Eir urban FTTH

ClosedAccountFuzzy

There’s a fairly huge rollout going on in Cork City that seems to be covering at the very least Wellington Road, Quaker Road, Dennehy’s Cross and Cork Central (GPO) exchanges which cover a huge area of the city and western / northern suburbs.

I’m not sure what’s happening with Chuchfield, Mahon or or Hettyfield.

There’s some activity on going in Douglas since the very start of FTTH several years ago too.

Cork981

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

There’s a fairly huge rollout going on in Cork City that seems to be covering at the very least Wellington Road, Quaker Road, Dennehy’s Cross and Cork Central (GPO) exchanges which cover a huge area of the city and western / northern suburbs.

I’m not sure what’s happening with Chuchfield, Mahon or or Hettyfield.

There’s some activity on going in Douglas since the very start of FTTH several years ago too.

Huge progress around Churchfield already, many house around Farranree and Cathedral road already gone live and more going live on June 6th.

Already live in Mahon on the Blackrock road and Boreenmanna road.

The guys installing the ducting are well ahead of the blowing and splicing guys from the looks of it.

Many properties can now get 1GB connections from three sources around Cork City which is fairly incredible. (Siro, Openeir and Virgin Media).

Along with this Three 5G is easily pushing 700mb+ around many parts of the City and surrounding areas.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

I’m quite close to the city centre in the land that Virgin’s predecessors forgot. So it’ll be OpenEir or bust! There are little metal “stickers” with Siro on them hammered into the electricity poles but I’ve seen zero evidence of any more than a preliminary survey.

OpenEir seems to be well on its way though.

It’s good to see though. For many years Ireland was really a laggard on broadband. The tide seems to have really turned in the last few years.

Cork981

The OpenEir rollout appears to be moving much faster than Siro did which wasn’t slow by any means.
I guess more caution and safety procedures are required around high power lines and scheduled power outages in a few areas as poles were replaced.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Eir’s duct network is also likely easier to work with. There was a lot of urban ducting redone in the 1980 and 90s with some notion of FTTx or perhaps coax being an eventual possibility.

It’s purpose built to carry communication cables, and has no high voltage hazards, so it’s probably fairly straight forward.

Also they’ve the right topology. The urban exchange buildings originally contained electromechanical crossbar or stepping exchanges that occupied buildings at least the size or a primary school. That was replaced with digital technology that ultimately ended up occupying maybe 10% of the space. So they’ve loads of capacity to house optical distribution frames, routers and data centres and the whole local duct network ends up in their basements and they all sit on multiple big fibre back haul links and would have ducts linking them to their neighbours and big national nodes. So it’s ideal for a modern fibre network too.

So it’s way easier for Eir to roll out in urban spaces than ESB.

AngryLips

Do eir have a rollout map the way SIRO have a rollout map? I see they have one that includes FTTC on fibrerollout.ie but am I correct in thinking there's nothing showing FTTH?

kaizersoze

AngryLips wrote: »

Do eir have a rollout map the way SIRO have a rollout map? I see they have one that includes FTTC on fibrerollout.ie but am I correct in thinking there's nothing showing FTTH?

No, nothing. Just a list of towns published initially but no map or timeline.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

As much as Eir tends to get a bad rap, mostly and deservedly for the way its customer service in the retail side was for the last few years, I’ve found OpenEir genuinely very well put together.

They have a level of transparency on the rollout of fibre that I haven’t seen anywhere else in Europe and it seems to have been driven by Carolan Lennon’s time at the helm of Open Eir (Eircom Wholeale).

They seem to be going through a genuine improvement since she took over the hot seat and for once, they’ve a CEO that seems to have a genuine interest in and knowledge of telecommunications and tech and they now owned by a telco - Iliad (Free)

The company was really trashed during the days it was run by hedge funds that didn’t really give a damn whether it was a telco, a hotel chain or a bunch of shopping centres. It was just speculative investment and it had a long legacy of being mired in bureaucracy before that as a former branch of the civil service.

I think Telecom Éireann is over idealised by some. I don’t remember it as being anything but extremely expensive, and often a lagging behind on tech, going on endlessly about the time it bought digital exchanges in the 80s that briefly catapulted it ahead, then it sat on its comfortable monopoly for years and couldn’t even get ISDN launched early, despite having the tech before many places. I just remember painfully expensive calls and internet until the market opened fully.

