Born again Christians preaching on our streets

Huntergonzo

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

Just to clarify :-) there were no 'crazy christians' when this Jew rose up from death, only hundreds of eye witnesses, many of which not his students but ordinary people walking streets when this happened. One of these people was enemy of that new movement who persecuted early believers, Saul of Tarsus.

Ok well crazy 'soon to be' christians then :-)

Anyway how reliable is eyewitness testimony? I've heard it's not great in fairness.

topper75

Believing in the first instance causes a lot of 'seeing'.

ohnonotgmail

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Ok well crazy 'soon to be' christians then :-)

Anyway how reliable is eyewitness testimony? I've heard it's not great in fairness.

and third hand eye witness testimony even less so.

topper75

branie2 wrote: »

I think I saw someone doing something like that in Limerick.

Souls all already saved down here. The city of the arch confraternity!

http://www.limerickcity.ie/media/Confra001.pdf

Hotblack Desiato

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

The book that was written decades after an event, actually foretold this event centuries before it was written??

It's a time traveling book! :eek:

No they're referring to the supposed prophecies of the Old Testament, Jesus was clearly retconned in there. The gospels don't even agree on his lineage

Hotblack Desiato

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

Just to reply to you, I see your point, I used to think the same, but one can hardly choose place of ones birth

No but some guy who happens to have been born in the 'prophesied' place can take advantage of that.

The idea that the Romans would force everyone to return to their place of birth for a census is entirely and utterly ludicrous, so even the biblical 'evidence' of place of birth has to be very questionable

Anyway I don't think anyone can be convinced by arguments alone, their are there but you must add belief , like you will not see if you don't believe

And here we get to the nub of the question. Gullible people believe improbable things without evidence because they WANT to.

The Crowman

The Crowman wrote: »

Dunno about those fellas but Mormon "missionaries" are a real nuisance. Always pestering people outside the main library here in Cork. I can't stand them, all yank young fellas with a smarmy vibe off them.

Invite them for a few pints. When they inevitably refuse and tell you why, wink at them and explain how you can fix that problem for them from the inside after they sneak you in as a member.

Ipso

Are these the evangelical young earth creationist and end times type?

Huntergonzo

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Anyway how reliable is eyewitness testimony? I've heard it's not great in fairness.

The Indian rope trick for one - and the number of people claiming to have been in attendance at a tiny Rory Gallagher gig in cork for another - would suggest that Eye Witness testimony is one of the worst kind out there.

For those that do not know the Indian Rope trick is meant to be the most amazing illusion ever performed in the world of magic. Many people testify to having seen this and confirming how amazing it is. Trouble is - it seemingly does not exist and has never actually been performed by anyone ever.

The "trick" is getting people to claim - and maybe even themselves believe for all I know - they have seen it done. There may even be people who were not there, who actually do believe they were at that Rory gig too.

Ragnar Lothbrok

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

Just to reply to you, I see your point, I used to think the same, but one can hardly choose place of ones birth, the evidence really is overwhelming of him fulfilling all scripture, other thing, old testament is not one book written by one author but many and they didn't know each other nor did they know about different parts that were later assembled as old testament, yet all this work form a unity without contradictions etc. Anyway I don't think anyone can be convinced by arguments alone, their are there but you must add belief , like you will not see if you don't believe, if it's against logic for some, so be it, but it works :-) "the truth will set you free," if someone's interested

I'm an atheist by birth (parents were atheists, so I got no choice!) but I've always had respect for other people's religious beliefs (in general) and find the whole topic of religion quite interesting.

Apart from the contradictions within the Bible, which are well documented, and the contradictions between what is preached and what is practiced (by all religions), I wonder why some people are so determined to take the Bible literally.

I have read that the OT was originally written in Hebrew and the NT was first written in Greek. At some stage later, they were written in Latin and then finally translated into other languages. With each translation, surely something was lost, or added, either by accident or deliberately? It can even be hard to update an older version of a language to a newer version - how many people would understand Shakespeare's English if they read it for the first time without study guides etc?

I often deal with documents that have come from EU sources and you can almost always tell when the document has been translated into English as it doesn't flow as naturally as if it was written by a native English speaker. Sometimes too, there are words or phrases in one language that just cannot be translated into another language.

I suppose the Bible is the answer for people who have belief, but to those of us without belief in the first place, it's nothing more than a story book, no different to Hans Christian Anderson or the Brothers Grimm.

Earthsnotflat

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

I suppose the Bible is the answer for people who have belief, but to those of us without belief in the first place, it's nothing more than a story book, no different to Hans Christian Anderson or the Brothers Grimm.

Yes that's very interesting, I understand, going by my upbringing, wow I should run screeming at only hearing anything to do with religions, yes atheist all the way, raised in very open-minded home and very anti religions to the point of being persecuted for not being religious..
Yes, but still the thing about human dignity and freedom is we can't stop thinking and we (in general as human race) are very opposed to anyone or anything trying to put harness on our thoughts and expression of these thoughts.And rightly so.
So it's good to talk and have different opinions because it's healthy. We do not stone people anymore, but sometimes we stone ideas, just because we don't want to hear them, they offend us..
The more communication the better, but closing people's mouths that's just slippery slope.
I'd like to add one more thing to the defense of bible claims.
As I see it, account of Jesus has not one but 3 categories of witnesses:
1. Eye witnesses 2. God's witness about His Son (at the beginning God....) 3. Scriptures (God's inspired word)
So with this as foundation we are faced with quite simple choice: we either believe God, that if he really exist than what he claims must be truth, or we don't and we believe other people who don't believe either or we believe our own thinking.
But I'm not the one to beat someone with bible, everyone has his own convictions

ohnonotgmail

Earthsnotflat wrote: »

