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Cork Metropolitan Area Transport Strategy

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  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Limerick74


    Is that open to the public?

    Yes but it costs €50 for non members


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Curb Your Enthusiasm


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    Is that open to the public?

    Yes but it costs €50 for non members
    Steep enough! Would be nice to have a regular commuter there to represent the public.


  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭Heartbreak Hank




  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭Lennoxschips


    I saw a photo of a cycle lane with a double decker bus driving on it.

    genius


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I saw a photo of a cycle lane with a double decker bus driving on it.

    genius

    Summer Hill North shared bus/cycle lane?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,767 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    That looks like a cyclist in a bus lane, not a bus in a cycle lane.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    That looks like a cyclist in a bus lane, not a bus in a cycle lane.

    Edit: my bad, it's Summer Hill NORTH not south - CCC-U19, I wronged the lads on CMATS: that's currently all parking, The Cork Cycle Network Plan 2017 proposes a cycleway. The shared bus lane seems reasonable.

    Road Name:
    Summerhill
    Section (where applicable): MacCurtain Street to Middle Glanmire Road
    Existing Facility and Quality of Service:
    There are currently no dedicated cycling facilities on this route.
    Proposed Infrastructure Type: This is proposed as a primary route with on-road cycle lanes that will require management of on-street car parking to provide necessary width for cycle lanes and potentially will require a portion of the existing footpath at particularly constrained locations. An uphill cycle lane should be prioritised where road space is limited.
    Key Locations Served: Surrounding residential area, link to the City Centre, St, Luke’s School (via Victoria Terrace).
    Pinch Points/Constraints: Traffic and car parking management will be required in order to provide adequate road width for dedicated cycle lanes. A mixed street, traffic calmed environment with
    junction treatments to alert motorists to cyclists may be implemented if the necessary road width cannot be provided at some points along this route.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Overall document here:

    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Cork_Met_Area_Transport_Stategy__May19_SCREEN.pdf

    They're calling it a draft and I believe they're going to look for public consultation on it:
    The National Transport Authority, the “Authority”, invites written submissions or observations on the Cork Metropolitan Area Draft Transport Strategy 2040 (the “Draft Strategy”).
    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/consultations/consultation-on-cork-metropolitan-area-draft-transport-strategy-2040/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭ForiegnNational


    My biggest problem with the CMATS document, is in the poor coverage of the infrastructure that commuters use getting into the city, or associated business parks from the surrounding towns in the region.

    If you look at at AADT of the roads leading to Cork City, roads such as the N22, N25, N20, N28 and N71 are significantly over capacity, but the plan primarily addressed the inner-city infrastructure, with the exception of the additional stations and commuter rail concept on the existing rail infrastructure to Mallow, Middleton and Cobh.

    There are some Park and Ride solutions at Ballincollig, Blarney and Dunkettle, however for the majority of commuters, these won't entice them to swap car for public transport.

    Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see the plan and services such as Commuter Rail (which should be build immediately as far as I am concerned) and the Bus Connect corridors, but i believe they missed out in addressing this key area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,297 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    My biggest problem with the CMATS document, is in the poor coverage of the infrastructure that commuters use getting into the city, or associated business parks from the surrounding towns in the region.

    If you look at at AADT of the roads leading to Cork City, roads such as the N22, N25, N20, N28 and N71 are significantly over capacity, but the plan primarily addressed the inner-city infrastructure, with the exception of the additional stations and commuter rail concept on the existing rail infrastructure to Mallow, Middleton and Cobh.

    There are some Park and Ride solutions at Ballincollig, Blarney and Dunkettle, however for the majority of commuters, these won't entice them to swap car for public transport.

    Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see the plan and services such as Commuter Rail (which should be build immediately as far as I am concerned) and the Bus Connect corridors, but i believe they missed out in addressing this key area.
    The infrastructure element pretty much covers the urban area with bus corridors, where all the significant delay is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,297 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    My biggest issue is that the plan lacks ambition and won't be timely. The infrastructure being a decade away and the goals for sustainable mode share are lower than Dublin's current set up. The projections are probably conservative though. Well have to wait to see the detailed design of the bus corridors.

    The City Council's Helen Keller-esque roads department produced some horrendous crap for the Wilton road corridor which the NTA will now redesign. Another argument against local government i suppose


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    My biggest problem with the CMATS document, is in the poor coverage of the infrastructure that commuters use getting into the city, or associated business parks from the surrounding towns in the region.

