The hazards of Medieval life

Odhinn

For those interested



https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/45529.Montaillou


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Distant-Mirror-Calamitous-14th-Century/dp/0241972973/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1547939406&sr=8-1&keywords=barbara+tuchman+a+distant+mirror

Capt'n Midnight

harry Bailey esq wrote: »

Philosopher=Professional arse scratcher. Ireland is abundant with them currently, it's a bit of stretch to believe that there was no lazy cu*ts in medieval times. There where philosophers aplenty though.

“What's a philosopher?' said Brutha.
Someone who's bright enough to find a job with no heavy lifting,' said a voice in his head.”

...

"If you spend your whole time thinking about the universe, you tend to forget the less important bits of it. Like your pants. And ninety-nine out of a hundred ideas they come up with are totally useless.”

“Why doesn't anyone lock them away safely, then? They don't sound much use to me,” said Brutha.

“Because the hundredth idea,” said Om, “is generally a humdinger.”

“What?”

“Look up at the highest tower on the rock.”

Brutha looked up. At the top of the tower, secured by metal bands, was a big disc that glittered in the morning light.

“What is it?” he whispered.

“The reason why Omnia hasn't got much of a fleet any more,” said Om. “That's why it's always worth having a few philosophers around the place. One minute it's all Is Truth Beauty and Is Beauty Truth, and Does a Falling Tree in the Forest Make a Sound if There's No one There to Hear It, and then just when you think they're going to start dribbling one of 'em says, Incidentally, putting a thirty-foot parabolic reflector on a high place to shoot the rays of the sun at an enemy's ships would be a very interesting demonstration of optical principles,”
― Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

Wibbs

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The Inquisition had rules whereas the civil authorities didn't so people would choose to go to the Inquisition if they had a choice.

Plus they came from a strong theological position that souls must be saved and were capable of salvation, so an unrepentant "sinner" was seen as a failure and the death of an innocent a mortal sin. They overwhelmingly acquitted accused and at a much higher rate than the civil courts. The civil authorities did have rules and rules that had come from Roman and Byzantine legal laws and precedent, but often the problem was the judge, usually a local noble, often too busy, bored or plain batshit crazy to render much in the way of justice and legal representation was nil unless you had a few quid. Hence so many sought sanctuary in a church. Much more survivable and church sanctuary also meant freedom from arrest by the arms of the state. The church would also provide legal representation.

nice_guy80

That's only in medieval towns

Majority of Gaelic Ireland lived out in the countryside
It's why the Black Death didn't really affect their society while thr Anglo Normans were decimated.
The filthy feckers

nice_guy80

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

Ending up in a trebuchet..

Actually knowledge of how to build them was largely forgotten by the medieval times.

Capt'n Midnight

Conscription was a risk , from your local "nobility" and in dem days they didn't take prisoners.



Sailors didn't have an easy life either
as recently as 1876 the Board of Trade recorded that 856 British merchant ships were lost within ten miles of the British coast, in conditions that were no worse than a strong breeze.

Thousands of lives were lost annually in the North Sea alone.


On the triangular slave trade from Africa to America sailors had a survival rate comparable to the slaves.


One can't imagine it was better when life was even cheaper.

Marengo

Just my first post here, but if we're talking Gaelic Ireland around 1300, constant fighting. With the Normans as the Gaelic Revival took place. With other Gaelic clans, and worst of all the infighting within the clan, the derbfhine, as factions fought over electing a chief.

Canis Lupus

The thought of women with hairy legs/armpits. Gross.


#toxicmasculinity.

nice_guy80

Deleted User wrote: »

Not that anybody would like to generalise about a thousand-year period covering thousands of kilometres and enormous socio-economic and cultural variation but the middle ages were grand in large parts. Much, much quieter than the modern world and all the noise we accept since the rise of the motor vehicle. Just imagine how quiet the world was before its invention.

Also, there were far fewer deaths from warfare then than today for many obvious reasons. The first of these being low populations. This had enormous consequences for the rights and quality of life of tenants and indeed everybody. Because populations were low, an invading lord did not, contrary to common misconception, want to kill as many people as possible. Instead, he sought their submission to his overlordship and to profit/expand his power from using them. This was particularly true in Gaelic Ireland, and also the reason cattle were so prized in the Gaelic world - cattle were in shorter supply than land so this greater scarcity made them more valuable and thus cattle rather than land were the target of raids. So, it wasn't "always about land" in Irish history. Accordingly, the number of cattle you had rather than the extent of your landholdings played a greater role in determining your social status.

In essence, though, the idea of the middle ages being 'barbarous' is misleading wherever low populations existed. The "savage tribes" then, as today, were considerably less capable of inflicting death than the "civilising" forces coming towards them. It was only from the 1550s in Ireland anyway where a cultural change in warfare as one of extermination of an 'inferior' people, who were now expendable because they were going to be replaced by new settlers, replaced the traditional medieval concept of warfare where submission was usually the aim. This rising death toll was helped by an improvement in military technology in the early modern period.

It's no coincidence that in western Europe particularly after the Black Death in the mid-fourteenth century, the rights of all workers improved hugely. On the eve of it, many parts of Europe were actually overpopulated so the Black Death had an obvious positive consequence for survivors. Why? Demand and supply; with about one-third of Europeans killed by it, workers were able to demand more rights in exchange for their work.

Also, Gregorian Chant is still absolutely stunning. And matins in the morning, vespers in the evening, having a mill in each village...

Wealth was moveable in Gaelic Ireland up until the 1600s in the form of cattle.

