Why Irish do not like apartments

Pretzeluck

Apparently we have the lowest rate of apartment living in whole of European Union. We are the last with 85% living in houses rather than flats. Fascinating, I couldn't imagine myself living in an apartment because I am anti social and don't like seeing other humans but I'm sure most of Ireland isn't that way. Why for example Spain has almost 70% population living in flats while Ireland only has 15%? Why Spaniards seem to be content with apartments while we're not, same with UK which has low amount of population living in apartments.


Edit:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Housing_statistics#Type_of_dwelling

cournioni

Because most of the apartments here are sub standard shoe box dwellings.

jaxxx

cournioni wrote: »

Because most of the apartments here are sub standard shoe box dwellings.

^ This.

Dakotabigone

Do you want to hear Carol riding for an hour 3-4 nights a week?

Atlantic Dawn

Completely different taxation system to Spain.

Pretzeluck

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Completely different taxation system to Spain.

What?

Undividual

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Apparently we have the lowest rate of apartment living in whole of European Union. We are the last with 85% living in houses rather than flats. Fascinating, I couldn't imagine myself living in an apartment because I am anti social and don't like seeing other humans but I'm sure most of Ireland isn't that way. Why for example Spain has almost 70% population living in flats while Ireland only has 15%? Why Spaniards seem to be content with apartments while we're not, same with UK which has low amount of population living in apartments.


Edit:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Housing_statistics#Type_of_dwelling

I don't think its a matter of preference, I think its down to affordability. I'm guessing most families would prefer a house (with a garden) and most young professionals would prefer the low maintenance of apartments. It makes me sad to see Ireland going the way of apartment blocks.

I don't know if the kids-playing-on-the-street culture I had growing up will be around for my kids. Can't imagine playing kick-the-can with apartment blocks.

Pretzeluck

Berties_Horse wrote: »

It's difficult to socialise when you refuse to leave the basement.

We have sherlock holmes over here.

Noxin

Because having to listen to my neighbors is rank.
Because I can't make changes to apartment (want to knock down a wall...? Good luck)
Because no garden.
Because of what @cournioi said.
And again, because having to listen to my neighbors is rank.

sammyjo90

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Do you want to hear Carol riding for an hour 3-4 nights a week?

Thats my mum
And no I don't.


I live in one at the moment and the lack of a garden gets me missing a house and I dont even like gardening!

ExoPolitic

Because of the service charges... a thousand or more euro saved per year in a house than an apartment...

Atlantic Dawn

Pretzeluck wrote: »

What?

€1500 odd a year in service charges, then property tax on top of that and then charges to dispose of waste.

FGR

I think the lack of adequate soundproofing and the threat of low maintenance in common areas would put a lot of people off.

I’ve seen some pricey apartments in France and the USA that are like hotels with 24hr manned reception and well maintained corridors/lifts/rooftop gardens. Things I can’t picture being available here.

Add to that the difficulty of landlords not being able to remove troublesome tenants easily.

Is there a legal minimum standard in Ireland for soundproofing, if any?

PauloMN

cournioni wrote: »

Because most of the apartments here are sub standard shoe box dwellings.

Very true. Any apartments I've been in in mainland Europe have felt like proper homes - spacious, solid, bright, inviting and usually with their own basement storage for bikes, laundry etc.

Any apartments I've been in here have been the opposite - dingy, dark, flimsy feeling (the problem highlighted above with being able to hear everything), small, lacking space (bikes and other crap on balcony) etc.. Of course there are exceptions, but in general any apartment I've been in here has been really poor and horrible.

It's no wonder people want houses (even though the newer "houses" with 3 storeys, no front gardens, communal parking etc. are getting more like apartments anyway!).

blondeonblonde

Noxin wrote: »

Because having to listen to my neighbors is rank.
Because I can't make changes to apartment (want to knock down a wall...? Good luck)
Because no garden.
Because of what @cournioi said.
And again, because having to listen to my neighbors is rank.

Many apartment blocks in Europe allow residents first choice on adjacent properties so knocking through is an option. Garden also should not be an issue if sufficient space in development.

Main issue is size of Irish apartments and esp lack of storage imho. Friends in Denmark live quite happily in 1 bed apt with child but crucially have two huge storage rooms for their own large items.

I own an apartment in Dublin & would be happy to remain long term if only I had suitable storage.

