Why wouldn't you buy an Alfa Romeo? (keep it civilized)

NoBread

swarlb wrote: »

When you choose to buy a car based on everything but aesthetics your missing the point of the original design.
Take Lancia for example. Prior to the company being sold in the late 50's, and Fiat acquiring them in the 60's, each car they made shared virtually nothing with the previous model. They built cars with straight 4 engine, then a V4, then a V8, then a V6, a flat 4 and finally back to a V4. Some had transaxles, some had gearboxes attached to the engine, some had front wheel drive, some had rear wheel drive. There was no consistency. Each car was designed from a blank sheet of paper, with little reference to what went before.
As a result they built well engineered cars, and with a sold customer base. However, they made no money and eventually could not compete.
Early Alfa Romeo could be considered along the same lines.
These days the parameters lie around safety, market segment, user friendly media platforms, emissions... the design department is usually the last to be consulted, hence every car looks virtually the same, as designers are afraid to express themselves with something different.
These days people are also afraid to express themselves and follow like sheep.
I was at a football match recently, and if it wasn't for the fact the players wore numbers, I'd be hard pushed to pick them out, they all virtually had the same haircut !

This is exactly it! It's the reason I like Lancia! The same reason I like Alfa, and in the past Fiat, and Subaru, and Mazda - (any company that persisted with the rotary engine deserves praise). The Italian brands were always more adventurous than the German brands, and so too were the French. But the German "sensible" method won out in the end, but engineering died a lot as a result. Even the Germans were once adventurous too, some more than others, but that died down to almost nothing. Now one of the cleverest things they do is VW's modular platform, which is excellent from a mass production point of view, but hardly sets the heart racing. Someone also said recently enough that BMW used to be an Engineering company that makes cars, now they're a marketing company that makes cars. Not all that far from the truth!
Accountants run the world now. And the modern financially ruled world does not reward ingenuity, unless you've managed to engineer a solution to make some part more cheaply.

road_high

I think Alfa have invested heavily in the car and product which are comparably excellent-
To then fall at the last hurdle- the sales, marketing, customer service support is utterly stupid. To sell a range of cars as good as the Giulia and Stelvio are, you need to utterly overhaul the business and sales/service channel. Just leaving it as it was is nuts.
The likes of Audi and BMW don’t sell out of portakabin type dealers for good reason- I wouldn’t spend €50k plus unless I was sure it had the quality back up you need at that price. This is where they’ve failed.
Not sure what their dealer network is like elsewhere in Europe, but it’s woeful looking here for a premium brand.

H3llR4iser

road_high wrote: »

I think Alfa have invested heavily in the car and product which are comparably excellent-
To then fall at the last hurdle- the sales, marketing, customer service support is utterly stupid. To sell a range of cars as good as the Giulia and Stelvio are, you need to utterly overhaul the business and sales/service channel. Just leaving it as it was is nuts.
The likes of Audi and BMW don’t sell out of portakabin type dealers for good reason- I wouldn’t spend €50k plus unless I was sure it had the quality back up you need at that price. This is where they’ve failed.
Not sure what their dealer network is like elsewhere in Europe, but it’s woeful looking here for a premium brand.

Well, it's a conundrum - they spent nothing here, as they most likely know it's a pointless effort; The ads are on the US TV constantly, and Munich Airport has been plastered with Giulia screens and posters for a long time.

As for the showrooms, they ARE a bit better elsewhere - this is a completely random one in the outskirts of Rome:

https://goo.gl/maps/HABtxp8aMdD2

Although it's not always the case - unfortunate location in Manhattan, if you ask me:
https://goo.gl/maps/2Qkju82iSAB2

Boys and girls in there were sound and courteous when I paid a visit (literally stumbled on it by chance, walking back from the USS Intrepid museum), they were genuinely curious when they heard I was actually from Italy and a long time customet - albeit a bit out of touch with the brand's past; When I showed them my own 159 they thought it was an upcoming model for the US market

Fair to them, the average prospective customer in the US won't know much either; Also, there were two couples in there who had just signed up for a Stelvios.

Dan Seaman's in Cork is actually nice as a showroom...if you can find it.

Avatar MIA

H3llR4iser wrote: »

they were genuinely curious when they heard I was actually from Italy

* Mystery Customer Alert!!!*

zilog_jones

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Dan Seaman's in Cork is actually nice as a showroom...if you can find it.

