BMW EGR cooler recall

Old diesel

prezes_a wrote: »

Just ring them few minutes ago still dont now when my car will be fixed,im really pist off.i dont understand how such big dealer dont now when get the parts.lads maybe we can go to silister and sort it out someway?

BMW are to blame for no parts.

The dealer is likely as annoyed as you are as it's in their interest to get your car into workshop, fixed and out again

Wheres Me Jumper?

i fully appreciate the gravity of the problem and the essential nature of the works (if) required. nobody in their right mind wants to take chances with a potential fire.

however that said, the whole way this has been handled from the initial design fault to the slowness of getting the cars in and then getting the required parts and fitting them, has been shambolic.
there is no question that this has done serious damage to the brand, and will take BMW quite some time to recover from.

Stallingrad

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

there is no question that this has done serious damage to the brand, and will take BMW quite some time to recover from.

Nikasil
Vanos
Petrol coil packs
Timing Chains
F10 corroding doors
EGR

BMW engineering shortcomings go back decades, this is just the latest. The slick marketing and showroom appeal blind most people to their failings.

Old diesel

Stallingrad wrote: »

Nikasil
Vanos
Petrol coil packs
Timing Chains
F10 corroding doors
EGR

BMW engineering shortcomings go back decades, this is just the latest. The slick marketing and showroom appeal blind most people to their failings.

E46 boot floor/rear subframe,

150 ps E46 320d swirl flaps and turbos,

Cooling systems in E39/E46 era,

E38 7 series fuel tanks.

E65 7 series issues on early cars.

Not a great list.

God be with the days a normal non enthusiast driver like my Uncle could pick up an E34 on 2nd hand market and drive it normally and not really give thought to stuff going wrong.

Seth Brundle

red petal wrote: »

Right and quickly. If it can't be done quickly, there should be an estimated time frame and communication from them. They would be quick enough to take my car away if I missed payments on it.

Given their available resources, you more than likely won't get it done both right and quickly.
This doesn't absolve them from crap communication.

Pistolpete1

Hi,
Looking for some info on this,

My car is part of the recall and booked in for April.

The garage have told me to call the emergency number on the recall letter if I have any issues between now and then.

If something does happen, (Car go on Fire) who is responsible for this? Will BMW cover the cost of the car as it is part of the recall and booked in or would it be claimed from my insurance?

Wheres Me Jumper?

Old diesel wrote: »

E46 boot floor/rear subframe,

150 ps E46 320d swirl flaps and turbos,

Cooling systems in E39/E46 era,

E38 7 series fuel tanks.

E65 7 series issues on early cars.

Not a great list.

God be with the days a normal non enthusiast driver like my Uncle could pick up an E34 on 2nd hand market and drive it normally and not really give thought to stuff going wrong.

knowledge can be a burden sometimes.

mooseknunkle

Old diesel wrote: »

Are there any cars coming back to owners after the fix.

I mean is it a case that they are making some progress through the backlog albeit far too slow.

Or is the process at a complete standstill

Looks like its at a complete standstill to me,like others have said when you contact the garage or BMW all you're hearing is "dont know"

matthew the statue

I work in a BMW Dealership , rather not say which one , the EGR recall is killing us , we have about 250 people on a list who are not having symptoms that we need to book in, no idea when we can get parts in.

We have about 50 cars on site and about 20ish cars in storage all waiting for parts. BMW are providing replacement cars but mostly fiestas etc. We cant even get our own customers or new customers in for service its a bit of joke having to tell people we really don't know. We cant get service customers in till April at the earliest.

Its a joke really but not a whole lot that can be done, if your car is a fire risk you have to bite the bullet, its a very bad situation but better than having a car go on fire.

IrishZeus

I’m booked in for March 15th but just out of curiosity - can this work be done independently with non-BMW parts?

Completely understand this would incur a cost but could potentially save someone losing their car for a few weeks /months. (Personally I will be going BMW but just wondering)

matthew the statue

IrishZeus wrote: »

I’m booked in for March 15th but just out of curiosity - can this work be done independently with non-BMW parts?

Completely understand this would incur a cost but could potentially save someone losing their car for a few weeks /months. (Personally I will be going BMW but just wondering)

Has to be done in an authorized BMW workshop.

mooseknunkle

matthew the statue wrote: »

I work in a BMW Dealership , rather not say which one , the EGR recall is killing us , we have about 250 people on a list who are not having symptoms that we need to book in, no idea when we can get parts in.

