ESB eCars

KCross

MJohnston wrote: »

Here's the thing about front-facing ports — you can still reach them with a traditionally laid out petrol pump-style charger placement. But it's a lot more difficult to reach back-right or back-left ports with a charger placed at the front of a parking space.

It's truly idiotic that ESB keep placing their charging stations like this.

Not just eCars though, Telsa and Ionity are installing their rapids the same way in this country.

Its not just the rapid providers that are at fault here... its the whole industry.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

Etron has one DC port, which is too far back from the front and too far forward from the back.


The two AC ports work well as an idea.

Its a pity they didnt put the DC in both ports too. That must be technically more difficult or something.

Orebro

unkel wrote: »

I only hope you are joking

Tesla buyers are so backwards that you have to make the car fit to whatever things they are used to from their previous cars? Maybe Musk should forget about self driving and concentrate on putting in more cassette players then

No of course I'm not saying Tesla buyers are backwards, we all know its quite the opposite - what I'm saying is that they need to appeal to the American mass market, not the unkels of this world who get it. That means when it comes to styling and things like charge ports they need to stay pretty conservative and not make it look like the cars are some odd ball thing that people wouldn't buy - once you have them in your cars you can fling autopilot and all the toys at them. You're trying to appeal to the Toyota Camry, Ford F150 market segments.

But back to your point - why would the front of the car not be the optimal place to put a charge port? For home the front is definitely best, front better for on street charging (as you can park in the direction you're travelling in then instead of sometimes having to get the car facing the other way), and I can see it being best for rapids too?

slave1

No just eCars, I used EasyGo yesterday, the stall to the left was taken with a model 3 and I did my absolute best to get as close as possible to the charger on the right but with the charge port of the S on the rear left and the CCS cable on the opposite side of the charger I had to stretch to the limit to get it connected, not a mm to spare!

markpb

Orebro wrote: »

But back to your point - why would the front of the car not be the optimal place to put a charge port? For home the front is definitely best, front better for on street charging (as you can park in the direction you're travelling in then instead of sometimes having to get the car facing the other way), and I can see it being best for rapids too?

For perpendicular parking spaces (including most homes), front-facing is only better if you drive in and reverse out. Reversing out of driveways and parking spaces should never be encouraged, it puts pedestrians (especially children) and cyclists at risk. Locating it at near the rear means you can reverse in, charge and then safely drive out.

slave1 wrote: »

No just eCars, I used EasyGo yesterday, the stall to the left was taken with a model 3 and I did my absolute best to get as close as possible to the charger on the right but with the charge port of the S on the rear left and the CCS cable on the opposite side of the charger I had to stretch to the limit to get it connected, not a mm to spare!

I had the same problem at Circle K Dublin Airport. The forward space is a pain to get into because of the concrete plinth and the cable is barely long enough to reach from the unit around the back and side of my car. The rear space is completely unusable unless you U-turn in a one-way road and park facing the wrong way. I know getting FCPs installed isn't easy and anywhere is better than no-where but this site is a complete pain.

innrain

I knew Kerry is a black spot for the EVs but didn't know it is so grey

slave1

markpb wrote: »

I had the same problem at Circle K Dublin Airport. The forward space is a pain to get into because of the concrete plinth and the cable is barely long enough to reach from the unit around the back and side of my car. The rear space is completely unusable unless you U-turn in a one-way road and park facing the wrong way. I know getting FCPs installed isn't easy and anywhere is better than no-where but this site is a complete pain.

I trump both our examples with the new EasyGo in Edgeworthstown.
It's on a public path facing the main street (not an issue) but if you park to the right of it you are occupying a disabled parking spot and if you park to the left you are blocking a gated entrance.
Literally impossible to (legally/morally) park at it

Krusty_Clown

innrain wrote: »

I knew Kerry is a black spot for the EVs but didn't know it is so grey

The grey markers are pretty much private hotels. There's nobody on the Fast chargers, or the 22kw chargers in Glebe Public car park. Am heading that way next week and will be hoping to occupy one of those spots!

MJohnston

New ESB AC (up to 22kW) pricing from August 10th:
26.8c per kWh on PAYG
23c per kWh on the subscription plan

Royale with Cheese

Taking a trip to Westport that weekend, driving back to Dublin on the 10th. Will fill up the battery again on the evening of the 9th for one last freeloading roadtrip.

