Why wouldn't you buy an Alfa Romeo? (keep it civilized)

Eric Cartman

that truck actually looks unreal.

road_high

Poor Alfa, seems worldwide they are missing their ambitious (and unrealistic) sales targets.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2018/03/01/alfa-romeo-giulia-leads-sputtering-revival-plan-and-its-impossible-targets/#1968fef06e2c

The brand is desirable but unfortunately its reputation doesn't stand the prices being asked- if they had pitched it a good bit under Audi, BMW, Merc then offered Lexus or Hyundai like customer service, warranty and dealer support thne yes a lot more people would have given them the benefit of the doubt here.
People spending this kind of money aren't willing to go out on a limb, especially given Alfas past. No way I'd spend 50k of my own money on a Guilia. The 156 was popular as it was well priced and desirable- before the reliability gremlins became apparent.

road_high

Eric Cartman wrote: »

that truck actually looks unreal.

It really does:cool:. Aren't Iveco part of the Fiat empire? But doubt they'd stick their brand on a truck!

H3llR4iser

road_high wrote: »

It really does:cool:. Aren't Iveco part of the Fiat empire? But doubt they'd stick their brand on a truck!

Believe it or not, Alfa Romeo used to make buses, trucks, vans and airplane engines...

blingrhino

i wonder what the PCP deal they would offer in the form of GFV !

road_high

blingrhino wrote: »

i wonder what the PCP deal they would offer in the form of GFV !

Probabaly another area where the German makes can beat them. Alfa have a good product, just packaged, priced and serviced wrongly.

galwaytt

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Believe it or not, Alfa Romeo used to make buses, trucks, vans and airplane engines...

Indeed - many years ago, before the internet, there was a great article on the motoring press about the Alfa Romeo museum: long before museums became the big business it is now.

Anyhoo, the thing was: it wasn't advertised, and you had to write to them and get an 'invite' basically. So, I duly did. I cheated: I used the then-newfangled fax machine to do it.........and promptly heard nothing. For months.

Eventually though, I did. It was along the lines of 'Dear Galwaytt, thank you for your fax, but you have faxed the Aero division and we have forwarded your request to the car factory'

I duly got a reply from them, went there: which was beyond the arse of nowhere, had to surrender our passports at the gate and walk through the campus & offices - unaccompanied - into one building and out another to.............the most fabulous museum I'd ever seen. Mrs Gtt was in tow. There wasn't a sinner in the place (3 - 4 stories iirc) apart from a few dotes dusting the cars.

Highly recommended. Got the passports back at the gate and then walked for miles to get a train to Milan.

Must dig up the pics and scan them or something.

Gravelly

I wouldn't buy a new Alfa for two of the same reasons I wouldn't buy a new BMW - dubious reliability and uninterested dealers - and one extra reason - difficulty with resale or trade in.

Kevin Finnerty

Arthur Daley wrote: »

You know it makes sense

That was Dell Boy Arthur!

My uncle had an Alfa Sud it was fast as watery curry. Back then it was only a 1.5 petrol but he gave us plenty of scares in it. Saw a 181 Giullia last week, class looking yoke and great presence, but it had only one tailpipe, whatever it was. I'd love to drive one , but somebody else's.

kyote00

Also made trains, buses, marine engine and .... cookers ...

Arthur Daley

road_high wrote: »

Poor Alfa, seems worldwide they are missing their ambitious (and unrealistic) sales targets.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2018/03/01/alfa-romeo-giulia-leads-sputtering-revival-plan-and-its-impossible-targets/#1968fef06e2c.

I don't think the sales targets in that article were ever very realistic for Alfa. Alfa struggled to sell 200,000 cars across Europe for every year in the last 30 years. Their biggest sales year was 2001 when they topped 200k in Europe, the 156 ,GTV and 166 were on a high and the 147 had just been launched.

In 2017 they sold nearly 87k, and about 83k in 2018. But the Mito is winding/been would down which will drag down the effect of the new metal coming on stream.

Avatar MIA

Sadly, this sums up Alfa...

http://www.alfaromeo.ie/giulietta

road_high

Arthur Daley wrote: »

I don't think the sales targets in that article were ever very realistic for Alfa. Alfa struggled to sell 200,000 cars across Europe for every year in the last 30 years. Their biggest sales year was 2001 when they topped 200k in Europe, the 156 ,GTV and 166 were on a high and the 147 had just been launched.

In 2017 they sold nearly 87k, and about 83k in 2018. But the Mito is winding/been would down which will drag down the effect of the new metal coming on stream.

