Are Rottweilers dangerous?

VonVix

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Greatest myth of all time. Some dogs are inherently dangerous breeds. Yes, they can be controlled via proper training and supervision but nothing that you, me or anyone else can do will take away their instinct. We can minimise the risk but never ever eliminate it.

IMO, Labradors are one of the most dangerous as they almost always appear quite placid and have a 'good' name yet they're one of the most prolific biters of all dogs.

Can you explain a little about this "instinct" you speak of that can make dogs dangerous? Instinct to do what, exactly?

ED E

A pug can be a nasty piece of work.

An Akita can be a nasty piece of work.


The difference is the damage they do. Id much rather meet a drunk driver in a punto vs a 40ft, same goes for dogs. Try getting a bully to release a bite.

Ave Sodalis

To be fair, there are certain breeds that are not particularly suited to being pets because the vast majority of people would not have the level of handling skills to be able to keep them. I would not recommend a Mal, or an Anatolian to your average pet owner. I would be cautious recommending a working dog breed to most people.



Rotties are big, strong dogs OP, that have high energy requirements. The only vicious ones I've heard of usually have a reason (either trained to be that way for ego, not trained at all, or abuse). They need good training from an early age because they are large, and they are strong, but they do generally enjoy training, or having a "job". They are prone, as most dogs are, to destructiveness if they aren't properly trained and don't have their energy requirements fulfilled.



If you gave me a choice between being locked into a room with the average Rottie, and locked into a room with the average Chihuahua, Pom, or JRT... it would be the former I would pick every time. I wouldn't leave my fantastically tempered 12 year old lab who has never even attempted to hurt anyone in his life alone with a child.

bilbot79

Thanks for the replies. In theory it all sounds ok but I still don't feel comfortable. Maybe I will when I get to know the dog.

muddypaws

bilbot79 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. In theory it all sounds ok but I still don't feel comfortable. Maybe I will when I get to know the dog.

Turn the question around. Why don't you feel comfortable? Would you feel better if it was a Labrador or a golden retriever?

shakencat

I must be a terrible parent.

I own a lab and a rottweiler.

And we have an 8month old baby.


I have zero bad words to say about either dog, would never leave her alone with them (or any dog) but she toddles along crawling and they don't bat an eye.



They are both well trained, fed and walked every day.

Myself and my other half have often said we'll gladly continue getting Rottweilers - our lads temperament is amazing.. Just a pity about their bad name.


Alot of people stop us on walks and say 'he is handsome, what is he?' While hand is out petting him.

We say rottweiler, some jump in fright when they hear the breed, plenty wouldn't know a rottweiler from a black lab.

bilbot79

muddypaws wrote: »

Turn the question around. Why don't you feel comfortable? Would you feel better if it was a Labrador or a golden retriever?

Yes. Completely comfortable, they are never in the news and it isn't illegal to take them outside unmuzzled.

muddypaws

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Mike3549 wrote: »

Based on that link, it looks like they are banned for dcc tennants only

that is correct, but do you think theres a reason they picked specific breeds ?

Because they are the dogs on the Restricted breed list. The chihuahua was originally going on that list because it sounded like a dangerous dog - that's the level of knowledge that went into the list. How come German shepherds are on the list, but not Belgian or Dutch? What makes the GSDs more dangerous than a Malinois?

borderlinemeath

bilbot79 wrote: »

Yes. Completely comfortable, they are never in the news and it isn't illegal to take them outside unmuzzled.

A Jack Russell killed a 4 day old baby in the UK a few years ago. Complacency around size, ability and the fact that certain breeds is on an arbitrary list is what is dangerous.

shamrock55

borderlinemeath wrote: »

I've never had a negative experience with any rotties. Any of them I've handled have literally been cuddle monsters. They are strong powerful dogs though.



Breeds I have had negative experiences with:


Collie
Bichon
JRT
Golden cocker spaniel

Do you mind if I ask what bad experience did you have with the cocker

twowheelsonly

VonVix wrote: »

Can you explain a little about this "instinct" you speak of that can make dogs dangerous? Instinct to do what, exactly?