We have about 50 cars on site and about 20ish cars in storage all waiting for parts. BMW are providing replacement cars but mostly fiestas etc. We cant even get our own customers or new customers in for service its a bit of joke having to tell people we really don't know. We cant get service customers in till April at the earliest.

Its a joke really but not a whole lot that can be done, if your car is a fire risk you have to bite the bullet, its a very bad situation but better than having a car go on fire.

What is the actual situation with the parts?

ltdslipdiff

mooseknunkle wrote: »

What is the actual situation with the parts?

It's a worldwide problem with the diesels, so there's a huge drain on resources for the parts supplier. I think it all started in Korea IIRC. The auld lads is on a waiting list in Waterford too....

matthew the statue

mooseknunkle wrote: »

What is the actual situation with the parts?

Actual situation is we really don't know know. The parts are expensive (about 800 euro) so what I think is happening is they are being tight with them. There basically getting the cars in for a check , if the part is needed we have to send a case off to BMW. They then send the parts in but this is taking weeks and isn't acceptable to anyone.

There's talk there changing this process , but in Ireland the rate of replacement is far higher than the UK which is causing a few issues as BMW feel we are changing them over here when just the check is needed.

I feel sorry for anyone affected who has spent a lot of money on a premium car for this too happen.

matthew the statue

ltdslipdiff wrote: »

It's a worldwide problem with the diesels, so there's a huge drain on resources for the parts supplier. I think it all started in Korea IIRC. The auld lads is on a waiting list in Waterford too....

I personally think they have them , but it's costing an absolute fortune and they want to change as little of them as possible so they keep changing the criteria of when it actually needs to be changed , and when just the check is okay.

rex-x

matthew the statue wrote: »

I work in a BMW Dealership , rather not say which one , the EGR recall is killing us , we have about 250 people on a list who are not having symptoms that we need to book in, no idea when we can get parts in.

We have about 50 cars on site and about 20ish cars in storage all waiting for parts. BMW are providing replacement cars but mostly fiestas etc. We cant even get our own customers or new customers in for service its a bit of joke having to tell people we really don't know. We cant get service customers in till April at the earliest.

Its a joke really but not a whole lot that can be done, if your car is a fire risk you have to bite the bullet, its a very bad situation but better than having a car go on fire.

I'm interested, what exactly is being looked for to give an egr the ok? Surely given they are the same part from untraceable batches they are all potential failures and should all be replaced?
The ones given the ok now could fail next week or month etc. From what I can see only the ones with an immediate threat to fire are being replaced because as you say the part is expensive!

matthew the statue

rex-x wrote: »

I'm interested, what exactly is being looked for to give an egr the ok? Surely given they are the same part from untraceable batches they are all potential failures and should all be replaced?
The ones given the ok now could fail next week or month etc. From what I can see only the ones with an immediate threat to fire are being replaced because as you say the part is expensive!

Well any part could fail at anytime so you can never guarantee anything. I'm not a tech but my understanding of it is that if there's no visible damage to the cooler and there isn't any deposits of any kind it is fine and doesn't need replacing . Originally they were just changing them all and now they are doing this.

There are plans to change this again, to what I don't know.

rex-x

matthew the statue wrote: »

Well any part could fail at anytime so you can never guarantee anything. I'm not a tech but my understanding of it is that if there's no visible damage to the cooler and there isn't any deposits of any kind it is fine and doesn't need replacing . Originally they were just changing them all and now they are doing this.

There are plans to change this again, to what I don't know.

Yes but at some point even the ones now leaking did look fine too. If there is any chance of them going that way then it should be a blanket recall as they have all the same potential for leakage.
It seems cheap is the order of the day with this issue, although I can understand why they may not have hundreds of thousands of egr valves lying around, it wouldn't be a commonly replaced part for BMW before this.

IrishZeus

matthew the statue wrote: »

Well any part could fail at anytime so you can never guarantee anything. I'm not a tech but my understanding of it is that if there's no visible damage to the cooler and there isn't any deposits of any kind it is fine and doesn't need replacing . Originally they were just changing them all and now they are doing this.

There are plans to change this again, to what I don't know.