I’m seeing genuine improvements and it’s reminding her of the time when the mess that was NTL and particular Chorus became UPC and sudden flu evolved into a competent telco.

pg17

eir Urban FTTH router

Can somebody tell me which router eir supplies for FTTH Urban


TIA

kaizersoze

pg17 wrote: »

eir Urban FTTH router

Can somebody tell me which router eir supplies for FTTH Urban


TIA

I'd imagine it's the Sagencom (F3000) that they supply for everything else?

https://www.eir.ie/opencms/export/sites/support/.galleries/pdfs/support-pdfs/user_manual_f3000.pdf

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Unless and until they get rid of the ONT, they're just a router. It's the same one used for FTTH and FTTC.

pg17

kaizersoze wrote: »

I'd imagine it's the Sagencom (F3000) that they supply for everything else?

https://www.eir.ie/opencms/export/sites/support/.galleries/pdfs/support-pdfs/user_manual_f3000.pdf

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

Unless and until they get rid of the ONT, they're just a router. It's the same one used for FTTH and FTTC.

Thank you - I'm still using Huawei F2000 for eir FTTC and wanted to know if there is a later router for eir FTTH. An F3000 would be new for me.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

With the current setup for FTTH they provide a standard ONT (Optical Network Terminal) which takes the fibre connection in on one side and has an ethernet interface on the other. The ISP's router (in this case Eir retail) plugs into the ethernet port on the ONT.

If you're using Vodafone, Sky, Digiweb etc, you'll just have their router plugged into that port.

OpenEir's now proposing getting rid of the ONT (at least as an option). So the ISP you go with would provide a device that contains an optical port, and would just plug directly into the fibre connection.

The ONT is provided by OpenEir i.e. it's part of the fixed network rather than your ISP.

NBAiii

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

I know the pandemic may have disrupted things, but I'm just wondering what is the usual timeline between a microduct appearing and a live service?

They ran all the micro ducts underground and up the sides of poles in my area, and there's one sitting right at the end of my garden on the pole my phone line runs to.

It's been unchanged for about 6 months at this stage, with no more activity.

I'm close to Cork city centre and on a one of the bigger exchanges in the city, that has about 15,000 lines, so it's a fairly big rollout.

Also, something that might be of interest to this thread:

OpenEir has applied to ComReg to allow for a change to the customer equipment used for IFN (i.e. urban rollout) which would allow a combined router/ONT to be installed by the ISP. So it might mean an optical port on the router and a neater installation with fewer devices. The router would just plug straight into the fibre.

Seems to apply to the XGS-PON networks i.e. newer urban rollout.

I assume, from their point of view, it means being responsible for less active equipment.

https://www.comreg.ie/publication-download/approval-relating-to-the-eircom-development-the-ntu-connection-product

This new connection model seems to be timed to coincide with the proposed introduction of a new 2Gb/s profile with 200Mb/s upload that will only be available on IFN. Late September 2021 seems to be the target date.

I'm now sure how other OLOs will react to this but if I had to guess they will not be happy.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

In some ways it should be easier for them as if there's something goes wrong with a router, you just replace the router.

In the current setup you might have to figure out if it's the ONT or the router and who's responsible for what etc.

Those combined devices are pretty commonly used on the continent and the likes of AVM / FritzBox makes one that's 100% workable with this.

https://en.avm.de/products/fritzbox/fritzbox-5530-fiber/

https://en.avm.de/press/press-releases/2021/01/ready-for-fast-fiber-optic-connections-fritzbox-5530-fiber-receives-additional-certification-from-broadband-forum/

oscarBravo

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

In some ways it should be easier for them as if there's something goes wrong with a router, you just replace the router.

In the current setup you might have to figure out if it's the ONT or the router and who's responsible for what etc.

There's no ambiguity - the ONT is open eir's and the router is the ISP's. The ONT is the demarc. If the ONT isn't reachable, it's open eir's problem (unless it's powered off, but it's possible to tell that). If the ONT is reachable but the router isn't, it's the ISP's problem.

