Who s behind the Gardai road checks?

Mrs OBumble

Ahh, so that's what they've done with all the guards from Galway ... lent 'em to Mayo!

El_Bee

I mean, if they didn't have these the Gardai would have very little to do, very little crime and anti-social behaviour these days, the country is fairly peaceful.

GAA Beo

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I dont think my locality (rural Mayo) is any different but for whatever reason in the last few months the amount of Garda checkpoints etc has been ramped up to an incredible degree, they are everywhere at all hours, breathalyzers, tax checks, speeding etc. I mean it makes zero sense for a force that was always complaining and maybe rightly so about being under resourced. obv a decison has been taken at a high level and im wondering by whom and for what reason?

It's similar where I am, I recently joined a facebook group where people post up the checkpoints in our county, it has 12,000 members. Every single checkpoint is posted to warn people. It has seriously ramped up there are checkpoints literally everywhere.

The anger at Gardai and Shane Ross is also quite something. I wonder do they realise how angry they are making people in rural areas. They are never around to police burglaries or assaults but just harass motorists and be tax collectors for Fine Gael.

Discodog

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, so that's what they've done with all the guards from Galway ... lent 'em to Mayo!

Galway has been full of checkpoints. Feel free to burgle, rob etc as you know where the Guards are & it will take them hours to arrive.

Checkpoints are PR.

Sycamore Tree

pleas advice wrote: »

Theres a new sheriff in town, he's gonna shake things up, theres been a huge decrease in breathalyzer numbers, people are slacking off, well not any more...

The Gardai falsified 1,500,000 breath tests in order to doss in their stations. Unpunished of course, Garda corruption is beyond punishment. How will they ever improve that number of tests in the field?

GAA Beo

Discodog wrote: »

Galway has been full of checkpoints. Feel free to burgle, rob etc as you know where the Guards are & it will take them hours to arrive.

Checkpoints are PR.

Exactly they look good on their twitter page and collect revenue for the state but violent crime like burglary and assault, they couldn't give less of a toss. Pure and utter money racket and government spin.

Del2005

GAA Beo wrote: »

It's similar where I am, I recently joined a facebook group where people post up the checkpoints in our county, it has 12,000 members. Every single checkpoint is posted to warn people. It has seriously ramped up there are checkpoints literally everywhere.

The anger at Gardai and Shane Ross is also quite something. I wonder do they realise how angry they are making people in rural areas. They are never around to police burglaries or assaults but just harass motorists and be tax collectors for Fine Gael.

Checkpoints are a very good way to screen vehicles and catch criminals in transit,because people who break the law tend to break a lot of laws. So a checkpoint isn't just checking for tax they are also to track vehicles or people. I've been through numerous checkpoints where they barely glance at my car but spend ages dealing with vans or certain colour of car. So by posting that the Gardai are doing a checkpoint outside one town it tells all the criminals that the next town over is open for business.

But no its the Gardai's fault that criminals target isolated locations where even if we had thousands more Gardai patrolling they would still be able to attack isolated areas because people are posting on social media where it'd save to rob, or DUI.

Potential-Monke

Gardaí are enforcing road traffic legislation - The bastards!
Gardaí are not enforcing road traffic legislation - The bastards!
The Gardaí weren't around at a very specific time and place to catch travelling* criminals - The bastards!
The Gardaí had to prevent a breach of the peace at 'peaceful' protests, so they're working for [insert private company here] - The bastards!
A very small percentage of Gardaí are corrupt so they must all be corrupt - The bastards!
Only Gardaí of Inspector rank can cancel penalty point tickets - they're all corrupt - The bastards!

Etc... :rolleyes:

*I don't mean travellers, they get separate threads

Coillte_Bhoy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

The Gardai maybe??

Why do people have such a problem with them doing their job? No it’s not catching master criminals but it’s still a vital part of what they do nonetheless.

Who has?

Del2005

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Who has?