Irish people are not averse to apartments, they have never simply been shown how apartments are properly done.

doolox

This may have a lot to do with it. As mentioned before apartments in Ireland are not as well built or sound proofed as those in other countries and the people are not as obliging to neighbours as you find in other countries. Try making a racket in any medium or small town in foreign parts and you are likely to be brought to task very quickly.

I am always amazed how quickly the night falls and things get very quiet in suburban areas in Spain etc except in the inner strip areas of the resorts but you are quickly told to shut up and keep it down once you leave these areas and get to the more residential areas of the towns.

The downside is that most of these people are up at 7 am in full flow and are not quiet. Don't expect to get long lazy lie ins in most residential areas unless you are deep in the country.

The Irish need to employ surveyors and architects to inspect apartments for sound-proofing and quality of build. The information obtained by these inspections should be used to drive down the prices of shoddy apartments and may drive up the prices of well soundproofed ones. This needs a normal market in which to operate and will not happen in the present abnormal market. A garden shed in the middle of a steel mill forge would attract a buyer, so desperate are people for a house or home of their own. Only the banks and mortgage requirements stand in the way of a complete collapse in standards of noise insulation and build quality. Buyers will not do this on their own.

NSAman

Apartments in Ireland are overpriced and lack amenities compared to many other countries. In the States I have a small place in the city...I rarely stay now as I moved out.

My assessment (service charge) includes electricity, heat, and 24 hour door man, a pool, a gym, and parking. 400 a month. It is completely sound proof, larger than any Irish apartment at 1200sq ft for a one bedroom.

Also I was allowed to redo the space to my taste, move walls etc.

I have had it 10 years, never has it been broken into.

I have had my place in Dublin 8 years and it’s been broken into twice.

It has a balcony that I can use in summer for sitting and cooking on, the one in Dublin is sooooo small and dangerous it is never used.

Oh yeah and it cost 1/4 of the apartment in Dublin .....

Stacksofwacks

Because you can hear your neighbors farting and snoring

Dakotabigone

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Because you can hear your neighbors farting and snoring

You get off on them riding don’t you?

Stacksofwacks

Dakotabigone wrote: »

You get off on them riding don’t you?

and the sessions are so loud you end up going up and having one or two

mrcheez

sure where would you grow ure spuds loike?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Noxin wrote: »

Because having to listen to my neighbors is rank.
Because I can't make changes to apartment (want to knock down a wall...? Good luck)
Because no garden.
Because of what @cournioi said.
And again, because having to listen to my neighbors is rank.

I mean most people live in semi detached houses in urban areas. Hardly an issue.

Plumbthedepths

I'm13 miles away from my place of employment. A pain as it's rural on the plus side it's a 4 bed house on nearly an acre of land. All i hear are cows and sheep. Feel sorry for anyone that has to endure the shoebox lifestyle.

Franz Von Peppercorn

NSAman wrote: »

Apartments in Ireland are overpriced and lack amenities compared to many other countries. In the States I have a small place in the city...I rarely stay now as I moved out.

My assessment (service charge) includes electricity, heat, and 24 hour door man, a pool, a gym, and parking. 400 a month. It is completely sound proof, larger than any Irish apartment at 1200sq ft for a one bedroom.

Also I was allowed to redo the space to my taste, move walls etc.

I have had it 10 years, never has it been broken into.

I have had my place in Dublin 8 years and it’s been broken into twice.

It has a balcony that I can use in summer for sitting and cooking on, the one in Dublin is sooooo small and dangerous it is never used.

Oh yeah and it cost 1/4 of the apartment in Dublin .....

Where’s that, central Detroit?

worded

What’s needed is a BER Version for sound rating.

Apts are good to sleep in not live in

No consideration given to storage in most cases. That’s a lack of respect for the buyer.

The build quality and management companies (some dodgey and often affiliated to the builder covering his back) and fees that are way over the top.

NSAman

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Where’s that, central Detroit?

Chicago....:)

PARlance

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Apparently we have the lowest rate of apartment living in whole of European Union. We are the last with 85% living in houses rather than flats....Why for example Spain has almost 70% population living in flats while Ireland only has 15%? Why Spaniards seem to be content with apartments while we're not, same with UK which has low amount of population living in apartments.

Apparently we don't have many apartments. It's probably the number 1 factor with the above stats.