Black_Knight

MJohnston wrote: »

New ESB AC (up to 22kW) pricing from August 10th:
26.8c per kWh on PAYG
23c per kWh on the subscription plan

And none of ye believed me.

MJohnston

Here's a weird thing - the email from ESB says that the pricing we've had up to now is for >44kW chargers. And that this new pricing will apply to "up to 22kW" chargers.

So what about AC43?

Gumbo

Black_Knight wrote: »

And none of ye believed me.

Just got the email now.
This will be the death of the AC points in general.

Paying for charging on top of paying for parking in Dublin means they won’t be used at all. Financially not worth it.

Black_Knight

MJohnston wrote: »

Here's a weird thing - the email from ESB says that the pricing we've had up to now is for >44kW chargers. And that this new pricing will apply to "up to 22kW" chargers.

So what about AC43?

Go by what the app says I guess, but no doubt the cheaper rate will only be for the "bring your own cable" chargers. 43AC will certainly be the more expensive rate.

Black_Knight

Gumbo wrote: »

Just got the email now.
This will be the death of the AC points in general.

Paying for charging on top of paying for parking in Dublin means they won’t be used at all. Financially not worth it.

Correct, but those who must, will. So it's a win for people who (in the example) travel to Dublin and need to charge their car. Free fuel was always going to be abused.

Mickeroo

I wonder where Mr i-Pace in my locality is going to live now. He used to live at the rapid by McDonalds until they started charging for those, since then he's been forced into a nomadic existence of moving between the two regular chargers in town. Don't ESB know there's a homeless crisis in this country godammit :pac:

slave1

MJohnston wrote: »

New ESB AC (up to 22kW) pricing from August 10th:
26.8c per kWh on PAYG
23c per kWh on the subscription plan

Think they need to price slow charging much closer to day time domestic rates.
If the rationale for this pricing is to support further investment (which they state is the reason) then they are going to lose out.
I believe destination charging at day time rates will encourage use of these slow chargers but at that price folk will tend to just rapid or do it at home.
Pricing should be an incentive to use not disincentive IMHO.
Time will tell, not that we will be privy to their scenario modelling I assume they underwent.

ELM327

43AC is the same as the DC charger rate.
Can see a lot of zoes using the 22kW SCPs now.


23c is not bad tbh. No time limits I presume (havent received the email), and only 6c over base day rate

slave1

Currently no time limits mentioned in the email but may change in the future.
I'm glad, takes the stress out of the big battery guys charging on those brand spanking new, state of the art, ultra reliable, modern 2kW charger "upgrade"

KCross

MJohnston wrote: »

New ESB AC (up to 22kW) pricing from August 10th:
26.8c per kWh on PAYG
23c per kWh on the subscription plan

It had to be above the standard home day rate to stop freeloaders and that is typically around 20c before discounts.... so 23c seems reasonable on that basis.

It will certainly free them up for people who need them rather than locals who just dont want to pay for a charge point or want free electricity.

The glory days of cheap charging are now over.

blue chuzzle

how can they think its ok to charge so much for slow charging? this is supposed to be a public service, not a way of extorting cash from people with no choice.

the second table of calculations they put in showing someone charging mostly at home on a night rate and some time on esb chargers is so tone-deaf. do they think everyone with an electric car must have a driveway? why dont they at least have a night-rate on the chargers? its not relevant how much charging at home costs, all that's relevant is that they are charging through the roof for public charging.

i haven't used the "fast" chargers many times but to call them >44kw is a joke.

their focus on replacing existing chargers with newer chargers to increase reliability is wrong-headed as well. if they have 2 chargers that are 95% reliable don't replace them with 2 new chargers that are 98% reliable, add the 2 new chargers and leave the old ones there! 4 chargers that are 96.5% reliable is much more useful for people.

even the formatting of the email to tell us about this was all over the place

Cyrus

slave1 wrote: »

Currently no time limits mentioned in the email but may change in the future.
I'm glad, takes the stress out of the big battery guys charging on those brand spanking new, state of the art, ultra reliable, modern 2kW charger "upgrade"

sorry ive seen this mentioned a lot but i dont understand it,

what are the 2kw chargers?

slave1

But they should be encouraging use with their pricing not turning away "business".
Price it closer to day time rates then you will get folk rocking up for a charge, it's not free anymore but same'ish price as charging at home.
ESB get the income straight into their books and take the reseller's margin off them e.g. if I'm with Airtricity at home then Airtricicty get their cut above wholesale rates and ESB get much less margin.