The OP for one.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Who has?

Yourself.

Sycamore Tree

Potential-Monke wrote: »

A very small percentage of Gardaí are corrupt so they must all be corrupt - The bastards!
Only Gardaí of Inspector rank can cancel penalty point tickets - they're all corrupt - The bastards!

Hmmm...ah yes, just a few bad eggs like the Roman church.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/big-questions-go-unanswered-in-garda-penalty-points-scandal-1.3312793

In a force that reached 14,000 members at one point, 442 gardaí cancelled penalty points. (442 of Inspector rank or above you said)

At the end of repeated investigations and nine reports into the debacle, no gardaí will face discipline.

Even that small number who were most prolific at cancelling points – in one case 700 times across 17 counties – will face no consequences.

The reason? Disciplining so many Garda members would simply cost too much and take too long. And the records on which further investigations of individual gardaí would be based were poorly kept.

A similar logic was outlined by Deputy Commissioner Dónall Ó Cualáin last week when he informed the Policing Authority that no gardaí would face sanction over the inflation of almost 2,000,000 alcohol breath tests.

..................

I stated earlier that 1,500,000 alcohol breath tests were faked. I was wrong. It seems another 400,000 were uncovered since then. I think we are only peeling the onion on Garda corruption.

The faked breath tests were performed in stations in every single Garda division in Ireland.

RobbieMD

GAA Beo wrote: »

Exactly they look good on their twitter page and collect revenue for the state but violent crime like burglary and assault, they couldn't give less of a toss. Pure and utter money racket and government spin.

Sure don’t the Gardai know the burglars walk miles to do their rural burglaries. Burglars would hardly use cars now would they?

Every idiot who posts up checkpoint locations is a moron.

RobbieMD

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Hmmm...ah yes, just a few bad eggs like the Roman church.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/big-questions-go-unanswered-in-garda-penalty-points-scandal-1.3312793

In a force that reached 14,000 members at one point, 442 gardaí cancelled penalty points. (442 of Inspector rank or above you said)

At the end of repeated investigations and nine reports into the debacle, no gardaí will face discipline.

Even that small number who were most prolific at cancelling points – in one case 700 times across 17 counties – will face no consequences.

The reason? Disciplining so many Garda members would simply cost too much and take too long. And the records on which further investigations of individual gardaí would be based were poorly kept.

A similar logic was outlined by Deputy Commissioner Dónall Ó Cualáin last week when he informed the Policing Authority that no gardaí would face sanction over the inflation of almost 2,000,000 alcohol breath tests.

..................

I stated earlier that 1,500,000 alcohol breath tests were faked. I was wrong. It seems another 400,000 were uncovered since then. I think we are only peeling the onion on Garda corruption.

The faked breath tests were performed in stations in every single Garda division in Ireland.

442 Gardai who cancelled penalty point notices had to have been at least of Inspector rank or above. No member of Garda rank could cancel a notice.

Sycamore Tree

RobbieMD wrote: »

442 Gardai who cancelled penalty point notices had to have been at least of Inspector rank or above. No member of Garda rank could cancel a notice.

Yeah I said that in my post. What's your point?

RobbieMD

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Yeah I said that in my post. What's your point?

442 out of 14,000 is roughly 3%. I wouldn’t consider 3% a high percentage.

Sycamore Tree

RobbieMD wrote: »

442 out of 14,000 is roughly 3%. I wouldn’t consider 3% a high percentage.

What % of the entire Garda force is Inspector rank or above?

Let's exclude All the regular Gardaí and Sergeants and make an assumption that the senior Gardaí (Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner, Assistant Commissioner, Chief Superintendent, Superintendent, Inspector) numbers are 4000 (seems an awful lot still). That's 11%.

And I see you have zero comment on the 2,000,000 alcohol breath tests that were faked in every Garda division in Ireland.
Or that they went completely unpunished? What message does that send?