I'm sure that this doesn't really need explaining to you but that would be the instinct to defend or to attack. You can train a dog all you like and 99.99999% of the time they'll do as trained but no dog could be considered 100% safe.

borderlinemeath

shamrock55 wrote: »

Do you mind if I ask what bad experience did you have with the cocker

Not just the one cocker spaniel unfortunately. I've met quite a few that get aggressive when nervous. And also met some that resource guard - food in particular, mostly golden, but one black one that people guards.

alta stare

twowheelsonly wrote: »

I'm sure that this doesn't really need explaining to you but that would be the instinct to defend or to attack. You can train a dog all you like and 99.99999% of the time they'll do as trained but no dog could be considered 100% safe.

Nor can many humans.

Hellrazer

The restricted breed list is a load of balls to be honest.
The people that devised it or try to implement it haven't a clue and pulled the breeds on it out of their arses.

Heres a post I made a good few years back about an issue with the restricted breeds list and a social worker who hadn't a clue.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=61018928&postcount=1

I never did get my rottie though

I went one bigger and got a Newfie. Im just glad that social woker left us and moved on before seeing the newfie!!!

Oh yeah and for what its worth the only dog that ever bit me in any type of aggressive way was a Westie...that was a snappy little ****er. You don't see them on this list.

alta stare

shakencat wrote: »

I must be a terrible parent.

I own a lab and a rottweiler.

And we have an 8month old baby.


I have zero bad words to say about either dog, would never leave her alone with them (or any dog) but she toddles along crawling and they don't bat an eye.



They are both well trained, fed and walked every day.

Myself and my other half have often said we'll gladly continue getting Rottweilers - our lads temperament is amazing.. Just a pity about their bad name.


Alot of people stop us on walks and say 'he is handsome, what is he?' While hand is out petting him.

We say rottweiler, some jump in fright when they hear the breed, plenty wouldn't know a rottweiler from a black lab.

Id thank this post a million times if i could. 100% spot on.

bilbot79

borderlinemeath wrote: »

A Jack Russell killed a 4 day old baby in the UK a few years ago. Complacency around size, ability and the fact that certain breeds is on an arbitrary list is what is dangerous.

That is seriously tragic and the mortality element has a lot to do with the age of the child aswell. The JRT could be reasonably dangerous to a 2 year old but highly unlikely to be able to fracture it's skull.

Poor baby

Heat_Wave

What are people's thoughts on Alsatians? There is one in our estate, and his owner walks him off the lead. He went for a neighbour before and they complained, yet the owner continues to walk him off the lead. I saw him this evening and had to turn home as I was frozen with fear when I saw him. It really angers me that I cannot walk in my own estate

shamrock55

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Not just the one cocker spaniel unfortunately. I've met quite a few that get aggressive when nervous. And also met some that resource guard - food in particular, mostly golden, but one black one that people guards.

I can sort of relate to that, we have a golden cocker and he's great for the most part in fairness but he can be a cranky fecker in certain situations, plus he's the biggest pain in the arse on a lead if he sees another dog he goes absolutely ape which is so embarrassing and nothing you can do will stop him, I actually have to pick him up till the other dog is out of sight, he's gone for German Shepard and everything, once he went for 2 big huskies while all 3 were on their leads one huskie pinned him to the ground by the neck, I actually thought that might calm him down but alas I was wrong, 90% of the time he's a sweetheart though lol!!

uck51js9zml2yt

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Not just the one cocker spaniel unfortunately. I've met quite a few that get aggressive when nervous. And also met some that resource guard - food in particular, mostly golden, but one black one that people guards.

Had one that we took in on a rehoming. Agressive when nervous. Have 2 young kids and just couldn't chance it. On the advice of a friend whose a vet we gave him up again for rehoming which she sorted very quickly thankfully.

Beautiful dog but scared of his shadow. Just wish we knew before I got him.

alta stare

Heat_Wave wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on Alsatians? There is one in our estate, and his owner walks him off the lead. He went for a neighbour before and they complained, yet the owner continues to walk him off the lead. I saw him this evening and had to turn home as I was frozen with fear when I saw him. It really angers me that I cannot walk in my own estate

Well if the dog is going for people then the owner needs to be dealt with. Its those kind of people who give dogs like that a bad name.

shamrock55

I've only been really bitten once and that was in the cheek when young by my own pet lab

emo72

Heat_Wave wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on Alsatians? There is one in our estate, and his owner walks him off the lead. He went for a neighbour before and they complained, yet the owner continues to walk him off the lead. I saw him this evening and had to turn home as I was frozen with fear when I saw him. It really angers me that I cannot walk in my own estate

Alsatian or German shepherd? Same dog different name. It's a shepherd dog used to herd sheep. Like an English dog. Beautiful dogs, all of them. The problem was the English kennel club wouldn't call them German shepherd dogs back around the time of the great war. So called them Alsations derived from Alsace which translated into wolf dog. Hence their bad name, they are not related to wolves, but the name sticks.

