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Why Irish do not like apartments

Pretzeluck

Apparently we have the lowest rate of apartment living in whole of European Union. We are the last with 85% living in houses rather than flats. Fascinating, I couldn't imagine myself living in an apartment because I am anti social and don't like seeing other humans but I'm sure most of Ireland isn't that way. Why for example Spain has almost 70% population living in flats while Ireland only has 15%? Why Spaniards seem to be content with apartments while we're not, same with UK which has low amount of population living in apartments.

Edit:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Housing_statistics#Type_of_dwelling

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Sajid Javid

More flats in a bookies biro than apartments.

BeerWolf

Apartments, pft. I'll take the countryside with a large garden any day.

Jimmy Garlic

A lot of apartments built in Ireland are beyond substandard. Falling asunder as little as ten years after they were built, visibly crumbling. The cheapest materials available, corners cut at every oppertunity. Deliberately built to fall apart to give the usual scoundrels another leg up when the time comes in the not so distant future to pull them down, rinse and repeat. A lot of houses built to the same shoddy standards.

Foweva Awone

I've always rented (and probably always will), and I much prefer apartments to houses. I've very little "stuff" so storage space isn't a problem. I'm a woman living on my own, and apartments (up off the ground) feel much more safe and secure than houses, it's nice being able to leave windows open if you want to too. Also I really hate having to look after a garden when living in a house. Not all apartments are badly built, I never hear my neighbours in the one I'm in now, or in fact in most apartments I've lived in previously.

facehugger99

I think there is a significant percentage of ignorant cnuts in Irish society that I would hate to live within a couple of miles of, never mind having them living above me in an apartment.

Mad_maxx

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Apparently we have the lowest rate of apartment living in whole of European Union. We are the last with 85% living in houses rather than flats. Fascinating, I couldn't imagine myself living in an apartment because I am anti social and don't like seeing other humans but I'm sure most of Ireland isn't that way. Why for example Spain has almost 70% population living in flats while Ireland only has 15%? Why Spaniards seem to be content with apartments while we're not, same with UK which has low amount of population living in apartments.

Edit:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Housing_statistics#Type_of_dwelling

Ireland has a remarkably high non urban population, you don't get apartments three miles from a small village in Leitrim.

JohnnyFlash

I like them. I own 5 of them.

Bob24

cournioni wrote: »

Because most of the apartments here are sub standard shoe box dwellings.

While it’s mostly true I don’t think it answers the question of the thread.

Or more precisely it brings up another question : why are Irish apartments geared more towards rental and short/medium term occupancy vs the rest of Europe. The usual answer would be: because the Irish don’t like to buy apartments to live in the long term, which then becomes a circular argument and actually doesn’t explain much.

[Deleted User]

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I like them. I own 5 of them.

You have actually own five apartments outright? Congrats.

Guy:Incognito

cournioni wrote: »

Because most of the apartments here are sub standard shoe box dwellings.

If you want to see shoe boxes youd want to see the ones I worked on in Norway ( granted, not eu but part of Scandinavia which is hailed as utopia half the time). Glorified bedsits for about 300 grand. The bedroom was a large wardrobe separated from the kitchen/sitting room by a sliding door.

snotboogie

I’ve lived in four different apartments in different cities including Dublin and in 7+ years there was one incident where neighbors were too loud. I went years without hearing neighbors. I now live in a house and the garden is an absolute pain in the hole to maintain.

Irish people still have “de field” mentality. Apartments don’t fit with this, even housing estates don’t. My friend moved from carrigaline (hardly a metropolis) to the arsehole of nowhere because “there were too many people around him” and sometimes politicians or chuggers would call to his door. He now commutes an hour and a half each way to the city, which is an achievement in Cork. Finally he has a great big field around his house, his field, which of course he doesn’t farm and he spends about 20% of his waking life commuting to accommodate de field.

I think the practicalities of urban life are dawning on the generation who are in their early 20’s now and with each passing age group; the SUV to Aldi, ride on lawnmower, country air, ugly McMansion, non farming types will be a rapidly shrinking demographic.

[Deleted User]

Love apartments. I've got security downstairs, an elevator, and I can't hear my neighbors but rarely. It's easy to keep clean. If I were rich, I'd have a penthouse, not a big house.

But when I'm older, I'll want the countryside again I reckon.

LirW

I'd prefer an apartment over a house any day if they'd have the same quality as apartments on mainland Europe. If I'd have a choice of any reasonable affordable accommodation I'd probably pick a Duplex but so many of them are of poor quality (but the floor plans are good).
Also the service charges are off-putting, we never any of that when I was a child.
I grew up in apartments and it's fine, they can be lovely.
Would love to maintain a nice terrace/balcony instead of the garden I currently have, garden is work and consumes a lot of time maintaining.