Dakotabigone

Give it to me Aine, oh yes.

r93kaey5p2izun

It's just so unappealing. No garden, no pets, nowhere to dry clothes, so many rules. I'm sure most people worldwide would choose a house where possible but in countries where there are more apartments built it's probably the only viable option for most budgets. The same will have to happen here.

I have lived in an apartment in Paris and in Ireland. The marked difference was the absence of petty rules in Paris compared to Ireland and the acceptance that people would get on with their lives without being dictated to by busybody resident groups, but at the same time general behaviour was better and more respectful so less need for regulations.

joeguevara

I lived in an apartment bang in the centre of Dublin for 4 years and still own it and rent it out. Absolutely loved living there as it was so central and really felt like home.

It had no soundproofing issues and couldn’t hear any of the neighbors. It had an amazing communal garden area which we used every time the sun was out. Was a bit of an oasis.

Live in a house now and love that too. Each has its pros and cons. With apartments I think it really does depend on the block itself as well as it’s location. Mine was built in the 80s with only 5 apartments on each floor. The build does seem better than newer ones. Your neighbours are also important. My mate spent a fortune on his apartment in sandy ford and in the first night realized that the apartment on either side are occupied by escorts which change on a monthly basis. He regularly bumps into random guys going in. He doesn’t mind too much but would annoy me.

worded

joeguevara wrote: »

I lived in an apartment bang in the centre of Dublin for 4 years and still own it and rent it out. Absolutely loved living there as it was so central and really felt like home.

It had no soundproofing issues and couldn’t hear any of the neighbors. It had an amazing communal garden area which we used every time the sun was out. Was a bit of an oasis.

Live in a house now and love that too. Each has its pros and cons. With apartments I think it really does depend on the block itself as well as it’s location. Mine was built in the 80s with only 5 apartments on each floor. The build does seem better than newer ones. Your neighbours are also important. My mate spent a fortune on his apartment in sandy ford and in the first night realized that the apartment on either side are occupied by escorts which change on a monthly basis. He regularly bumps into random guys going in. He doesn’t mind too much but would annoy me.

You couldn’t have a family with kids living beside that !

So you pay 500 K and are sandwiched by two brothels .... good god no

Sajid Javid

More flats in a bookies biro than apartments.

BeerWolf

Apartments, pft. I'll take the countryside with a large garden any day.

Jimmy Garlic

A lot of apartments built in Ireland are beyond substandard. Falling asunder as little as ten years after they were built, visibly crumbling. The cheapest materials available, corners cut at every oppertunity. Deliberately built to fall apart to give the usual scoundrels another leg up when the time comes in the not so distant future to pull them down, rinse and repeat. A lot of houses built to the same shoddy standards.

Foweva Awone

I've always rented (and probably always will), and I much prefer apartments to houses. I've very little "stuff" so storage space isn't a problem. I'm a woman living on my own, and apartments (up off the ground) feel much more safe and secure than houses, it's nice being able to leave windows open if you want to too. Also I really hate having to look after a garden when living in a house. Not all apartments are badly built, I never hear my neighbours in the one I'm in now, or in fact in most apartments I've lived in previously.

facehugger99

I think there is a significant percentage of ignorant cnuts in Irish society that I would hate to live within a couple of miles of, never mind having them living above me in an apartment.

Mad_maxx

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Apparently we have the lowest rate of apartment living in whole of European Union. We are the last with 85% living in houses rather than flats. Fascinating, I couldn't imagine myself living in an apartment because I am anti social and don't like seeing other humans but I'm sure most of Ireland isn't that way. Why for example Spain has almost 70% population living in flats while Ireland only has 15%? Why Spaniards seem to be content with apartments while we're not, same with UK which has low amount of population living in apartments.


Edit:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Housing_statistics#Type_of_dwelling

Ireland has a remarkably high non urban population, you don't get apartments three miles from a small village in Leitrim.

JohnnyFlash

I like them. I own 5 of them.

Bob24

cournioni wrote: »

Because most of the apartments here are sub standard shoe box dwellings.

While it’s mostly true I don’t think it answers the question of the thread.

Or more precisely it brings up another question : why are Irish apartments geared more towards rental and short/medium term occupancy vs the rest of Europe. The usual answer would be: because the Irish don’t like to buy apartments to live in the long term, which then becomes a circular argument and actually doesn’t explain much.

JohnnyFlash

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I like them. I own 5 of them.

You have actually own five apartments outright? Congrats.

