-4475530-Feb2019/?amp=1

Wouldn't that be all of them?!

goose2005

i think we should make gay marriage legal

Trigger Happy

goose2005 wrote: »

i think we should make gay marriage legal

Bring in divorce first.

BrokenArrows

Thea Rancid Gent wrote: »

The mother was an illegal over here and was ordered to go home I believe 3 times by the courts and got pregnant over here and is now hiding behind the child.... she should’ve been gone after the first appeal ...why it took 10 years to try to deport her is beyond me

It sucks for the kid. But that's the mother's problem as she raised a child in a country she knew would eventually deport her.

Trigger Happy

OSI wrote: »

We'll have to declare Independence first

...from the high king o’connor?

Odhinn

goose2005 wrote: »

i think we should make gay marriage legal

We'd have to get the gay sex legal first.

BrokenArrows

BrokenArrows wrote: »

It sucks for the kid. But that's the mother's problem as she raised a child in a country she knew would eventually deport her.

Well the law is to prevent anchor kids.... the option I’d give is the child can come over at 18 and live as he’s a citizen.... I don’t think family should gain it if they have a kid over herr

James Brown

If you're born in Ireland you're Irish. You don't have to love cabbage.
Unless anyone wan't to turf Leo out, then I might be prone to a change of heart.

Varik

Thea Rancid Gent wrote: »

Well the law is to prevent anchor kids.... the option I’d give is the child can come over at 18 and live as he’s a citizen.... I don’t think family should gain it if they have a kid over herr

He's not a citizen, neither of them are.

BeerWolf

Anchor babies ahoy!

James Brown

BeerWolf wrote: »

Anchor babies ahoy!

Lock her up!

Robert Wolfe

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If you're born in Ireland you're Irish. You don't have to love cabbage.
Unless anyone wan't to turf Leo out, then I might be prone to a change of heart.

No. After 2005 you are only automatically entitled to citizenship if you have an Irish born parent.

Arghus

If you're born here, you should be entitled to be a citizen.

Anything else is a disgrace.

Gatling

Arghus wrote: »

If you're born here, you should be entitled to be a citizen.

Don't agree , especially when it's been abused by many claiming asylum with a sob story .

It should be earned and not given out willy nilly

Robert Wolfe

Arghus wrote: »

If you're born here, you should be entitled to be a citizen.

Anything else is a disgrace.

Why? We'd be the only country in Europe to allow that.

Arghus

Gatling wrote: »

Don't agree , especially when it's been abused by many claiming asylum with a sob story .

It should be earned and not given out willy nilly

How does one earn it? Drip infusions of TK red lemonade and a steady diet of spuds for the first three years?

Robert Wolfe

Arghus wrote: »

How does one earn it? Drip infusions of TK red lemonade and a steady diet of spuds for the first three years?

Naturalization is how you do it. Why should Ireland be the only country in Europe to allow anchor babies?

Arghus

I don't really care what other countries in Europe do to be honest.

Gatling

Arghus wrote: »

How does one earn it? Drip infusions of TK red lemonade and a steady diet of spuds for the first three years?

Bring job ,create jobs, bring large investments to the country that benefit us as a whole.

Not arrive tell a load of lies and have a baby

Robert Wolfe

Arghus wrote: »

I don't really care what other countries in Europe do to be honest.

The only reason we had birthright citizenship was so people from the North would not be excluded from citizenship in the Republic, not so that Africans could come here to live on the dole.

80% of the population voted to abolish it. Foreigners who really want irish citizenship can still get it, through naturalisation.

Guy:Incognito

Arghus wrote: »

I don't really care what other countries in Europe do to be honest.

So give reasons why it should be the way you want then.

Yurt2

There is only one article about this (see link), but word has it that the mother of the child in Bray illegally obtained an Irish passport for him. If it's true(and it hasn't been refuted in any other media outlet), then I have very little sympathy for the point of view that the mother should be allowed to stay in the country. Very sad for the child, but she's the one playing fast and loose with the law - and passport fraud should be taken extremely seriously. I can't think of a country that wouldn't come down hard on an individual undermining the integrity of the national passport.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bray-schoolboy-fighting-deportation-to-china-had-fraudulent-irish-passport-2lxd8kl20

Arghus

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So give reasons why it should be the way you want then.

If you were born here, you've "earned" it. You've got to be a citizen of somewhere and I'd rather live in a state that treated every newborn born here equally and with fairness and at least aspired to that basic level of equality for all.

Robert Wolfe

Arghus wrote: »

If you were born here, you've "earned" it. You've got to be a citizen of somewhere and I'd rather live in a state that treated every newborn born here equally and with fairness and at least aspired to that basic level of equality for all.

Bleeding heart rubbish.

RobbingBandit

Wouldn't grant citizenship to anybody other that it being symbolic no rights to be giving access to services and other rights without looking after native Irish we are and have been for far too long being taken advantage the land of 100,000 welcomes I think we have by and far exceeded that a very long time ago. Try being a sick irish adult living alone and needing help or access to social services I've never had so much difficulty in my life and I've been homeless. No more helping the rest of the world look after our own.

Arghus

Robert Wolfe wrote: »

Bleeding heart rubbish.

100% - but I still believe it.

Yurt2

It has become something of an article of faith for those on the political left that all immigration, no matter what its character,is 'good'. This despite the fact that mass low-skilled labour results in downward pressure on wages for those in the lower social economic strata. No economist would seriously dispute this. Yes, headline GDP may go up a per cent or so, but there are serious ramifications for wages, social services, access to housing, pressure on the health system, education system etc.

The 'gain' in GDP with this type of immigration is overwhelmingly eaten up by subway franchise owners, cleaning companies, multinational retail outlets, landlords and so on. The ordinary worker doesn't see the benefits for the most part, and in many ways, they lose out.