Yeah, I still haven't seen it, or I've passed it and never noticed. Whereas I pass Lee Garage every time I walk to or from the city centre - then again I would generally avoid driving in that area.

swarlb

There is NO Alfa Romeo Ireland, it's basically run from the UK, and as probably most of you are aware from recent events, people in the UK, generally speaking, are not aware of our existence !

H3llR4iser

Avatar MIA wrote: »

* Mystery Customer Alert!!!*

Yep, in all fairness, I realize it had all the hallmarks of a mystery shopper ambush

CrankyHaus

A Giulia passed me on the motorway today and made me think of this thread.

A fantastic looking car. The rakish slant of the headlights caught my attention from a good distance.

I actually had had no idea that Alfa were making all new cars of that standard. I thought it was just reheated old
stuff. I've found the styling in that compact executive segment has congealed to utter tedium in recent years so fair play to them.

road_high

swarlb wrote: »

There is NO Alfa Romeo Ireland, it's basically run from the UK, and as probably most of you are aware from recent events, people in the UK, generally speaking, are not aware of our existence !

They should take a leaf out of the books of the UK retailers- they run their Irish operations very profitably and competitively indeed!

galwaytt

162 posts on this subject shows motor fans have more interest in the brand than either the importer or the dealer (s)... .

You literally never get this level of engagement on, say, .....an Auris. ...

It really is like rolling a wheel downhill for their marketing Dept. ....if they had one....

swarlb

galwaytt wrote: »

162 posts on this subject shows motor fans have more interest in the brand than either the importer or the dealer (s)... .

You literally never get this level of engagement on, say, .....an Auris. ...

It really is like rolling a wheel downhill for their marketing Dept. ....if they had one....

I don't think it is an interest in the brand per se, more that people will always be drawn to comment on anything that is 'different'

Let's say for argument sake we start few threads on..

Fiat Multipla
Alfa Romeo Arna
Toyota Corolla

The Corolla, while probably being a decent car, is also incredibly 'ordinary' so don't expect too much comment.
The other two however, will draw possibly dozens of comments simply on how they 'look', and probably zero comments on anything else about them.

fancy pigeon

swarlb wrote: »

The Corolla, while probably being a decent car, is also incredibly 'ordinary' so don't expect too much comment.
The other two however, will draw possibly dozens of comments simply on how they 'look', and probably zero comments on anything else about them.

The thing with the Corolla is while normal people will generally discuss their experiences with them, express fond memories of one they had/their parents had and that they were a grand all rounder etc there's always one muppet who'll make a God out of the car and it just turns into a nasty battle against everyone else, regardless if it's good or bad, let alone anyone who dares say anything bad about them. You just have to laugh at how pathetic it becomes

The Arna would be an interesting pile of dung to have a natter about though also I would like to keep my breakfast down and not see a pic of a modern Multipla

swarlb

fancy pigeon wrote: »

The thing with the Corolla is while normal people will generally discuss their experiences with them, express fond memories of one they had/their parents had and that they were a grand all rounder etc there's always one muppet who'll make a God out of the car and it just turns into a nasty battle against everyone else, regardless if it's good or bad, let alone anyone who dares say anything bad about them. You just have to laugh at how pathetic it becomes

The Arna would be an interesting pile of dung to have a natter about though also I would like to keep my breakfast down and not see a pic of a modern Multipla

'normal' people ! Are they the ones who chose Toyota ? Who buys a Toyota ? Or should I say who buys a particular model made by Toyota. And that is the basis of this thread.
Is it 'Alfa Romeo' or a particular model made by Alfa Romeo.
Because the person who choses to buy an Alfa Romeo cannot be categorised in the context of a person who buys a Toyota. A Yaris driver for example, would possibly never consider driving a Land Cruiser, and a Land Cruiser owner would probably cringe at the thought of driving a Yaris.
A person who chooses Alfa, chooses the Brand first, and the model second, in my opinion.
As for the Arna and Multipla. Arna was not sold in this country, although I did see an Italian one outside a chipper once years ago. I'd never seen one before, and to be honest I though it was some odd Japanese car that someone had stuck an Alfa grille to the front.
The Multipla intrigued me, simply because of the looks. I was in France on holiday some 15 years ago, and there was available to hire, so I took it. Amazing car, 6 full size seats (not a Zafira with 4 seats, a middle rear section you could squeeze a teenager, and 2 extra seats at the back which are claustrophobic at best). I could comfortably carry 3 teens and 2 adults, along with luggage, with visibility that could only be described as panoramic. It's the only car I've driven where my travel prone kids did not feel sick. In fact I liked it so much I bought one for small money a few years later. I still have it, close on 200k on the clock, and while it's not used that much, it's an ideal bus when required. Plus with the rear seats removed it could carry a huge load and still have room for 3 up front. I read somewhere that in Italy they were offered as a van, as the loadbay area could take a Europallet as the floor is flat.
Moral of the story, you actually need to drive a car to make a solid judgement. I couldn't care less what people think of it.