VeVeX

VonVix wrote: »

Can you explain a little about this "instinct" you speak of that can make dogs dangerous? Instinct to do what, exactly?

Particular dog breeds have a propensity for certain traits. Call it what you want.

"The large, independent-thinking Akita is hardwired for protecting those they love. They must be well socialized from birth with people and other dogs."

or

"These are true-blue loyal companions, but the old fighting instinct still lurks within—making it vital that Staffie pups be socialized with other dogs to learn good canine manners."

https://www.akc.org/

The whole "no such thing as a bad dog just a bad owner" malarkey is complete horse manure. Some breeds are more likely to attack because its been bred into them for 100's of years. Long before youtube made experts out of dog owners. Characteristics of a breed cannot be completely overridden by training. Try to train a dog not to lick his balls, its almost impossible, its a hardwired instinct.

Hellrazer

VeVeX wrote: »

The whole "no such thing as a bad dog just a bad owner" malarkey is complete horse manure. Some breeds are more likely to attack because its been bred into them for 100's of years. Long before youtube made experts out of dog owners. Characteristics of a breed cannot be completely overridden by training. Try to train a dog not to lick his balls, its almost impossible, its a hardwired instinct.

I do think the way a dog is raised has a lot to do with whether its going to bring out that so called inherent instinct for aggression.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/09/13/americas-most-dangerous-dog-breeds-infographic/#4de8cd2962f8

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-multi-year-fatality-report-2005-2017.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI87q95-3c3wIVjpTtCh3AIAGzEAAYASAAEgJgNfD_BwE#table2


The above study showed that Pit bulls were responsible for the most fatal attacks overs a 13 year period.

Why?Its not that the dog has an inherent instinct to kill someone more so the assholes that keep pit bulls in a lot of these attacks are raising these dogs as guard dogs or trying to be the hard men and traing the dogs to be aggressive. etc.

Most pit bulls I have met in my life are as gentle as any other dogs Ive come across.
You can see from the statistics that the dogs that carried out the most attacks are guard breeds.
However Labs,Boxers and Golden retrievers are also responsible for deaths.

66% of the deaths were kids and if you read through this thread you`ll see that responsible owners would never leave their kids alone with ANY dog regardless of the breed.

From 2005 to 2017, family dogs inflicted 54% (232) of all fatal attacks. 64% (149) were perpetrated by pit bulls, up from an earlier period of 56% (2005 to 2010). Of the 284 fatal pit bull attacks, 52% (149) involved killing a family or household member.
19% (82) of attacks resulting in death involved a dog or person new to a household (0-2 month period). Children <2 years old accounted for 55% (45) of these deaths. Family dogs carried out 87% (39) of the deadly attacks in the <2 years old subset.
16% (68) of all dog bite fatalities involved a babysitter, grandparent or relative watching a child, or the dog being "watched" by a person other than its owner when the canine inflicted a deadly attack. Pit bulls carried out 74% (50) of these attacks.
27% (116) of all dog bite fatality victims were either visiting or living temporarily with the dog's owner when the fatal attack occurred. Pit bulls inflicted 73% (85) of these deaths. Children ≤9 years old comprised 66% (76) of these fatality victims.
In the 13-year data set, 9% (38) of fatalities involved chained dogs, down from an earlier 6-year period (2005 to 2010) of 14%, and down from the CDC study period (1979 to 1998) when "restrained dogs" killed 17% of all dog bite fatality victims.

Choc Chip

Hellrazer wrote: »

Why?Its not that the dog has an inherent instinct to kill someone more so the assholes that keep pit bulls in a lot of these attacks are raising these dogs as guard dogs or trying to be the hard men and traing the dogs to be aggressive. etc.

I always wonder how many of the dogs in the bite stats are ACTUALLY pit bulls. The vast majority of the general public couldn't tell a pit bull from a lurcher, never mind something similar like a staffie.