AC charging and paying parking on top is a disincentive.

We are still in the early adoption phase, incentives need to be maintained.
Anyhow, just my opinion

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

43AC is the same as the DC charger rate.
Can see a lot of zoes using the 22kW SCPs now.


23c is not bad tbh. No time limits I presume (havent received the email), and only 6c over base day rate

23c + the subscription fee. Does little for those without home chargers really. Expensive EVs and uneconomical in terms of running costs savings. Does the subscription fee make much sense for anyone with a home charger? Seems like a lot of miles (and thus the need for AC charging) to be worth it.

slave1

Cyrus wrote: »

sorry ive seen this mentioned a lot but i dont understand it,

what are the 2kw chargers?

They have been replacing dual 22kW chargers with a single 42kW DC charger and single 2kW AC charger.
The dopes

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

It had to be above the standard home day rate to stop freeloaders and that is typically around 20c before discounts.... so 23c seems reasonable on that basis.

It will certainly free them up for people who need them rather than locals who just dont want to pay for a charge point or want free electricity.

The glory days of cheap charging are now over.

I have free charging at work, as do a lot of folks.
The days are not over. We're transitioning to a sustainable business model.

blue chuzzle wrote: »

how can they think its ok to charge so much for slow charging? this is supposed to be a public service, not a way of extorting cash from people with no choice.

the second table of calculations they put in showing someone charging mostly at home on a night rate and some time on esb chargers is so tone-deaf. do they think everyone with an electric car must have a driveway? why dont they at least have a night-rate on the chargers? its not relevant how much charging at home costs, all that's relevant is that they are charging through the roof for public charging.

i haven't used the "fast" chargers many times but to call them >44kw is a joke.

their focus on replacing existing chargers with newer chargers to increase reliability is wrong-headed as well. if they have 2 chargers that are 95% reliable don't replace them with 2 new chargers that are 98% reliable, add the 2 new chargers and leave the old ones there! 4 chargers that are 96.5% reliable is much more useful for people.

even the formatting of the email to tell us about this was all over the place

It's not a public service, it's a business.

Cyrus wrote: »

sorry ive seen this mentioned a lot but i dont understand it,

what are the 2kw chargers?

The "new" 44kW fast chargers come with 2-6kW AC charging.

Black_Knight wrote: »

23c + the subscription fee. Does little for those without home chargers really. Expensive EVs and uneconomical in terms of running costs savings. Does the subscription fee make much sense for anyone with a home charger? Seems like a lot of miles (and thus the need for AC charging) to be worth it.

It's the same as the DC subscription (ie you pay one sub for both) so it may make sense in that instance.
I won't be paying the subscription as I dont really use public chargers anymore unless they are free. If I want the charge for the free parking, I'll set the car to charge at 5a single phase so it's actively charging but doesnt take on much.

slave1

Black_Knight wrote: »

Does the subscription fee make much sense for anyone with a home charger? Seems like a lot of miles (and thus the need for AC charging) to be worth it.

Totally agree, will be moving to the PAYG model as soon an the introductory offer has lapsed

eagerv

Well I am all for charging for the AC charge points, even though the few times we have used in the past few months there has never been a problem with availability. (South East)
Where we regularly shop in Waterford most parking fees are around €1.8/hour at convenient places, but parking free for charging EVs. So might as well get 7kWh when shopping and break even.:)

Silent Running

eagerv wrote: »

Well I am all for charging for the AC charge points, even though the few times we have used in the past few months there has never been a problem with availability. (South East)
Where we regularly shop in Waterford most parking fees are around €1.8/hour at convenient places, but parking free for charging EVs. So might as well get 7kWh/hour when shopping and break even.:)

EV parking is free in any council car park in Waterford, charging or not... well it was up to and including last year. It has been renewed yearly (January) for the last few years. A quick call to the council offices will confirm if it's still available this year.

Black_Knight

ELM327 wrote: »

If I want the charge for the free parking, I'll set the car to charge at 5a single phase so it's actively charging but doesnt take on much.

Yup. Can see that feature being quite handy. Trickle in some charge just to get free parking. Ioniq has it too.