No close to half a million wasn’t realistic at all, unless a major change in pricing structure and dealer support. But it’s probably what they to sell to profitable as the cost of developing a new car is so massive. They need volume to do that, that’s how the likes of VW group do it.

road_high

http://www.alfaromeo.ie/finance-examples
Some good offers- base Giulia at €34k, they aren’t promoting it though. I thought they were 40k plus

galwaytt

Gravelly wrote: »

I wouldn't buy a new Alfa for two of the same reasons I wouldn't buy a new BMW - dubious reliability and uninterested dealers - and one extra reason - difficulty with resale or trade in.

Is it just me, or what ?

As a recovering - Petroholic © - I always write my cars down to zero in my ownership. That way, once paid for/term over, whatever I get for them I consider 'gravy'.

I have never bought a car because '"in 3/4/5 years time I'll get xx%" for it, and therefore cod/talk myself into something I may not really want, and may not be able to afford.

If I did adopt the other school of thought I'd be stuck in an endless whizz of Grey Golf's or something...........and bemoan how no-one buys new Alfa's.

kyote00

http://www.alfaromeo.ie/models/giulietta

(Sums up your internet skill also ... :cool:)

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Sadly, this sums up Alfa...

http://www.alfaromeo.ie/giulietta

Avatar MIA

kyote00 wrote: »

http://www.alfaromeo.ie/models/giulietta

(Sums up your internet skill also ... :cool:)

What I posted was a link on the website, that it can be found elsewhere is irrelevant.

Gravelly

galwaytt wrote: »

Is it just me, or what ?

As a recovering - Petroholic © - I always write my cars down to zero in my ownership. That way, once paid for/term over, whatever I get for them I consider 'gravy'.

I have never bought a car because '"in 3/4/5 years time I'll get xx%" for it, and therefore cod/talk myself into something I may not really want, and may not be able to afford.

If I did adopt the other school of thought I'd be stuck in an endless whizz of Grey Golf's or something...........and bemoan how no-one buys new Alfa's.

I do that when I buy an “interesting” used car, but anyone who writes off a brand new €50 or €60k car to nothing as soon as they’ve bought it is either very,very rich, or very, very stupid!

galwaytt

Gravelly wrote: »

I do that when I buy an “interesting” used car, but anyone who writes off a brand new €50 or €60k car to nothing as soon as they’ve bought it is either very,very rich, or very, very stupid!

I didn't say write it off Year 1. If I spend 25k on a car, I'd write it down to zero over 5yrs.
A 50k car (which I'd struggle to justify tbh), I'd see that as an 8 yr car approx.

Either way, what I'd get for it Year 8 I'd get for it: absolutely no point in putting a number on it now: for all we know (the way things are going) they could be banned by then and it'll be worth s.f.a. anyway.

H3llR4iser

So, coming back to this after I let it "develop" for a while.

As I said before, there are quite a few interesting points being made and some not so surprising stuff being tossed around - the old pub talk about "reliability" and "depreciation" hurst the sales massively, but there isn't anything that could be done in the short term. The cars are no less reliable than the next Audi or BMW, and depreciation seems to be more or less aligned for the Giulia, but people won't realize until they see it.

Some of the most interesting stuff:

- Lacking dealer network: excellent point, if the car has a problem it's an inconvenience (to say the least) having to drive it over an hour to find an authorized service place; It's also a bit of a "circular issue" as it can be maintained that the network is poor because the sales volume is and vice versa...

- The dealers looking shoite: possibly even better than the above; "dealers placed at the rear end of arseland" is an additional aspect of this if you ask me. Back when I lived in Cork, the Lee Garage (old non-descript building in a residential area) closed down and Dan Seaman took the brand...up on Forgehill, on a small nearly invisible road, as hidden away as it possibly gets. It really is the place a gang of robbers would pick for their hideout. Other brands have dealerships in modern building near shopping centres and business parks, or at least visible from major N roads (e.g. Audi in Wilton, impossible to miss).

- Not enough advertising: this is entirely true as well; I don't watch TV at all, so I usually have no idea what's passing on the channels, but I was a bit surprised when I showed the "Ice skating" advert to a few people and they had never seen it - it simply wasn't around here until very recently.

- The price: I see the point, but this one is problematic; the Giulia is already less expensive than the equivalent 3 Series / A4 / C-Klasse for the base models, and the Alfa comes better equipeed for the same price, not to mention with more powerful engines. What would be an "acceptable price" for the 2.0 petrol model? 25k? 30k? Is it that people see Alfa Romeo more on the level of say Opel or Peugeot in terms of "prestige"?
I mean, maybe an idea would've been to come out with a more "back to the basics" model, to appeal especially to those (like myself) who can't be bothered about "infotainment systems" or the "softness of the plastics", but then again - would people just have dismissed the car as "not good enough"? Doesn't look to me like the Kia Stinger, which is exactly that, is actually flying off the forecourts.

