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is Terminal 2 a good design

  • 15-01-2019 1:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭


    Hello All

    I fly regularly out of both terminals. I cannot decide for myelf whether T2 is a good design or in a good location, perhaps those who work there could give their opinion.

    Will the New runway eventually require a third terminal?


    Was building T2 west of Terminal 1 ever feasible

    If building a light railway or Metro happens ,is there a place allocated now for it?


    I once was called a DAA spy/troll for saying that both terminals worked fairly well for me,esp the carry on bag bag screening part where DAA obviously put on more staff when needed, max 20 mins to get through on the worst day.

    Small gripe with possible answer, Why does DAA leave the announcement of my gate till quite late, esp in the early morning when the plane was lying there all night. I expect its to keep numbers low at the gates and keep spenders at the shops


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭NH2013


    T2 is well designed and works well, but it's location is neither well thought out or practical. Very limited space for expansion and resulted in large numbers of taxiway cul-de-sacs being made slowing airport aircraft operations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭plodder


    rugbyman wrote: »
    Hello All

    I fly regularly out of both terminals. I cannot decide for myelf whether T2 is a good design or in a good location, perhaps those who work there could give their opinion.

    Will the New runway eventually require a third terminal?


    Was building T2 west of Terminal 1 ever feasible

    If building a light railway or Metro happens ,is there a place allocated now for it?


    I once was called a DAA spy/troll for saying that both terminals worked fairly well for me,esp the carry on bag bag screening part where DAA obviously put on more staff when needed, max 20 mins to get through on the worst day.

    Small gripe with possible answer, Why does DAA leave the announcement of my gate till quite late, esp in the early morning when the plane was lying there all night. I expect its to keep numbers low at the gates and keep spenders at the shops
    The current T2 surface car park is the eventual location for the Metro station afaik.

    Sooner or later, expansion to the West will have to happen I presume. I'm not sure what the answer for landside connectivity between any terminals on that side and public transport links on the east side will be though.

    I think T2 is a good location. Being next to T1 obviously allows great flexibility in gate access and other things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta


    As a passenger I find T2 pretty good, I like the light and airiness. However I find the selection of shops and restaurants is quite poor (I generally don't use them hence I think they're ok). It seems that there is a lot of wasted space in the terminal that in other airports they would have reconfigured with more shops by now. However it is that 'wasted space' that gives all the light and allows you to move through quickly and hassle-free. I'd hate to see them go the way of some of the UK airports where you're forced through shops like Birmingham for example.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,019 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I never really understood why they didn't try and design out the level changes required by passengers in T2. Yes I know there's an access road to T1 to get around but there were other solutions that could have dealt with that.

    The terminal is pleasant, but the number of level changes required required is a flaw imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭troyzer


    rugbyman wrote: »
    Hello All

    I fly regularly out of both terminals. I cannot decide for myelf whether T2 is a good design or in a good location, perhaps those who work there could give their opinion.

    Will the New runway eventually require a third terminal?


    Was building T2 west of Terminal 1 ever feasible

    If building a light railway or Metro happens ,is there a place allocated now for it?


    I once was called a DAA spy/troll for saying that both terminals worked fairly well for me,esp the carry on bag bag screening part where DAA obviously put on more staff when needed, max 20 mins to get through on the worst day.

    Small gripe with possible answer, Why does DAA leave the announcement of my gate till quite late, esp in the early morning when the plane was lying there all night. I expect its to keep numbers low at the gates and keep spenders at the shops

    This is it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,785 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    T2 is a nice terminal to fly out of. But it is built in the wrong place and as far as I know the DAA was recommended not to build it there, but they did anyway. Makes the taxi-ways very difficult to deal with and can't be expanded to the south or the west.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    The footprint of the airport will double it's existing size and the second runway will force it that way, West it is........ Personally, as someone who works in the airport, T2 is a mess. When you think of your footfall, as a passenger, entering T2, it's a joke. Once you have checked in, you are then faced with an Indiana Jones trail that makes you ascend, wind back and forward thru security, switchback thru the shopping area, then descend steeply to the airbridges. It must be 2 km before you get to your nearest aircraft, assuming you haven't stopped for a pee or a coffee or to buy ****e. If you have to transfer yourself over to T1, stand by for more footwork as you walk through a noisy tunnel scabbed onto the original building before you have another up-hill-and-down-dale journey to your aircraft. You really have earned the Boy Scout badge for hillwalking by the time you get to your aircraft. If you work inside the building, you will discover a rabbit warren of badge operated doors, identically painted but unmarked doors. You had flight ops, loaders, cabin crew, shop staff, all wandering around trying to find the way out once they got inside the warren. One time, I brought an item of lost property from an aircraft to the LP office and I reckon it took seven badges swipes each way, because of constant level changes and direction changes.I reckon you could film an entire Bond movie inside T2 because the baddies and Bond would get so lost that they'd be chasing each other for days.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I find it a somewhat poor design I find it a bit too big and spread out as the gates aren't near enough to the security and check in area. Also too many ridiculously long escalators which I think are a bit of a safety hazard if someone was to fall on one which I've heard has happened.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    troyzer wrote: »
    This is it.

