Can we talk about AH?

OldMrBrennan83

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Or how about people discuss politics in the politics forum? Or is that the epitome of lazy posting?

Because the politics forum is an absolute mess that does not work at all (one could say by design). Maybe sort that out first, or would it require too much effort?

Mr. CooL ICE

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Because the politics forum is an absolute mess that does not work at all (one could say by design). Maybe sort that out first, or would it require too much effort?

Why bring it up in a thread about After Hours so?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Honestly, who gives a flying crap? This is the complete and utter drivel which should be punted off into space

I thought he made a reasonable point.

I see the thread lock hammer has come out on some fairly innocuous and generally well argued threads in AH recently. Maybe this thread has something to do with that?

OldMrBrennan83

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Why bring it up in a thread about After Hours so?

Because it's the only alternative for the posts that a lot of people are crying about being in AH. Not an adequate one at all, but the only one. That's hardly difficult to grasp is it?

Boom_Bap

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ok so which is the truth here?

Eh, both can be true.

prinzeugen

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Why bring it up in a thread about After Hours so?

Maybe its because AH is the only place some people can post a view. If you have a viewpoint that a certain politics mod doesn't like you are carded and banned for petty things that others get away with. Dispute Resolution is full of complaints about him.

He censors politics and so people post in AH instead.

Timberrrrrrrr

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Both. We're not contradicting each other?

Im sorry for my confusion but can you tell me when the last mod action was in that thread and when the last reported post was?

Skylinehead

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

It's the epitome of lazy moderation. Happens too often all across boards where threads are closed far too quick because it's easier than do the above.

Actually I think we were too lazy not moving it before. Think it's because it just looked like satire. It was anything but.

Lazy moderation is following the charter, which expressly forbids political threads?

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Because the politics forum is an absolute mess that does not work at all (one could say by design). Maybe sort that out first, or would it require too much effort?

That would not be my problem, being an AH mod.

OldMrBrennan83

Nixonbot wrote: »

Actually I think we were too lazy not moving it before. Think it's because it just looked like satire. It was anything but.

Lazy moderation is following the charter, which expressly forbids political threads?



That would not be my problem, being an AH mod.

Indeed it would not. But it's a site problem and feedback is for the whole site. The relation to AH is where posts go that have now been whinged out of AH in this thread, and at the moment there's no actual forum for them to go in relaity.

Mr. CooL ICE

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Im sorry for my confusion but can you tell me when the last mod action was in that thread and when the last reported post was?

Today and today.

Mr. CooL ICE

prinzeugen wrote: »

Maybe its because AH is the only place some people can post a view. If you have a viewpoint that a certain politics mod doesn't like you are carded and banned for petty things that others get away with. Dispute Resolution is full of complaints about him.

He censors politics and so people post in AH instead.

So, get banned from posting politics in Politics, so post politics in After Hours instead? Nope. Not gonna happen.

Timberrrrrrrr

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Today and today.

Thanks

Wibbs

The wider world has changed to some degree, the internet has changed radically, the demographics have shifted too. The nature of online discussion itself has changed. Forums of different opinions are fading in the face of invite only, up/downvote echo chamber type setups. Boards has changed and not just AH, AH just gets the traffic. The old idea of a huge site with hundreds of forums where subjects were kept "on topic" for the forum has changed. The rejig of the dropdown menus really didn't help there. So subjects that would have happily gone to Politics or Humanities or even somewhere like the old Thunderdome are gone.

So AH because of its gravity sucks all that in. Moving threads to say Politics won't work and not because of the forum itself, more that people tend to be lazy and impatient and are accessing the site much more on mobile devices, they just won't bother. Never mind the perception, one that has a lot of truth in it, that any thread moved will wither on the vine. Unless a thread is moved to another high gravity forum like Motors or PI etc they will almost certainly die. Many years ago I predicted that two things would affect the site; copyright and the shrinking of the forums down to a handful, with AH being the last one left standing.

The leadership of Boards has changed radically too. Very very few of the "old guard" remain, the current CEO is and has been almost completely invisible and frankly useless to the community, mods and users alike. A fish rots from the head. It's very different to the days when there was a back and forth between all members of the community. The current AH is just one symptom of that.