Gravelly wrote: »

I do that when I buy an “interesting” used car, but anyone who writes off a brand new €50 or €60k car to nothing as soon as they’ve bought it is either very,very rich, or very, very stupid!

Not "writing off", but I also find it completely crazy to buy a car with "how about when I sell it" in mind; You could total the car tomorrow morning and be left with nothing but debt. To me, it's an indicator that the person simply couldn't really afford the car in the first place and should have bought something second hand.



As a bit of a funny side story, I've also met the extreme version of this - someone who bought a VW Polo and kept it essentially parked for years, as she worried that "putting miles on it would decrease the value"

Avatar MIA

H3llR4iser wrote: »

You could total the car tomorrow morning and be left with nothing but debt.

There's this thing called comprehensive insurance.

But, I'm with him, the resale value should be a thing. And anyone that says, I'd never buy new is effectively reducing or largely mitigating depreciation anyway. They're just considering it in advance.

road_high

See Michael Barrable motors isn't listed as a Fiat dealer any more? Know nothing about him but was surely one of the main Fiat dealers left in Dublin

Zubeneschamali

H3llR4iser wrote: »

someone who bought a VW Polo and kept it essentially parked for years, as she worried that "putting miles on it would decrease the value"

I knew a lad who bought a new Corolla every two years, but never took the plastic wrap off the seats, as he didn't want to devalue the car.


So he drove around for years sitting on plastic wrap so that the next owner could have clean seats!

road_high

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I knew a lad who bought a new Corolla every two years, but never took the plastic wrap off the seats, as he didn't want to devalue the car.


So he drove around for years sitting on plastic wrap so that the next owner could have clean seats!

That wasnt uncommon! I remember seeing that on cars- especially the rear seats if not bring used

ZV Yoda

To add, ahem, fuel to the fire...

The introduction of WLTP emmissions testing means that the vast majority of new Alfas have just moved to more expensive emission bands. Since they were already struggling to sell, they're facing an even more uphill battle. Smart buyers will import a pre-2019 model from the UK (since they'll subject to the pre-2019 system).

It's unbelievable that Alfa management did not anticipate this & refine the engines accordingly. Idiots.

I'd be very surprised if they don't follow Lancia - and just stop making RHD cars altogether.

Eric Cartman

ZV Yoda wrote: »

To add, ahem, fuel to the fire...

The introduction of WLTP emmissions testing means that the vast majority of new Alfas have just moved to more expensive emission bands. Since they were already struggling to sell, they're facing an even more uphill battle. Smart buyers will import a pre-2019 model from the UK (since they'll subject to the pre-2019 system).

It's unbelievable that Alfa management did not anticipate this & refine the engines accordingly. Idiots.

I'd be very surprised if they don't follow Lancia - and just stop making RHD cars altogether.

Almost everyone is going up a co2 band, theres limits on engineering and most have hit them, this isnt exclusively an alfa problem

ZV Yoda

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Almost everyone is going up a co2 band, theres limits on engineering and most have hit them, this isnt exclusively an alfa problem

Maybe so, but Alfa are already higher in CO2 than their equivalent competition (BMW, Merc, Audi) , so as a minimum, it's a missed opportunity to make up ground.

swarlb

When you choose to buy a car based on everything but aesthetics your missing the point of the original design.
Take Lancia for example. Prior to the company being sold in the late 50's, and Fiat acquiring them in the 60's, each car they made shared virtually nothing with the previous model. They built cars with straight 4 engine, then a V4, then a V8, then a V6, a flat 4 and finally back to a V4. Some had transaxles, some had gearboxes attached to the engine, some had front wheel drive, some had rear wheel drive. There was no consistency. Each car was designed from a blank sheet of paper, with little reference to what went before.
As a result they built well engineered cars, and with a sold customer base. However, they made no money and eventually could not compete.
Early Alfa Romeo could be considered along the same lines.
These days the parameters lie around safety, market segment, user friendly media platforms, emissions... the design department is usually the last to be consulted, hence every car looks virtually the same, as designers are afraid to express themselves with something different.
These days people are also afraid to express themselves and follow like sheep.
I was at a football match recently, and if it wasn't for the fact the players wore numbers, I'd be hard pushed to pick them out, they all virtually had the same haircut !

Dr Turk Turkelton

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I knew a lad who bought a new Corolla every two years, but never took the plastic wrap off the seats, as he didn't want to devalue the car.


So he drove around for years sitting on plastic wrap so that the next owner could have clean seats!

That's like the old analogy of the lad not riding his girlfriend so she'd be nice and tight for the next fella!

swarlb

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

That's like the old analogy of the lad not riding his girlfriend so she'd be nice and tight for the next fella!

Why does every thread on Boards have to descend into vulgarity !