With the new setup, the demarc becomes the NTU. The problem is that there's no way to test to the NTU - it's literally just a passive fibre connector. I can foresee problems arising as a result.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

“ a) The NTU Connection Model is not a replacement of the ONT Connection Model and operators may continue to purchase FTTH connections from Eircom based on the current ONT Connection Model.”

user1842

oscarBravo wrote: »

There's no ambiguity - the ONT is open eir's and the router is the ISP's. The ONT is the demarc. If the ONT isn't reachable, it's open eir's problem (unless it's powered off, but it's possible to tell that). If the ONT is reachable but the router isn't, it's the ISP's problem.

With the new setup, the demarc becomes the NTU. The problem is that there's no way to test to the NTU - it's literally just a passive fibre connector. I can foresee problems arising as a result.

Also would there be limitations on where you can place the combined unit, are the installers going to leave you with 10 meters of fibre cable so you can install the unit in a proper location?

This seems like just a cost saving measure for Open Eir (although one could argue it saves electricity).

I think the current system is good, ethernet cable is cheap and easy to obtain and it also allows the user to use whatever router where-ever they want. If this goes ahead then I can see ISPs limiting access to their combined units (disabling modem mode, i.e. look at the mess in Virgin Media broadband).

BArra

Little Island/Glounthaune Cork

15/7/2020 - KN/Circet team installing underground fibre ducting, with some poles having a black ducting cable spooled off quarter way up the pole
29/7/2020 - Eir crew out replacing telephone poles
26/8/2020 - Several KN/Circet crews with a mini-digger fixing collapsed ducts
8/12/2020 - KN Circet crew fiddling at a few poles
4/2/2021 - Eir crew started to blow fibre into existing ducting
11/2/2021 - Distribution Points on poles being installed
2/3/2021 - Eir crew blowing fibre still
7/5/21 - Looks like all DPs installed since yesterday, eir techs told me they expect it to be ready by end of May, he said they work out from the exchange so once they finish the build out its ready for order.

23/6/21 - RFO date released

So just under a year from start to go live for my area, fingers crossed the install goes to plan and hopefully no issues as it will be an overhead install rather than duct

wheresthebeef

user1842 wrote: »

Also would there be limitations on where you can place the combined unit, are the installers going to leave you with 10 meters of fibre cable so you can install the unit in a proper location?

This seems like just a cost saving measure for Open Eir (although one could argue it saves electricity).

I think the current system is good, ethernet cable is cheap and easy to obtain and it also allows the user to use whatever router where-ever they want. If this goes ahead then I can see ISPs limiting access to their combined units (disabling modem mode, i.e. look at the mess in Virgin Media broadband).

Agreed. One benefit for me of getting FTTH is the ability to choose my own router. My house is cabled to each room from a central point. The Eir NTU is just inside the front door and has an adjacent Cat6 that leads to the central point where I have my cabinet with my switch, router and other network devices. Cat6 is much easier for a homeowner to deal with. Everything in one spot is not good for WiFi as usually it’s in the worst place you’d ever choose for an access point.

KOR101

FTTH Roll-Out to Intensify Competition: eir plans to roll out their fibre network to an extra 1.4 million households that would cover 75% of total homes by 2024. In August 2020, VM announced that its network of close to a million homes passed were now capable of gigabit speeds, providing it with the largest footprint for such speeds in Ireland. We view eir's fibre footprint rollout plans of around 280,000 homes per year will be the largest in the market, which means that eir will overtake VM with the largest footprint of high-speed internet connections in Ireland over the next four years. With the increasing overlap of eir's fibre coverage and cable homes passed, competition for high-speed broadband customers is likely to intensify.

https://www.fitchratings.com/research/corporate-finance/fitch-revises-eircom-outlook-to-positive-affirms-idr-at-b-09-06-2021

AngryLips

KOR101 wrote: »

FTTH Roll-Out to Intensify Competition: eir plans to roll out their fibre network to an extra 1.4 million households that would cover 75% of total homes by 2024. In August 2020, VM announced that its network of close to a million homes passed were now capable of gigabit speeds, providing it with the largest footprint for such speeds in Ireland. We view eir's fibre footprint rollout plans of around 280,000 homes per year will be the largest in the market, which means that eir will overtake VM with the largest footprint of high-speed internet connections in Ireland over the next four years. With the increasing overlap of eir's fibre coverage and cable homes passed, competition for high-speed broadband customers is likely to intensify.