But the way many apartments here are I wouldn't consider living in them, so many are too awkward or built poorly with ridiculous rules like you need to put down carpet because wooden floors would disturb the downstairs neighbours with the noise (again, poor quality of the build).

El_Bee

we've tried it, flats in the inner city, ballymun, all disasters.

LirW

El_Bee wrote: »

we've tried it, flats in the inner city, ballymun, all disasters.

Imo people really have to get over the fact that the problem with Ballymun wasn't flats, it was moving problematic people in a high-rise areas with virtually no infrastructure and left them on their own to rot there.
It's not the fault of apartments that Dublin did some phenomenally awful planning in the past.

Bob24

LirW wrote: »

Imo people really have to get over the fact that the problem with Ballymun wasn't flats, it was moving problematic people in a high-rise areas with virtually no infrastructure and left them on their own to rot there.
It's not the fault of apartments that Dublin did some phenomenally awful planning in the past.

Exactly. Thinking that high density housing creates social issues or crime is plain short-sighted (see most of Asia as a counter exemple, with super high density and super safe Singapore and Hong-Kong as the most obvious places to look at).

It might exacerbate those issues to some extend, but they have to be present in the first place and caused by other factors.

no.8

Dakotabigone wrote:

Do you want to hear Carol riding for an hour 3-4 nights a week?

Well that's a typically lazy first comment, the kind very typical of boards.

Depends quite a bit on the build quality wouldn't you say. I've been in Celtic tiger semi-D's where you'd hear the neighbor fart and cough. On the contrary, apartment buildings can have excellent soundproofing, esp. if they are large buildings

no.8

They are generally common recreational areas within large modern apartment complexes. Otherwise, what difference would it make, you are still playing on the road regardless. Fairly weak arguments to date.
It's because it's all we know and tbh its unsustainable long term. Our cities just keep growing outwards while the public transport and infrastructure catches up years later.

no.8

Nice to see some excellent comments on page 2 and 3.

As mentioned, the build quality of apartments aimed at the masses have been dreadful, especially during the previous boom. There were some regulation changes but other than that we don't seem to have a quality which is in-between a shambles and penthouse grade. I'm sure there are exceptions but you see so many which are aging poorly and have next to no space. They offer a huge benefit in a lot of cases, when done properly (e.g. close to transport hubs, shops, underground parking etc.)

no.8

Well that's a conservative mindset if ever I saw one. Every city has its problem areas...regardless of their style of dwelling.

Pkiernan

NSAman wrote: »

Chicago....:)

530 murders last year.

El_Bee

LirW wrote: »

Imo people really have to get over the fact that the problem with Ballymun wasn't flats, it was moving problematic people in a high-rise areas with virtually no infrastructure and left them on their own to rot there.
It's not the fault of apartments that Dublin did some phenomenally awful planning in the past.

I'm not really sure what your point is, people were put into high density living areas and it broke down very quickly, It's going to happen no matter what you do, it's part of our cultures.

LirW

El_Bee wrote: »

I'm not really sure what your point is, people were put into high density living areas and it broke down very quickly, It's going to happen no matter what you do, it's part of our cultures.

Medium and high-density living is practiced successfully in many parts of the world for a very long time, the problem is that this was the prime example of creating a ghetto. It was literally built for putting the unwanted away from the rest of society, if that happens in high rise buildings or an accumulation of estates (take South finglas for example) of course it's going to happen that people that have no perspective in the first place turn towards crime and eat themselves alive.

Unfortunately problem areas appear in pretty much every city but it has little to do with high-rise buildings or apartment living, there are many factors why areas turn problematic or attract low-life.

gizmo555

worded wrote: »

So you pay 500 K and are sandwiched by two brothels .... good god no

Well, maybe you could negotiate a discount, as a neighbour :pac:

Franz Von Peppercorn

snotboogie wrote: »

I’ve lived in four different apartments in different cities including Dublin and in 7+ years there was one incident where neighbors were too loud. I went years without hearing neighbors. I now live in a house and the garden is an absolute pain in the hole to maintain.

Irish people still have “de field” mentality. Apartments don’t fit with this, even housing estates don’t. My friend moved from carrigaline (hardly a metropolis) to the arsehole of nowhere because “there were too many people around him” and sometimes politicians or chuggers would call to his door. He now commutes an hour and a half each way to the city, which is an achievement in Cork. Finally he has a great big field around his house, his field, which of course he doesn’t farm and he spends about 20% of his waking life commuting to accommodate de field.

