The hazards of Medieval life

Wibbs

gozunda wrote: »

The thing that strikes me most about medievel life was that the majority of people could fend for themselves, grow their own food and hunt. identify and use plants for food and medicine and generally look after themselves.

Something the majority of people can't do today.

Ah they could and they couldn't G. Most people lived in hamlets and villages or large estates and jobs were already specialised enough. You would have the wise woman who knew all the herbs and would be a midwife and lay out the dead, you'd have blacksmiths and carpenters etc. In the bigger towns it got more specialised again, with tanners and butchers and grocers and notaries and writers and all that. Few enough would be growing their own food in the larger towns, maybe keeping a couple of chickens or a pig to fatten up. Generally they'd be buying it in or exchanging goods and services. Monks in monasteries would be fairly close to jack of all trades as the monasteries tended to be self sufficient and usually turned a nice profit with the extra produce they'd sell.

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Wolves
Especially in winter they would harass livestock

We had wolves in Ireland and people employed to actually hunt them down for a bounty. Each pelt was worth money.

Last wolf was killed in Carlow in 1786.

Wolves in Ireland were different to those in the rest of Europe as their reputation as man eaters was well known. The early annals regularly list stuff like "Joe was taken by wolves in winter". The later Scots Planters had a terrible fear of them. Contrary to popular belief, even at the time, wolf attacks on people in the rest of Europe were extremely rare. They were more a boogyman than an actual threat. Much of this came from the earlier religious shift to Christianity, where unlike in the pagan faiths where the wolf was seen as a positive manifestation of nature, in Christianity it was seen more as on the devil's side of the equation. Iconography was big back then, so you have the good shepherd protecting the innocent "lamb of God" and what eats lambs?

Interestingly in Ireland in the early medieval and unlike in Europe the same wolves were often kept as pets and there were regulations around keeping them. Maybe the same local temperament that made them more likely to attack maybe made them more conducive to taming? Less of a fear of people? They also retained the earlier pagan link as a more positive. The Irish word for them MacTire means "son of the land".

archer22

One thing that has always fascinated me are the ring forts...many of them around here where I live, including one with a moat.
It certainly seemed to be a time when you didn't trust your neighbours.

I wonder at what stage in history did this style of homestead building finally cease for the average citizen

gozunda

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah they could and they couldn't G. Most people lived in hamlets and villages or large estates and jobs were already specialised enough. You would have the wise woman who knew all the herbs and would be a midwife and lay out the dead, you'd have blacksmiths and carpenters etc. In the bigger towns it got more specialised again, with tanners and butchers and grocers and notaries and writers and all that. Few enough would be growing their own food in the larger towns, maybe keeping a couple of chickens or a pig to fatten up. Generally they'd be buying it in or exchanging goods and services. Monks in monasteries would be fairly close to jack of all trades as the monasteries tended to be self sufficient and usually turned a nice profit with the extra produce they'd sell.
...

Related more to people in Ireland who lived in dispersed communities. Even in my own lifetime my grand parents were mostly self sufficient and could grow mend fix repair nearly everything themselves. Yeah town people are different - they still are :

Teyla Emmagan

Your teeth would be in bits because they weren't able to mill their flour properly. The bread was full of bits of stone which chipped all the enamel off the teeth. Which sounds really painful.

And no antibiotics.

Capt'n Midnight

Wibbs wrote: »

Wolves in Ireland were different to those in the rest of Europe as their reputation as man eaters was well known.

The last wolf in Ireland was killed in 1786 in Ballydarton, Co. Carlow by a farmer called John Watson, whose sheep were getting eaten.

Wibbs

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Your teeth would be in bits because they weren't able to mill their flour properly. The bread was full of bits of stone which chipped all the enamel off the teeth. Which sounds really painful.

Depending a lot on where you lived and what stone was used for milling. It was n issue for ancient Egyptians, but much less so for medieval Europe. Considering dental treatments were close to nil, even for the wealthy, the teeth of medieval folks, especially among the ordinary people were generally better than in later periods with more sugar and softer stickier foods in the diet. 17th, 18th, 19th even early 20th century teeth were a disaster by comparison. I seem to recall a figure of under 10% dental decay back then compared to 80% for the early 20th century and far less issues with underdeveloped palates and crowding. That may be a comparison of Stone Age folks to modern though.