Mr. CooL ICE

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I thought he made a reasonable point.

I see the thread lock hammer has come out on some fairly innocuous and generally well argued threads in AH recently. Maybe this thread has something to do with that?

What reasonable point has he made? I posted my ascii dunno guy because people made contradicting complaints about AH regarding political views. He responded to my post with some spiel in identity politics speak that looks like it was ripped from some US based facebook page.

OldMrBrennan83

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

So, get banned from posting politics in Politics, so post politics in After Hours instead? Nope. Not gonna happen.

So why was it ok for years up to now? You'd swear there was always a blanket ban with statements like that.

normanoffside

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

What reasonable point has he made? I posted my ascii dunno guy because people made contradicting complaints about AH regarding political views. He responded to my post with some spiel in identity politics speak that looks like it was ripped from some US based facebook page.

No, I wrote it myself thanks.
Point being AH has become a place where people are called extremists for having normal and sensible views.
Right wing/ far right being the insult Du Jour when the insulters don't even realise they are right wing themselves.

Mr. CooL ICE

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

So why was it ok for years up to now? You'd swear there was always a blanket ban with statements like that.

What was ok? Posting politics in AH? Not in a long time. Not since Politics Cafe was set up as that was originally for the political threads that had started appearing in AH.

There are exceptions made for very topical current events. We had threads around the referendums, brexit. You know, the type of thing that's at the tip of everyone's tongue. But what Gerry Adams and Vladimir Putin had for breakfast? Nope.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

What was ok? Posting politics in AH? Not in a long time. Not since Politics Cafe was set up as that was originally for the political threads that had started appearing in AH.

If I could rollseyes I would. Instead I’ll just say rolls eyes.

There are exceptions made for very topical current events. We had threads around the referendums, brexit. You know, the type of thing that's at the tip of everyone's tongue. But what Gerry Adams and Vladimir Putin had for breakfast? Nope.

This seems like a new direction. That or you weren’t looking at the AH threads recently.

Anyway good luck. It’s a political age. This isn’t that post Cold War era of the 90’s when opinions were less polarised and AH won’t be jolly again, and if it were then that too would be moderated, as it’s a more triggered age too.

Shunting threads into the heavily moderated politics forum or the ridiculous cafe won’t solve that.

Mr. CooL ICE

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

If I could rollseyes I would. Instead I’ll just say rolls eyes.

Umm, why?

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

This seems like a new direction. That or you weren’t looking at the AH threads recently.

Anyway good luck. It’s a political age. This isn’t that post Cold War era of the 90’s when opinions were less polarised and AH won’t be jolly again, and if it were then that too would be moderated, as it’s a more triggered age too.

Shunting threads into the heavily moderated politics forum or the ridiculous cafe won’t solve that.

It's not a new direction at all. What are you on about?

And yes, political threads started in After Hours will continue to be closed or moved. It's a bloody light hearted forum. Light hearted and politics don't exactly mix.

Ultimate Seduction

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Umm, why?



It's not a new direction at all. What are you on about?

And yes, political threads started in After Hours will continue to be closed or moved. It's a bloody light hearted forum. Light hearted and politics don't exactly mix.

Just clicked on to after hours and the very first thread is about nurses payrise. Over 1000 posts. Does that not belong in work and jobs ?

OldMrBrennan83

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Umm, why?



It's not a new direction at all. What are you on about?

And yes, political threads started in After Hours will continue to be closed or moved. It's a bloody light hearted forum. Light hearted and politics don't exactly mix.

You said a few posts back that topical political threads are allowed, unless Brexit, etc are light hearted? Do you even know what the policy is at all or do each of you make it up as you go along?

Mr. CooL ICE

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

You said a few posts back that topical political threads are allowed, unless Brexit, etc are light hearted? Do you even know what the policy is at all or do each of you make it up as you go along?

Did you completely miss the bit I said about 'exceptions' or are you trying to be obtuse?

Mr. CooL ICE

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Just clicked on to after hours and the very first thread is about nurses payrise. Over 1000 posts. Does that not belong in work and jobs ?

It's a pretty topical issue. Exception has been made.