Curiosity - what % of the cars coming in now are actually getting new parts fitted?

matthew the statue

rex-x wrote: »

Yes but at some point even the ones now leaking did look fine too. If there is any chance of them going that way then it should be a blanket recall as they have all the same potential for leakage.
It seems cheap is the order of the day with this issue, although I can understand why they may not have hundreds of thousands of egr valves lying around, it wouldn't be a commonly replaced part for BMW before this.

Again every part that looks fine at some change can eventually fail , but I'd agree they should just replace them all even if it's just to cover themselves

matthew the statue

IrishZeus wrote: »

Curiosity - what % of the cars coming in now are actually getting new parts fitted?

About one in 6/7

Big Nasty

matthew the statue wrote: »

Again every part that looks fine at some change can eventually fail , but I'd agree they should just replace them all even if it's just to cover themselves

Thanks for the insight.

Is it like for like part being replaced or a different new part being fitted?

Big Nasty

My car was booked in for examination next June. Got smoke coming through the vents accompanied by an electrical burning smell last Friday. Called the emergency number and they lifted the car the following morning.

Is this one of the symptoms you have seen / heard of happening when the cooler is failing?

matthew the statue

Big Nasty wrote: »

My car was booked in for examination next June. Got smoke coming through the vents accompanied by an electrical burning smell last Friday. Called the emergency number and they lifted the car the following morning.

Is this one of the symptoms you have seen / heard of happening when the cooler is failing?

Smell of fumes in the cabin of the car can be a symptom along with what looks like white smoke. They are replacing them with a newer egr cooler as far as I am aware.

Big Nasty

matthew the statue wrote: »

Smell of fumes in the cabin of the car can be a symptom along with what looks like white smoke. They are replacing them with a newer egr cooler as far as I am aware.

Cheers. Hoping they don't keep the car for weeks before inspection then claim it's something else (that I have to pay for)!

prezes_a

Im from Waterford and my car is in the BMW garage 4weeks today,they still dont now when my car will be fixed

mooseknunkle

With BMW changing the criteria on what needs to be changed i wonder do any of the cars been held in garages actually need the parts,anyone else tempted to go into the garage and demand their car back?,im thinking about going in and not leaving until i see prove that my car 100% needs the parts.

matthew the statue

mooseknunkle wrote: »

With BMW changing the criteria on what needs to be changed i wonder do any of the cars been held in garages actually need the parts,anyone else tempted to go into the garage and demand their car back?,im thinking about going in and not leaving until i see prove that my car 100% needs the parts.

Well you can take the fire risk car if you like and they'll wipe your hands of you , you'll have to sign a notice saying you know your vehicle is unsafe, it's pretty poor but better to wait it out.

matthew the statue

mooseknunkle wrote: »

With BMW changing the criteria on what needs to be changed i wonder do any of the cars been held in garages actually need the parts,anyone else tempted to go into the garage and demand their car back?,im thinking about going in and not leaving until i see prove that my car 100% needs the parts.

And to be fair , most of the cars being grounded are after being checked and it's determined they need replacing , it's the ones that have been coming in the last two weeks or so that they've changed criteria.

mooseknunkle

matthew the statue wrote: »

Well you can take the fire risk car if you like and they'll wipe your hands of you , you'll have to sign a notice saying you know your vehicle is unsafe, it's pretty poor but better to wait it out.

To be honest its a risk im willing to take my car didnt display any of the symptoms and id much prefer to be driving my own car at a fire risk than the piece of shit they have given me.

Old diesel

mooseknunkle wrote: »

To be honest its a risk im willing to take my car didnt display any of the symptoms and id much prefer to be driving my own car at a fire risk than the piece of shit they have given me.

I'd rather get be putting pressure on BMW re ETAs on the part and then you get a fixed car back eventually.

It's not really worth the risk of taking the car back unfixed imo.

Stallingrad

mooseknunkle wrote: »

To be honest its a risk im willing to take my car didnt display any of the symptoms and id much prefer to be driving my own car at a fire risk than the piece of shit they have given me.

That F10 driver on the N11 days with white smoke bellowing out of his car must have had the same mindset!