And no antibiotics.

True, no vaccines either. A horrible level of child mortality because of it. Something that was still going on well into the 20th century. My paternal great grandparents lost three kids in childhood and they were worth a few bob, my maternal grandparents lost one. Few families escaped this terrible statistic. Vaccines and especially antibiotics and more access to medical care(and clean water) made for one of the biggest impacts on human life in our history.

Franz Von Peppercorn

archer22 wrote: »

One thing that has always fascinated me are the ring forts...many of them around here where I live, including one with a moat.
It certainly seemed to be a time when you didn't trust your neighbours.

I wonder at what stage in history did this style of homestead building finally cease for the average citizen

Ring forts are pre medieval. In the medieval age you get the beginning of most of our existing cities and towns. The Viking and Norman towns in particular.

Capt'n Midnight

Wibbs wrote: »

Drownings were also very common among women. They tended to fetch the household water and because they wore woollen clothes if they waded in too deep the wool would suck up a lot of water, become too heavy to move in and they'd perish.

The lack of waterproof clothing and central heating in the past was something that always got to me on a "soft day"

I just couldn't imagine staying dry out on the bog or up in the heather where there's no shelter. It's not like you could go back to your car and turn the heat up on the way home to where you can have a shower and a change of clothes.

archer22

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Ring forts are pre medieval. In the medieval age you get the beginning of most of our existing cities and towns. The Viking and Norman towns in particular.

Yeah thats what I would have thought..but the one with the moat here is in such good condition its hard to believe its really ancient.
The moat even still floods in it...oh well maybe being in boggy land accounts for its very good condition.

Bannasidhe

topper75 wrote: »

Again the barber.

That is why the red and white poles are still outside their shops today.

The white represents your pale backside. The red represents the blood of the lanced boil.

It's why surgeons don't use the title Dr today.
It's because they come from the Barber-Surgeon school of medicine (they had their own guild and didn't go to university), while medical doctors were physics who did do to university (to study the very inaccurate Galen) and they 'acquired' the title Dr which was originally given to those who had reached the highest academic standards in philosophy.
Pharmacists evolved out of the medieval alchemists, they figured out a way to turn small white pills into gold.

Capt'n Midnight

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Your teeth would be in bits because they weren't able to mill their flour properly. The bread was full of bits of stone which chipped all the enamel off the teeth. Which sounds really painful.

And no antibiotics.

Your teeth would be in bits because ... they didn't add a safe level of fluoride to the public water system ? :pac:




A bakers dozen is 13. Because of laws on cheating customers by selling too little bread.


Bakers adding "white stuff" to extend the flour was a thing too.

Have a read of this to see what was added later on. Love this bit on "recycling" tea leaves. :pac:

Spent tea leaves and coffee grounds could be bought for a few pence per pound from London hotels and coffee shops. The used tea leaves were boiled with copperas (ferrous sulphate) and sheep's dung, then coloured with prussian blue (ferric ferrocyanide), verdigris (basic copper acetate), logwood, tannin or carbon black, before being resold. Some varieties of cheap teas contained or were made entirely from the dried leaves of other plants.

Consider that thanks to Brexit the UK might change from EU health rules to US ones, with Chlorinated Chicken, Antibiotic and hormoned Beef, Abattoirs where workers don't have set hour and breaks and GMO etc. And there's concern about US for profit companies making inroads into the NHS.

Capt'n Midnight

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Pharmacists evolved out of the medieval alchemists, they figured out a way to turn small white pills into gold.

Sure that's nothing, nowadays the likes of Intel can turn sand into something far more valuable than Gold.

But like the tales of the medieval alchemists it soon becomes worthless.

Wibbs

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The lack of waterproof clothing and central heating in the past was something that always got to me on a "soft day"

I just couldn't imagine staying dry out on the bog or up in the heather where there's no shelter. It's not like you could go back to your car and turn the heat up on the way home to where you can have a shower and a change of clothes.

