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What happens if I drive with an expired driving licence ?

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Comments

  • #32
    ArrBee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 845 ✭✭✭ArrBee


    superg wrote: »
    They would have had to re sit the driving test in that case.

    Yes, he did!
    It was quite the mix up. Something about it being issued with a very short expiry in the 1st instance then it getting lost and him not bothering to replace it, then the changes in rules coming in for NCT and for the 1st time he was asked to produce the license which he didn't have. When he tried to get it replaced he was told it was expired.... by "just over" the threshold.

    Makes for a funny story and a warning to others I reckon.


  • #33
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,414 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Renewed my insurance recently. They wouldn't accept until I sent in a copy of my licence.

    I had to pay extra to take the OH off the policy because she misplaced hers


  • #34
    Under His Eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    Lauren Full Recorder wrote: »
    They’ll only pay out for third parties I believe but have a right of recovery
    Wrong. The conditions of insurance have not been violated.


  • #35
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Under His Eye wrote: »
    Wrong. The conditions of insurance have not been violated.

    So if someone has no licence just drive on the insurance is grand?


  • #36
    Under His Eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    If they had a licence and are not disqualified then yes that is grand. Says so on every insurance certificate.


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  • #37
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,771 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Under His Eye wrote: »
    If they had a licence and are not disqualified then yes that is grand. Says so on every insurance certificate.

    Liberty still insists that the driver holds a 'valid' licence and there is no qualifier along the lines of 'or, having held a licence, is not disqualified...' which you will find in most policy documents.

    Under the heading of 'General exceptions which apply to the whole policy', Liberty state the following.....


    3. We will not cover the driver unless;

    a they hold a valid licence to drive the vehicle; and
    b they meet the conditions and any limits of the driving licence.


    https://www.libertyinsurance.ie/assets/Uploads/Private-Vehicle-Policy-Booklet.pdf

    Though the consensus in multiple discussions on boards is that they would not be able to refuse to pay out based on the driver's licence having simply expired.

    Some insurance companies used to insist that the car was taxed as a condition of the policy!


  • #38
    jmreire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,995 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Every year when I'm renewing the car insurance, I have to show my driving licence too. Even for a friends car that I'm on the insurance, I have to show the Licence at renewal time. Haven't been asked by a Guard in donkeys years..


  • #39
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    coylemj wrote: »
    Liberty still insists that the driver holds a 'valid' licence and there is no qualifier along the lines of 'or, having held a licence, is not disqualified...' which you will find in most policy documents.

    Under the heading of 'General exceptions which apply to the whole policy', Liberty state the following.....


    3. We will not cover the driver unless;

    a they hold a valid licence to drive the vehicle; and
    b they meet the conditions and any limits of the driving licence.


    https://www.libertyinsurance.ie/assets/Uploads/Private-Vehicle-Policy-Booklet.pdf

    Though the consensus in multiple discussions on boards is that they would not be able to refuse to pay out based on the driver's licence having simply expired.

    Some insurance companies used to insist that the car was taxed as a condition of the policy!

    It's interesting to note the wording, "we will not cover the driver", this may not create a right of recovery in itself against the policy holder as you still hold a valid policy open to claims made by a third party. It is also interesting to note that most exclusions apply to the "insured person", this clause specifically applies to the "driver" and the policy is held by the policy holder, not the driver nor the insured person.

    As such I think such a policy clause only applies to a claim made by the driver in that capacity as opposed to the insured or a third party, contra proferentem may apply here also? So whilst the driver may not be covered themselves the policyholder still holds a valid policy.


  • #40
    Under His Eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    It would be interesting to see if the Gardaí would even attempt a prosecution based on some obscure policy wording.


  • #41
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,771 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    Under His Eye wrote: »
    It would be interesting to see if the Gardaí would even attempt a prosecution based on some obscure policy wording.

    Unless you're seriously pushing the boat out like running an illegal taxi service, the Gardai take the view that as long as you are not disqualified and can produce an insurance cert., you are insured to drive.


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  • #42
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Under His Eye wrote: »
    It would be interesting to see if the Gardaí would even attempt a prosecution based on some obscure policy wording.

    There are good reasons why not. Once a policy is issued on a vehicle any injured party is indemnified under the policy. That is the basic purpose of compulsory insurance. If the policyholder has breached a condition of the policy the insurer must pay the injured party but can sue their own policyholder. Under the EU insurance directives, cover can't be avoided because of the driver lacking a licence.


  • #43
    jmreire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,995 ✭✭✭jmreire


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Renewed my insurance recently. They wouldn't accept until I sent in a copy of my licence.

    I had to pay extra to take the OH off the policy because she misplaced hers

    I'm pretty sure that there is a procedure for replacing lost licences? And also for replacing out-of-date licences? Just depends on how long out of date they are.


  • #44
    Little Less Conversation
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 189 ✭✭Little Less Conversation


    My renewal was up last year. I have never been stopped but I didn't want it expiring. Thought with an expired license you would have to go through the learning process again. Sure in hell, I won't be doing that.

    Actually, what actually happens if you did let it expire.


  • #45
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Little Less Conversation wrote: »
    My renewal was up last year. I have never been stopped but I didn't want it expiring. Thought with an expired license you would have to go through the learning process again. Sure in hell, I won't be doing that.

    Actually, what actually happens if you did let it expire.

    If a full licence is out of date 10 years then you start from the beginning, theory test, mandatory lessons etc, for a learner permit it’s 5 years.


  • #46
    Little Less Conversation
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 189 ✭✭Little Less Conversation


    Little Less Conversation wrote: »
    My renewal was up last year. I have never been stopped but I didn't want it expiring. Thought with an expired license you would have to go through the learning process again. Sure in hell, I won't be doing that.

    Actually, what actually happens if you did let it expire.

    Just a quick Google and after 10 years without a renewal and you do have to go through the whole learning process again. I did that once. Won't be doing it again. It's way cheaper just to renew the license instead of the driver theory, 12 lessons and 6 month wait before applying for the test.


  • #47
    UrbanFret
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,051 ✭✭✭UrbanFret


    If you live close to the border then you'll be asked for it regular on both sides. Anyway in this day and age you would think you could have a digital copy on your phone,


  • #48
    GM228
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭GM228


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    There are good reasons why not. Once a policy is issued on a vehicle any injured party is indemnified under the policy. That is the basic purpose of compulsory insurance. If the policyholder has breached a condition of the policy the insurer must pay the injured party but can sue their own policyholder. Under the EU insurance directives, cover can't be avoided because of the driver lacking a licence.

    Claims by a third party can't be avoided, but "cover" for the policy holder can be if they so wish to have such a policy.


  • #49
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    UrbanFret wrote: »
    If you live close to the border then you'll be asked for it regular on both sides. Anyway in this day and age you would think you could have a digital copy on your phone,

    Could a digital copy not be easier to alter? Is that not why these microchips are in the new credit card style licence/permit?


  • #50
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    GM228 wrote: »
    Claims by a third party can't be avoided, but "cover" for the policy holder can be if they so wish to have such a policy.

    This is it exactly.
    You are still covered 3rd party once you took out the policy legally.(ie. had a licence at that time)

    This 3rd party cover is still in place even if you are pissed drunk, out of your mind on drugs, have an expired licence or are driving like a complete maniac.
    ayux4rj6zql2ph wrote: »
    Could a digital copy not be easier to alter? Is that not why these microchips are in the new credit card style licence/permit?

    This is fraud and you can not take out a policy legally using fraud. Not having a licence would be the least of your troubles if you were caught doing this.


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