https://www.fitchratings.com/research/corporate-finance/fitch-revises-eircom-outlook-to-positive-affirms-idr-at-b-09-06-2021

It's hard to believe that Eir, with it's nationwide coverage, is still behind Virgin ...with it's much more limited, urban-only footprint

ClosedAccountFuzzy

AngryLips wrote: »

It's hard to believe that Eir, with it's nationwide coverage, is still behind Virgin ...with it's much more limited, urban-only footprint

The cities and bigger towns that Virgin cover contain a huge % of the population and they had seriously high speed broadband more than a decade before Eir. I remember UPC had serious speeds in Dublin and Cork in the days Eircom was struggling with bad ADSL2 and giving nonsense responses about ports on exchanges being full.

Eir's a different company now, but their predecessors effectively abandoned urban Ireland.

ED E

AngryLips wrote: »

It's hard to believe that Eir, with it's nationwide coverage, is still behind Virgin ...with it's much more limited, urban-only footprint

Premises passed is kinda a bull**** figure.

In Q1 2021, Eir had 29.1% of
total retail fixed broadband
subscriptions, followed by Virgin
Media who had 25.3% of
subscriptions. Vodafone had 19.6%
(excluding mobile broadband
subscriptions), Sky Ireland 13.8%
and Imagine and Pure Telecom had
2.7% and 2.2% market share
respectively.
• All other OAOs combined
accounted for the remaining 7.4%
share of retail fixed broadband
subscriptions.


In Q1 2021, Vodafone had
39.2% of retail FTTP subscriptions,
followed by Eir at 33.3%, Sky Ireland at
13.4%, Virgin Media at 4.5%, Digiweb at
2.1% and Pure Telecom at 3.3% market
share.

Sorry about the screwy formatting. Virgin have lots of DOCSIS3.1 capable passed homes but really their FTTP is tiny. OE/SIRO can go to 10G overnight, VM have to rip out their copper and start over.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Also remember that OpenEir's making a % on all FTTC and a significant chunk of FTTP connections. It's not just retail.

Virgin Media are operating a hybrid fibre-coax network. The fibre comes fairly close to end users and it doesn't take them all that much effort to keep pushing it out.

DOCSIS is very capable of competing with FTTP on that kind of network. There's a lot of fibre in it. It's not remotely as hobbled as a twisted pair network using VDSL.

If they do go to full FTTP, it's actually often coax into the house with fibre to a box on the wall outside.

There is no comparison between HFC cable and VDSL/FTTC though. It's vastly superior.

kaizersoze

Maybe connected...maybe not...lots of footpaths being replaced/renewed around Ballinasloe along with the complete town enhancement project. I noticed these access type fittings have been installed at regular intervals around the town center paths and on stretches outside the town.
I'm assuming there is some kind of duct underneath.
Are they a sign of things to come??

ClosedAccountFuzzy

they seem to use that for fibre alright.

Gonzo

I'm sure I read somewhere that Eir are planning to launch a 2000/200 profile over their Urban IFN Network sometime in the autumn. This obviously won't be available on the Eir Rural FTTH Network as that only supports up to 1000. It will probably be years before Eir even consider upgrading the rural fibre network to support speeds beyond 1000.

user1842

Gonzo wrote: »

I'm sure I read somewhere that Eir are planning to launch a 2000/200 profile over their Urban IFN Network sometime in the autumn. This obviously won't be available on the Eir Rural FTTH Network as that only supports up to 1000. It will probably be years before Eir even consider upgrading the rural fibre network to support speeds beyond 1000.

I think providers should focus more on increasing upload speeds.

Is there any technical limitation on having sysmetric speeds on fibre lines?

EarWig

Gonzo wrote: »

I'm sure I read somewhere that Eir are planning to launch a 2000/200 profile over their Urban IFN Network sometime in the autumn. This obviously won't be available on the Eir Rural FTTH Network as that only supports up to 1000. It will probably be years before Eir even consider upgrading the rural fibre network to support speeds beyond 1000.

That would make a lot of sense.

Keep making VM look like sh*te.