Yep and on top of that later in the medieval after a few centuries of milder weather than today, the climate shifted to a fair bit colder than today. Winters were bitter and local famines from failed crops more commonplace.

This actually changed the architecture of larger homes. Where before the local Manor House was essentially a large one roomed great hall structure heated by a big feck off fire at one end, they started to subdivide into smaller rooms that were easier to heat and keep draught free(fortified castles tended to have rooms, but that was more from practicality and defence). Later on when it got colder rich types would add long galleries for walking indoors for exercise cos it was too brassy outdoors. Corridors tend to be a later thing. In most places you went from one room to another through one room and another. You see this in later buildings like Versailles in France. The top echelons and royalty lived in rooms right at the end so people weren't walking through disturbing them.

Introducing more rooms also introduced more privacy. Privacy as we might know it was in much shorter supply back then. People lived on top of each other, even the rich. A kings bedroom was usually filled with him and the queen and maybe a kid or two in the big bed and various retainers sleeping on the floors. Beds themselves changed and were often the most expensive item in a household. Will Shakespeare left his wife their bed in his will and that was once seen as him being a cheap bastard, but it was quite the opposite. The giant four poster beds with heavy curtains was also a response to the climate and lack of privacy. It became a room within a room and some were very ornate. A few made for kings had iron bars around them too, for security. Hot water bottles, or rather copper pans came along too.

Chimneys came in more and more as well. The problem being that in the early days they didn't quite understand proper venting(it's quite a tricky art) so quite often flammable gasses and fine soot would build up in the chimney and all it took was one errant ember flying up and BANG! big explosion, mad fires that spread rapidly among packed together townhouses made of wood and lots of death and gnashing of teeth and feck all fire brigades. The Romans had a fire brigade of sorts, but few medieval towns did. Being burnt to death was all too common. Carbon monoxide poisoning too.

On the privacy thing and the current discussions on how tech is reducing ours, it's easy to forget that for most of human history the type of 20th century privacy we got used to was very rare. Other than religious hermits and some jobs, most led very public lives. So our increasing lack of privacy today may in some ways be a return to the older "natural" state of things. Either way we'll adapt.

Wibbs

Bannasidhe wrote: »

medical doctors were physics who did do to university (to study the very inaccurate Galen) and they 'acquired' the title Dr which was originally given to those who had reached the highest academic standards in philosophy.

And back then when you went to a physic most of the time you told him what was wrong with you and he'd prescribe leeches a course of treatment. Doctors through most of history weren't nearly as respected as today. In Rome jokes about doctors doing people in were some of the most popular. Along the lines of "Last week Hypatius(they were usually Greek and often slaves) was a doctor, he changed professions and today he's an undertaker, his results remain the same", or "Simonides the doctor touched the hand of a statue in the forum today. It dropped dead on the spot". The rich sought out gladiator or military doctors as they were actually pretty good because of years of experience of patching people up.

The idea of doctors being in charge of patients and their diagnosis and treatments came about much later, kicking off around the Napoleonic wars. The French realised that good medical care for soldiers was very important. Obvious now, not so much before that. So they brought in doctors and commissioned them as officers, high in rank too(consultants being highest of all). So most were subordinate to them and so the patient doctor dynamic changed and nurses who had been near enough on the same level dropped down. You can even see this military dynamic in the oddest places. For the geeks among us, take the TV series Star Trek. In it Bones the doctor is the only one who calls the captain Jim as a standard thing and he can remove him or anyone else from duty if he sees it as medically reasonable.

gozunda

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Your teeth would be in bits because ... they didn't add a safe level of fluoride to the public water system ? :pac: A bakers dozen is 13. Because of laws on cheating customers by selling too little bread.

Bakers adding "white stuff" to extend the flour was a thing too.


Have a read of this to see what was added later on. Love this bit on "recycling" tea leaves. :pac: ...