I had a friend tell me about the neighbours' pit bulls barking at him when he went for a walk down our lane... they're a pair of chocolate labs.


Anyway, OP: I love rotties. The few I've met have been loveable clowns. I like the person above (I'm too tired and can't bring myself to scroll back) who said that he'd likely be sound as a bog carrot. Couldn't have said it better. Can you pop round and meet him - see if that makes you feel better?

bilbot79

Choc Chip wrote: »

Anyway, OP: I love rotties. The few I've met have been loveable clowns. I like the person above (I'm too tired and can't bring myself to scroll back) who said that he'd likely be sound as a bog carrot. Couldn't have said it better. Can you pop round and meet him - see if that makes you feel better?

I guess so. The whole thing just sits so badly with me. Whether the rep is deserved or not I don't know why anyone would even bother to take the risk.

Ave Sodalis

I'm not sure if it's a "bad dog" vs "good dog" or a "bad owner" vs "good owner", so much as right owner or wrong owner. Of course, you still get bad owners, but lets take one of the dog breeds I mentioned in my earlier post. A Mal is typically a very intelligent, very energetic, very athletic dog. Personally, I would not own one because I know for a fact that I am not a talented enough dog handler to own one. Majority of people are not talented enough to own one. They are not suited to being pet dogs. Yet, there are people who are talented enough to own happy, well adjusted Mals.



Or take a more common example: Collies. Another high energy, high intelligence dog. When they have a job, or when they have a way to release some of their energy, they're a pretty reasonable dog. They're still quite reactive and the right owner would never put them in a position where they could act upon that reactiveness. However, when they don't get an outlet for their energy, or enough of an outlet for their energy, I've seen them turn into snarly, snappy, over-protective messes. It doesn't make them bad dogs, nor does it make owners who don't have the means to get rid of their energy bad owners... they're just wrong for each other. I wouldn't consider collies to be particularly good pet dogs anyway. It doesn't help that many collies are a result of back-yard breeding and temperament testing doesn't exist for BYB.



Another common example are Sib Huskies. They're often put into pounds and rescues because they're another example of a dog that many people can't handle. They're a working dog. They're bred to run for hours. If they can't do that, they start chewing up the house from boredom. They're not meant to be sitting still for most of the day. They're not designed for the sofa, and not being able to do what they are designed to do has consequences.





TL;DR- there are certain dogs with a predisposition to certain traits. These traits are not necessarily negative in the right hands, as there is usually a reason for them traits. Anatolians are livestock guardians and are not welcoming of strangers, and are generally dog aggressive because it makes them good guardians. Just not good pets. Yes, there are bad owners, and yes, there are dogs, who for one reason or another, are bad dogs. However, I don't think it's fair to say all bad dogs are a result of bad owners, or all dogs of a certain breed are bad.

Choc Chip

bilbot79 wrote: »

I guess so. The whole thing just sits so badly with me. Whether the rep is deserved or not I don't know why anyone would even bother to take the risk.

I have a German Shepherd which is also on the restricted breeds list. I can tell you why I have a dog on the RB list if that helps?



I did a lot of research into the type of dog I wanted - I wanted one that was trainable, could come out running with me, was big enough to be out and about on the farm for the day, and that might want to do some kind of dog sport. I also like that she's very family-orientated. She does need a job to do (and I'm not saying I'd recommend one to someone who wasn't interested in training) but she ticked all my boxes and I can't imagine having any other dog.



Could you could ask your family member why they got a rottie? People love talking about their dog (see above;)), and I'm sure they thought about it and had reasons to pick a rottweiler.



The RB list is a purely arbitrary list of the more common, scarier looking dogs - don't let it put you off getting some cuddles from the new pup.

demanufactured

No they are not.
Any breed of dog can be "dangerous "

It's the owners you need to look out for.

Sheepdish1

bilbot79 wrote: »

Choc Chip wrote: »

Anyway, OP: I love rotties. The few I've met have been loveable clowns. I like the person above (I'm too tired and can't bring myself to scroll back) who said that he'd likely be sound as a bog carrot. Couldn't have said it better. Can you pop round and meet him - see if that makes you feel better?

I guess so. The whole thing just sits so badly with me. Whether the rep is deserved or not I don't know why anyone would even bother to take the risk.

Are there other reasons that are making you nervous about your family member getting the puppy apart from the breed? Do you think they will be responsible with the dog?