fancy pigeon

swarlb wrote: »

'normal' people ! Are they the ones who chose Toyota ? Who buys a Toyota ? Or should I say who buys a particular model made by Toyota. And that is the basis of this thread.
Is it 'Alfa Romeo' or a particular model made by Alfa Romeo.
Because the person who choses to buy an Alfa Romeo cannot be categorised in the context of a person who buys a Toyota. A Yaris driver for example, would possibly never consider driving a Land Cruiser, and a Land Cruiser owner would probably cringe at the thought of driving a Yaris.
A person who chooses Alfa, chooses the Brand first, and the model second, in my opinion.
As for the Arna and Multipla. Arna was not sold in this country, although I did see an Italian one outside a chipper once years ago. I'd never seen one before, and to be honest I though it was some odd Japanese car that someone had stuck an Alfa grille to the front.
The Multipla intrigued me, simply because of the looks. I was in France on holiday some 15 years ago, and there was available to hire, so I took it. Amazing car, 6 full size seats (not a Zafira with 4 seats, a middle rear section you could squeeze a teenager, and 2 extra seats at the back which are claustrophobic at best). I could comfortably carry 3 teens and 2 adults, along with luggage, with visibility that could only be described as panoramic. It's the only car I've driven where my travel prone kids did not feel sick. In fact I liked it so much I bought one for small money a few years later. I still have it, close on 200k on the clock, and while it's not used that much, it's an ideal bus when required. Plus with the rear seats removed it could carry a huge load and still have room for 3 up front. I read somewhere that in Italy they were offered as a van, as the loadbay area could take a Europallet as the floor is flat.
Moral of the story, you actually need to drive a car to make a solid judgement. I couldn't care less what people think of it.

Well, yes, normal people would buy something bread and butter. There are exceptions and I can think of a few from here that don't follow the following blatant rambling load of crap stereotype :P but for the most of the masses the type that follow soaps, listen to modern scour on the radio, talk about celebrities, gossip and live a mundane boring life is how I'd see the "normal" average everyday normal person that scutters along to the shop for a gossip and natter with staff who don't care, talk sh*te in the local pub with other gombeens, force their unplanned offspring to go to sports events on Saturday mornings to spend the entire Saturday watching sports on the TV, have a huge mortgage in some pyrite ridden kip in the outskirts of ballygoaskmearse, consider the drive in bingo in some cow sh*te covered field with other normals an exciting bit of fun and have no spatial awareness of their immediate surroundings. Let's live things as cheap as possible seems to be their motto. Sheeple

I may have spent the last year in a D4D Avensis, but it lived one hell of a life with me, anything but mundane about it's existence

I remember buying the 166 with the intention of shoehorning it's engine into a Fiat, but decided it was too good to shred and began the long process of putting it right, despite the car biting back several times with other hidden surprises I kept going on. The 156 SW really burned me and I have not forgotten it: no thanks, not for me

These days I won't consider anything FWD/relatively recent from Alfa Romeo. I'd rather the likes of a 90/75/Giulietta 116 which would be worth the trouble to maintain to me and even then I'd think twice about thinking about it

What would you categorize me under, using the above logics

MTBD

fancy pigeon wrote: »

These days I won't consider anything FWD/relatively recent from Alfa Romeo. I'd rather the likes of a 90/75/Giulietta 116 which would be worth the trouble to maintain to me and even then I'd think twice about thinking about it

What would you categorize me under, using the above logics

You're missing out! The 156 is a wonderful handling car with a suspension refresh. Most are completely knackered by now though.

swarlb wrote: »