    I travel out of T1 quite a bit but always clear security in T2. They always have the gate number for the T1 departures on the screens in T2 but when I walk up to T1 the screens always say gate will be announced at XX:XX (approx STD -1hr).


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,368 ✭✭✭VG31


    I travel out of T1 quite a bit but always clear security in T2. They always have the gate number for the T1 departures on the screens in T2 but when I walk up to T1 the screens always say gate will be announced at XX:XX (approx STD -1hr).

    You can see the gate numbers for the whole day in the Dublin Airport app.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭Shamrockj


    As a passenger the pier itself is nice but the stand and taxi way layout is insane and built in an area that doesn't allow any expansion at all. I also don't get departures being 2 floors above check in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,486 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    LiamaDelta wrote: »
    As a passenger I find T2 pretty good, I like the light and airiness. However I find the selection of shops and restaurants is quite poor (I generally don't use them hence I think they're ok). It seems that there is a lot of wasted space in the terminal that in other airports they would have reconfigured with more shops by now. However it is that 'wasted space' that gives all the light and allows you to move through quickly and hassle-free. I'd hate to see them go the way of some of the UK airports where you're forced through shops like Birmingham for example.

    I like the spaciousness too and the fact you aren’t ‘forced through’ a mile long forest of retail before hitting your gate. I find security more efficient both time wise from the Q to the actual screening then T1 and the screening itself. There is an airiness and greater feel of space with the high roof and multiple levels. T1 can feel very cramped and clostraphobic during the busier times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭rugbyman


    troyzer wrote: »
    This is it.

    Would you believe it Troyser ,am in T1 now and all gates are indicated for next four hours.!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭troyzer


    rugbyman wrote: »
    Would you believe it Troyser ,am in T1 now and all gates are indicated for next four hours.!

    That is unusual. It depends on the airport of course.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭jjbrien


    I was kinda shocked when T2 was built as for its location so near the 2 runways. Michael O'Leary was right about it. Theres no room to expand unless they decide to knock down the cargo building. The way the gates stick out from the terminal is its main design flaw. It really should have been built where the hangers are and those hangers relocated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    jjbrien wrote: »
    I was kinda shocked when T2 was built as for its location so near the 2 runways. Michael O'Leary was right about it. Theres no room to expand unless they decide to knock down the cargo building. The way the gates stick out from the terminal is its main design flaw. It really should have been built where the hangers are and those hangers relocated.

    MOL was wrong about it, he never said anything about inability to expand in fact he criticised it as being too large calling it a white elephant. Remember the embarrassing funeral protest he had on the opening day?
    Almost from day one most people realised it was actually too small.

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/michael-oleary-dubbed-it-the-taj-mahal-now-terminal-2-could-be-the-most-vital-part-of-dublin-airport-30943909.html

    From a design point of view it's in completely the wrong location.
    It juts out almost to the threshold of the runway so can never be expanded and it's cul de sac design causes problems with access and egress.
    Also road access to the airport for both terminals is through the same gate when it should have been built the other side of the airport with its own access and massive room to expand.
    From a user point of view I quite like T2, it's airy and spacious and easy to pass through once you've negotiated the various level changes.
    T1 needs to be completely demolished though, that building or complex of add on buildings is well past its sell by date and looks really jaded inside and out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,202 ✭✭✭markpb


    it's cul de sac design causes problems with access and egress.

    Can someone explain this to me like I'm an idiot please? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,052 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Shamrockj wrote: »
    As a passenger the pier itself is nice but the stand and taxi way layout is insane and built in an area that doesn't allow any expansion at all. I also don't get departures being 2 floors above check in.