Wheres Me Jumper?

mooseknunkle wrote: »

To be honest its a risk im willing to take my car didnt display any of the symptoms and id much prefer to be driving my own car at a fire risk than the piece of shit they have given me.

i take it you dont have children.

matthew the statue

mooseknunkle wrote: »

To be honest its a risk im willing to take my car didnt display any of the symptoms and id much prefer to be driving my own car at a fire risk than the piece of shit they have given me.

Ring BMW customer service , give them a sob story that you need a good car for work with a big engine or whatever and they should buckle and give you one. But you didn't hear that from me

mooseknunkle

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

i take it you dont have children.

Single man with no kids and im in my car 99% of the time on my own,like i said its a risk im willing to take.

prezes_a

I was wrote complain to BMW irrland week ago,but not answers at all.We pay finances,road tax for our cars-when the cars are out of road,hold by BMW.maybe we can stay togheter and get them to cover(payed) for that time when they keep our cars?we have our rights more people better chance to win.any ideas???

mooseknunkle

matthew the statue wrote: »

Ring BMW customer service , give them a sob story that you need a good car for work with a big engine or whatever and they should buckle and give you one. But you didn't hear that from me

So,just off the phone with them,didnt give a sob story told them the truth on how unhappy i was with the car given to me,a bit of back and forth and she said they couldnt upgrade the car,i then told her i was going into the garage this afternoon and was willing to sign to a declaration understanding my car was a fire risk to get my own car back.

I was the put on hold for 10 minutes and she came back to me saying there was a mistake when i was given the car initially and i should of been given a bigger engine from the start but the rental company didn't have any,they talked to Allianz and now they are going to get me into something different either today or tomorrow.

red petal

mooseknunkle wrote: »

So,just off the phone with them,didnt give a sob story told them the truth on how unhappy i was with the car given to me,a bit of back and forth and she said they couldnt upgrade the car,i then told her i was going into the garage this afternoon and was willing to sign to a declaration understanding my car was a fire risk to get my own car back.

I was the put on hold for 10 minutes and she came back to me saying there was a mistake when i was given the car initially and i should of been given a bigger engine from the start but the rental company didn't have any,they talked to Allianz and now they are going to get me into something different either today or tomorrow.

I held out that hope with them too, they said they were upgrading me to a C class when I told them I needed a bigger car. Little did I know, I was already in a class and they replaced it with a ford focus that rattles and roars and is 2 yrs older than the first car they gave me. This kind of stuff would be bearable if we at least knew an estimated repair time. With my car still sitting in the holding area 2 weeks later, 60 cars waiting in the dealer and who knows how many cars ahead of me in the holding area, it's a joke! There is no one taking control or ownership of it.

matthew the statue

Really nothing that can be done, I wouldn't be taking the blame out on the dealers , nothing they can do. We'd rather have them in and out

mooseknunkle

mooseknunkle wrote: »

So,just off the phone with them,didnt give a sob story told them the truth on how unhappy i was with the car given to me,a bit of back and forth and she said they couldnt upgrade the car,i then told her i was going into the garage this afternoon and was willing to sign to a declaration understanding my car was a fire risk to get my own car back.

I was the put on hold for 10 minutes and she came back to me saying there was a mistake when i was given the car initially and i should of been given a bigger engine from the start but the rental company didn't have any,they talked to Allianz and now they are going to get me into something different either today or tomorrow.

Just to give people un update for anyone interested,they said i was getting upgraded to S class whatever that is,Enterprise car rental rang me and said they had a 1.7 Kia Sportage,i told them its still too small for me so BMW rang me straight away and said thats the biggest they can get me i said i only wanted a 2l minimum and they couldnt get one,so told them im going into get my own car.

Rang the garage and told them id be before they close and to get the car and whatever was i needed to sign ready,they in turn rang BMW who again rang me and i simply told them i wanted my own car back,long story short i signed a declaration in the garage and drove my car home.

Toyotafanboi

Dont get me wrong, the issue itself is a bit of a joke for a brand like this and it's very poor that BMW can't set a time frame for affected owners, even if it's a bad news timeline but I cannot get my head around your actions.

They aren't grounding these cars for the sport of it, they are grounding them and paying storage fees and replacement vehicle fees for every car that is grounded and they wouldn't be paying these significant costs unless they felt it was totally necessary. There is a very real and proven risk that these cars can and will go on fire.