OldMrBrennan83

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Did you completely miss the bit I said about 'exceptions' or are you trying to be obtuse?

You said exceptions and then you said political threads will continue to be closed and moved. You are making it up as you go along. Pure knee-jerk.

Arghus

I've kind of given up on After Hours changing at this stage.

It's still an interesting forum, but it's definitely beginning to go stale.

Posters are definitely allowed to get away with spewing more bile about sections of society than they used to. Most thread that are vaguely "hot-topic" get depressingly hot-take and stoopid the further they go on. There's a lot of stuff on it that would make you despair.

I know people are loathe to listen to people banging on about the halycon days of yore when it comes to AH - it has always been a haven, to some extent, for the maladjusted - but there did seem to be a bit more levity there, even as recently as about two years ago, than there is now.

Then again the place often doesn't help itself.

I don't like criticising moderation in general - it's a lame excuse usually peddled by those who want to be free to scatter-gun insult everything and everyone without any oversight - but there was a harmless thread running in the forum over the last few days named "Have You Ever Regretted reading a book?" It was a good old-fashioned AH thread, plenty of people contributing - BANG! - LOCKED!- MOVED! - "better suited to the literature forum". Okay, strictly speaking that might be true, but all that will happen in the literature forum is that it will die - and there's a lot of other AH threads that strictly speaking could be moved elsewhere, if everyone was being ultra-stringent about it. Come on. What harm was it doing? Taking up valuable real estate where yet another reactionary hot-take fueled thread could lay a claim?

Maybe they are happier leaving AH to be an ugly place.

Ultimate Seduction

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

It's a pretty topical issue. Exception has been made.

Define topical? Plenty "topical" threads have been moved or locked very quickly .

OldMrBrennan83

Arghus wrote: »

I've kind of given up on After Hours changing at this stage.

It's still an interesting forum, but it's definitely beginning to go stale.

Posters are definitely allowed to get away with spewing more bile about sections of society than they used to. Most thread that are vaguely "hot-topic" get depressingly hot-take and stoopid the further they go on. There's a lot of stuff on it that would make you despair.

I know people are loathe to listen to people banging on about the halycon days of yore when it comes to AH - it has always been a haven, to some extent, for the maladjusted - but there did seem to be a bit more levity there, even as recently as about two years ago, than there is now.

Then again the place often doesn't help itself.

I don't like criticising moderation in general - it's a lame excuse usually peddled by those who want to be free to scatter-gun insult everything and everyone without any oversight - but there was a harmless thread running in the forum over the last few days named "Have You Ever Regretted reading a book?" It was a good old-fashioned AH thread, plenty of people contributing - BANG! - LOCKED!- MOVED! - "better suited to the literature forum". Okay, strictly speaking that might be true, but all that will happen in the literature forum is that it will die - and there's a lot of other AH threads that strictly speaking could be moved elsewhere, if everyone was being ultra-stringent about it. Come on. What harm was it doing? Taking up valuable real estate where yet another reactionary hot-take fueled thread could lay a claim? Maybe they are happier leaving AH to be an ugly place.

Exactly. No 'exception' for a thread about reading a book but one made for a thread on nurses pay. Could only assume at this stage it's because they forgot to close/move the latter so are peddling the 'exception' story now.

Or at least, if there is any thinking behind the 'exceptions' then at least publish some sort of guidelines to save people starting or posting in threads that will be sent to die.

Timberrrrrrrr

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

It's a pretty topical issue. Exception has been made.

So

Thread titles
Thread topics
Thread movements
Thread closures

Are basically down to the mods and whatever mood they are in that day? One mods exception is another mods reason to close/move.

Sweetemotion

Just put a warning sign on threads. Don't enter if easily offended and have the heading in spoilers so the little snow flakes don't get triggered or gob smacked from different opinions.

Anyone who is so outraged by a post that they feel it's their duty to report it. Should, just turn off the computer and go for a walk.

Mr. CooL ICE

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

You said exceptions and then you said political threads will continue to be closed and moved. You are making it up as you go along. Pure knee-jerk.

Ah for feck sake...

No, I am not making it up as I go along. Both of those posts can go together and make perfect sense unless you are trying to be as pedantic as possible.