Yes that's very interesting, I understand, going by my upbringing, wow I should run screeming at only hearing anything to do with religions, yes atheist all the way, raised in very open-minded home and very anti religions to the point of being persecuted for not being religious..
Yes, but still the thing about human dignity and freedom is we can't stop thinking and we (in general as human race) are very opposed to anyone or anything trying to put harness on our thoughts and expression of these thoughts.And rightly so.
So it's good to talk and have different opinions because it's healthy. We do not stone people anymore, but sometimes we stone ideas, just because we don't want to hear them, they offend us..
The more communication the better, but closing people's mouths that's just slippery slope.
I'd like to add one more thing to the defense of bible claims.
As I see it, account of Jesus has not one but 3 categories of witnesses:
1. Eye witnesses 2. God's witness about His Son (at the beginning God....) 3. Scriptures (God's inspired word)
So with this as foundation we are faced with quite simple choice: we either believe God, that if he really exist than what he claims must be truth, or we don't and we believe other people who don't believe either or we believe our own thinking.
But I'm not the one to beat someone with bible, everyone has his own convictions

but all of that amounts to only 1 source, the bible. You are basically saying that we should believe the bible because it agrees with itself.

Stephen Gawking

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Stephen Gawking wrote: »

Each to their own when it comes to matters of religion. I always remember sitting in a coffee shop with my wife one morning when i noticed a beautiful young woman staring at me from several tables across. She & her companion (another stunning woman) began staring at me. The first girl gets up from her seat & walks over to our table & sits down.

At this point I'm sweating in case she's someone from my past. Then she says 'i was just sitting over there with my friend when i noticed you, i came over because Jesus wants you to know he loves you & that theres still time for you to repent & save your soul.' This went on for several minutes & she was quite serious. We ended up just leaving because despite asking politely to leave me alone. They followed us to the car. Quite surreal.

Thinly veiled "hot women fancy me" post

I phugging wish mate. Plus with the wife being there...

uck51js9zml2yt

valoren wrote: »

Jesus was not divine. It was attributed to him posthumously. .

And you know that for a fact.....how?

Ipso

Zendaya Cold Incense wrote: »

And you know that for a fact.....how?

Because it hasn't been proven he was.

Terrlock

Jesus tells us in the bible

‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Also he teaches to repent from sinful behaviour and that we should allow God to dwell in our hearts.

One way to look at this, is that it's trying to tell us to better ourselves.

The word repent doens't mean do 5 hail mary's and your grand it means to change from doing what's hurtfull and wrong to yourself or others.

People become trap in bad behaviour....Jesus dies to free us from the burden of sin.

This is that don't dwell on the bad that you have already done...forgive yourself and others...move on and change yourself for the better.

The commandment to love others as yourself....this is very important because a key here is that you have to love yourself first.

I think a lot of people in the world don't love themselves...they hate themselves...are bored of life and just want to do what helps time pass easier for them.

An important message of the bible is to better yourself as a person, and work to help others also too better themselves.

Rather then looking back with regret, work to move forward and don't be afraid to ask for help along the way.

uck51js9zml2yt

Ipso wrote: »

Because it hasn't been proven he was.

I'm not the one saying He wasn't Divine.

Ipso

It's been proven he was?

uck51js9zml2yt

Ipso wrote: »

It's been proven he was.

I'm glad you agree.

Earthsnotflat

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You are basically saying that we should believe the bible because it agrees with itself.

O it's simple but complex. Bible is not ordinary book. We need to make assumptions ie believe that when God says it's truth it is. It's a message from God to His creation, but it's not a geology manual, or history book, it's all about gospel from beginning to end. So if you don't believe that there is a possibility God exists and He might really be the author of Bible, you won't get anywhere in understanding it, because bible is about salvation by Jesus and the only truth about salvation is in the Bible (according to bible). Yes it's a loop but it's the only logical consequence of agreeing that God said this and He cannot lie.
As to how to be sure and prove His existence, well, that's again the same assumption, He cannot lie and He said, 'In the beginning God created heaven and earth...' as we see they do exist.
So Bible is kind of telling us about how God proves His word but it is not proof in itself, there is this this level of letter and of spirit, bible is this spirit, like in a law for ex. There might be different interpretations but what decides is the spirit of the law.
But there is one more very substantial witness on this letter, earth level for everyone to see and to have no doubts. Israel.
There were many other nations and all very religious but God made a point to Israel that they should worship him and him only. Why, because He was the true one who created everything, basically the only one, other nations god's being images of created living things or nature. He talked to them by prophets and mighty miracles. He promised them (and other nations too) Messiah and sent Him. Gave them their land, kept them there when they obeyed but chased them out when they did not, and gathered them back. All as prophesied.He gave them the perfect Law. And made them example for all to see how impossible is to keep all this law and save yourself. But He being perfect still measures us with this law and we all fall short. But that was the plan from the beginning, to send His Son so He died as perfect innocent substitute for us, so God in Jesus can forgive our sins. Thats the gospel. Thats why Jesus was born as Jew, no other nation would believe in Him. And that's why Bible' s integrity doesn't exist in void but in very specific context.