There was a rather curious report from IBEC from I think last year, where they made the argument that the 30k salary requirement for non-EEA nationals to get a work permit was 'too high'. I nearly spat out my cornflakes when I read it. Fact is, business interests, want to import an underclass and pay them undignified wages to prop up ailing and unproductive businesses. The state and middle earning taxpayers can mop up any problems that ensue. And strangely, the political left is doing the agitating and lobbying for them. Go figure.

The refusal of the modern left to look the working classes and the coping classes in the eye over the past couple of decades has been their major failing. And they wonder why populists are on the rise across the developed world.

Auguste Comte

Yurt! wrote: »

It has become something of an article of faith for those on the political left that all immigration, no matter what its character,is 'good'.

Can you quote a couple of posts that back up this assertion that "the left" think all immigration, no matter what its character,is 'good'?

Stephen15

Ireland and Europe as a whole needs an Australian style immigration system. If we had one we wouldn't have this problem as migrants wouldn't come here in the first place to give birth.

4068ac1elhodqr

Yurt! wrote: »

The 'gain' in GDP with this type of immigration is overwhelmingly eaten up by subway franchise owners, cleaning companies, multinational retail outlets, landlords and so on. The ordinary worker doesn't see the benefits for the most part, and in many ways, they lose out.

Also large coffee chains, who are tax-shy at best.

Economists also warn that all these 'low-skilled' roles will all become redundant anyway thanks to automation. upto 50% off all roles will simply vanish by 2030, the low-skilled ones at highest risk.

RiderOnTheStorm

If you are born in a stable, it doesnt make you a horse.

mcmoustache

Arghus wrote: »

If you were born here, you've "earned" it. You've got to be a citizen of somewhere and I'd rather live in a state that treated every newborn born here equally and with fairness and at least aspired to that basic level of equality for all.

I appreciate your position but granting citizenship at birth creates an incentive to have an anchor baby since you can't realistically be deported if your child is Irish. Not only that, but when our country is one of the few that do this, it encourages immigrants and refugees to select Ireland over other countries. That's the reason that the law was changed in the first place.

1874

Arghus wrote: »

I don't really care what other countries in Europe do to be honest.

Well off to the UK or whats left of it for you so,

Arghus wrote: »

If you were born here, you've "earned" it. You've got to be a citizen of somewhere and I'd rather live in a state that treated every newborn born here equally and with fairness and at least aspired to that basic level of equality for all.

earned it? how? this idea of popping a sprog out on Irish soil being like some kind of touchdown for the life lottery, where's the sense?

Anyway, as nice (pie in the sky) as those ideals of equality of yours are are, you're in the wrong country for treatment of equality for every newborn and all that fairness stuff, there are no doubt a lot of significant advantages being born here over the majority of other countries, but at what point is there when it might be too much, too far? maybe when the outcome of it land on your doorstep I think, might change your tune then.

I change my mind, its not the UK you need, I dont know when the next flight to Shangri la is,
Your view, as nice as it is, does not take account of reality and people will abuse a system that leaves itself open to be deceived or manipulated.

Danzy

McDowell's only redeeming act for. His time in Govt.

Stephen15

Stephen15 wrote: »

Ireland and Europe as a whole needs an Australian style immigration system. If we had one we wouldn't have this problem as migrants wouldn't come here in the first place to give birth.

What problem so we have exactly?

CrankyHaus

80% of Irish voters supported this amendment. It's fascinating, though sinister, to see the PR campaign being waged upon it to soften up the populace for a reversal of its will.

For instance RTE Radio had a program on this topic before Christmas. It was incredibly one-sided and lazily made. It even included a direct falsehood, where the narrator described the subject as having lived in Ireland her whole life, moments after the subject herself described coming here and remaining illegally as a child.

Yurt2

bubblypop wrote: »

What problem so we have exactly?

We have a problem of the left now agitating for the constitution to be changed off the back of a 'hard case' in Bray. What's being ignored is that the mother broke the law and committed passport fraud, and that's why she got her marching orders. Credit to the Times journalist for doing a bit of digging on this case.

The irony being, if she kept her head down and didn't go off the reservation trying to fool the system, she would have got Irish citizenship for herself and her son. It's been known for a while now in legal circles that as long as people don't come to the attention of the Gardai, after a period of time undocumented folks get naturalised on the quiet. It's known as 'the unofficial official policy' in the DOJ (or something to that effect).

The reintroduction of jus soli citizenship in Ireland would inevitably result in a marked increase in birth tourism and a scramble by developing world folks to get here by any means to secure an EU passport for their child and anchor themselves in Europe.

speedboatchase

It would take under current EU laws, at a minimum, five years for my non-EAA wife to become an Irish citizen. Yet 80% of people believe that those who aren't even legally in the state can create a legal Irish citizen?

Hotblack Desiato

Arghus wrote: »

If you were born here, you've "earned" it. You've got to be a citizen of somewhere and I'd rather live in a state that treated every newborn born here equally and with fairness and at least aspired to that basic level of equality for all.

You earn nothing by virtue of where you are born, it's nothing to do with you. If you're born on a plane should that put you top of the list for a pilot job 20 years later?

I took the ferry between here and the UK a good few times in the late 90s/early 00s, amazing the number of 7/8/9 months pregnant women on them - but only in the coming into Ireland direction. Odd that :rolleyes:

Our country was being played like a fiddle and we rightly put a stop to it. Of course the direct provision system is still full of absoloute pisstakers, but that's another story.

I agree with the slogan "End Direct Provision" however - rapid decisions and rapid deportations will soon put an end to it...