Guy:Incognito

cournioni wrote: »

Because most of the apartments here are sub standard shoe box dwellings.

If you want to see shoe boxes youd want to see the ones I worked on in Norway ( granted, not eu but part of Scandinavia which is hailed as utopia half the time). Glorified bedsits for about 300 grand. The bedroom was a large wardrobe separated from the kitchen/sitting room by a sliding door.

snotboogie

I’ve lived in four different apartments in different cities including Dublin and in 7+ years there was one incident where neighbors were too loud. I went years without hearing neighbors. I now live in a house and the garden is an absolute pain in the hole to maintain.

Irish people still have “de field” mentality. Apartments don’t fit with this, even housing estates don’t. My friend moved from carrigaline (hardly a metropolis) to the arsehole of nowhere because “there were too many people around him” and sometimes politicians or chuggers would call to his door. He now commutes an hour and a half each way to the city, which is an achievement in Cork. Finally he has a great big field around his house, his field, which of course he doesn’t farm and he spends about 20% of his waking life commuting to accommodate de field.

I think the practicalities of urban life are dawning on the generation who are in their early 20’s now and with each passing age group; the SUV to Aldi, ride on lawnmower, country air, ugly McMansion, non farming types will be a rapidly shrinking demographic.

Love apartments. I've got security downstairs, an elevator, and I can't hear my neighbors but rarely. It's easy to keep clean. If I were rich, I'd have a penthouse, not a big house.

But when I'm older, I'll want the countryside again I reckon.

LirW

I'd prefer an apartment over a house any day if they'd have the same quality as apartments on mainland Europe. If I'd have a choice of any reasonable affordable accommodation I'd probably pick a Duplex but so many of them are of poor quality (but the floor plans are good).
Also the service charges are off-putting, we never any of that when I was a child.
I grew up in apartments and it's fine, they can be lovely.
Would love to maintain a nice terrace/balcony instead of the garden I currently have, garden is work and consumes a lot of time maintaining.

But the way many apartments here are I wouldn't consider living in them, so many are too awkward or built poorly with ridiculous rules like you need to put down carpet because wooden floors would disturb the downstairs neighbours with the noise (again, poor quality of the build).

El_Bee

we've tried it, flats in the inner city, ballymun, all disasters.

LirW

El_Bee wrote: »

we've tried it, flats in the inner city, ballymun, all disasters.

Imo people really have to get over the fact that the problem with Ballymun wasn't flats, it was moving problematic people in a high-rise areas with virtually no infrastructure and left them on their own to rot there.
It's not the fault of apartments that Dublin did some phenomenally awful planning in the past.

Bob24

LirW wrote: »

Imo people really have to get over the fact that the problem with Ballymun wasn't flats, it was moving problematic people in a high-rise areas with virtually no infrastructure and left them on their own to rot there.
It's not the fault of apartments that Dublin did some phenomenally awful planning in the past.

Exactly. Thinking that high density housing creates social issues or crime is plain short-sighted (see most of Asia as a counter exemple, with super high density and super safe Singapore and Hong-Kong as the most obvious places to look at).

It might exacerbate those issues to some extend, but they have to be present in the first place and caused by other factors.

no.8

Dakotabigone wrote:

Do you want to hear Carol riding for an hour 3-4 nights a week?

Well that's a typically lazy first comment, the kind very typical of boards.

Depends quite a bit on the build quality wouldn't you say. I've been in Celtic tiger semi-D's where you'd hear the neighbor fart and cough. On the contrary, apartment buildings can have excellent soundproofing, esp. if they are large buildings

no.8

They are generally common recreational areas within large modern apartment complexes. Otherwise, what difference would it make, you are still playing on the road regardless. Fairly weak arguments to date.
It's because it's all we know and tbh its unsustainable long term. Our cities just keep growing outwards while the public transport and infrastructure catches up years later.

no.8

Nice to see some excellent comments on page 2 and 3.

As mentioned, the build quality of apartments aimed at the masses have been dreadful, especially during the previous boom. There were some regulation changes but other than that we don't seem to have a quality which is in-between a shambles and penthouse grade. I'm sure there are exceptions but you see so many which are aging poorly and have next to no space. They offer a huge benefit in a lot of cases, when done properly (e.g. close to transport hubs, shops, underground parking etc.)

no.8

Well that's a conservative mindset if ever I saw one. Every city has its problem areas...regardless of their style of dwelling.