.

Captain Obvious

RobbieMD wrote: »

442 Gardai who cancelled penalty point notices had to have been at least of Inspector rank or above. No member of Garda rank could cancel a notice.

It's more likely the 442 refers to Gardaí who issued the tickets as opposed to the people who actually cancelled them because there aren't even that many inspectors and superintendents in the country. A more accurate sentence might be "tickets issued by 442 different Gardaí were cancelled". Most were probably done without the knowledge of the issuing Garda too.

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

What % of the entire Garda force is Inspector rank or above?

About 2%

RobbieMD

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

What % of the entire Garda force is Inspector rank or above?

God I don’t know. It’s probably on their website.
I pointed out that it’s roughly 3% as you bolded Potential-Monke’s statement of a “very small percentage” I was just pointing out that he was correct. It is indeed a small percentage

blanch152

GAA Beo wrote: »

It's similar where I am, I recently joined a facebook group where people post up the checkpoints in our county, it has 12,000 members. Every single checkpoint is posted to warn people. It has seriously ramped up there are checkpoints literally everywhere.

The anger at Gardai and Shane Ross is also quite something. I wonder do they realise how angry they are making people in rural areas. They are never around to police burglaries or assaults but just harass motorists and be tax collectors for Fine Gael.

What an incredibly stupid arrangement that facebook group is.

Every criminal in the country must love it. When they hear that there is a major checkpoint in one town, they can go to another town and work away. The same facebook group probably has people complaining about the burglaries they helped facilitate.

RobbieMD

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's more likely the 442 refers to Gardaí who issued the tickets as opposed to the people who actually cancelled them because there aren't even that many inspectors and superintendents in the country. A more accurate sentence might be "tickets issued by 442 different Gardaí were cancelled". Most were probably done without the knowledge of the issuing Garda too.



About 2%

Any idea of the timeframe involved in the penalty point review? I was thinking that it probably would also include retired members of officer rank who cancelled FCPNs

RobbieMD

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

What % of the entire Garda force is Inspector rank or above?

Let's exclude All the regular Gardaí and Sergeants and make an assumption that the senior Gardaí (Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner, Assistant Commissioner, Chief Superintendent, Superintendent, Inspector) numbers are 4000 (seems an awful lot still). That's 11%.

And I see you have zero comment on the 2,000,000 alcohol breath tests that were faked in every Garda division in Ireland.
Or that they went completely unpunished? What message does that send?

.

There couldn’t be 4000 surely. I’d assume it would be far less than that.

Sycamore Tree

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's more likely the 442 refers to Gardaí who issued the tickets as opposed to the people who actually cancelled them because there aren't even that many inspectors and superintendents in the country. A more accurate sentence might be "tickets issued by 442 different Gardaí were cancelled". Most were probably done without the knowledge of the issuing Garda too.


About 2%

No my understanding is that 442 actually cancelled penalty points.

It was also revealed that a total of 442 Gardaí were authorised to cancel FCNs in the four-year period and that the vast majority (72%) of all cancelled FCNs were simply recorded as ‘cancelled’, giving insufficient rationale for cancellation to allow GSOC ascertain whether or not they were cancelled in line with proper procedure.

You sure that only 2% of the force are of rank Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner, Assistant Commissioner, Chief Superintendent, Superintendent or Inspector?

That's just 280 people.

In total, GSOC received data relating to the issuing of 1.6 million Fixed Charge Notices (FCNs) and 74,373 cancellations of FCNs in the four years from 2009 to 2012 (inclusive).

The Ombudsman Commission has decided not to proceed to another phase of an investigation, however, due to the likely high cost of a more expansive and detailed investigation and the extensive reform of the Fixed Charge Penalty System in recent years.

RobbieMD

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

No my understanding is that 442 actually cancelled penalty points.



You sure that only 2% of the force are of rank Commissioner, Deputy Commissioner, Assistant Commissioner, Chief Superintendent, Superintendent or Inspector?