This is still happening This is an ingredient list from one common brand of a standard loaf

Wheat Flour (Wheat Flour, Wheat Gluten, Niacin, Thiamin, Iron, Calcium Carbonate), Water, Yeast, Salt, Soya Flour, Emulsifiers (Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids, Mono- and Diacetyl Tartaric Acid Esters of Mono- and Diglycerides of Fatty Acids, Sodium Stearoyl-2-Lactylate), Preservative (Calcium Propionate), Vegetable Oils and Fats (Palm and Rapeseed), Flour Treatment Agent (Ascorbic Acid)

Bannasidhe

Wibbs wrote: »

Yep and on top of that later in the medieval after a few centuries of milder weather than today, the climate shifted to a fair bit colder than today. Winters were bitter and local famines from failed crops more commonplace.

This actually changed the architecture of larger homes. Where before the local Manor House was essentially a large one roomed great hall structure heated by a big feck off fire at one end, they started to subdivide into smaller rooms that were easier to heat and keep draught free(fortified castles tended to have rooms, but that was more from practicality and defence). Later on when it got colder rich types would add long galleries for walking indoors for exercise cos it was too brassy outdoors. Corridors tend to be a later thing. In most places you went from one room to another through one room and another. You see this in later buildings like Versailles in France. The top echelons and royalty lived in rooms right at the end so people weren't walking through disturbing them.

Introducing more rooms also introduced more privacy. Privacy as we might know it was in much shorter supply back then. People lived on top of each other, even the rich. A kings bedroom was usually filled with him and the queen and maybe a kid or two in the big bed and various retainers sleeping on the floors. Beds themselves changed and were often the most expensive item in a household. Will Shakespeare left his wife their bed in his will and that was once seen as him being a cheap bastard, but it was quite the opposite. The giant four poster beds with heavy curtains was also a response to the climate and lack of privacy. It became a room within a room and some were very ornate. A few made for kings had iron bars around them too, for security. Hot water bottles, or rather copper pans came along too.

Chimneys came in more and more as well. The problem being that in the early days they didn't quite understand proper venting(it's quite a tricky art) so quite often flammable gasses and fine soot would build up in the chimney and all it took was one errant ember flying up and BANG! big explosion, mad fires that spread rapidly among packed together townhouses made of wood and lots of death and gnashing of teeth and feck all fire brigades. The Romans had a fire brigade of sorts, but few medieval towns did. Being burnt to death was all too common. Carbon monoxide poisoning too.

On the privacy thing and the current discussions on how tech is reducing ours, it's easy to forget that for most of human history the type of 20th century privacy we got used to was very rare. Other than religious hermits and some jobs, most led very public lives. So our increasing lack of privacy today may in some ways be a return to the older "natural" state of things. Either way we'll adapt.

The Feudal System we associate with the Middle Ages didn't really take hold in Ireland but one thing we did take to was fortified 'castles' - most of the ones we have in Ireland are technically Tower Houses (essentially a Keep surrounded by a walled Bawn)- usually found where one clans lands meets another's to watch out for people engaging in the traditional Gaelic past time of cattle raiding.
An interesting feature of Tower Houses (apart from the 'Murder Hole') is they have stagger steps. The ground floor would be an undercroft for storage with a wooden ladder that could be pulled up behind defenders, the other floors were connected by stone steps of varying heights usually going in a clockwise direction. The idea being that both attackers and defenders being right-handed this would give the defenders space to swing a sword and different heights of the steps made ascending them tiring and difficult. Some of the steps would be double the height of the previous step and the next step might be barely an inch high. There was one clan - I think it was the Maguires but I may be wrong there - who were predominately left-handed so their stagger steps go in an anti-clockwise direction.

If anyone is ever up Mayo direction Gráinne Ní Mháille's Tower House at Rockfleet is a (fully restored) prime example of an Irish Tower House - just remember to duck your head going through the doors as they too are deceptive for defence purposes, the line of the stone work tricks the eye into thinking they are higher than they are - I once fractured my skull off one and I'm a short-arse who knew I should duck under.