The Normans invested in stone and timber fortifications to prevent attack whereas the Gaelic lords would just flee to another small castle in the hills or their local allies with their retinue and cattle
Gaelic lords often had very modest dwellings up until they started to copy Elizabthan type landowners

nice_guy80

Marengo wrote: »

Just my first post here, but if we're talking Gaelic Ireland around 1300, constant fighting. With the Normans as the Gaelic Revival took place. With other Gaelic clans, and worst of all the infighting within the clan, the derbfhine, as factions fought over electing a chief.

Was always fascinated with the idea that Gaelic lords and kings mating with the earth stone during their coronations
There are loads of these ceremonial mounds and hills around the country

Marengo

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Was always fascinated with the idea that Gaelic lords and kings mating with the earth stone during their coronations
There are loads of these ceremonial mounds and hills around the country

I believe the O'Donnell crowning involved mating with a horse and killing and eating that animal:eek:

Studied history in college and that particular lecture from 1993 sticks in my mind..

Marengo

Canis Lupus wrote: »

The thought of women with hairy legs/armpits. Gross.


#toxicmasculinity.

We'd be wired slightly differently to find that attractive to ensure survival of the race:)

Shur it's still like that in Laois:D

nice_guy80

Fish ponds were very common near castles and estates along with rabbit warrens and orchards
The Normans were very good at horticulture and introduced a lot of plant species to Ireland and of course, rabbit.

Capt'n Midnight

Canis Lupus wrote: »

The thought of women with hairy legs/armpits. Gross.


#toxicmasculinity.

on the plus side a lot less STD's

Canis Lupus

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

on the plus side a lot less STD's

But if you did get one you were stuffed.

Marengo

Canis Lupus wrote: »

But if you did get one you were stuffed.

I'd be dead at 5 with asthma and bronchitis.

When contemplating God or a greater being i used often reason that of all the generations of mankind, say 150 over 5,000 years, i was born in the one generation where i could survive. It used to make me feel special and i had a purpose:D:D No giggling please:D

Someone died of a chest related sickness in my dad's generation in the 1920s, his uncle in 1918 flu epidemic, his granduncle 1873 and his great granduncle in 1839.

SlowBlowin

Anyone know was arse wiping performed (aside from using Baldric's shirt), can't find any details on that anywhere ?

Be nice to know, just in case we enter the dark ages again.

SB

Wibbs

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Anyone know was arse wiping performed (aside from using Baldric's shirt), can't find any details on that anywhere ?

Be nice to know, just in case we enter the dark ages again.

SB

Well, before paper tissue all sorts of things were utilised. The Greeks used pebbles or bits of broken crockery. :eek: The Romans used a sponge on a stick, dipped in vinegar. Others used tufts of grass, straw, rag and the like. Rag being for the more well off, as rag was worth something. It was used in paper making. The "Rag and Bone" man would collect it. Rags for the paper, bone for a few uses including fertiliser.

RMAOK

Wibbs wrote: »

The Greeks used pebbles or bits of broken crockery. :eek:

:eek::eek::eek:

Jaysus, that'd be some pain in the hole. :eek:

SlowBlowin

Wibbs wrote: »

The Romans used a sponge on a stick, dipped in vinegar.

My hemorrhoid would not like that !!

SB

take everything

Great thread.
Makes you think and put things in perspective

take everything

Also, given that we're descendants of such hardy folk, it makes you wonder how great our potential is to adapt and survive.

Canis Lupus

take everything wrote: »

Also, given that we're descendants of such hardy folk, it makes you wonder how great our potential is to adapt and survive.

And nowadays if the adverts are anything to go by we literally can't survive without everything being antibacterial.

gozunda

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Anyone know was arse wiping performed (aside from using Baldric's shirt), can't find any details on that anywhere ? Be nice to know, just in case we enter the dark ages again.
SB

In Ireland dock leaves were always a perennial favourite. In winter dried grasses or other vegetation. In Roman Britain and the rest of the empire a sponge on a stick kept in vinegar for disinfection purposes.

Even today in many less developed countries a hand is used and then washed and this is why in some cultures to greet someone with the 'wrong' hand is seen as offensive.

Eamonn8448

Old tradition (prob medieval) for poaching salmon here in the south west involves crushing the leaves of a certain plant, works a treat and does not poison the fish only irritates their gills and brings them to the surface - still in use in certain rivers down here to this day lol

gozunda

The thing that strikes me most about medievel life was that the majority of people could fend for themselves, grow their own food and hunt. identify and use plants for food and medicine and generally look after themselves.

Something the majority of people can't do today.

nice_guy80

Wolves
Especially in winter they would harass livestock

We had wolves in Ireland and people employed to actually hunt them down for a bounty. Each pelt was worth money.

Last wolf was killed in Carlow in 1786.

mikemac2

Lot of posts here about hygiene

While not medieval, from the 1860’s onwards there was a craze to build Turkish baths though a few were in Ireland already

Here is a photo of one in Lincoln Place Dublin 2 built in 1860. James Joyce called it “the Mosques of the baths” in a book. Sure you’d think you are in Constantinople. Bray, Cork, Waterford had Turkish baths too as well as the rest of the country and there were accessible to all, even the poor.

The Dublin one was demolished in the 1970’s by reckless developers. Ah a lot of areas were destroyed in the 1970’s

archer22

It was also a time when most warmongers actually went into the front line with their soldiers and ran the same risks.
They didn't expect anything of others that they weren't prepared to do themselves.

You got to give them credit for that...unlike those loudmouths of today

Collie D

That Turkish baths is amazing. Lifelong Dub and never knew of it although it was gone before I came along.