I think the practicalities of urban life are dawning on the generation who are in their early 20’s now and with each passing age group; the SUV to Aldi, ride on lawnmower, country air, ugly McMansion, non farming types will be a rapidly shrinking demographic.

The whole too loud thing makes no sense in a country where most live in houses attached to other houses. (It’s just struck me that the term semi detached is a bit odd). Estates have got to be noisy too.

A lot of the arguments here assume shoddy construction which might be true but was also true for the houses built in the Celtic tigger.

Franz Von Peppercorn

El_Bee wrote: »

I'm not really sure what your point is, people were put into high density living areas and it broke down very quickly, It's going to happen no matter what you do, it's part of our cultures.

You realise there are plenty of Irish people living in high density in Dublin and elsewhere and it’s fine for them.

Bob24

El_Bee wrote: »

people were put into high density living areas and it broke down very quickly, It's going to happen no matter what you do, it's part of our cultures.

To be honest if it is part of any culture for high density housing to cause social breakdown, that culture is just not suitable for any urban modern environment (which is what Dublin is or is becoming).

But I would definitely disagree in saying it is the case with Irish culture.

LirW

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

A lot of the arguments here assume shoddy construction which might be true but was also true for the houses built in the Celtic tigger.

I think part of the issue is that many apartments out there were built during the tiger, they weren't built on such a scale before, therefore the quality is quite shoddy of many of them because they come straight out of cowboy building times.

Nicest place I lived in was a raised ground floor apartment in an old 19th century building that was converted into several units, thick walls and floors between storeys would be concrete, you wouldn't hear a thing.
Also houses aren't built there at all unless you're building yourself, it's apartments all the way in a medium density way with playgrounds, underground carparks and basement storage units.
Also there's very little tolerance on Anti-social behaviour, people have no choice to either behave acceptably or they will not get another place to live in a somewhat nice area ever again.

Mad_maxx

snotboogie wrote: »

I’ve lived in four different apartments in different cities including Dublin and in 7+ years there was one incident where neighbors were too loud. I went years without hearing neighbors. I now live in a house and the garden is an absolute pain in the hole to maintain.

Irish people still have “de field” mentality. Apartments don’t fit with this, even housing estates don’t. My friend moved from carrigaline (hardly a metropolis) to the arsehole of nowhere because “there were too many people around him” and sometimes politicians or chuggers would call to his door. He now commutes an hour and a half each way to the city, which is an achievement in Cork. Finally he has a great big field around his house, his field, which of course he doesn’t farm and he spends about 20% of his waking life commuting to accommodate de field.

I think the practicalities of urban life are dawning on the generation who are in their early 20’s now and with each passing age group; the SUV to Aldi, ride on lawnmower, country air, ugly McMansion, non farming types will be a rapidly shrinking demographic.

I'd love to move to a top location but other half would live in a house in a bog quicker than an apartment.

My sister who is a solicitor in Dublin rents in D4 with her American partner, he would love to buy around the ifsc but she won't entertain the notion of apartment living

conorhal

PauloMN wrote: »

Very true. Any apartments I've been in in mainland Europe have felt like proper homes - spacious, solid, bright, inviting and usually with their own basement storage for bikes, laundry etc.

Any apartments I've been in here have been the opposite - dingy, dark, flimsy feeling (the problem highlighted above with being able to hear everything), small, lacking space (bikes and other crap on balcony) etc.. Of course there are exceptions, but in general any apartment I've been in here has been really poor and horrible.

It's no wonder people want houses (even though the newer "houses" with 3 storeys, no front gardens, communal parking etc. are getting more like apartments anyway!).

Well good news!!!!
https://www.thejournal.ie/apartment-guidelines-3755710-Dec2017/

Genius minister Eoghan Murphy has issued new build guidelines for apartments!
These should make for a more continental living experience and not a rat in a cage experience at all!

Getting rid of the requirement for car parking in certain areas
Increasing the number of units per floor in any development
Greater flexibility in terms of apartment type mix
New provisions for studio-type accommodation

So yeah, basically smaller apartments with fewer amenities. Those proposals are for human warehousing, not human living.

And for those waxing lyrical about wonderful apartment living on the continent.... yeah... fly into Lisbon or over the miles of shabby, crappy, depressing and rotting apartment buildings and you'll see that there's no shortage of grim, pokey depressing holes available there too.

Most people don't desire to live in a box, work in a box and then get buried in one.