Another feature of the Irish landscape is the Round Tower. We are taught in school that these were built as protection against Vikings - the much lamented departed Viking/Early Medieval Ireland scholar Donnchadh Ó Corráin used to delight in ripping this theory apart by pointing out how the majority of these Round Towers were nowhere near the sea or any navigable river but were usually found at the juncture of traditional clan lands (as are Tower Houses) and then he would read from Viking sources how bemused they were by monks hiding in a giant chimney - few flaming arrows into the wooden door and hey presto - smoked monks. It made no sense to them at all why anyone would think hiding in there was a good idea.

Capt'n Midnight

gozunda wrote: »

This is still happening This is an ingredient list from one common brand of a standard loaf

Ah, but those are minor food grade ingredients. Not a who's-who list of cheap white powers.

Niacin, Thiamin and Ascorbic Acid are vitamins. Iron is a micro nutrient.

smurgen

Thing i think is mad is the sheer level of murder that must have existed.i imagine old ireland or anywhere at the time must have been like the movie the road from a random stranger perspective. Anyone crossing your path could have murdered you and there would have been zero repercussions and know one would have know.

gozunda

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Ah, but those are minor food grade ingredients. Not a who's-who list of cheap white powers.

Niacin, Thiamin and Ascorbic Acid are vitamins. Iron is a micro nutrient.

Was mainly referring to the increasing subsitution of grain flour by soya meal flour - soya meal which interestingly is a by-product of the extraction of soya oil and is mainly used to feed cattle

Capt'n Midnight

gozunda wrote: »

Was referring to the increasing subsitution of grain flour by soya meal flour - soya meal which interestingly is a by-product of the extraction of soya oil and is mainly used to feed cattle

Corn is another thing that they didn't have back then. Today it's used in everything in the US only because subsidies make it cheap..

No corn, no spuds, carrots were purple, no tomatoes. So how did the Romans have proper pizza ?

Lots of modern staples just wren't on the menu. So plenty of peas and beans and turnips instead.


And your local church took 10% of everything. On top of that a lot of people paid rent to the local monastery. In England you'd have to practice the Longbow every Sunday for pretty much the whole day. skeleton changing stress.

Bannasidhe

smurgen wrote: »

Thing i think is mad is the sheer level of murder that must have existed.i imagine old ireland or anywhere at the time must have been like the movie the road from a random stranger perspective. Anyone crossing your path could have murdered you and there would have been zero repercussions and know one would have know.

Far from it in Ireland.
The Clan was responsible for the beheaviour and protection of every single member (this was literally outlawed by the Tudors) meaning the whole clan was liable if a member committed a crime and if a crime was committed against a member it was considered to be a crime against all the clan.
Any Chieftain who didn't act swiftly if a member of his clan was murdered would soon be out of a job (they were elected).
All crimes were punishable by having the clan of the offender pay compensation and every person had an agreed known value (Anglo-Saxons had a similar system) - a child under 7 was of the same value as a monk as they had potential to be anything - murdering a noble could bankrupt the offenders Clan. This meant serious loss of status which was the worst possible thing that could happen to any clan. It meant they could no longer make marriage alliances with powerful clans and so couldn't call on their assistance.

If the offenders clan refused to pay interest accrued. If they still refused to pay the clan of the victim could legally kill a member of the offenders clan of the same social status - obviously they would chose someone the offender's chieftain was fond of to drive the point home.
Non-Nobles rarely strayed out of the Clan lands (remember we are talking about areas the size of counties) so were unlikely to be murdered by an outsider. Nobles tended to only enter another clans lands with permission (if on legitimate business and they would get the permission of that Chieftain first so were under his protection) or to steal cattle... which the other clan would also be doing. The cattle of Ancient Ireland must have been exhausted.

Those who committed serious offences (like murdering a fellow clan member or an expensive outsider,) were banished. They became clanless and outside the law. Meaning they no longer had an assigned value - literally they were worthless. They could be killed by anyone without repercussions. They were known as Wood Kerns as they lived in forests usually.

The Gaelic Irish considered their Clan to be their Race, and their land to be their Country (those are the terms the used - in Gaelige obviously) and other clans were, in their eyes, foreigners who lived in foreign lands - might be allies, might be enemies - that varied from generation to generation.