To me, your actions are a little bit precious and I don't mean to offend you with that, but I'm curious as to why you needed your car back so so badly? Could you really not make do in a Sportage for a few weeks? I understand the risk to your personal health is small as if there is a fire you can just (ideally) pull in and get out, but if you own a new-ish BMW i'd expect you will be at a total loss now if there is a fire as BMW will wash their hands of it and so would an insurance company i'd expect.

You've clearly decided it's worth the risk, which is fine, as a grown adult, but I am curious as to why exactly?

mooseknunkle

Simple answer they couldnt give me a minimum 2L car as replacement,ive Been driving a 3L BMW the past 8 years so im not accepting a 1.7 KIA to be honest,if they really thought my car was a fire risk then they wouldnt of given it back.

matthew the statue

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Simple answer they couldnt give me a minimum 2L car as replacement,ive Been driving a 3L BMW the past 8 years so im not accepting a 1.7 KIA to be honest,if they really thought my car was a fire risk then they wouldnt of given it back.

They gave you back your car because you signed a disclaimer , not because it isn't a fire risk , it still is a fire risk , I wouldn't expect any assistance at all off BMW in the future. They usually cover a lot of stuff outside of warranty under good will , this won't happen for you now I'd say.

Wheres Me Jumper?

matthew the statue wrote: »

They gave you back your car because you signed a disclaimer , not because it isn't a fire risk , it still is a fire risk , I wouldn't expect any assistance at all off BMW in the future. They usually cover a lot of stuff outside of warranty under good will , this won't happen for you now I'd say.

surely by signing such a disclaimer you couuld also be invalidating your insurance!
i would say you're on a sticky wicket if you have a fire.

BrookieD

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Simple answer they couldnt give me a minimum 2L car as replacement,ive Been driving a 3L BMW the past 8 years so im not accepting a 1.7 KIA to be honest,if they really thought my car was a fire risk then they wouldnt of given it back.

To be honest you sound like your throwing the toys out of the pram and coming off very petty. What's the big deal in running a 1.7l car for a few weeks, don't get faux outrage.

prezes_a

Get my car back ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜after 4 weeks ,Waterford

Toyotafanboi

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Simple answer they couldnt give me a minimum 2L car as replacement,ive Been driving a 3L BMW the past 8 years so im not accepting a 1.7 KIA to be honest,if they really thought my car was a fire risk then they wouldnt of given it back.

They really do think it's a fire risk, that's why they grounded it and made you sign a disclaimer to take it away, it's your problem now.

I'd understand if they gave you a Kia Picanto or a VW Up or some other tiny POS but I personally I think a Sportage, while not like for like is a reasonable temporary car.

Anyway sure it is what it is now.

Big Nasty

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Simple answer they couldnt give me a minimum 2L car as replacement,ive Been driving a 3L BMW the past 8 years so im not accepting a 1.7 KIA to be honest,if they really thought my car was a fire risk then they wouldnt of given it back.

My car was booked in for mid June. Like you I wasn't all that bothered. My car went (very briefly) on fire last Friday with my wife and child in it. BMW have my car now and I don't want it back until it has the all clear. I'm in an Auris Hybrid. It wouldn't pull the skin off a sausage. People don't let me out of junctions. I'm not all that happy in it. Better than being dead though.

darragh o meara

Big Nasty wrote: »

My car was booked in for mid June. Like you I wasn't all that bothered. My car went (very briefly) on fire last Friday with my wife and child in it. BMW have my car now and I don't want it back until it has the all clear. I'm in an Auris Hybrid. It wouldn't pull the skin off a sausage. People don't let me out of junctions. I'm not all that happy in it. Better than being dead though.

Did you get any warning signs before your car went on fire? I was with the dealer the other day to book mine in and he advised me to hold off for a fortnight. He did however tell me that the car would lose coolant before it would combust so if it did happen I would have had to drive on with a low coolant warning in the car.

Big Nasty

darragh o meara wrote: »

Did you get any warning signs before your car went on fire? I was with the dealer the other day to book mine in and he advised me to hold off for a fortnight. He did however tell me that the car would lose coolant before it would combust so if it did happen I would have had to drive on with a low coolant warning in the car.

Got a low coolant warning a few weeks back and had to put a liter in to top it up. Didn't think anything of it at the time.

When I say 'briefly went on fire' it didn't burn to the ground or anything. Something ignited and sent smoke coming through the air vents in the dash.