'normal' people ! Are they the ones who chose Toyota ? Who buys a Toyota ? Or should I say who buys a particular model made by Toyota. And that is the basis of this thread.
Is it 'Alfa Romeo' or a particular model made by Alfa Romeo.
Because the person who choses to buy an Alfa Romeo cannot be categorised in the context of a person who buys a Toyota. A Yaris driver for example, would possibly never consider driving a Land Cruiser, and a Land Cruiser owner would probably cringe at the thought of driving a Yaris.
A person who chooses Alfa, chooses the Brand first, and the model second, in my opinion.
As for the Arna and Multipla. Arna was not sold in this country, although I did see an Italian one outside a chipper once years ago. I'd never seen one before, and to be honest I though it was some odd Japanese car that someone had stuck an Alfa grille to the front.
The Multipla intrigued me, simply because of the looks. I was in France on holiday some 15 years ago, and there was available to hire, so I took it. Amazing car, 6 full size seats (not a Zafira with 4 seats, a middle rear section you could squeeze a teenager, and 2 extra seats at the back which are claustrophobic at best). I could comfortably carry 3 teens and 2 adults, along with luggage, with visibility that could only be described as panoramic. It's the only car I've driven where my travel prone kids did not feel sick. In fact I liked it so much I bought one for small money a few years later. I still have it, close on 200k on the clock, and while it's not used that much, it's an ideal bus when required. Plus with the rear seats removed it could carry a huge load and still have room for 3 up front. I read somewhere that in Italy they were offered as a van, as the loadbay area could take a Europallet as the floor is flat.
Moral of the story, you actually need to drive a car to make a solid judgement. I couldn't care less what people think of it.

Not only would I consider a Landcruiser Amazon, I'd also consider a Yaris GRMN. But I will admit I probably account for my own segment of car buyers.

Roarsbaby

An Alfista?
I love 166s (I have 2 road cars and 1 track car (and 1 parts donor).
My current daily driver is an 03 156SW 1.8 Twinspark (also have a parts donor for it
-financial write off after van man crashed into the side of it).
Finally for my sins/madness I have an 84 Alfasud (my first 2 cars were Alfasuds back in the early 90s)
As you might guess I kinda have the Alfa bug.
I've driven the 150BHP 2.2 diesel Giulia-very impressed.
Not sure I'd buy any car new TBH

It's not what you're like that's important, it's what you like

fancy pigeon

MTBD wrote: »

You're missing out! The 156 is a wonderful handling car with a suspension refresh. Most are completely knackered by now though.

Been there and done that. Had a few V6's around the house along with several 4 pots, along with the pleasure of driving almost every engine available bar a Q4 and GTA. A V6 with konis/polybushes is quite nice to drive, try a GTV TS with uprated arb's and polybushes for a rewarding drive

I had the pleasure of pottering about in an Evo 7 one time. Now that's a wonderful handling car :cool:

trurl

I didn't buy the Giulia because I can't afford a new petrol one, and I don't want a diesel.

I think there is a major difference between alfisti and the general public. I want an Alfa, the general public wants a car. I filter for Alfa Romeo, fuel type and price, the general public filters for price, mileage, age and number of doors, and can end up with whatever white goods from Korea is on offer on the day.

I'm not judging (well, maybe a little bit). I'm sure a lot of tea lovers would be shocked to see how I buy tea, because I know nothing about it. But it still hurts to see Dacias ruining the scenery all over this beautiful island.

fancy pigeon

trurl wrote: »

I didn't buy the Giulia because I can't afford a new petrol one, and I don't want a diesel.

I think there is a major difference between alfisti and the general public. I want an Alfa, the general public wants a car. I filter for Alfa Romeo, fuel type and price, the general public filters for price, mileage, age and number of doors, and can end up with whatever white goods from Korea is on offer on the day.

I'm not judging (well, maybe a little bit). I'm sure a lot of tea lovers would be shocked to see how I buy tea, because I know nothing about it. But it still hurts to see Dacias ruining the scenery all over this beautiful island.

The following excerpt is a general ramble and to be taken tongue in cheek

Could be also the fear factor that if you have something different you stand out thus making a perceived unwarranted statement yet Johnny handwash and his knowitall barstool muppets will be mouthing about it down the pub, spouting absolute made up crap behind your back having a good sneer that you have something unreliable/non diesel/non blandbox etc... When all you want to do is enjoy the car you drive

All you can do is stand back and laugh at their ignorance as they bicker over how their cough bottle sized diesel engine dishwasher is getting 200mpg, getting 80k miles from a set of tyres, how it has "serious torque", is described as "nippy", they shot by a *insert much larger, powerful prestigious vehicle here* on the Naas dual carriageway, pulled a massive trailer they don't own behind it and it never needs servicing, knowing they will never understand or learn what it's like to stand out and have a car very different to everyone else on the road