Most violent deaths occurred during cattleraids - which was considered fair enough if unfortunate, or in battle. The point of most battles was one clan seeking to dominate another and get them to pay tribute (or to try and avoid paying tribute as the case may be) The Gaelic Irish rarely attempted to conquer other clans lands (Boru being a notable exception) - they preferred to kick the crap out of them and make them pay 'black rent' (i.e lots of cattle and other valuable goods) every year. Profitable with none of the hassle of admin etc.

The last pitched battle in Ireland that wasn't to do with English conquest in one form or another was when the Fitzgeralds of Kildare bate the living daylights out of the Burkes of Galway at Knocktoe in 1504 - one of the causes (there were a few) was because Ulick Fionn Burke (Chieftain of the Burkes of Clanrickarde) was married to the daughter of Gerald Mór FitzGerald, Earl of Kildare, and he beat her. That was equivalent to beating the Earl himself.

gozunda

Bannasidhe wrote: »

...

Most violent deaths occurred during cattleraids - which was considered fair enough if unfortunate, or in battle. The point of most battles was one clan seeking to dominate another and get them to pay tribute (or to try and avoid paying tribute as the case may be) The Gaelic Irish rarely attempted to conquer other clans lands (Boru being a notable exception) - they preferred to kick the crap out of them and make them pay 'black rent' (i.e lots of cattle and other valuable goods) every year. Profitable with none of the hassle of admin etc.

The last pitched battle in Ireland that wasn't to do with English conquest in one form or another was when the Fitzgeralds of Kildare bate the living daylights out of the Burkes of Galway at Knocktoe in 1504 - one of the causes (there were a few) was because Ulick Fionn Burke (Chieftain of the Burkes of Clanrickarde) was married to the daughter of Gerald Mór FitzGerald, Earl of Kildare, and he beat her. That was equivalent to beating the Earl himself.

You have to love the ol' cattle raiding thing. It was almost a national pastime tbh. It must have been great Craic altogether

Bannasidhe

gozunda wrote: »

You have to love the ol' cattle raiding thing. It was almost a national pastime tbh. It must have been great Craic altogether

One of the things the Tudor adventurers complained about was that the Gaelic nobility stationed themselves on horseback behind their foot soldiers - to the Tudors this was cowardice. But the actual reason was that this was the common skirmish formation as traditionally any attack was likely to be the owners of the cattle chasing you to try and get them back.
Cattle in front. Cavalry at the back. Run like a bat out of hell to your own clan lands. Makes perfect sense.

Yeah, cattle raiding sounds like great craic. In the Summer months while the women, children, and elderly (although raiding aged 80 is recorded), went off 'booleying' - which was moving your own cattle to temporary summer pastures - the men spent their time in cattle raids - no doubt drunkenly well planned affairs.

The O'Flaherty's of Muycullen used to drive their acquired cattle out to the islands off the Galway coast - imagine that picture. Drunks in currachs trying to get 100 head of cattle to swim to an island a mile away while equally drunk men on horses were trying to get them back off you. Jayzuz Domhnaill - would you row faster the feckers have flaming arrows!

gozunda

Bannasidhe wrote: »

One of the things the Tudor adventurers complained about was that the Gaelic nobility stationed themselves on horseback behind their foot soldiers - to the Tudors this was cowardice. But the actual reason was that this was the common skirmish formation as traditionally any attack was likely to be the owners of the cattle chasing you to try and get them back.
Cattle in front. Cavalry at the back. Run like a bat out of hell to your own clan lands. Makes perfect sense.

Yeah, cattle raiding sounds like great craic. In the Summer months while the women, children, and elderly (although raiding aged 80 is recorded), went off 'booleying' - which was moving your own cattle to temporary summer pastures - the men spent their time in cattle raids - no doubt drunkenly well planned affairs.

The O'Flaherty's of Muycullen used to drive their acquired cattle out to the islands off the Galway coast - imagine that picture. Drunks in currachs trying to get 100 head of cattle to swim to an island a mile away while equally drunk men on horses were trying to get them back off you. Jayzuz Domhnaill - would you row faster the feckers have flaming arrows!