That's just 280 people.

Your maths on previous post seem way out. If 4000 accounts for 11% then we have a police force of over 36,000. We have slightly more than a third of that.

Spook_ie

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Hmmm...ah yes, just a few bad eggs like the Roman church.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/big-questions-go-unanswered-in-garda-penalty-points-scandal-1.3312793

In a force that reached 14,000 members at one point, 442 gardaí cancelled penalty points. (442 of Inspector rank or above you said)

At the end of repeated investigations and nine reports into the debacle, no gardaí will face discipline.

Even that small number who were most prolific at cancelling points – in one case 700 times across 17 counties – will face no consequences.

The reason? Disciplining so many Garda members would simply cost too much and take too long. And the records on which further investigations of individual gardaí would be based were poorly kept.

A similar logic was outlined by Deputy Commissioner Dónall Ó Cualáin last week when he informed the Policing Authority that no gardaí would face sanction over the inflation of almost 2,000,000 alcohol breath tests.

..................

I stated earlier that 1,500,000 alcohol breath tests were faked. I was wrong. It seems another 400,000 were uncovered since then. I think we are only peeling the onion on Garda corruption.

The faked breath tests were performed in stations in every single Garda division in Ireland.

Assume that 50% or whatever arbitrary % you'd think would fit were disciplined and reduced in rank or whatever, how exactly would the GS perform with any effectiveness at all?

As time goes on with a top dog shaking the tree from above the numbers will reduce by natural forces, more power to Drew Harris and hopefully sticking it to a couple of higher Gardai will filter down the ranks that bending the rules is a no no.

Lantus

Fella in the local paper 5th time in caught and in court and on this occasion 2nd time driving with no insurance. 70euro fine and no ban...

Why are we bothering...

Sycamore Tree

RobbieMD wrote: »

Your maths on previous post seem way out. If 4000 accounts for 11% then we have a police force of over 36,000. We have slightly more than a third of that.

No you misunderstood. Deliberately methinks. I posted above that the force was 14,000 strong at the time.

In the 4 years of FCN cancellations, 442 Gardaí were found to have cancelled them.

The force at the time has 14,000 people. I took 4000 as a guesstimate of the number who were eligible to cancel FCNs (Inspector or above)

442/4000 = 11%. The issue is whether 4000 is close to the actual number of Gardaí of rank Inspector or above. It's probably a lot more like 1000 which makes the figure even more shocking (44.2%)

I am wondering whether you are just trying to throw a smokescreen on this. Any comment on the 2,000,000 fake breath tests?

Sycamore Tree

RobbieMD wrote: »

There couldn’t be 4000 surely. I’d assume it would be far less than that.

Go ahead then sunshine, give me your figure.

A quick scan of your other posts leads me to believe you are a member of the Gardaí. Can you confirm?

Sycamore Tree

Full GSOC report here;

https://www.gardaombudsman.ie/news-room/archive/gsoc-investigation-fixed-charge-notice-cancellations-2009-2014/

RobbieMD

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

No you misunderstood. Deliberately methinks. I posted above that the force was 14,000 strong at the time.

In the 4 years of FCN cancellations, 442 Gardaí were found to have cancelled them.

The force at the time has 14,000 people. I took 4000 as a guesstimate of the number who were eligible to cancel FCNs (Inspector or above)

442/4000 = 11%. The issue is whether 4000 is close to the actual number of Gardaí of rank Inspector or above. It's probably a lot more like 1000 which makes the figure even more shocking (44.2%)

I am wondering whether you are just trying to throw a smokescreen on this. Any comment on the 2,000,000 fake breath tests?

That’s what I couldn’t understand. It’s not 4000 eligible to cancel fcpns. I had a quick look and it looks like there’s about 500 who hold the rank of inspector and above.

Comment on fake breath tests? Yeah they shouldn’t have happened.