Our roads are plagued with all sorts of generic rubbish to get from a to b, often used to get to destination c. Anything that's so called "modified" almost always with pwurpel fogs, some absolute crap wind deflectors, squiggly writing somewhere on said washing machine, cheap oversized aftermarket black wheels wrapped in cheap crummy part worn remoulded knock off China tyres and a farty exhaust (boyband/generic d*ckhead haircut/non sock wearer modifications) is usually some half clapped out ex PCP scrapbox that Biddy never minded cos she was getting a new one anyway. Biddy was SAVING money on unnecessary running costs like servicing "shur I only tip about there'd be no point I LOVE SAVING the pennies"

It's rare that I'll encounter something that will make me look twice in elation or go "goodness I haven't seen one of those in a while!" The smugness of most Dacia Dustbin drivers is eyewatering; their cheapness putting penny pinching Cavan people to shame. King of the road is the Nissan Kumquat and other similar sized identity crisis pedestal bins on wheels, or so the vast majority of their owners like to think :rolleyes:

Arthur Daley

fancy pigeon wrote: »

All you can do is stand back and laugh at their ignorance as they bicker over how their cough bottle sized diesel engine dishwasher is getting 200mpg, getting 80k miles from a set of tyres, how it has "serious torque", is described as "nippy", they shot by a *insert much larger, powerful prestigious vehicle here* on the Naas dual carriageway, pulled a massive trailer they don't own behind it and it never needs servicing, knowing they will never understand or learn what it's like to stand out and have a car very different to everyone else on the road

I do enjoy your world weary rambles I must say:pac:

H3llR4iser

fancy pigeon wrote: »

[...CUT]The smugness of most Dacia Dustbin drivers is eyewatering; their cheapness putting penny pinching Cavan people to shame. King of the road is the Nissan Kumquat and other similar sized identity crisis pedestal bins on wheels, or so the vast majority of their owners like to think :rolleyes:

Love the rant sans frontieres...more on point, on Saturday I was sitting at a traffic light behind a car that had a "the closer you get, the slower I drive" sticker on the rear window. It was of course a Dacia "Dustbin" :D:D.

road_high

I see for curiosity Tractamotors in Blanch have a brand new top of the range model Stelvio in stock- a snip at €125 k!
Seriously, can’t see too many buyers for that? Though I guess you’ll get the odd mega rich person who just wants it regardless of the price and deprecation.

Chris_Heilong

This seems fitting for here.

ELM327

road_high wrote: »

I see for curiosity Tractamotors in Blanch have a brand new top of the range model Stelvio in stock- a snip at €125 k!
Seriously, can’t see too many buyers for that? Though I guess you’ll get the odd mega rich person who just wants it regardless of the price and deprecation.

I'd love to spend 10 seconds in the head of someone who would buy that over an m5.

ELM327

Roarsbaby wrote: »

An Alfista?
I love 166s (I have 2 road cars and 1 track car (and 1 parts donor).
My current daily driver is an 03 156SW 1.8 Twinspark (also have a parts donor for it
-financial write off after van man crashed into the side of it).
Finally for my sins/madness I have an 84 Alfasud (my first 2 cars were Alfasuds back in the early 90s)
As you might guess I kinda have the Alfa bug.
I've driven the 150BHP 2.2 diesel Giulia-very impressed.
Not sure I'd buy any car new TBH

I've spent my time as an alfister but moved on. I loved the twinspark 156 I had and it was to this day the nicest sounding 4 pot engine I've ever driven.
Damn thing was plagued with electrical problems.

Skylinehead

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd love to spend 10 seconds in the head of someone who would buy that over an m5.

Why are you comparing an SUV to an ultra-sports saloon?

ELM327

Nixonbot wrote: »

Why are you comparing an SUV to an ultra-sports saloon?

Same price bracket


You could have an X5 M50d for that money too.

Skylinehead

ELM327 wrote: »

Same price bracket


You could have an X5 M50d for that money too.

You could have a lovely John Deere for the money too.

It's like asking why someone bought a Tucson when they could have an MX-5.

Oh and an M5 is 165k, not 125k.

John_Rambo

Nixonbot wrote: »

Why are you comparing an SUV to an ultra-sports saloon?

It's a 500bhp 3 litre petrol twin-turbo SUV.