    If you look at at AADT of the roads leading to Cork City, roads such as the N22, N25, N20, N28 and N71 are significantly over capacity, but the plan primarily addressed the inner-city infrastructure, with the exception of the additional stations and commuter rail concept on the existing rail infrastructure to Mallow, Middleton and Cobh.

    There are some Park and Ride solutions at Ballincollig, Blarney and Dunkettle, however for the majority of commuters, these won't entice them to swap car for public transport.

    Don't get me wrong, I am glad to see the plan and services such as Commuter Rail (which should be build immediately as far as I am concerned) and the Bus Connect corridors, but i believe they missed out in addressing this key area.

    I suspect that their brief was deliberately curtailed: "keep it to the metropolitan area, don't focus on the towns further out".


    cgcsb wrote: »
    My biggest issue is that the plan lacks ambition and won't be timely. The infrastructure being a decade away and the goals for sustainable mode share are lower than Dublin's current set up. The projections are probably conservative though. Well have to wait to see the detailed design of the bus corridors.

    The City Council's Helen Keller-esque roads department produced some horrendous crap for the Wilton road corridor which the NTA will now redesign. Another argument against local government i suppose

    There is some extremely low-hanging-fruit on the sustainable transport corridors into the city from the suburbs, and between the suburbs and the industrial estates. But they can't see what they don't want to see I suppose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Dats me


    The public consultation closes tomorrow. It has only a 4% target share for cycling and retains a lot of car dependency, I would recommend a submission.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,297 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The plan actually envisions an INCREASE in the total number of car trips and spending most of the money on roads. It's a remarkably unambitious plan in scope.

    In terms of individual projects it seems to be budgets defining the time line. The major capital intensive projects in Dublin are due to be finished in 2027 (read 2030 if you're being optimistic) Metrolink, BusConnects and DART expansion will cost the exchequer €8bn, so running capital intensive projects at the same time in Cork is a non runner. The M20 will probably also be built in this decade.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Dats me wrote: »
    The public consultation closes tomorrow. It has only a 4% target share for cycling and retains a lot of car dependency, I would recommend a submission.

    Except that 4.5% based on the premise that they started at a 2011 base cycling rate of 3.3%. But they already stated that figure was 1.1% everywhere else.
    See page 58 here:
    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Transport_Modelling_Assessment_Report.pdf


    It gets worse though, because they say if they don't do any CMATS at all, cycling will only grow to 4% by 2040. And if they do CMATS in full (spending €230m) then cycling will grow to 4.5%.

    And you think all the above is confusing, well that's perhaps because the cycling estimates are based on literally zero real data whatsoever. And the average cycling speed has been taken to be 12kmh on every route (hilly or flat).

    Oh and that €230m? That's based on how much it cost to do similar projects in Dublin, by the way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,297 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    It's poorly thought out alright, certainly the projections are half arsed. I think if proper bus corridors and cycle routes are put in as per Dublin's BusConnects you can expect the mode share to improve by a lot more than is being predicted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Limerick74


    Any news on publication date for the final CMATS?


  • Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Dats me


    Limerick74 wrote: »
    Any news on publication date for the final CMATS?


    Might be worth a Freedom of Information request at this stage


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,297 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    As if it matters? The plan is to literally do nothing until 2030, which is politics speak for such a length of time that we'll all be dead anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Limerick74


    According to the Irish Examiner CMATS to be launched tomorrow

    From tomorrow's @irishexaminer https://twitter.com/limerickcitybiz/status/1235700295105011713/photo/1


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,297 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Is it not already launched? Is this not a 'relaunched'.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Is it not already launched? Is this not a 'relaunched'.

    That was the draft put out for pubic consultation, this is the final one.

    Doesn’t seem to be much changed going by the media reports. And the laughable timelines are presumably still there


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Limerick74




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,089 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I haven't got into the detail yet, but the headline figures are fairly disappointing. Still 49% driving and 4% cycling in 2040.
    The "do min" scenario is almost as attractive as CMATS!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Curb Your Enthusiasm


    It's rubbish and completely unambitious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭Heartbreak Hank


    Not sure why it is in the news today but a couple articles about CMATS yesterday/today



    Echo Live


    Examiner


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,124 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Not sure why it is in the news today but a couple articles about CMATS yesterday/today



    Echo Live


    Examiner

    The NTA made a presentation on it to the Cork City Council on Monday evening so that's why it's in the news.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,297 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Is there any new information? has an explanation been offered as to why the plan is a)car centric and b)so far into the future given we currently have a pandemic, climate crisis and housing crisis?


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