I have a friend who created a board game called 'cows on the run' based on cattle raiding. Brilliant game to play after a couple of drams of whiskey. Tried to get them to put it on the market, but never did.

Franz Von Peppercorn

As much as we disparage these people, remember — they built gothic churches and we built Celtic tiger apartments

nice_guy80

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Ring forts are pre medieval. In the medieval age you get the beginning of most of our existing cities and towns. The Viking and Norman towns in particular.

Not true
A lot of ringforts built ring through early and mid medieval period
It varies for each part of the country

Bannasidhe

gozunda wrote: »

I have a friend who created a board game called 'cows on the run' based on cattle raiding. Brilliant game to play after a couple of drams of whiskey. Tried to get them to put it on the market, but never did.

Wibbs

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Another feature of the Irish landscape is the Round Tower.

Mad thing about them is they have very shallow foundations, like a foot deep kinda thing. They were also regularly hit by lightning and the top blown off. The other thing that was taught "in my day" was their true purpose was unknown. Were they defensive - like you said a daft idea, a storehouse of sorts - possible some writings suggest that important religious items were kept there and the high doorway(not found in all of them) was a platform for exposition of relics and such to assembled crowds.

The annals themselves are quite clear, they're named as bell houses(though possibly stone houses). A couple of lads up at the top ringing handbells through the open windows calling monks and the faithful to prayer at specific times. Prestige was another aspect of course as they were the tallest buildings around by some measure. They would have been so so as lookout points as the windows openings at the top were small and the walls thick enough so field of view is limited. A few were later converted to flat topped battlements. Way back in my youth I was brought into the example in Clondakin in Dublin(smelled of damp and pigeon poo) and you can see remarkably little out of the top. Even then I thought how many changes has this old thing seen. It's an unusual one as it still has its original top. The only one that has IIRC. The one in Glendalough was rebuilt in the 19th century. Not bad for a thousand years plus old. And even today it's still bloody high.

The earliest ones were built using pretty much neolithic building techniques with the addition of mortar. Though the monks were well travelled and had lots of classical sources for building and the like, they never seemed to bother using them. At the beginning anyway. EG they knew about the arch, but in early ones they made the tops of door frames from lintels, but carved an arch into it. Later round towers were much more finely built. The last of them built in Ardmore Co Waterford is one such example, with fine stone dressing and more contemporaneous construction. It was built not far off the time the much fancier(cos Italians ) Leaning tower of Pisa went up. Funny thing is both lean, though the Irish one hasn't needed saving from itself. So far...

Duckworth_Luas

If you look at medieval artwork, the Bayeux Tapestry for example, you will see images of people who appear to be walking on their tiptoes.


I always assumed that this was just a goofy art standard of the time.

As it turns out this is how people used to walk at those days.

Before the advent of shoes with hard soles, people in the middle ages wore what were basically leather socks.

Instead of stepping heel first, as we do now, they led with their toes and stepped with the ball of the foot first. This allowed them to "feel" what may be hidden from the eyes and prevent them from stepping on anything dangerous.

This apparently is the natural way of walking and is healthier for the skeletal structure. If you were to take off your shoes and go for a walk in long grass it is how you would naturally walk.

In the 1500s cities and towns began to pave their streets which led to the introduction of heeled shoes, which changed the way we walk.

If you go to a medieval folk park in central Europe this is how the goofballs there walk.

Buford T. Justice XIX

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Not true
A lot of ringforts built ring through early and mid medieval period
It varies for each part of the country

A lot of ring forts were used to keep stock in at night. Outside in the open countryside, they could be scared into running long distances away or attacked by predators like wolves, foxes and humans.



They would be left out by day to graze the non cropped/grass for hay areas under supervision and brought in by night where one or two people could keep an eye on them in safety.


The bigger ring forts were for bigger herds/flocks and smaller ones for smaller farmers. We have 2 ring forts here, one was still used for cows close to calving by night in my grandfathers time as it was close to the dwelling house.