    They could relocate the cargo area and expand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    I wonder how feasible it is in Dublin to just plan to build satellite concourses over time. Think Heathrow T5, Washington Dulles, Denver, a whole load of US airports actually. Seems a very efficient design to look forward to, rather than boxing new terminals into cul de sacs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,200 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Thing that's annoying is no bar or restaurant near the gates.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    markpb wrote: »
    Can someone explain this to me like I'm an idiot please? :)

    when aircraft taxy in to the gates on the Santry side, they are going into a culde sac, which means very limited space to get them in and out, awkward manouvers for the tug drivers and the constant potential to cause delays and pile ups, as there is only one taxiway back out to the runways. If an aircraft is at the innermost gate, right at the Stand we would know as 409, it is effectively trapped and has a very long push to get out so correct sequencing of aircraft is crucial and it takes very little to block the place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭billy few mates


    markpb wrote: »
    Can someone explain this to me like I'm an idiot please? :)

    Only one way in and out, I've missed a tight connection in the past when we pushed off the gate very slightly behind schedule and were made to wait in the cul de sac while several aircraft manoeuvred in and out of the adjacent stands.
    We sat there for twenty minutes before we were able to taxi and then we were stuck in the queue behind all the other aircraft.
    You only have to look at Terminal 2 on Google earth to see how badly positioned it is. The end of the pier is so close to the threshold of the runway you used to have to be cleared by ATC to tow aircraft from one part of the apron to another past it....


  • Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭alancostello


    Nijmegen wrote: »
    I wonder how feasible it is in Dublin to just plan to build satellite concourses over time. Think Heathrow T5, Washington Dulles, Denver, a whole load of US airports actually. Seems a very efficient design to look forward to, rather than boxing new terminals into cul de sacs.

    The 'toast rack' design is likely what'll happen, build out west between the parallel runways, I believe the DUB master plan includes at least one satellite concourse out that way in the near future.

    If you look at Heathrow on Google Maps Satellite you'll see the plan for its future development, T5, T5A, T5B are already there, you can see where T5C will be built, T3 and T4 will be knocked, and T2 will be expanded out the same way T5 has been, the first concourse is already in place. Eventually you'll have the full toaster rack across, it's a very efficient use of space.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭adam88


    I often land with Ryanair in T1 and have to leg it over to t2 and go through security again for a ei flight. I just can’t understand why I can’t stay airside.

    Now that I think of it can you go through T1 security for a T2 flight and vice Versa


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,506 ✭✭✭worded


    Original ad for T2
    https://youtu.be/wdjLBXlieI0

    Great skit on it by The Eleventh Hour - Comic Genius I think ....
    https://youtu.be/8JPT3feipJ8


  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Kev11491


    adam88 wrote: »
    I often land with Ryanair in T1 and have to leg it over to t2 and go through security again for a ei flight. I just can’t understand why I can’t stay airside.

    Now that I think of it can you go through T1 security for a T2 flight and vice Versa

    Yes, you can go through T1 security for T2 departures. Vice versa. Not in Schengen so that's one of the reasons you can't stay airside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,109 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Well you could use flight connections but DAA won't allow Ryanair passengers to use it as Ryanair won't pay (and the DAA strictly speaking don't allow self connection)

    Best option is to go back through T1 security and check the screens, a lot of EI flights go off the 300 gates and the new 335 bus gates so its shorter from T1, going via T1 will never result in a longer walk


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,002 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The 'toast rack' design is likely what'll happen, build out west between the parallel runways, I believe the DUB master plan includes at least one satellite concourse out that way in the near future.

    If you look at Heathrow on Google Maps Satellite you'll see the plan for its future development, T5, T5A, T5B are already there, you can see where T5C will be built, T3 and T4 will be knocked, and T2 will be expanded out the same way T5 has been, the first concourse is already in place. Eventually you'll have the full toaster rack across, it's a very efficient use of space.
    It's almost become a standard, hasn't it? MUC and the not yet open BER are designed like that also, expanding is almost trivial. I believe Ulick McEvaddy proposed (obviously to his benefit as he owned or owns land around there but whatever) a mid-field airport at the time T2 was under consideration. They really should have gone that way and planned to eventually knock T1, rather than squeezing more stuff over on the eastern perimeter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Well you could use flight connections but DAA won't allow Ryanair passengers to use it as Ryanair won't pay (and the DAA strictly speaking don't allow self connection)

    Best option is to go back through T1 security and check the screens, a lot of EI flights go off the 300 gates and the new 335 bus gates so its shorter from T1, going via T1 will never result in a longer walk


    Been a while but If you go up the stairs at the opposite end of the t1 baggage hall from where the 100 gates come in does that not get you back up to the departures level the stairs beside the old EI first class baggage belt.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    trellheim wrote: »
    Been a while but If you go up the stairs at the opposite end of the t1 baggage hall from where the 100 gates come in does that not get you back up to the departures level the stairs beside the old EI first class baggage belt.

    Almost certain this has been closed off since the inbound and outbound separation was put in place for the 200 gates.


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